Pros and Cons of Digital PWM?

I'm surprised to see that Asus hasn't made the switch to Digital PWMs yet, even with their enthusiast mobos. And yet DFI and Abit who are more enthusiast oriented made the switch long ago for their high end products.

Why? I'm pretty sure DFI wouldn't have switched unless there is a net benefit to overclocking and yet I can't seem to find any comparison threads.

From what I remember, the pros are:

-More efficient power conversion = less heat pumped into the case, less stress on the PSU and your electricity bill
-Faster response times? So when CPU load changes rapidly, spikes in power demand are met = more stable overclocks

The cons I've read are:

-Massive Vdroop? I've done some research in the P35 Lanparty thread and it seems like there is a bios bug of some sorts where the vdroop option had it's effects reversed (turning it on = off and vice versa) so is this really an issue? :confused:
-The controller controller chip gets REALLY hot but I'm pretty sure it's designed to operate upto 105C... is this an issue? :confused:

Vdroop on DFI P35 is non existent and the minute amount there is is so insignificant its stupid.:up:

isnt ip35 analog pwm? iam not all up on the diffrences between the two. i would assume digital is the way to go.

glad your likein that DFI brother. dfi are some of the best boards still imo. I used to have a nforce 2 DFI and asus a7dlx which still runs 5 years later.

the dfi was better. I hope they get an x38 out at launch...

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Originally Posted by HKPolice

-Massive Vdroop? I've done some research in the P35 Lanparty thread and it seems like there is a bios bug of some sorts where the vdroop option had it's effects reversed (turning it on = off and vice versa) so is this really an issue?

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If digital PWM causes massive vdroop, I would guess that is why everyone hasn't moved over. The big plus to Asus's top of the line boards is there is no vdrop.

But like already mention, DFI's top of the line board has no vdrop.

Where are you getting your sources for your pros and cons?

--pak

My Asus Commando with digital PWM has more vdroop the higher the voltage is set.

i think no one uses it because it sounds good on paper but looses its appeal during the implimentation.

DFI started it and keeps using it, maybe beause they have a contract with the mfg of the pieces?

frankly with the massive heat from digital pwm i wouldnt use it either.

droop is something that can be controlled with some fo the cheapest parts on a motherboard but mobo makers just continue, after years of doing it, to keep right on doing it.

and asus is king of vdroop. i dont think there is another company out there who is more well known for their horrible vdroop than asus.

and the fix is just as cheap as the cause. 1 single resistor placed in the right spot is all thats needed, but they just dont do it.

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Originally Posted by Lestat

i think no one uses it because it sounds good on paper but looses its appeal during the implimentation.

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Good on paper and bad on implimentation sounds like something that just needs a few bugs worked out.

--pak

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Originally Posted by cabbspapp

My Asus Commando with digital PWM has more vdroop the higher the voltage is set.

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Commando not have dig. pwm.

I tested only Quad GT with dig. pwm and it's ok with high vcore ( 1.85V+ ) no huge vdroop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pak

Good on paper and bad on implimentation sounds like something that just needs a few bugs worked out.

--pak

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well dont forget pak thats just 100% speculation.

given the way most mobo makers insist that they try to keep prices low, which means they use CHEAP parts i would believe no one uses it because digital pwm is expensive.

one con is if the mobo manufacture hasn't provided enough vcore you can't mod it for higher vcore

that's what i read here somewhere anyways

Well multiply a 1/3 of cent by 30 million and that their line of thinking!

Abit IP35 Pro was 4 phase Analog PWM and it had horrible Vdroop and ran much hotter to this digital PWM Abit 4phase Analog PWM = 42c idle 70c & Full Prime Load .........D.F.I 37c Idle 51C Full Prime load

Both with Q6600 G0 Abit @ 3.2ghz .......D.F.I @ 3500MHZ :eek:

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Originally Posted by Brother Esau

Well multiply a 1/3 of cent by 30 million and that their line of thinking!

Abit IP35 Pro was 4 phase Analog PWM and it had horrible Vdroop and ran much hotter to this digital PWM Abit 4phase Analog PWM = 42c idle 70c & Full Prime Load .........D.F.I 37c Idle 51C Full Prime load

Both with Q6600 G0 Abit @ 3.2ghz .......D.F.I @ 3500MHZ :eek:

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no one ever said its bad aside form the heat and they do get hot.

analog pwm gets hot too but most mobo's dont have a heat removal system on them so they just sit there and cook in their own heat.

most people also dont use a fan on their PWM are which also needs to be done. heatsink or not.
a simple low rpm 60,70, or 80mm fan just blowing air across it helps out alot.

Hey, Lestat whats up?:toast:

Don't get me wrong the Abit IP35 Pro is a Stellar Board and I was regretful when a USB port burned out with the all of the 4 they provide....lol...and I had no choice but to order another board just for that one port:p: ...LOL...I know thats gay but I really needed all four to function for what I have!
Outside of that I never had a moments issue with the board at all:up:

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Originally Posted by strange|ife

isnt ip35 analog pwm?

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it is but the IX38 series is going to the next generation of digital PWM.
The earlier type used on IN9 32X, AB9 QuadGT runs very hot (although it is specified to).

For now I'm sticking with Analog. Doesn't get _as_ hot and a good mobo won't droop. Digital has no advantage at this point in time IMO. I acutally try to stay AWAY from Digital. Every implementation I've seen of it, doesn't work real well.

I've read that analog is generally better unless you've got more phases with digital. IIRC, you'd need at least 8 phase digital for current motherboards to be good. Less can obviously get by, but it's not preferred.

Like someone already mentioned the v-drop gets larger if i bump up more volt.
Usually it is in 0.02 range but it can be as high as 0.06 over 1.6v. I think it was that high, remember seeing 1.54/1.55 in uguru at 1.6. i can get into win at 3.9 but a "no go" for anyhing more than superpi.
hope abit x38 will be better.

1 . VDroop not Vdrop , Vdoop is a necessary power design spec in order to prevent voltage overshoot too much when the processor switching from heavy load to light load ... It's not a Bug or Poor Design caused Vdroop ...

2 . The volterra chip we used is so called Digital VRM technology , including a controller chip communicate digitally with some salve chip which has MOS integrated in it ... Because of this architecture , the whole VRM can operate at much higher frequency , the higher frequency the VRM can respond , the less the capacitor the VRM need for supply the surge current ...

3 . Digital VRM can supply more current when there is restricted area we can put the power circuit on the board ... Most of the ATI/nVidia high end display card use Digital VRM solution because there is not too much space in the display card , but the GPU needs lots of power ....

4 . The Slave chip with MOS integrated in it can handle 35~38A continuously per chip and it has 155 degree celsius temperature self protection , it will enter into protect mode when the current or temp limit is over .... Each chip is individual , that means if there is single chip over temp or current limit for a short time , it will protect itself and other chip will continue to work ...

5 . The cost of using digital VRM is much much higher compare to traditional VRM ...

6 . In light load , digital VRM generally has better power efficiency than traditional VRM ... In heavy load , digital VRM and traditional VRM power efficiency is almost the same ...

7 . Digital VRM won't generate much heat than traditional VRM , what makes you feel that is most of the circuit was put in a very small area ... If we put the Digital VRM in the same area with the same heat sink size as traditional VRM , it's temp will be close to traditional VRM ...

8 . In my personal opinion , with proper design in heat dissipation , the only cons is the price too high ... The other problem is the supply is not too good compare to traditional VRM , maybe this is why 1st tier player can not use it , they can not use a design which has supply problem ...

So, Oskar, what happened with the iCFX3200 digital VRM? 0.08v~0.1v vdroop with low volts with dual cores @1,35v, let alone quads and high volts. Man, with that droop, it´s impossible to get any CPU stable, so I sold the board quickly. Since then, I really hate them.

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

So, Oskar, what happened with the iCFX3200 digital VRM? 0.08v~0.1v vdroop with low volts with dual cores @1,35v, let alone quads and high volts. Man, with that droop, it´s impossible to get any CPU stable, so I sold the board quickly. Since then, I really hate them.

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I don't know how you measure 0.08V ~ 0.1 Vdroop , but even so , it's not way tooooo big to cause system unstable ...

Check this to have a good understanding about Vdroop ... http://www.xcpus.com/forums/intel/14...epository.html

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Originally Posted by OSKAR_WU

4 . The Slave chip with MOS integrated in it can handle 35~38A continuously per chip and it has 155 degree celsius temperature self protection , it will enter into protect mode when the current or temp limit is over .... Each chip is individual , that means if there is single chip over temp or current limit for a short time , it will protect itself and other chip will continue to work ...

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Hi Oskar... why am I and so many other DFI 680i LT owners having troubles with boards shutting off under load (by load I mean Prime95 Small FFT's)? I have a water cooler on my slave chips that is keeping my NB and SB at 40-deg. in the same loop so the power chips can't be much higher than that. What's the real story with the shutdowns?

As a side question, is it not possible to design a board with an adjustable Vdroop so that enthusiasts can risk dialing it out if they choose. I don't see this as any more dangerous than any other BIOS setting put into the hands of the ill-informed.

When the cpu load changes , no matter how fast the VRM can respond , there is always a very short period you need to use the Choke and Capacitor to maintain the voltage stable ... If we can design unlimited capacitor on the board , we can remove the droop design when the capacitor can handle all these transient state , but that's not possible ...

Thanks, back in my car audio days, we use to put a 1 Farad cap or more on the 12V line to the amps to help deal with transient power... would more capacitance on the 12V Rail that serves the CPU ATX connector be helpful in the PSU rather than on the board?

Any thoughts on my other question regarding why the DFI 680i LT may be shutting down under heavy load with a quad-core?

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Originally Posted by virtualrain

Hi Oskar... why am I and so many other DFI 680i LT owners having troubles with boards shutting off under load (by load I mean Prime95 Small FFT's)? I have a water cooler on my slave chips that is keeping my NB and SB at 40-deg. in the same loop so the power chips can't be much higher than that. What's the real story with the shutdowns?

As a side question, is it not possible to design a board with an adjustable Vdroop so that enthusiasts can risk dialing it out if they choose. I don't see this as any more dangerous than any other BIOS setting put into the hands of the ill-informed.

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First , with proper cooling and good contact and good TIM between the slave chip and heat sink , you should not encounter shutdown ... From what you have said , in your situation , it's the TIM you used on the slave chip and heatsink can not conduct the heat quick enough , the TIM we used in slave chip and heatsink is shinetsu X23-7783D which is the best TIM we can found except liquid metal ... You can trying using AS5(or any other TIM which is not electrically conductive) if you already remove all of them ...

Shutting down is caused by a chain reaction start form 1 slave chip , if all the slave chip is close to temperature limit , when one slave chip protect in temp , all the load will be shared by all the other slave chip ... This will easily caused other slave chip goes into temp protect , once all the slave chip shutdown one by one , vcore gones ... And the motherboard will shutdown because of Vcore gone , this is a protection to prevent cpu damaged ...

For future digital VRM design , we will use larger heatsink , also we will add circuit to control if Vdroop will be used or not ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OSKAR_WU

I don't know how you measure 0.08V ~ 0.1 Vdroop , but even so , it's not way tooooo big to cause system unstable ...

Check this to have a good understanding about Vdroop ... http://www.xcpus.com/forums/intel/14...epository.html

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Yeah, I know how Vdroop works, and I really don´t want it. Stable voltage is best for us XS members. Asus, DFI, Gigabyte... must implement an option in the BIOS to let us rock stable voltage under load, or a max of 0.01v~0.02v, like CPU Voltage Damper does in lastest Asus boards.

I measured it with the Smartguardian utility, didn´t know how to read it with a multimeter. Anyway, SM confirms what I saw in my tests: with the same CPU, Asus and my current Intel board behaviour is the same. Both measured with a well calibrated multimeter, after vdroop it needs 1,19v to a stable 3.3Ghz, a little 24/7 OC. With the iCFX3200, 1.35v in BIOS resulted in a 1,28v idle (no problems here, typical Vdrop), but at load, it dropped to about 1,20v. At that voltage it should be stable like it was on Asus and Intel, but it wasn´t, 1,25v or 1,30v under load didn´t fix it. Even at that low OC, that huge voltage fluctuations kill the stability. I played with the iCFX for about a month, trying to understand what I was doing wrong, but honestly, I think that the problem was a faulty board or something, not me. I really liked all the BIOS options, great board, but the voltage related stability issue forced me to get rid of it.

PS: Anyway, there are any proyects of VRM v2 or something like that, to fix current VRMs minor problems? I really like clear CPU area and reduced power circuit area too. If a board with it can disable Vdroop function, I will buy it, and more people too IMHO.

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Yeah, I know how Vdroop works, and I really don´t want it. Stable voltage is best for us XS members. Asus, DFI, Gigabyte... must implement an option in the BIOS to let us rock stable voltage under load, or a max of 0.01v~0.02v, like CPU Voltage Damper does in lastest Asus boards.

I measured it with the Smartguardian utility, didn´t know how to read it with a multimeter. Anyway, SM confirms what I saw in my tests: with the same CPU, Asus and my current Intel board behaviour is the same. Both measured with a well calibrated multimeter, after vdroop it needs 1,19v to a stable 3.3Ghz, a little OC. With the iCFX3200, 1.35v in BIOS resulted in a 1,28v idle (no problems here, typical Vdrop), but at load, it dropped to about 1,20v. At that voltage it should be stable like it was on Asus and Intel, but it wasn´t, 1,25v or 1,30v didn´t fix it. Even at that low OC, that huge voltage fluctuations kill the stability. I played with the iCFX for about a month, trying to understand what I was doing wrong, but honestly, I think that the problem was a faulty board or something, not me. I really liked all the BIOS options, great board, but the voltage related stability issue forced me to get rid of it.

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There is Vdroop disable circuit in some of our P35 board , we will put this circuit in all future board with Digital VRM(except AMD board , AMD does not define clear Vdroop design guideline in their power spec) ...

SG utility is not calibrated unlike your reading in bios ... We have ask ITE to give us SG source code , we are working on it and try to see if we can make it more close to BIOS reading(which is calibrated) ...

About how much voltage to have stable over clocking result , I think it's vary from single board to another(even the same model) , so I can not comment too much what's the real reason you can get stable oc as other board unless I can get them and test by myself to see what's the possible root cause ...

Oh I see, thanks :up:

Yeah, stable voltage changes in single motherboard to another, but in this case uping it waaay up didn´t help.

I´m curious about what DFI is going to bring us related to X38, maybe if it is on time and voltage Vdroop disable option is present, I´ll give it a chance. Maybe you should put it clear in the package and specifications, I´m sure many folks will like it. :up:

And please, no more green crap in the LanParty series, orange rocks. Keep us far away the heatpipe madness too, with the no transpiper version abailable since board launch date :D

Wow...really good info here guys. Thanks Oskar...can't wait to get my P35 all UVed up. :D

Yea, great info. Oskar thanks for the help.

The Voltage Droop is in the Intel mobos as Intel makes the vendors add it.

Asus mobos always overvolted slightly on AMD.

There are a lot of vantages for the digital pwm, besides of voltage control.
One of the essencials for me its a clean cpu socket zone
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7199/dsc03817at2.jpg
Compare this to that
http://www.iamxtreme.net/andre/LP-P35/1.jpg
And for the heat there is always solution
http://mjrl.oc-zone.org/TJ09M/DSC03992.jpg
The guys who said there is a vdroop on PWM Digital should try DFI P35 and see it, now with PWM Dig 8 Phase i've never seen a board so stable out of the box.
;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OSKAR_WU

8 . In my personal opinion , with proper design in heat dissipation , the only cons is the price too high ... The other problem is the supply is not too good compare to traditional VRM , maybe this is why 1st tier player can not use it , they can not use a design which has supply problem ...

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Oskar here in number 8 are you referring to parts availability for tier 1 who need big bulk orders?


regards
Raja

The Digital PM on the DFI Boards get so hot with liquid cooler they shut the boards down. a fan is need to provide some airflow around the area to keep things in check. We also add some heat sinks to the chips.( The little Blue ones next to the Block)
http://<a href="http://xs.to/xs.php?...2-1.jpg.xs.jpg[/IMG]

My baby has a high temperature.
Blood Iron, CPU E2160

That looks like a lack of airflow in the case...or high ambient temp.

And the pics comparing the Asus P5E3 Deluxe to the DFI...hilarious. The Asus looks like it's got warts. :D In contrast, the DFI's socket's gotta be one of the cleanest I've every played w/.

EDIT: fixed

nice to have your input on this oskar. i use phase change cooling so the digital is far easier for me to insulate and the temps are very reasonable. my ICFX3200 actually stayed around 0c according to sg.

off topic: Oskar you have made a simply stellar board with the DFI LP UT P35 T2R i am impressed even more every day. as i have said in other threads it is probably the finest intel board on the market. i can't wait for the x38 version also.

ot 2: oskar when you release a board like the x38 lp could you possibly post up an overveiw of the bios parameters and tweaks. I know Andre and others work really hard to get us enthusiasts the info we crave but it would be awesome to have the engineer's input.

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Originally Posted by OSKAR_WU

When the cpu load changes , no matter how fast the VRM can respond , there is always a very short period you need to use the Choke and Capacitor to maintain the voltage stable ... If we can design unlimited capacitor on the board , we can remove the droop design when the capacitor can handle all these transient state , but that's not possible ...

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From the schematics you have uploaded, users can see how the power circuit responds from heavy load to light load (idle) and visa-versa.....

a. Digital OR traditional VRM with ALL the Mos-Fets in ONE LINE (straight) and cooling them with ONLY ONE heatsink, IS WRONG.....;)
Why?......EVEN if a user place the DEFAULT Intel heatsink onto the CPU, the motherboard is NEVER going to be in a "straight line" - take a look at it from it's side - .....
By this, the CENTRED Mos-Fets are getting WAY hotter than the sided ones....
Imagine now that a user buys another CPU heatsink and he starts to squeeze it much more.....
BIG mistake putting ALL Mos-Fets in one line with ONE heatsink on them..... ;)
Do you want to talk now about the enthousiasts with the cascades/LN2s?....You get an "S" shape motherboard..... :D

I'm NOT talking about DFI here......I'm talking about ALL.....;) :)


b. When using a Digital VRM Mos-IC-Fet, you encode two problems:
1. TOO tiny surface to cool down with a heatsink and
2. in case that some user wants to takes off it's heatsink and place another one on them, they are TOO delicate and they break VERY EASY....(Even a corner of them if it breaks you're s(crewed....;)


c. NO MATTER how high switching frequency the Digital VRM you make to work for efficiency/etc., you CAN'T "filter" the "Voltage spikes" from idle to full load of a CPU.....
By NOT using electrolytic capacitors ALSO ADDED on their output circuit so to "catch" (filter) better those voltage spikes and "walking" on the reference design of Voltera (for example), you're doing NOTHING.... :)


My thoughts:

a. If you want to use Digital it's OK BUT place those Mos-IC-Fet by TWO (and only OR by 4 in a square) with a quite big heatsink on them (forget heatpipes and crap like this)....
b. ADD some elecrolytic capacitors on their outputs...(SMDs like ASUS uses in some of their designs "catches" faster those voltage spikes - Vdroop of ASUS is another thing though and it has nothing to do with them - )
c. Use AT LEAST 8 Digitals so by placing them in square, you will need only two quite big heatsinks which MUST NOT TOUCH each other with heatpipe or anything else in case the motherboard gets stretched by the CPU heatsink or so....
d. DON'T use the "lined" chokes for the digital......when a user screws his mobo with the heatsink/LN2 pot/cascade, some of them break their ceramic cover and they become useless.....;)

.

Very nice read, as always, George! :clap:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

True bloody facts

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Very very nicely put there.

Now why are all the MOBO MFGS focusing on having people like Oska oc'ing the willys off the bord when what they need in the first place is someone like Hipro that knows the facts both at the engiering aspect but end user.

Hipro maybe you should get some mobo made of your own desgin, id pay for it

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Originally Posted by JoeBar

Very nice read, as always, George! :clap:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete

Very very nicely put there.

Now why are all the MOBO MFGS focusing on having people like Oska oc'ing the willys off the bord when what they need in the first place is someone like Hipro that knows the facts both at the engiering aspect but end user.

Hipro maybe you should get some mobo made of your own desgin, id pay for it

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Thanks guys, but that's just facts....:)

Oskar is a hell of technician you guys.....DON'T underestimate of him...;)

Have you guys ever thought that he's NOT alone?...He just CAN'T do whatever he wishes.....He's an employ.....So in some cases/designs sometimes "other people" may tell him what to put on or off of a mobo.....what parts for example.....cheaper, etc......;)

IF "they" leave him alone, I bet he could do miracles...;)

Another thing I whould also like to add :
Manufacturers GET R.F. technicians TOO......We are NOT anymore at 33MHz....We are WAY HIGHER than that.....
This is going (pointing) to anyone who can understand of what I'm talking about....;)

hipro it's simple

make a little pot for the mosfets and stick some dice on it during the runs :)

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Originally Posted by dinos22

hipro it's simple

make a little pot for the mosfets and stick some dice on it during the runs :)

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NOT that simple.....It won't "touch" ALL of them when mobo gets squeezed and changed it's "lined shape"...;)

Take a look at the below photo and HOW a mobo could become :D to fully understand of what I'm talking about.....;)

http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/A...ng_pcb_jpg.jpg

Now put me a "straight heatsink" on those (let's suppose) Digitals to cool them down.....:D


EDIT: BUT I know why you said that!.....You want that OVP mod of the NVIDIA....:D :p:

.

lol biatch :D

nah i'm serious

also in terms of bending there is a solution for that too

i could quote some nice pics MM posted a long time ago of his wooden board and rubber standoffs but CFB looking it up

you get the idea though ;)

let me recap then ...... wooden/metal solid board for benching with good wide and fairly short rubber standoffs and DICE cooling on PWM and you are good to go....you will have no heat in that area of mobo and mobo should be dead straight mounted on the board..............i see no reason why it would get bend that badly :p: :shrug:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

Thanks guys, but that's just facts....:)

Oskar is a hell of technician you guys.....DON'T underestimate of him...;)

Have you guys ever thought that he's NOT alone?...He just CAN'T do whatever he wishes.....He's an employ.....So in some cases/designs sometimes "other people" may tell him what to put on or off of a mobo.....what parts for example.....cheaper, etc......;)

IF "they" leave him alone, I bet he could do miracles...;)

Another thing I whould also like to add :
Manufacturers GET R.F. technicians TOO......We are NOT anymore at 33MHz....We are WAY HIGHER than that.....
This is going (pointing) to anyone who can understand of what I'm talking about....;)

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that last para flew over my head ;) but those para's above that last read so TRUE to my eyes and ears!

and for all your troubles maybe this board should be given away for free too huh?

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Oh I see, thanks :up:

Yeah, stable voltage changes in single motherboard to another, but in this case uping it waaay up didn´t help.

I´m curious about what DFI is going to bring us related to X38, maybe if it is on time and voltage Vdroop disable option is present, I´ll give it a chance. Maybe you should put it clear in the package and specifications, I´m sure many folks will like it. :up:

And please, no more green crap in the LanParty series, orange rocks. Keep us far away the heatpipe madness too, with the no transpiper version abailable since board launch date :D

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It has been mentioned before in the thread, but I also find digital PWMs a PITA from a mechanical point of view.

With my (defunct) IN9 32X I found myself in a catch 22 situation, which I was never able to overcome, and ultimately led to irreversible damage (I crushed the ceramic encapsulation).

With the default setup, and no OC, chips would shoot to what I understood as unreasonable 80-90 C.

Same setup, mild OC (X6800 @ 3.33 Ghz), they would shoot to 99-108 C under load.

Changing the thermal pad for a different type (the thick light blue one you often find in laptop GPU/VRegs) had no measurable impact on temperatures.

Liquid TIM was a no-go with the default HS, as it had (wisely enough) "legs", which left a gap enough to run freely a green rizla between the HS and the chips. Filling such void with Ceramique or MX-1 was impractical.

I looked at the possibility of making some sort of custom HS, but I didn't have at the time tools or a place to do so.

I finally acquired a water block from mips.de, and decided to give it a try. The problem I faced was... torque.

Too much and the PCB would warp leaving the centre chip with no contact whatsoever, and risk crushing the most external ones.

Not enough and the block would tilt due to the traction/torsion of the tubing.

The difference between "not-enough" and "too-much" was so little that achieving a good mount became a job for a 70 yr old Swiss clock maker.

In the end, my patience run out, and with it my pulse. I heard a sound like someone stepping on wet sand, and there went my MB.

In retrospective, even having used a back plate wouldn't have helped that much. Being the ceramic encapsulation so brittle, and with such tiny surface area, I doubt I would have managed to apply enough torque to leave the block sitting completely parallel to the surface without the same dreadful consequences.

does DFI get THAT hot as well :shocked:

digital PWM's, IMO, are fine at default clocking...but...once you start with the overclocking of a Quad core and then "jamming" ;) with P95, you better have upgraded the cooling solution cause most times the current TIM under the HS will not keep up with the excessive temps produced by overclocking a Quad cpu.

thank you oskar wu for your info, i enjoyed reading it.

i wasnt exaclty sure what vdroop really was, till i read that. Lets hope for better designs in the future

Digital PWM supplies for Memory and Chipsets may hold some merit, especially for DDR3. The lower overall current draw will probably allow for the Dmosfets to supply their full bandwidth. Using DPWM in these areas will undoubtedly increase cost, but may well be worthwhile for outright performance based motherboards.

Just a picture to add from wiki
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Delta_PWM.png

My stupid question is where does one apply heatsinks to the PWM? To the box looking PWM device (labeled R35 on my board) or the mosfets around them? or maybe both is preferred?

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Originally Posted by Vinas

My stupid question is where does one apply heatsinks to the PWM? To the box looking PWM device (labeled R35 on my board) or the mosfets around them? or maybe both is preferred?

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R35 is the choke
and u should apply the Heatsink on those mosfets ;)