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Monday, July 16, 2007
source:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/I...51_306,00.html
What is so "Special" about this "Special" meeting? we will have to wait and see but with
AMD drooping the ball K10 fiasco (and it is a fiasco so far) nothing will surprise me.
===
Well, any idea what is it about?
maybe they want to sell to private investors.
If so, I hope that they are wealthy and commited to making AMD a top dog.
They'd have to make a huge R&D budget to replace the current non-existant one.
They're going to fire Hector for deceiving them.
i have amd stock...
Probably not Voting shares...Methinks there is a major announcement coming...and alot of people may not like it.
That's a very possible!Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Uh oh:(
Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector!
Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector!
Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector!
Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector!
Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector! Fire Hector!
You have my condolences. :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by freecableguy
Damn, hopefully they're just going to sell off ATi or something, but either way, it can't be good news.
Now how dumb would that be? Buying ATI and then selling it after only 1 year. :rolleyes:
They are probably low on cash, so selling it (as long as it's not a big loss) would not be too bad.
Self-preservation maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neon Biker
I dont think that's going to happen, ATI need AMD and AMD need ATI,Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter
CPU and GPU are merging (on top of other things), that was a good move
although one can ask if the price was to high.
Why the next generation for the K8 appearing so late? That is the issue.
As always one need to remember, AMD is fighting a giant monopoly, a strong
financial back will be very much appreciated, thank you.
That's not going to happen as long as Hector Ruiz is given a exaggerated paycheck to make short-sighted business decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsahi
AMD needs new fabs. That's the only problem.
well that is expected from more demand than supply... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
But heaven knows many people seem to think selling alot of things at profit would ruin a company :rolleyes:
That must be why they posted such a big profit last quarter :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
A special stockmeeting could be from anything to nothing.
For those that might think selling ATI, nopes. maybe parts of ATI like the PDA/Cellphone parts that makes up about 40% of the former ATI.
Else new management maybe, since Hector basicly drove the company down in the ground.
But we will see in a month. Maybe its something, maybe its nothing.
how is the K8 to K10 big lag is FAB related?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
The problem is a fierce battle against a giant monopoly.
Not entirely true, been a fabless or semi fabless company isn't that hard for this days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
No way that is going to happen, all semiconductor future estimates say that there is the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
They can only outsource 20% of the production. Else they will lose their x86 license.Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
But they also need cash now to handle operations. And its something they could sell off without putting the core business at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
since you obviously know everything about AMD, why don't you just try to become their new CEO :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
k10 sample give away?
Believe me the core business isnt worth half of CE estimates. In fact many have said that from CE is where intel will get the money to keep their high R&D investment going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
I didnt know about the X86 licence limit, interesting, is that 20% per CPU or per Core?
I leave that to all the financial experts that says it. But they were obviously wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
http://eetimes.com/news/latest/showA...leID=199200164
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.j...leID=198900098
http://www.vnunet.com/crn/news/21887...poor-quarterly
But maybe the special meeting is about Hector got so much cash he dont know what to use it on, right? :shrug:
CPUQuote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Nice info, do you have a link where i could find out more info about the x86 license?
I'm not so sure if even AMD needs it that much now
Special means that this isnt the planned yearly meeting.
these meetings are usualy done for several reasons.
When the company is losing marketshare or has product delays they make these meetings to ensure the stockholders that stuff isnt going like planned but that it isnt going as bad as the media says, so simply to keep confidence up.
another reason todo these kind of meetings is to tell the shareholders about a big change for wich they need the stockholders permission.
Like AMD is gonna ask them permission to sell AMD to another party.
lets hope they are gonna anounce plans to be taken over or fuse with IBM.
If they loose their x86 license, they can't make or sell x86 CPUs! Thats basically their entire business. If they loose that license, AMD is basically doneQuote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
There is an censored part here:Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
http://techdeals.startup.findlaw.com...001.01.01.html
But the number aint in that ofcourse.
However there is a limitation also pointed out here on XS and other places, just to list a few links:
http://www.aceshardware.com/forums/r...3309&forumid=1
http://www.aceshardware.com/forums/r...3312&forumid=1
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderd...t-helps-intel/
Lol i know about that, it came wrong if intel didn't want AMD to produce more CPUs instead of beating them with a better process/CPU/etc... they could just stop renovating the license right? so 20% doesn't seem that strict.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head
AMD has the license since 1994, i bet i has been renewed in all this years that is why i wondered / asked for a link to the original license to read it.
This was brought up and discussed ad-nauseum at another forum:
http://www.xcpus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256
Specifically Post #50
It turns out the "special meeting" is for the discussion of Employee Stock compensation (guess ole Hector wants more $$$ ?)
FYI, there is no renewal of the license. It is a PERPETUAL, ROYALTY FREE license. And Intel can't change that (legally binding contract/settlement).Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
In exchange for that, Intel gets free use of ANY additions to the x86 architecture that AMD makes (a la x64).
And this licence can't be transfer by amd neither by selling AMD itself, neither by outsourcing too much (which is about giving a x86 licence to somebody else...)
AMD said themselves that they will sell at a loss in order to gain more marketshare. thier current strategy involves short term losses in favor of long term gains. Personally i think this is not a good strategy for AMD because AMD doesn't have the cash to fight intel in pricewar. They need barcelona to to be a real winner so they can start building cash again, hopefully thier marketshare gamlble pays off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
that stategy worked fine, when amd had a better product... since conroe, amd has been cuttin prices and losing marketshare... they're not cutting to gain,they're cutting to stop the bleeding... where are you, sanders....
I think AMD should care more about keeping its current FABs full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
Currently AMD is losing both marketshare and cash. So its a double failure if thats Hectors plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Thats not true, AMD has to pay Intel royalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by mstp2009
Quote:
4. ROYALTY PAYMENTS BY AMD
4.1. AMD agrees to pay INTEL a royalty on the Net Revenue from sales and
other dispositions of Royalty-Bearing Units as a percentage of such
Net Revenue according to the following schedule:
Disposition Date of Royalty-Bearing Unit Royalty Rate
---------------------------------------- ------------
***** *****%
***** *****%
***** *****%
***** *****%
Confidential treatment has been requested for portions of this exhibit. The
copy filed herewith omits the information subject to the confidentiality
request. Omissions are designated as *****. A complete version of this exhibit
has been filed separately with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
- 7 -
<PAGE>
INTEL & AMD CONFIDENTIAL
------------------------
4.2. Intel represents that for the term of this Agreement, *****. The
parties agree that in no event shall Intel's performance under the
terms of this provision or Intel's breach of this representation be
a cause of legal action or termination for material breach.
4.3. Within ***** (*****) days of the end of each calendar quarter, AMD
shall pay the full amount of royalties due with respect to such
quarter to Intel by wire transfer for the account of Intel to *****,
or such other account as Intel may indicate from time to time. Along
with each such payment, AMD shall deliver to Intel a detailed
written royalty statement, in a form reasonably acceptable to Intel,
which shows the sum of the ***** each allowed deduction applied by
AMD to arrive at the ***** sold or otherwise disposed of, the
royalty rate in effect, and the total royalty due to Intel. All
royalty notices and reports shall be delivered to Intel at the
following address, until such address is changed by notice from
Intel:
Intel Corp
2111 NE 25th Ave
Hillsboro, OR 97124
MS JF3-149
4.4. All payments shall be made free and clear without deduction for any
and all present and future taxes imposed by any taxing authority. In
the event that AMD is prohibited by law from making such payments
unless such deductions are made or withheld therefrom, then AMD
shall pay such additional amounts as are necessary in order that the
net amounts received by INTEL, after such deduction or withholding,
equal the amounts which would have been received if such deduction
or withholding had not occurred. AMD shall promptly furnish INTEL
with a copy of an official tax receipt or other appropriate evidence
of any taxes imposed on payments made under this Agreement,
including taxes on any additional amounts paid. In cases other than
taxes referred to above including but not limited to sales and use
taxes, stamp taxes, value added taxes, property taxes and other
taxes or duties imposed by any taxing authority on or with respect
to the Agreement, the costs of such taxes or duties shall be borne
by AMD. In the event that such taxes or duties are legally imposed
initially on INTEL or INTEL is later assessed by any taxing
authority, then INTEL will be promptly reimbursed by AMD for such
taxes or duties together with any penalties, fines and interest
thereon, except for interest, fines and/or penalties assessed due to
the negligence, failure or fault of INTEL which interest, fines
and/or penalties remain the sole obligation of INTEL. This clause
shall survive the termination of the Agreement. Notwithstanding the
foregoing, AMD shall not be responsible for taxes on or measured by
Intel's net income.
4.5. INTEL agrees to make every good faith effort to notify AMD's tax
department within ten (10) days of any audit, notice, assessment or
other action affecting sales, use, stamp, value added, property or
other taxes to be paid directly or indirectly by AMD. INTEL grants
AMD the right to pursue a separate action against any governmental
unit that asserts such taxes against INTEL and INTEL agrees to
cooperate in a reasonable manner with AMD for the purpose of
minimizing taxes, that pursuant to this section are to be paid
directly or indirectly by AMD.
Confidential treatment has been requested for portions of this exhibit. The
copy filed herewith omits the information subject to the confidentiality
request. Omissions are designated as *****. A complete version of this exhibit
has been filed separately with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
- 8 -
<PAGE>
INTEL & AMD CONFIDENTIAL
------------------------
4.6. AMD agrees that any payments required under the terms of this
Agreement which are not paid when due will accrue interest at the
***** rate established by ***** (on the first business day after any
such payment is due), where such interest shall accrue starting
***** (*****) days after the due date as established by this
Agreement. The right to collect interest on such late payments shall
be in addition to any other rights that INTEL may have herein.
4.7. AMD covenants that it will maintain adequate accounting records of
all production, sales, leases or other dispositions of ***** for
purposes of audit sufficient to permit a reasonable confirmation of
AMD's compliance with its royalty obligations herein for a period of
three (3) years after sale or other disposition of each *****. The
foregoing information shall be used solely for audit purposes.
4.8. The parties agree that INTEL shall have the right to conduct audits
of AMD for the purpose of determining that the terms of this
Agreement are being met. Such audits shall be held at any reasonable
time during business hours but no more than once in each calendar
year. An independent certified public accounting firm selected and
paid by INTEL and reasonably satisfactory to AMD shall conduct such
audits. The purpose of such audits shall be to verify that the terms
of this Agreement are being met, including the royalty statements
and payments provided herein. AMD agrees to provide such accounting
firm with reasonable access to accounting records and information
requested during an audit. The information will be made available to
the accounting firm under conditions of confidentiality and it will
report to INTEL and to AMD only whether the terms of this Agreement
are being met, including without limitation that payments have been
properly reported on and paid or, if not, the amount of any
overpayment or underpayment. This provision will survive the last
payment of a royalty under this Agreement for a period of three (3)
years. Should the audit discover any errors or omissions by AMD
resulting in an underpayment of more than five percent (5%) of the
amount due with respect to any reporting period, AMD shall reimburse
Intel for the full costs of such audit.
4.9. The parties hereby agree that the above royalty rates are a
reasonable compromise for ease of accounting and administration
based on the fact that neither party wishes to keep strict records
of the Intel Patents that each Royalty-Bearing Unit or the
manufacturing processes therefor infringes based on AMD's constantly
changing product mix, manufacturing technology and the likelihood
that Intel will receive new patents covering both such products and
processes during the term of this Agreement.
...and take AMD's money backQuote:
Originally Posted by freeloader
Hector de J Ruiz's Compensation Vs. Semiconductors Medians
Salary $0.95 mil Vs. $0.83 mil
Bonus $4.00 mil Vs. $1.28 mil
Other $0.94 mil Vs. $0.12 mil
Stock Gains $3.13 mil Vs. $0.00 mil
Total Compensation $9.02 mil Vs. $3.25 mil
That's about 200% above average. :shakes:
Believe me they are fullQuote:
Originally Posted by savantu
Given their current MS and inventory problems , allow me to express my doubtsQuote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
If anything , I expect AMD to downsize their production at least for a while.
Not to be rude but who are you to judge him because he is getting paid above average? Before C2D Hector lead a company posting record profits every quarter and boasting huge marketshare gains. If you ran a business well for years how would you feel if your stockholder took you to a lynching after two weak quarters? No doubt AMD underestimated intel's capabilities, but you haven't even given them a chance to launch thier response to C2D yet. It took intel 3 years to respond to the clawhammer effetively, i think we can give amd a little time too.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoX
I thought from the beggining that a marketshare game would drown AMD. Even when they were top performers, IMO they grew too fast for the company to keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Hector got a golden cow handed to him after Sanders, and all he did was to butcher it. Not in a million years is he worth what he get paid. To compare he gets over 4 times of what Intels CEO gets. Hector cashed in about 16million in 2006. Atleast 10 of those could be used to keep some people employed. or lessen the new burden from the 500million R&D cut in the budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Hector simply made one mistake after another and have never proven his worth of such an overpaid wage.
Sanders knew AMDs role and position, Hector never understood it and started the crusade into the lands that couldn´t be conquered yet. It took intel 1 quarter to gain back all the marketshare K8 took from them over 3 years.
Hector had hybris and got nemesis.
AMD needs Jerry back :( Hector has done nothing for the company.
i dont see how AMD come be a winner on Intel / AMD, even if K10 beats C2D & Penryn by a good margin (say 30%) they wont have them for 2007 for desktop in quantities and Intel will lower prices even more with 45nm to counter.
So AMD has like 1 year to get some money back until Nehalem comes and put intel back in competition or win. The picture is clear until then, but what will happend with AMD from there? they dont have the resources for doing a 2 year cycle like Intel, they dont have the best production capacity or know how in lower nm and probably wont have much more money to keep fighting.
I strongly believe that a CEO compensation should be significantly linked to the company financial performance, and the way I see it, 5yrs after his appointment at AMD, Ruiz has led the company in a financial situation worst than it was when he came in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
That’s hard to tolerate especially considering that in the meanwhile the company successfully launched in 2003 the Athlon 64, which generated big revenues for years and allowed considerable market share gains. Ruiz deserves little recognition for that because he stepped in when the project was already proceeding. He decided to provide his contribution when instead of consolidating AMD financial sheets once and for all, or getting ready for the competition by filling the R&D pipeline with new products, blew all the cash on the ATI acquisition. The timing of his decision couldn’t have been worst, because while AMD was busy dealing with the ATI turmoil, Intel started firing back with strong products on all the fronts. IMO these are all very poor management choices that don't justify at all the millions he’s getting in bonuses ($28mil in 5yrs) and stock options (+$50mil) I am confident that in the same 5yrs a more pragmatic CEO would have produced more than 4% of total return on stock performance, and now AMD could have been in a much more comfortable situation.
Indeed. How is it that Hector makes $16.1M:Quote:
Originally Posted by NoX
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2007...mpensation.htm
While Otellini only makes $6.18M?
http://iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/2...mpensation.php
Hector has buried AMD in debt, to the point where it's very survival is in question, but sees no problem with paying himself more than 2x what the guy running his much larger and much more successful competitor does.
Maybe Hector should give up $10M for the sake of the company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Periander6
AMD can sustain itself for the time being...they have before. What needs to happen, is since AMD and IBM have a partnership, IBM needs to step in and help out AMD. IBM has the financial power to do it...
It's all about the options. Jobs makes $1/year for his salary, but he cashed in due to the Apple stock options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Periander6
maybe you should step back and think that the 3 years of amd's dominance were the result of years of sander's planning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn.
So why since Conroe release AMD fired like 1000 employes and Intel fired like 10000 :rolleyes: . Hector Ruiz look like devil for a lots but he's not firing people while is making money.
I agree but comparing apples to apples at the end of 2006 Otellini made ~$9mil in salary+bonuses (same as Ruiz) and has $26mil in stock options (vs ~$50of Ruiz)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmage
Considering that AMD has about 1/10th of the workforce of Intel, those numbers look proportional.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
1/6th not 1/10th. After u can choose to use 10000 workers fired or 10% workers fired, as you wish...Quote:
Originally Posted by NoX
Maybe he should have been?Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
Intel didn't fire because they were in need of profits, but because they didnt want to give profits to people that offered no benifit to them.
Rather then letting the company become more bloated they made it more lean, more competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoX
Touche, i should have looked at AMD's whole history before i interjected. I didn't realize how recent hector's appointment was.
Well, today is the day, anyone has an idea what is this all about?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsahi
FUD says financingQuote:
Originally Posted by tsahi
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=1959&Itemid=1
Couple more hours and we'll know what it is about.
I will bet you $10000 that they are not full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
1. One of the fabs is being retooled from 200mm to 300mm wafers, which implies that its far from been fully utilized.
2. One of the fabs has just been transformed into a 65nm fab, which implies that it is still ramping up.
3. AMD also decreased purchase of SOI wafers, according to Soitec.
They could be running at the maximum numbers of wafer starts, but they are far away from being full.
they authorized more shares.Quote:
Originally Posted by XeRo
of course... if they make a meeting with their stockholders what else could they want? more money.... thats the only reason you make a meeting with your stockholders, you want to convince them to give you more money...
I hope for AMD they fire Hector or that he resigns. Else its like putting money into a black hole.
Highest payed CEO and the biggest imbecil possible at his job. I still dont get how that happend, specially not for a company that should be finely rationalized and tuned.
> AMD needs new fabs. That's the only problem.
If you're saying they need upgraded fabs to smaller micron and more efficient processes, then yeah, always. If you meant for capacity, then no based on thier current situation of a build up of intentory and dropping prices. If they managed a competative product in the future they could use more capacity then. Whether that defines Barcelona remains to be seen.
asside form the fact that AMD's required to make most of it's x86 CPUs in house...Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
This point is now clear:Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink
"Giuseppe Amato: That rumor is the result of a misinterpretation of an announcement that our CEO, Hector Ruiz, made. He was saying that AMD will leave the care of manufacturing and production to partner foundries only for parts that are not an intellectual property, IP. This does not imply that all AMD manufacturing will be decentralized. Only standard technology parts will be outsourced for manufacturing to our partner factories, which will result in an economic benefit for us."
http://www.hwupgrade.com/articles/cp...ato_index.html
Shakes head and thinks, very sad but true!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Shintai....you AMD hater you:D Man I have never seen anybody bash AMD or ATI for that matter as hard as you do!
Starting to wonder if Intel and Nvidea hired you to spread propaghanda!
They should fired him for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
With incredible capacity of analyse I begg you to apply for the job!!! I'm sure in one quarter you can help AMD to destroy Intel since you perfectly know Intel roadmap for the next seven years at less...;) Knowing your sacrifice spirit I'm sure you will faithfull your duty for only 5 DKK!!! Yes les than 1 dollars :shocked:
This is very interesting, a special meeting admist rumours of a Samsung take over.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...22#post2312922
It also seems that AMD stock has been pushing up quite a bit lately in the past week, I can't summon all the factors for it, but it does give some more speculation and possible backing behind some take over rumours.
This pre-share holder meeting hype has given me the oportunity to get out of AMD with a small profit.:clap:
Yeah, Samsung could really unleash some potential from AMD. They have lots of assets, resources, and finances to drive them up. Just imagine, more fab labs for the CPU and GPU's, not to mention they could hire more and better Engineers with their cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekFSE
This could and would give Intel some sleepless nights and motivation to make the best they can or less they'll be getting the smack down.
:clap:
I'm not against Intel or anything, but I am certainly looking forward to some serious competition as motivation for better, more efficient products. :)
Yes, they are using immersion and are ramping, but they are not yet at full capacity of 25k WSPM for neither fab 36 nor fab 30/38.Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekFSE
They should kiss the NY fab good bye. It was just retarded. Their capacity expansion plan in 2006 and early 2007 was aiming for 40% market share.
Hector is a very good CEO, he knows when to exit businesses such as comm or flash.
The retarded one is Dirk Meyer and Martin Sayer.
Isn't Dirk Meyer "the Athlon (K7) father"? (or one of them)
Why would anyone want to build a fab in the US? it cost a LOT more money to, which all the strict regulations on chemical waste, and all that. Which is why like 90% (my guesstimate) of semiconductors wafers are made over seas.
not that this has anything to do with anything. i just always wondered why AMD would open a fab in NY. if anyone knows and wants to enlighten me, that would be cool :)
building a fab is mostly about who can shove the most money up ur ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge
Its about who gives you the most free stuff and most tax benefits.
like to persuade AMD to build a fab in New York, the City and the State of New York both help pay for the FAB or give them tax benefits for the first few years or make them promises about improving the infrastructure to the fab.
They could sell AMD the land that the fab will b build on for a fraction of its real price.
How would you explain the german fabs then? Specially the environment regulations is alot harder, along with higher power cost etc. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge
Its simply who pay most as the above person said.
K, thanks for the info guys. I was just curious, and wondered what would make AMD do that. I've worked for 2 semiconductor companies, and both subcontract their wafers and assembly overseas. my current one used to create their own wafers, but i heard they stopped doing that years ago cause of strict regulations and costs. The building they used to own (for making wafers) is still currently unoccupied... probably because of chemical waste.
First thing :AMD won't die.
Second thing:AMD won't be acquired by Samsung.
You can quote that if you like.
I agree with you .Except for Marty Sayer :).Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminc
sample:Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge
http://www.europa.eu/rapid/pressRele...guiLanguage=en
1. amd should have stuck with 939 longer
2. while continuing to manufacture and sell extremely competitive 939 products, putting huge pressure on the ddr & agp markets, with a steady revenue stream, and the integrated memory controller easily compensating for the lack of ddr2, they could have researched am2 and made it worthwhile (they could have basically done away with am2+).
i could compare it to rambus ram. amd didn't follow intel into rambus ram, and intel abandoned rambus in the end. amd did move with intel into ddr2, under hector, giving a utterly negligible performance improvement on the way. a waste of r&d time and money, and a waste of customer's money too tbh, making us buy a new motherboard and ram so we could keep upgrading the cpu, when the am2 cpus could easily have been developed for 939 instead. and amd moving to ddr2 was great marketing for ddr2 (and therefore intel), convincing people that ddr2 was worthwhile. but the cost of ddr2 & buying an am2 mobo compared to the existing 939 systems was not. who here would buy a 65nm 939 cpu with 2 x 1mb cache if one was available? :cool: you know you'd want it even if you didn't buy it :D but you can't even get a 65nm 2x1mb cache am2 cpu. its almost insulting! after all 'we' are AMD's biggest fanbase... without enthusiasts AMD wouldn't exist as we know it.
there'd be a lot more incredibly high performance ddr1 ram around if they'd done that, and maybe a bunch more dual-gpu solutions for AGP, because lets face it... a 7950GX2 style gfx card is a tidier solution than SLI, and an AGP bus could handle it. PCI-e x16 is needed for SLI & xfire because its also used for inter-GPU communication.
instead amd moved to am2, taking intel head on, when they could have had the enthusiast market wrapped around their finger by consolidating 939, and used its success to boost them into an am2/am2+ combination. the only reason ddr is more expensive than ddr2 now is because there was no reason for manufacturers to keep making it.
hector had a good thing going (inherited from sanders in many respects) and he decided to use his success to try and invade russia. :down:
now he's getting his arse kicked back into europe.
so we have this incredibly badly timed acquisition of ati and some kooky plans that will take decades to pay off for GPUs on the CPU die? and suddenly performance per watt benchmarks are popping up everywhere... lets face it... performance per watt is one of the few nice things you can say about AMD at the moment (other than 'gee, wasn't k8 great'). a CPU could use 400W, we've overcome bigger cooling challenges than that, if it had the highest performance we would buy it. i really don't want to see amd pushed into the mobile phone business, but its where they've pointed themselves.
is anyone reminded of another small manufacturer of CPUs who stress their low power per performance? i don't see many people running VIA cpu rigs for gaming or office computing...
i'm not even saying the mobile business is the pits, or a 2nd rate option. the direction amd is heading might turn out to be great for them. i'd just rather see amd stick to what it was doing so well, but hector seemed more interested in world domination. the well established ddr1 and AGP standards would have kept AMD 'seperate' enough from intel to completely avoid a price war. and lets face it, running into a price war is suicide for a smaller competitor, and the price war has not been pretty for amd :shakes:
of course... hindsight is 20/20. but if amd had stuck with 939 longer, and made am2 something interesting and worth upgrading to (while letting Intel handle 100% of the brunt of marketing ddr2 ram) they'd have released a much improved am2 later at a good time to compete with conroe. and how different things could be if they'd done that...
now they have a bunch of chipset & gpu developers onboard and want to outsource production? they were doing a great job a few years ago with the cpus while outsourcing chipset and gpu production iirc
yes i am a slightly disgruntled former customer :yepp:
agp 3.0 or 8x is just over 2GB/s theoretical, pci-e is 250MB/s per lane theoretical, making agp similar to pci-e x8. and pci-e x8 in sli only causes a few percent performance drop from pci-e x16 on top end cards, with some of the bandwidth used to transfer information between the cards/coordinate the cards. so i think the agp bus could have been kept in service for quite a while longer.
just like ddr ram, the price for agp parts rose simply due to new standards being quickly adopted by both intel and amd at the same time. but amd could have let intel do the hard work in the marketing sector (which intel could actually afford to do), and left adopting ddr2 and PCI-e till later on... although in the end whether to adopt PCI-e or not was somewhat up to motherboard and chipset manufacturers.
its like amd caved in to the suggestions of their marketing department, going to ddr2 and pci-e x16 so as to not apper 'behind' intel, along with other gimmics like labelling their cpus with numbers that were unrelated to the clockspeed (damn i hated that) when people who really cared (and would have made the bulk of the purchasing decisions) would have known full well that clockspeed was an unreasonable indicator of performance. and ddr2 turned out to have excrutiatingly little advantage over ddr2 given how much it cost, and the agp bus could handle today's top end dx10 cards with little or no performance hit.
all not good!
Look how many Prescott LGA775 boards couldn't use dual coreQuote:
Originally Posted by DerekFSE
Look how many Dual Core LGA775 boards couldn't use Core2Duo
but I do agree they should have made a midway socket for s939/sAM2
oh well but atleast they are going to do that for AM2, AM2+, and AM3
QFT.Quote:
oh well but atleast they are going to do that for AM2, AM2+, and AM3
they did many mistakes with the move from DDR1 to DDR2, but fortunately the move
from DDR2 to DDR3 will be a lot better for both AMD and it's customers.