DDR2 vs DDR3 - ASUS Blitz Formula vs Blitz Extreme...CellShock Rams involved...

I did some tests with both "platforms" to see IF finally worths to move to DDR3..... :)

Hardware used:

DDR2 = ASUS Blitz Formula + CellShock DDR2 Ram Modules PC9200 (red kit) - 2.66Vdimm

DDR3 = ASUS Blitz Extreme + CellShock DDR3 Ram Modules PC14400 (blue kit - BETA) - 2.36Vdimm

DDR Maximizer of course..... :p:

The benchmarks I ran, was the Super-Pi 32M which shows the DIFFERENCE more than anything else and some 3DMarks (2k3 and 2k5)....

I kept the FSB THE EXACT SAME for Reference.......ALL DDR3 runs were done with 1T .....;)

Let's see them.... :)


DDR2 ASUS Blitz Formula....Rams at 618MHz (1236MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._618rams_1.png

DDR3 ASUS Blitz Extreme....Rams at 857MHz (1714MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._858rams_1.png

DDR3 ASUS Blitz Extreme....Rams at 1029MHz (2058MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...1029rams_1.png



DDR2 ASUS Blitz Formula....Rams at 618MHz (1236MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._618rams_2.png

DDR3 ASUS Blitz Extreme....Rams at 857MHz (1714MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._858rams_2.png

DDR3 ASUS Blitz Extreme....Rams at 1029MHz (2058MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...1029rams_2.png


DDR2 ASUS Blitz Formula....Rams at 618MHz (1236MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._618rams_3.png

DDR3 ASUS Blitz Extreme....Rams at 857MHz (1714MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._858rams_3.png

DDR3 ASUS Blitz Extreme....Rams at 1029MHz (2058MHz DDR)....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...1029rams_3.png



FINAL words: YES it worths to move on DDR3 BUT we have to wait for the X38 Intel chipset to come out first.....X38 with DDR3 AND 2 x 16 PCI-E will be a blast...... ;) :D


.

Awesome ram speeds and pi times! :up: Where's it max CAS 7?

2.36V...:eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

we have to wait for the X38 Intel chipset to come out first.....X38 with DDR3 AND 2 x 16 PCI-E will be a blast...... ;) :D

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Indeed. :yepp:

I did a Super-Pi 32M WITHOUT MAXMEM here with Cas 7 - 6 - 5 - 17 and 2.42Vdimm BUT after that, my ram modules never worked over 1000MHz at that Cas latencies...... :( Though they don't produce errors lower or with Cas 8..... :)
IF this was a bench with MAXMEM involved, it would be around 12.43.xxx.......:(

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._NO_MAXMEM.png

Very nice compare test hipro, thx ;)

Thanks for this nice comparison! :up:
But I still think that DDR3 isn't worth the extra cash for me at the moment. However, I'm very pleased with how the first generation of DDR3 performs!

So DDR3 offers a slight advantage in bleeding edge overclocking, being able to run 1:2 under a cascade would be great I imagine. Now time to just wait till some D9 kits are released at a price-point the average consumer can afford.

Very nice comparison. Do you think ddr3 helps the cpu score in 3dmark 06 at all?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

I did a Super-Pi 32M WITHOUT MAXMEM here with Cas 7 - 6 - 5 - 17 and 2.42Vdimm BUT after that, my ram modules never worked over 1000MHz at that Cas latencies...... :( Though they don't produce errors lower or with Cas 8..... :)
IF this was a bench with MAXMEM involved, it would be around 12.43.xxx.......:(

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lol goerge you successfully started the killing process already on the sticks

they won't last long now :eek:

Nice work.:up:

nice job george...

you solved my confound for my rams that i ordered... :D

LOL! 2.4V on DDR3, George, I love it!

I think you're the first person to severely wound DDR3, nice job nonetheless!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

with Cas 7 - 6 - 5 - 17 and 2.42Vdimm BUT after that, my ram modules never worked over 1000MHz at that Cas latencies...... :( Though they don't produce errors lower or with Cas 8..... :) :(

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinos22

lol goerge you successfully started the killing process already on the sticks they won't last long now :eek:

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Nice results, and way to push the voltage into the 'damage caused' range :P The relentless DDR3 abuse begins....

Wait, how does this show that DDR3 is worth it? The SuperPi results only show at most a 1.2% improvement with DDR3.

you crazy..........volt maniac :ROTF: 2.4v on ddr3 ? :shocked:

meaby you are confused with the brand........Cell-Shock

and you try to shock us with the volts

yeah, I don't really see how it is worth it either...and I think I'd have an easier time hitting DDR600 4-4-4-5 than your DDR3 speeds. Why does it seem that every other computer component increases its capability in leaps and bounds while ram just takes baby steps?

Nice comparison hipro... do you find the ddr3 as fragile as the D9s? ... I really miss the bh-5 days wwhere even 4v doesnt bother the modules....

Cow and Xeno, 10sec difference at only 3600mhz is huge.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoW]8(0)

Wait, how does this show that DDR3 is worth it? The SuperPi results only show at most a 1.2% improvement with DDR3.

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percentage wise it's not large no but 1%+ in SuperPi is a big deal for us :D

2.42v DDR3 :eek: ballsy indeed :D

Very fast times indeed for both DDR2/DDR3!

Guys don't take a look at the "only" 1 - 2 % more performance.....Here is XS and (at least) all of us are trying for the max if this is on air/phase/cascade/LN2.... ;)

On 2k3 with the DDR2 Formula with CrossFire @ 850/950 at 3950MHz, I did ~70700marks
With the DDR3 Extreme at ONLY 823MHz Ram-speed, I did ~72500MHz

On 2k5 with the DDR2 Formula with the same clocks on CF, I did ~25600marks...
With the DDR3 Extreme at the same, I did ~26000.......

So as for me, yes it worths it...... :D
.....and as I said, matching the DDR3 with an X38 chipset and with pure 2 x 16 PCI-E, we will see quite good differences as for 3D and games..... ;)

Though at this point I HAVE to be honnest and say that the ABIT AW9-MAX with the 975 chipset, STILL CAN'T be catched as for the 3Ds...... :(
Maybe because it uses 2 x REAL x8 PCI-E when on the other hand the P35 chipset on ASUS Blitz (Extreme or Formula) uses a "chip" to "break" the x16 PCI-E to 2 x 8 PCI-E......This might have some latencies to the Northbrigde so that's why I get better numbers with the 975 chipset....

The Memory bandwidth with the Extreme DDR3 can't be touched easy though.... BUT the VERY LOW latency on the 975 chipset, makes it fast enough to beat anything out there as for 3Ds....;)

Example:

3DMark2005 at 3950MHz and CrossFire at 850/950

ASUS Blitz Formula: ~25600marks
ASUS Blitz Extreme: ~25994marks
ABIT AW9D-MAX: ~26422marks

2k3 with the 975 was ~73200marks

975 chipset was running at only 439MHz fsb, rams 1:1 with Cas 3-3-3-4....

As I see, 975 STILL rules in 3D till X38 comes out..... :)

george

can you tell us the difference 1T command rate on ddr3 makes in SuperPi


also maybe mention 3D as well if you can please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PanteraGSTK

Very nice comparison. Do you think ddr3 helps the cpu score in 3dmark 06 at all?

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I haven't test it yet......2K1, 2K3 and 2k5 are getting gain from DDR3......2k6, I haven't played with it yet ......;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinos22

lol goerge you successfully started the killing process already on the sticks

they won't last long now :eek:

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No, I'll take care of them......:D GOOD thing is that they work VERY COOL.....:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luihed

Nice comparison hipro... do you find the ddr3 as fragile as the D9s? ... I really miss the bh-5 days wwhere even 4v doesnt bother the modules....

Cow and Xeno, 10sec difference at only 3600mhz is huge.....

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BH-6 and BH-5 are a "different story" ..... ;)
I couldn't say that DDR3 are "fragile".....Despite the HIGH voltage on them, their temperature with a fan on them, keeps them working almost at room temperature.....They draw much lesser current than the DDR2 at the same voltage..... ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinos22

george

can you tell us the difference 1T command rate on ddr3 makes in SuperPi


also maybe mention 3D as well if you can please

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1T did almost 1 - 2 sec less time difference in Super-Pi 32M......
As for 3Ds......well not much of a difference.....It is within the margin of +/- of the 3D game's score...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

[B]
1T did almost 1 - 2 sec less time difference in Super-Pi 32M......

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really?
that's a small difference
i thought it would be a bit higher

Nice testing Hipro, we need better DDR3 as more stable and less buggy motherboards and kits.

But for speed it already matches or beats DDR2 in almost every test

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinos22

really?
that's a small difference
i thought it would be a bit higher

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Yes I thought so (by thinking of A64's 1T vs 2T).... :D BUT NO......Slightly better.....Though wherever my rams overclocked at 2T, they did the same with 1T also.....So I prefaired the 1T....:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metro.cl

Nice testing Hipro, we need better DDR3 as more stable and less buggy motherboards and kits.

But for speed it already matches or beats DDR2 in almost every test

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I think that ASUS Blitz Extreme IS stable enough with them......It plays EASY with ALL the dividers and you can see the differences of them......
I do the WinRAR bench on every changing of divider when booting into windows to see how it does......It's fast, easy and you can see the "first" deferencies between Straps/dividers/etc.....Then you bench other proggies to test.... ;)

lol....975x rules 3Dmark, no doubt.
395*10 cpu, 743/1000 2900xt 1gb*2 Crossfire.(no overclk)
ram=988 4-4-4-5, pcie=118mhz
mobo=Asus P5W64 ws pro
3Dmark05=264xx

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VictorWang

lol....975x rules 3Dmark, no doubt.
395*10 cpu, 743/1000 2900xt 1gb*2 Crossfire.(no overclk)
ram=988 4-4-4-5, pcie=118mhz
mobo=Asus P5W64 ws pro
3Dmark05=264xx

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Yes I know......After 2 years now or so, 975 STILL shows it's teeth..... :( Maybe because, as I wrote above, is some kind of latency involving of the "Crosslinx" "chip" is used to "break" the 1 x16 to 2 x8..... ;) :(

nice job! :clap:

So... it seems that i965 with that 514,6 4:5 if it will be possible by both chipset [1066 strap... - with modded strap {which can be if correctly modded, strange, faster than genuine 1066 and less NB-stressing} it should be possible with subzero NB cooling I think] and memory [642 4-4-4-4] will be faster than P35 DDR3 1:2 8-6-6-x, that's also a bit strange :rolleyes:.

My own tests:
DDR2 P35 vs. i965 using 16M Pi, all with 400x8 = 3,2GHz Allendale with various dividers and timings:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6...3641he1.th.jpg
P35 5:6 [used by hipro5 also, maybe a bit looser timings] 4-4-4-4 2t 7.03.641s

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6...1391cf6.th.jpg
P35 4:5 4-4-4-4 7.01.391s

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6...6328dy0.th.jpg
i965 4:5 4-4-4-4 6.56.328s
Over 5s better than P35 with 4:5, so over 7s better than 5:6 with P35 - and it's 16M so in 32M the difference will be more than 15s surely... Rescaling it to 3,6GHz the difference "P35 5:6 vs. i965 4:5" will be still much more than 10s :shrug:.

Re-run your benchies with the P35 chipset coz it's "tricky" as for it's straps..... ;) I bet you could do better with it..... ;)

For example: The Extreme (DDR3) mobo is WAY FASTER with the 266 strap instead of the 200 which suppose to be faster......NO it's NOT....The 200 strap acts like the 333 one..... ;)

I ALSO see that you don't have the same latencies as for your 4:5 benchies in 965 and P35......Please keep them EQUAL so to equal compare between them....For example: Write to Precharge Delayed make it 9 instead of 10 in the P35 and ONLY from this one, you'll get another 1 - 2 sec.... :)

EDIT: Hmmmm....... I see another 1 - 2 sec lower in P35 by changing the tRTP from 6 to 4...... :)

Ahhhh........You're cheating the P35 chipset...... :D

ALSO keep in mind that we are talking of ~10sec LOWER in 32M at the EXACT SAME config....We "fight" at 3600MHz for .5 - 1sec lower score and we get a 10sec difference just like that from DDR2 to DDR3....... ;)
I have used EVEN the SAME HD as for the DDR2/DDR3 and 975 chipset tests..... ;)

George ygpm ;)

Thanks for the lesson :).

I will probably jump straight to DDR3 with P35 if I will have chance ;).

In that tests I wanted to max out both platforms so Performance Level and subtimings was as low as the chipset could do [from short tests], so not equal for both chipsets.
I don't remember to gain something big from mentioned 10 => 9 Write to Precharge Delayed or 6 => 4 tRTP but maybe I overlooked something or board was unstable with that settings - I really don't remember and I don't have P35 at this moment to re-run this.

OK.......Let's some up..... :)

ABIT IN9-MAX with i680 chipset......and please don't tell that these Ram timings aren't good......:D

http://thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/ABIT_...600_i680_1.png

ASUS P5B-Deluxe with i965 chipset.....

http://thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/CONRO...00_Ram_600.png

ASUS Blitz Formula with P35 chipset AND DDR2 Rams.....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._618rams_2.png

ASUS Blitz Extreme with P35 chipset AND DDR3 Rams....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...1029rams_3.png


Hmmmm.....now that I see ALL of them together, some thoughts came into my mind...... :)
How was it possible for "some guys" to get Super-Pi 32M World Records with that crappy i680 chipset?...... :rolleyes:

nice summation Hipro. Now that you placed all teh chipset scores together and listed some 3d score I'm willing to give DDR3 another chance. I suppose its not bad for early stuff though I honestly wanted more out of a new ram standard. I'm thinking with x38 and 2nd generation DDR3 (higher clocking) we'd be talking about 12m 30s spi32M at 3600mhz...How does it scale with a higher clocked cpu?

I always love to see sub 13m @ 3.6ghz :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xenogias

nice summation Hipro. Now that you placed all teh chipset scores together and listed some 3d score I'm willing to give DDR3 another chance. I suppose its not bad for early stuff though I honestly wanted more out of a new ram standard. I'm thinking with x38 and 2nd generation DDR3 (higher clocking) we'd be talking about 12m 30s spi32M at 3600mhz...How does it scale with a higher clocked cpu?

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If you're going to do 3Ds, I will suggest you to go with the x38 chipset and DDR3.... :)

At 3950MHz it scales pretty well to..... ;) ....AT 494MHz fsb x 8 and the Rams 1:2 and 988MHz with Cas 7 - 6 - 5 - 17 or EVEN 8 - 6 - 5 - 17, it does very well.....;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwi

I always love to see sub 13m @ 3.6ghz :D

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Me too...... :D

Hipro, just for comparison sake, can you edit in 975 times also?

And I've always figured that DDR3 would take over DDR2 just for the sake of the raw speed. Plus you have more FSB on DDR3. No, offense to you, but I think in general you cant really straight compare DDR3 with DDR2 because of straps, dividers, FSB differences.

But great compaison with 680i, 965 and P35 (DDR2) :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filmbot

Hipro, just for comparison sake, can you edit in 975 times also?

And I've always figured that DDR3 would take over DDR2 just for the sake of the raw speed. Plus you have more FSB on DDR3. No, offense to you, but I think in general you cant really straight compare DDR3 with DDR2 because of straps, dividers, FSB differences.

But great compaison with 680i, 965 and P35 (DDR2) :up:

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Hmmm.......Now that you have mention it, I don't believe that I have a 32M Super-Pi run with the i975......I'll try and see if I find anything in my HDs and if not, I'll give it a try.....:)

As for the others, yes you can't compare all of them "equally" BUT I always try to get the MAX out of any mobo and then compare it with a MAX of another mobo at the SAME CPU frequencies (for reference)..... I'm not a reviewer who just plugs in and runs.....;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

[B]
As for the others, yes you can't compare all of them "equally" BUT I always try to get the MAX out of any mobo and then compare it with a MAX of another mobo at the SAME CPU frequencies (for refference)..... I'm not a reviewer who just plugs in and runs.....;)

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:clap: :D

Hipro5 very useful! Thanks a lot! :clap:

I understood at yee moment 975 is the best performer in 3D with crossfire.

What about 975 in superPI 32M. It performs better than P35? What is your opinion? Do you have some screenshot for 975?

Thanks a lot.

wow george, wow!
very nice! 2.4v... those poor poor chips :lol:
ok... i admit it, if id have a blitz id have tried 2.4v and higher too ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

I did a Super-Pi 32M WITHOUT MAXMEM here with Cas 7 - 6 - 5 - 17 and 2.42Vdimm BUT after that, my ram modules never worked over 1000MHz at that Cas latencies...... :( Though they don't produce errors lower or with Cas 8..... :)
IF this was a bench with MAXMEM involved, it would be around 12.43.xxx.......:(

---

so even when the mem is cool it gets damaged at 2.4v.... good to know!
even with our thick aluminum heatspreaders pressed against the chips with thermal paste... but you said they were cool to touch... so it seems heat was not the problem at all hmmmm

did you notice any other degradation of the memory?
please check if it gets worse and let us know!
so atm what would you say is safe?
2.35v? 2.3v?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

Yes I thought so (by thinking of A64's 1T vs 2T).... :D BUT NO......Slightly better.....Though wherever my rams overclocked at 2T, they did the same with 1T also.....So I prefaired the 1T....:)

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but you needed more vmch to get the same speed 1T right? or did you straight go for a high chipset voltage and didnt check how high you can get with a certain chipset voltage? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

I think that ASUS Blitz Extreme IS stable enough with them......It plays EASY with ALL the dividers and you can see the differences of them......
I do the WinRAR bench on every changing of divider when booting into windows to see how it does......It's fast, easy and you can see the "first" deferencies between Straps/dividers/etc.....Then you bench other proggies to test.... ;)

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winrar, nice tip!
thanks :toast:

your posted :banana::banana::banana::banana:loads of infos man, too much! hahaha
thanks for sharing all those results and tweaks! :toast:

electron migration?!?

doesn't mean the sticks have to get hot to get damaged but if DDR2 is anything to go by 2.1v is where the critical limit is for DDR3 according to reports Tony had a while back with DDR2 (~39% over stock vdimm)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinos22

electron migration?!?

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damnit you beat me to it dinos!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo

damnit you beat me to it dinos!

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:p:


i've seen what EM does to DDR2 sticks >> actually the kit i have in this 24/7 system suffers from symptoms

i cannot boot at stocks settings and have to raise vdimm to 2V to get the rig to boot (lucky 256MB D9GKW jump sticks come in handy heh) but it still runs my usual OCs at higher vdimm >>>> funny thing is that these sticks haven't really seen much past 2.2v but who knows maybe P5B DLX spikes as well

i haven't killed any of the PC10K dominator kits i have even though i mainly run them at 2.4-2.45v :) >> fingers crossed it stays that way :D even thought i will give them hell with the X38 DDR2 mobo arriving early next week :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

Example:

3DMark2005 at 3950MHz and CrossFire at 850/950

ASUS Blitz Formula: ~25600marks
ASUS Blitz Extreme: ~25994marks
ABIT AW9D-MAX: ~26422marks

2k3 with the 975 was ~73200marks

975 chipset was running at only 439MHz fsb, rams 1:1 with Cas 3-3-3-4....

As I see, 975 STILL rules in 3D till X38 comes out..... :)

---

For me, 437.5x12 3-3-3 on 975x was about 150 pts slower in 05 than 525x10 5:6 4-5-4 on Blitz. Not a huge difference but the P35 appeared a little faster.

Thanks, you share your tests/+experiences! Very useful..:) :up:

Wow, you were busy while I was sleeping. Interested in seeing the 06' benches. Hopefully x38 will be on par with 975. We will see soon enough...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by v_parrello

Hipro5 very useful! Thanks a lot! :clap:

I understood at yee moment 975 is the best performer in 3D with crossfire.

What about 975 in superPI 32M. It performs better than P35? What is your opinion? Do you have some screenshot for 975?

Thanks a lot.

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You're welcome....:)
No I don't have 32M of the 975.... :( BUT I'm sure that it'll perform worse coz
a. It will not have high fsb and
b. It will not have high memory bandwidth....
Though it has lesser latencies than the i965, i680 and P35 which counts most on 3Ds.... ;)
If we could have ALL of them in one chip, then it whould be a blessing....;) High FSB - HIGH memory bandwidth and LOW latency....;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

wow george, wow!
very nice! 2.4v... those poor poor chips :lol:
ok... i admit it, if id have a blitz id have tried 2.4v and higher too ^^

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:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

so even when the mem is cool it gets damaged at 2.4v.... good to know!
even with our thick aluminum heatspreaders pressed against the chips with thermal paste... but you said they were cool to touch... so it seems heat was not the problem at all hmmmm

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It doesn't matter if one chip is cool or not when we talk about HIGH voltage/current.....EVEN 1sec of heavy load could damage it no matter what....In 1sec it will not even get hot.... ;) :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

did you notice any other degradation of the memory?
please check if it gets worse and let us know!
so atm what would you say is safe?
2.35v? 2.3v?

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You can't say what is safe and what not in such occasions and here's why:
You may feed it with - let's say - 2.3Vdimm and you're "pussing" it too hard OR it has a "by manufacturing problem" (one chip at a million/billion)....IF ONE internal Mos-Fet of the entire SINGLE chip gets damaged, then the whole ram module IS damaged.....and we are talking about hundrents/thousands/millions Mos-Fets into ONE chip.....and Ram modules have 8 or 16 of them.... :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

but you needed more vmch to get the same speed 1T right? or did you straight go for a high chipset voltage and didnt check how high you can get with a certain chipset voltage? :D

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GOOD question....I had the same Voltage for 1T or 2T.......BUT we have a problem.....and HERE IS THE PROBLEM.....and a BIG ONE.... :(
Feeding a P35 Northbridge chipset with HIGH Voltage IT GETS DAMAGED......YES YOU READ IT WELL.....IT GETS DAMAGED..... :(
I used to play with 1.74 to 1.81Volts on this mobo and I was OK....BUT after some crushings on 3Ds, it NEEDS 2.01Volts now to work my rams high.... :(
First I though that was the rams produsing errors and crushings so I fed them with 2.34, 2.36, 2.38, 2.40, 2.42, 2.45Vdimm with NO LUCK at all.....
I then fed them with 2.34Vdimm and UPED the P35s Voltage to 1.91V.....I then was OK.....BUT NOT FOR LONG.... :( Keep upping the P35s voltage so to stabilize my rams, now I NEED 2.01Volts to do so.....DUMN this is NOT a good sign at all.....and we are talkin about 2 - 3 days period of time.... :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

winrar, nice tip!
thanks :toast:

your posted :banana::banana::banana::banana:loads of infos man, too much! hahaha
thanks for sharing all those results and tweaks! :toast:

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You're welcome....:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gautam

For me, 437.5x12 3-3-3 on 975x was about 150 pts slower in 05 than 525x10 5:6 4-5-4 on Blitz. Not a huge difference but the P35 appeared a little faster.

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Maybe due to low fsb on 975 and high fsb on P35..... ;)
As I figured out with some older testings of mine on the 975 goes something like this:
FSB 400MHz with Fatbodies at Cas 3-2-2-1 equals with FSB 440MHz with GKXs and Cas 3-3-3-1.....So at only 437 it's a bit semi-low.....At 450MHz with Cas 3-3-3-1, GKXs starting to show their teeth on the 975.....:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PanteraGSTK

Wow, you were busy while I was sleeping. Interested in seeing the 06' benches. Hopefully x38 will be on par with 975. We will see soon enough...

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I'll put the QX6700 on the mobos to test it....I'm curius too you see.... ;)


.....and now some other testings just "for the eye".....Actually I'm not fond of them but I'll upload them for someone who might be interested about them..... :)

EVEREST Memory Bandwidth with Cas 8 - 6 - 6 - 18....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...b_1030rams.png

EVEREST Memory Latency with Cas 8 - 6 - 6 - 18....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...b_1030rams.png

EVEREST Memory Bandwidth at a bit higher frequency and Cas 7 - 6 - 5 - 18....

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...1040rams_1.png

.....and the same with the Memset....:)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...1040rams_2.png

Some S-Sandra now........Actually it reads that I have 12GB of ram..... :D :p: I don't like Sandra any more coz it aint accurate and it writes whatever it wants......BUT I'll upload it coz......it is full of colours..... :D

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...b_1030rams.png

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...b_1030rams.png

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...b_1030rams.png

Very nice thread, we have a lot of information .

Subscribed :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

Some S-Sandra now........Actually it reads that I have 12GB of ram..... :D :p: I don't like Sandra any more coz it aint accurate and it writes whatever it wants......BUT I'll upload it coz......it is full of colours..... :D

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Full of colors:rofl:

Nice job there George :D

Since my board can´t do over 1900MHz DRAM CLK in dual channel I tried single channel instead.

I wonder how high the Everest score would be with the same clocks at dual channel.

Few tweaks included :)

SINGLE CHANNEL

http://www.armada.fi/Bearlake/BLP_Tw...t_SingleCH.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

Few tweaks included :)

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What kind of tweaks help with bandwith?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

It doesn't matter if one chip is cool or not when we talk about HIGH voltage/current.....EVEN 1sec of heavy load could damage it no matter what....In 1sec it will not even get hot.... ;) :)
You can't say what is safe and what not in such occasions and here's why:
You may feed it with - let's say - 2.3Vdimm and you're "pussing" it too hard OR it has a "by manufacturing problem" (one chip at a million/billion)....IF ONE internal Mos-Fet of the entire SINGLE chip gets damaged, then the whole ram module IS damaged.....and we are talking about hundrents/thousands/millions Mos-Fets into ONE chip.....and Ram modules have 8 or 16 of them.... :D

---

i know, i know, but you know what i mean :P
a voltage that 99% of the chips can take without degrading is what id like to know... what everybody would like to know i think.

victor said that he is now noticing some degradition on his blue kit from running 2.28v on it... for a few weeks i guess... so 2.25 already seems to be risky for long term use. but in the end thats good news as 2.25v is pretty high, and if there is some degradation after weeks then it makes me think 2v and maybe even 2.1v are safe for 24/7. more or less at least.
this should be good news for corsair and ocz etc who are already selling micron ddr3 rated to 2v or even higher ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

GOOD question....I had the same Voltage for 1T or 2T.......BUT we have a problem.....and HERE IS THE PROBLEM.....and a BIG ONE.... :(
Feeding a P35 Northbridge chipset with HIGH Voltage IT GETS DAMAGED......YES YOU READ IT WELL.....IT GETS DAMAGED..... :(
I used to play with 1.74 to 1.81Volts on this mobo and I was OK....BUT after some crushings on 3Ds, it NEEDS 2.01Volts now to work my rams high.... :(
First I though that was the rams produsing errors and crushings so I fed them with 2.34, 2.36, 2.38, 2.40, 2.42, 2.45Vdimm with NO LUCK at all.....
I then fed them with 2.34Vdimm and UPED the P35s Voltage to 1.91V.....I then was OK.....BUT NOT FOR LONG.... :( Keep upping the P35s voltage so to stabilize my rams, now I NEED 2.01Volts to do so.....DUMN this is NOT a good sign at all.....and we are talkin about 2 - 3 days period of time.... :(

---

interesting... i noticed something similar...
im not 100% sure but i think i could run more than 1825 dc stable on the old p5k3 i have here. its one of the first boards, we bought it right after it was available. well now it only does 1825 stable with 1.7v..

i assume you put some heavy high rpm and high air pressure fan your chipset, right george? hehehe so heat shouldnt be an issue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

Some S-Sandra now........Actually it reads that I have 12GB of ram..... :D :p: I don't like Sandra any more coz it aint accurate and it writes whatever it wants......BUT I'll upload it coz......it is full of colours..... :D

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:lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

Nice job there George :D

Since my board can´t do over 1900MHz DRAM CLK in dual channel I tried single channel instead.

I wonder how high the Everest score would be with the same clocks at dual channel.

Few tweaks included :)

SINGLE CHANNEL

http://www.armada.fi/Bearlake/BLP_Tw...t_SingleCH.jpg

---

hey stilt!
long time no see man, how are you doing? :D
try different memory slots, it can make a huge difference.
on one kit the first slots for cha and chb were 200mhz worse than the second slots!

the difference between single channel and dual channel is pretty low for ddr3, i guess its because the fsb a huge bottleneck already, even at 500fsb+.
so running one or two sticks only slightly increases the data you can push through the bus. i think for ddr2 the difference between sc and dc was already rather small, percentage wise, and i think with ddr3 its worse.

in sc you should be able to reach really high speeds.
even the worst board i have here can run above 2ghz stable in single channel and i think cmd 1t.

oh and dont forget, with micron ddr3 less volts sometimes gets you higher, did you try with less vdimm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filmbot

What kind of tweaks help with bandwith?

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lower trfc, i know george will disagree but imo everything else is chicken sht :D hehehe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

i assume you put some heavy high rpm and high air pressure fan your chipset, right george? hehehe so heat shouldnt be an issue...

---

Not warm at all......I have placed an Enzo copper heatsink on it and a DELTA fun 4x4cm some thousands rpms blowing it....:)

Thanks guys.... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saaya

hey stilt!
long time no see man, how are you doing? :D
try different memory slots, it can make a huge difference.
on one kit the first slots for cha and chb were 200mhz worse than the second slots!

the difference between single channel and dual channel is pretty low for ddr3, i guess its because the fsb a huge bottleneck already, even at 500fsb+.
so running one or two sticks only slightly increases the data you can push through the bus. i think for ddr2 the difference between sc and dc was already rather small, percentage wise, and i think with ddr3 its worse.

in sc you should be able to reach really high speeds.
even the worst board i have here can run above 2ghz stable in single channel and i think cmd 1t.

oh and dont forget, with micron ddr3 less volts sometimes gets you higher, did you try with less vdimm?

---

I´m good, thanks for asking :)

The MCH is simply weak since when the other module is plugged in the DRAM is failing thru the whole address range.

After 1900MHz it is a struggle to make it work with CAS latency under 10 CLK.
The voltage does help at all, but rewriting certain register will help a bit ;)

After rewriting the register there is no problem using lower tCL latency.

The MCH might be damaged like the other George said.
When MCH voltage is set to 1.7V from bios it actually measures 1.82V.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipro5

Enzo copper heatsink
DELTA 4x4cm
some thousands rpms :)

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HA! i knew it ^^ :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

I´m good, thanks for asking :)

The MCH is simply weak since when the other module is plugged in the DRAM is failing thru the whole address range.

After 1900MHz it is a struggle to make it work with CAS latency under 10 CLK.
The voltage does help at all, but rewriting certain register will help a bit ;)

After rewriting the register there is no problem using lower tCL latency.

The MCH might be damaged like the other George said.
When MCH voltage is set to 1.7V from bios it actually measures 1.82V.

---

hmmmmm
is that on a p5k3?
1.7v is actually 1.8? hmmmm

well on the boards that do 1950+ here i didnt notice any degradation and im running them with 1.7v vmch for 2+ weeks now.... hmmm
i think only few boards can run 2ghz stable anyways, OR you need really high vmch for that, which makes it stable but... not stable for long, lol as it appears more than 1.8 is damaging the chipset :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

The MCH might be damaged like the other George said.
When MCH voltage is set to 1.7V from bios it actually measures 1.82V.

---

wow big difference there

outch

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Stilt

I´m good, thanks for asking :)

The MCH is simply weak since when the other module is plugged in the DRAM is failing thru the whole address range.

After 1900MHz it is a struggle to make it work with CAS latency under 10 CLK.
The voltage does help at all, but rewriting certain register will help a bit ;)

After rewriting the register there is no problem using lower tCL latency.

The MCH might be damaged like the other George said.
When MCH voltage is set to 1.7V from bios it actually measures 1.82V.

---

Hello Stilt,

Could you please post some measure points? also what registers are you talking about?

Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metro.cl

Hello Stilt,

Could you please post some measure points? also what registers are you talking about?

Regards

---

You can measure the MCH voltage from various places around the MCH, but the easiest one is the empty capacitor slot under the MCH.

The DRAM is also being overvolted on my board.
Setting 2.1V from the bios measures 2.18V from the slot.

I have noticed similar action on Asus Commando motherboard too.
The memory is being overvolted by 0.1V compared to the bios setting.

Some of the Commando boards actually undervolted the dram, so I guess this varies between the inviduals.

Maybe Asus is using resistors with too high tolerance, who knows.

It seems that motherboards with "PCB Made In China" print on board have tendency to overvolt the MCH & DRAM unlike the boards with "PCB Made In Taiwan" print.

Atleast the components (coils, caps) are different between Made In China and Taiwan boards.

so its really a different board revision then?
hmmm

My Commando overvolt almost everything...
when set 1.60 etc on MCH it goes 1.65, SB also 0,05
Vdimm +0.05 , And my vcore are all over the place
when i set 1.75 it is 1.70 1.76 is over 1.80 ...really strange board, but it overclocks well... but im glad to switch to x38 :) maaany new settings and dividers, yum yum :)

Got the board working with DRAM at 2000MHz in dual channel.

ODT was the key ;)

What is ODT? :)

nice comparison George...one thing though.

you use the Luna theme for some benches and the Classic theme for others. Luna theme can have as much as 5+ second effect on 32M times...depending on OS setup. so your DDR3 times could possibly be even better using Luna theme which is scary as all hell.

your OS setup might not show as a big a benefit but it might be worth trying...i have always had Luna theme run faster on XP/2K3 and depending on other tweaks it can be a very large difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

Got the board working with DRAM at 2000MHz in dual channel.

ODT was the key ;)

---

oi! so it gave you a what, 100mhz boost?
what mem? can you see the batch of the chips? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Infa

What is ODT? :)

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on die termination i guess, i didnt know it was possible to adjust, i thought its selfadjusting... interesting :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Stilt

Got the board working with DRAM at 2000MHz in dual channel.

ODT was the key ;)

---

I assume ODT means on die termination, but: how can you change the setting? Or can you do something else with it? Is it only possible on DDR3? or only on P35 motherboards with a new tool? :confused:

The Stilt drops bombshells every once in a while

now this is a good one :D

well he only hinted at things so i think asming questions is futile, he would have posted details if he could, im sure. he probably has access to some dev tool to adjust the odt, and yeah, sounds damn nice! :D

a 100mhz+ boost is very sweet...
i wonder if adjusting odt helps to get the orange slots to work better, so maybe its just an interference problem after all and not the voltage...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3oh6

nice comparison George...one thing though.

you use the Luna theme for some benches and the Classic theme for others. Luna theme can have as much as 5+ second effect on 32M times...depending on OS setup. so your DDR3 times could possibly be even better using Luna theme which is scary as all hell.

your OS setup might not show as a big a benefit but it might be worth trying...i have always had Luna theme run faster on XP/2K3 and depending on other tweaks it can be a very large difference.

---

Thanks M8..... :)

I do experiment in XP themes but I got almost the same resault by changing them....Maybe it has something to do with the XP or something..... :)

I'll bench it with the Luna theme and I'll report back..... ;) :)

i use Luna Silver as well thanks to before who mentioned this a long time ago over at www.i4memory.com >> don't be shy to visit boys ;)

Yeah Luna silver for me.. but now with new nlite made winxp pro sp2 disk i'll try luna royale blue and black as well :D

i thought disabling the themes service all together would help to get some tiny bits of extra performance?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saaya

i thought disabling the themes service all together would help to get some tiny bits of extra performance?

---

nah they are actually used for Pi strangely enough

To continue my DDR2 vs. DDR3 comparision (post #28):

I played with DDR3 "as promised" ;). And the result is as predicted - 4:5 4-4-4-4 i965 is equal with 1:2 8-6-6-x 1T P35 DDR3.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6...6094yd6.th.jpg
P35 DDR3 1:2 8-6-6-18 1T 6-56-094 [the same subtimings as used by hipro5]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6...6328dy0.th.jpg
i965 4:5 4-4-4-4 6-56-328 {1,65V NB, probably ~1,50V will do the same}

or

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9...1333en3.th.jpg
i965 4:5 4-4-4-4 6-56-203 modded1333 [boot @ 401, SetFSB => 400, PMem 10, 24, 03, 06, 09 and run; 1,25V NB]

514,6 FSB 4:5 4-4-4-4 with i965 is possible, unfortunately with worse "modding" [10, 24, 03, 04, 08 - like this, I'm not 100% sure] - the performance is like 4:5 P35 5-4-4-4 only [tested @ 500 4:5 4-4-4-4 16M], a bit more modding or sth and i965 will fly :)
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3...ish4sg8.th.jpg

DDR3 is good [better than DDR2] but only with really high FSB (>450 minimum, to exclude 2:3 5-4-4-4 DDR2 I think ;)) - that's my opinion :).

Here is dual channel run with adjusted ODT.

http://www.armada.fi/Bearlake/BLP_Tw...CMB_DualCH.jpg

Since ODT cannot be adjusted (on Asus) from the bios and it is impossible to get in Windows without adjusting (if tCL is under 10CLK) it I have to boot with 470FSB and use clockgen to get higher. When booting under 500FSB the transaction booster / performance level must be loosen a bit because otherwise you won´t reach 500FSB. Of course when booting at 500FSB it will be automatically loosen as the "strap" changes at 500FSB.

ODT can actually be adjusted with tools available to public.
I use the good ol' WPCREDIT and Pmem combination for all of the adjustments.

Unfortunately my board seem to get worse and worse.
Few days ago I had no problem doing 2000MHz / 1T in single channel, today I cannot even get in to Windows with the same settings :(

There is no difference in MCH temps or voltage.
The chip just cannot do it any more.

Seems that using 1.8V will damage the MCH really fast. It is not a surprise thou, since it is a 90nm part and even the 975X (130nm) could be damaged with 1.8V+ in prolonged use.

I would like to see if there is any difference in ODT register configuration on Blitz compared to P5K3.

so have you done any Pi tests
does it make any difference

shame about your board going a bit :banana::banana::banana::banana:house :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinos22

so have you done any Pi tests
does it make any difference

shame about your board going a bit :banana::banana::banana::banana:house :(

---

ODT does not have effect to bandwidth.
Adjusting it seem to make the DRAM more stable.

I don´t mind the board, P5E3 Deluxe is on the way :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Stilt

ODT does not have effect to bandwidth.
Adjusting it seem to make the DRAM more stable.

I don´t mind the board, P5E3 Deluxe is on the way :)

---

oh that's great
how much extra do you gain

you had some shocker dual channel results on that board
in all slots??

i assume you ran all for slots and found the fastest one for your tests

Some tests I did with LN2 trying to find how to bench.....Though the frequency is a bit low but I benched at that frequency just to compare with my other setups..... :)

ASUS Blitz Formula and CellShock PC14400 DDR3 seems to be VERY fast on ALL benchmarks....;)

A 2k5 one..... :)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._1008_1242.png

2k5 COMPARE URL...

Aquamark3 @ 5302MHz and VGA @ 972MHz and 1242MHz....:)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...5_972_1242.gif

....when the LN2 started to end, I did a Super-Pi 32M at 5407MHz and it did 9.10min.....BUT I could't save it coz I had no more LN2 to fill the container and I lost it....When it showed the score, and I made my moves to open cpu-z, etc. the temp was too high and the rig rebooted....:(

I'll try it some other time....:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

Some tests I did with LN2 trying to find how to bench.....Though the frequency is a bit low but I benched at that frequency just to compare with my other setups..... :)

ASUS Blitz Formula and CellShock PC14400 DDR3 seems to be VERY fast on ALL benchmarks....;)

A 2k5 one..... :)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._1008_1242.png

2k5 COMPARE URL...

Aquamark3 @ 5302MHz and VGA @ 972MHz and 1242MHz....:)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...5_972_1242.gif

....when the LN2 started to end, I did a Super-Pi 32M at 5407MHz and it did 9.10min.....BUT I could't save it coz I had no more LN2 to fill the container and I lost it....When it showed the score, and I made my moves to open cpu-z, etc. the temp was too high and the rig rebooted....:(

I'll try it some other time....:)

---

Got PM?

:clap: Such killer system perf...these new platforms look like so much fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gautam

:clap: Such killer system perf...these new platforms look like so much fun.

---

Indeed! Great scores, as always, George! :clap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Stilt

ODT can actually be adjusted with tools available to public.
I use the good ol' WPCREDIT and Pmem combination for all of the adjustments.

---

Thanks!

Thanks guys......Yes this comb. IS fast indeed.....;)

impressive hipro!

very fast

Thanks guys..... :)

I think that working the Super-Pi 32M on this comb. it will be easy to take down a WR at ONLY 5500MHz - 5550MHz.... ;)

you're close,very close to do it hipro

go george go :cheer: :D

With only one VGA on board, this mobo (ASUS Blitz Extreme) can't be touched easy with any other mobo out there......No1 for me....TOO God dumn fast.....NOT only as for Super-Pi BUT as of EVERYTHING....Gee, I'm happy....;) :D

Link for "geting ready"......:D

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=159973


.

Amazing George !, congratulations not only for the tests and tweaking provided in this thread, but also for your 23/09/07 Aquamark & 3D Mark 05 results ;) ... (sorry for the off topic guyzzz)

Thanks George....:)

How's that WinRAR Bench at only 3500MHz?.....:)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...inrar_3125.png

You're making ddr3 look better and better...Too bad we can't get the blitz boards in the US...Not that I have the money for one anyway...

I found it funny that George is the first to do some harm to DDR3 sticks.
Your one of a kind!:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

I found it funny that George is the first to do some harm to DDR3 sticks.

---

Hahahaha you don't say ! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Movieman

I found it funny that George is the first to do some harm to DDR3 sticks.

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Typically that's wrong, ask my ex DDR3-1600CL7 kit ( that did very well ) what happened to them :p: :( [ harmed in transportation ]

Some more testing before benching..... :)

A newer WinRAR bench.....:)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...inrar_3402.png

...and a 2k6 with SINGLE VGA at low clocks (just testing the mobo for now)....;)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...972_1242_1.gif

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...972_1242_2.gif

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...972_1242_3.gif

2k6 COMPARE URL...

That's for now.....I'll be back for more....:)

.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hipro5

Some more testing before benching..... :)

A newer WinRAR bench.....:)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...inrar_3402.png

...and a 2k6 with SINGLE VGA at low clocks (just testing the mobo for now)....;)

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...972_1242_1.gif

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...972_1242_2.gif

http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...972_1242_3.gif

2k6 COMPARE URL...

That's for now.....I'll be back for more....:)

.

---

Looking at those 06' cpu scores it would seem that ddr3 gives an extra boost to the cpu score. I couldn't find a 5200mhz quad cpu score to compare it to (wonder why:rolleyes: ), but it does give a 100pt higher cpu score than Vince's striker at higher clocks. http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=2856930

Ok, I found a better cpu score to compare. This is done by Kinc 45nm cpu @ 5200 on x38 & ddr2 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=3171117

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PanteraGSTK

Ok, I found a better cpu score to compare. This is done by Kinc 45nm cpu @ 5200 on x38 & ddr2 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=3171117

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No doubt we 're talking about a great cpu score, however carried out with a Yorkfield instead of a Kentsfield used in George's bench ... ;) And the X38 chipset ---> 620FSB without Vcore & Vdimm mods ... I know that in overclocking you can't blame anyone that has better scores with a different setup but, never mind ... Anyway, George nice mobo, is it moded btw ?