I found out why some Ultra-120 Extremes are loose [PIC]

I think I have found out why so many people are having problems with their Ultra-120 Extremes.

Some of them have a missing silicone washer/spacer.:eek:

http://www.pbase.com/davexl/image/79755605/original.jpg

I have bought 3 of these for my new Quadcores, and they have done an unbelievable job, but I have noticed some of them gave variable results and needed remounting. So looking at them I noticed that the mounts are different - both have exactly the same 17mm clearance, but one has a 1mm silcone washer.

The funny thing is that the last one I bought is missing this washer.

Either poor design decision or bad QC, or old stock :down:

This mount needs work, but when it is on right, this thing rocks. :up:

oh great mines doesnt have a washer.....

The one I have has the washer and is still very loose.. I did this little mod and it really helped the temps on my kentsfield.

no wonder this thing wiggles. :D

hmmm i can't even remember, i installed it over a month ago :(

The HS moves because there is nothing to brace it on any of the sides. It is a poor design. Other HS are bolted on which prevent it from rotating.

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Originally Posted by njkid32

The one I have has the washer and is still very loose.. I did this little mod and it really helped the temps on my kentsfield.

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Good thread, and interesting that you have the washer and still had probs.

But I tell you, without the washer... it twists like a hula hoop. :eek:

wow! thats ridiculous!

Ha ha. My washer CAUSED my problems because it was bigger than the clearance hole on the base. I removed it and it totally quit sliding around. That screwhead dropped right into that hole on the top of the heatsink base and I'm good. No kidding.

Well I think what the washer provides is more friction so it makes for less movement. But, if the X bracket isnt set to the right angle it wont allow for the correct amount of pressure. This is why my penny mod worked. Also, with the first attempt at this mod I used a piece of cardboard with gave more friction than the penny did with just about the same amount of pressure. I think when I change cpu's again I'll use an 1/8" rubber washer with a dab of crazy glue on it so it sticks to the X bracket for a more perm aplication.. That should work quite well.

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Originally Posted by njkid32

Well I think what the washer provides is more friction so it makes for less movement. But, if the X bracket isnt set to the right angle it wont allow for the correct amount of pressure.

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Weird. My washer was teflon or something. Super slippery.

Damn that sucks. Perhaps this is one of the reasons so many people have inconsistent results. TR seems like they have some QC issues on those things. Ive seen many pics of ones people bought with unflat bases. Now missing washers as well? Geezz.

I don't have the washer on mine...

@ njkid32 great tip I will give the 1/8" rubber washer a try

In the pics you can see even with the washer the head of the bolt still sticks out so thats not good either.

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

I don't have the washer on mine...

@ njkid32 great tip I will give the 1/8" rubber washer a try

In the pics you can see even with the washer the head of the bolt still sticks out so thats not good either.

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It goes into the bevelled hole in the top of the heatsink - it is not the only point making contact.

Still needs more though..

for a company thats meant to be "the best" its a pretty bad school boy error tbh.

and when it costs so much tbh it should be perfect, for next to nothing more you could get the amanda which is pretty much perfect.

great find davexl. good thing that the missing plastic washer is pretty easy to replace with something else. and no heavy modding is required

Yeah, it is a pain, but hardly the end of the world. And the point is still that you can get world beating temps with this cooler.

I just remounted on a new motherboard, and found a great one - 2 strips thick of gaffer tape on the mounting bracket, then one large patch to cover the whole top of the heatsink base. The shiny sides of the gaffer tape then face each other, and provide a great grip, and the first time I have seen my quadcore temps all within a degree of each other under Prime95 load.

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Originally Posted by davexl

the first time I have seen my quadcore temps all within a degree of each other under Prime95 load.

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Good find. My temps are not even close between Core 0 and Core 2. (4 cores at 100% folding). Hopefully some of the suggestions above will help. To me this mod will be easier to do first than lapping the cpu and heatsink. if the fit isn't tight then I don't imagine lapping will help that much, but that's just my opinion.;)

Those temps seem fairly high ^^^

or am i wrong?

Do you have a fan stuck on that?

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Originally Posted by LethalSmite

Those temps seem fairly high ^^^

or am i wrong?

Do you have a fan stuck on that?

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Yes sure do. Scythe S-FLEX S-FDB 120mm, 1600 Rpm (Push)
I actually backed off the 3100Mhz OC because temps were 60+ under load. This CPU seems to run a lot hotter than the C2D.:)

Yes, those temps are a bit high.. I have a kentsfield at 1.43v (ES B3) idle temps are 39c and loaded temps are 58c since I did my penny mod.

lol his temps are not at all high for 24/7 folding at stock volts on a quad core..

lol, I didnt realize those were his loaded temps:D

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Originally Posted by njkid32

Yes, those temps are a bit high.. I have a kentsfield at 1.43v (ES B3) idle temps are 39c and loaded temps are 58c since I did my penny mod.

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Great temps for that voltage. Are your CPU and heatsink lapped?
Yeah mine is loaded temps but I should have posted a task manger performance screenshot to avoid confusion.:)

The Xeon 3210 is lapped but the U-120 isnt. Its at 400x8 1.43v on a dfi-s. Before I added the penny my temps were all over the place.. Kinda like yours. I had a delta of about 5c between all 4 cores.

Now, when I compare that setup to my Q6600 at 389x9 1.45v 3.5ghz unlapped on a Big Typhoon there is a huge difference. This Q6600 running WCG 24/7 is at about 65c give or take a few degrees.. Depending on the ambient temps. Now, that IHS is pretty flat so I am blaming my high temps on the Big Typhoon.. I think I'll get another one of these U-120's for that as well and while I am at it I'll lap the Q6600.

Here is a before and after.. As you can see my Xeon temps still jump around a bit but this friggen cold down here:rofl: Core 0 is usually the same as core 3 but when I hit printscreen it dropped for some reason it should be as 58c.

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Originally Posted by njkid32

The Xeon 3210 is lapped but the U-120 isnt. Its at 400x8 1.43v on a dfi-s. Before I added the penny my temps were all over the place.. Kinda like yours. I had a delta of about 5c between all 4 cores.

Now, when I compare that setup to my Q6600 at 389x9 1.45v 3.5ghz unlapped on a Big Typhoon there is a huge difference. This Q6600 running WCG 24/7 is at about 65c give or take a few degrees.. Depending on the ambient temps. Now, that IHS is pretty flat so I am blaming my high temps on the Big Typhoon.. I think I'll get another one of these U-120's for that as well and while I am at it I'll lap the Q6600.

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Thanks for the answer. Guess I will run out and get some sandpaper and lap the Q6600, then add the penny. On second thought I think I will practice on my E6600 (Cheaper if I mess up).;)

Why not use layered electrical tape and an exacto knife? Get the exact shape and thickness you want....and it's also pretty high-friction.

That just might work Vapor... I think if TR implemented little metal pieces sticking up to keep the X bracket from twisting like the Big Typhoon has that would solve the twisting problem.. Also, if the X bracket had more of a bent up angle on the 4 arms it would give a little more pressure on the cpu.

Well, I ordered the Ultra 120 Extreme and what I just noticed is that my mounting bracket isn't 'balanced'. It's like.. lopsided. If you don't get what I mean I'll try to take a picture of it but for those who get what I mean, will this pose as a problem?

I noticed this with mine as well.. All I did to solve it was add the penny and just adjust with the 4 screws. If you cant get it totally even then use a thicker shim which will allow you a little more leeway with the screws.

Well let's hope I don't screw up since this will be my first build ever.

Well, thats what XS is for.. You'll find all the answers you need right here. If after you've searched your heart out start a thread asking for help.. Thats what we are here for:D

Sorry for the OT!

To get back on topic, I just gave it a test drive. It's really, really loose. I put a dime under there, and it's like.. still loose.

my U120E has a curve along one of the axis on the base (the part that is in contact with the cpu). is this normal?

According to Thermalright tech support:

"The bracket is designed to bring adequate pressure from heatsink to the cpu IHS. Mount it, check temperature and you'll know.

The one you recieve (without the washer) is actually the new version."

I just got 2 TRUE's and they both don't have the washer.

If that is the new versin, shouldn't we expect a better mount than before??

ineedaname: Is your heatsink loose?

For balancing....tighten the two screws on the bottom bracket all the way, then go for the top bracket screws.

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Originally Posted by MrDisco

The one you recieve (without the washer) is actually the new version."

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Guess I have the old style. It seems odd that they would not include the washer on the newer version unless there are some discreet modifications to the bracket that we are not aware of.:confused: I lapped both my CPU and U-120 yesterday and now it's even easier to twist but the overall temps went down 3-4 degrees under load. I am thinking a 1 inch flat washer with a 1/4" beveled hole might do the trick. Guess I will make one at work tomorrow amd give it a try.:)

i think i must have the newer version cause mine came with no washer. i read about these twisty problems but i haven't experienced anything like it.

the thing is mounted far tighter than seems normal. when installing it i tightened one screw one down (not even close to half-way) and then "try" to screw its diagonal partner down. i had to use extreme force just to get the screw to meet the backplate. i did it on a flat surface so as not to snap the board!

once all 4 screws were on i tightened them all a bit more. definitely not all the way, several threads were still visible ... but the tightness of the whole thing, i dunno it seemed way over the top to me. i guess thats the change they made i'm not sure.

Jobeo: That sounds great. Could you give us some results?

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Originally Posted by Jobeo

i think i must have the newer version cause mine came with no washer. i read about these twisty problems but i haven't experienced anything like it.

the thing is mounted far tighter than seems normal. when installing it i tightened one screw one down (not even close to half-way) and then "try" to screw its diagonal partner down. i had to use extreme force just to get the screw to meet the backplate. i did it on a flat surface so as not to snap the board!

once all 4 screws were on i tightened them all a bit more. definitely not all the way, several threads were still visible ... but the tightness of the whole thing, i dunno it seemed way over the top to me. i guess thats the change they made i'm not sure.

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Mine was pretty tight going on too, I'd imagine they all are

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Originally Posted by introstand

If that is the new versin, shouldn't we expect a better mount than before??

ineedaname: Is your heatsink loose?

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I installed one of the two heatsinks and it is looser than a whore on a night out.

The reason I think it was so loose tho was cuz the screw's bottomed out before the bracket was even tight.

I ended up putting a peice of round foam under the bracket which helped a lot. The round foam is one of the ones u get from a blank dvd spool.

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Originally Posted by ineedaname

I installed one of the two heatsinks and it is looser than a whore on a night out.

The reason I think it was so loose tho was cuz the screw's bottomed out before the bracket was even tight.

I ended up putting a peice of round foam under the bracket which helped a lot. The round foam is one of the ones u get from a blank dvd spool.

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ooo, whats ur temps with the foam under it? i have alot of those foam rings lying around..

Interesting idea, I was worried about using something like that, thinking the heat would affect it but I guess not.

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Originally Posted by ineedaname

I installed one of the two heatsinks and it is looser than a whore on a night out.

The reason I think it was so loose tho was cuz the screw's bottomed out before the bracket was even tight.

I ended up putting a peice of round foam under the bracket which helped a lot. The round foam is one of the ones u get from a blank dvd spool.

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I took a lot of your guy's ideas. ended up going with a washer that has a hole in it so the head of the screw holding the two together can fit down into the block.
Heres the article and some pictures:
http://www.exoid.com/?page_id=94

Just bought an ASUS P5K Deluxe board because my P5W DH would not allow me to OC my Quad past 3100Mhz stable. While switching boards I had to peel off the foam tape on the Ultra 120 backplate so I decided to add thicker denser foam 1/4' wide x 3/8' thick (weather stripping):rofl: which seems to work well and holds it tighter than stock. Only drawback is you have to hold it in place with the spring screws while mounting the Mobo. Still moves but you have to force it. Here are some temps while Folding @ Home for 7 hours.

I used the old ultra 120 bracket that seems to work tight and well...i didnt even tried the original bracket of the extreme but i m now worried if i did wrong..
What do u suggest...is it wrong to use the ultras 120 bracket to extreme? thanks!

If it's tight and your temps are good I wouldn't worry at all what bracket you used.

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Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

If it's tight and your temps are good I wouldn't worry at all what bracket you used.

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It seems to be tight..but my temps are near to 57 c when its full load under orthos and room temperature 28c

I have a c2d 6400@3.00 1.375v
Are these normal temps with 1.375 voltage?

I think that's normal...

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Originally Posted by Prof_Chaos

It seems to be tight..but my temps are near to 57 c when its full load under orthos and room temperature 28c

I have a c2d 6400@3.00 1.375v
Are these normal temps with 1.375 voltage?

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That's great bro. My 6400's@3.20 1.325v and it loads @ 47C orthos large in 25C ambient w/ the 1200RPM SFLEX. I'm pretty sure if my v was bumped a touch more and the room scorching like yours, I'd be pretty close to 60C too.

good find njkid
i will have to go check tonite, gonna be remounting anyway. iam postive it didnt have that washer when i installed it a while bak.

Prolly just do the penny mod, to lazy to go to hardware store for a single rubber washer.

I received my Ultra 120 extreme today no silicon washer but i don't have any wiggle room or movement of my heatsink as mentioned in this thread.

So maybe Thermalright revised and shortened the height of the mounting bracket for LGA775 ? It was pretty hard to mount as is for me - very tight without movement.

Installed on Asus Blitz Formula.

http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/coo...extreme_01.JPG http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/coo...extreme_02.JPG http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/coo...extreme_05.JPG http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/coo...extreme_06.JPG

That's really good to hear eva. Nice to know some of us won't suffer. :D

I wonder if I'd stand a chance w/ RMA since my base has been lapped. I doubt it, but even after lapping my pipes don't get hot...barely warm. And the temps have never really been all that great. :(

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Originally Posted by eva2000

I received my Ultra 120 extreme today no silicon washer but i don't have any wiggle room or movement of my heatsink as mentioned in this thread.

So maybe Thermalright revised and shortened the height of the mounting bracket for LGA775 ? It was pretty hard to mount as is for me - very tight without movement.

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very interesting, I got my TRUE very early, came without a washer but it was crazy loose with the screws all the way in. It would twist 45 degrees with little resistance if I tried to switch fans whilst heatsink installed.

I recently used the mouse mat mod (those freebie plastic coated foam mats) cut up 40x50mm ~5mm thick piece for extra pressure, almost twist proof and a few degrees cooler.

Unless my eyes are playing tricks but your screws look shorter? Must remember take a look at my own ones next time I'm in my case.

Congrats on getting a TRUE with a good mount though :up:

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Originally Posted by LuckyNV

Unless my eyes are playing tricks but your screws look shorter? Must remember take a look at my own ones next time I'm in my case.

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He may of used the 939 screws that were included with it, which could explain some of it :)

I used the longest screws included in the kit as the instruction sheet depicts the LGA775 screws as being longer > http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/coo...me_mx2_05.html :)

Well.... i think it's time to rebuild my rig and install my TRUE. Since my heatsink just arrived today from Newegg, i'm hoping it's the updated version. It didn't come with any extra washer. The only washer is the little one on the X bracket which is under the screw in the center.

Here:

http://www.kalionzes.com/computers/TRUE_bracket.jpg

Well guys.... i just installed the cooler and it fits rock solid. But.... i may lap my CPU and TRUE eventually.... and due to that i may have to add a shim.

Mine is definitely loose. I put a thin washer on it, and it still rotates fairly freely. I've lapped my CPU and the TRUE and I saw some drop in temperature (about 3 degrees) but still running at 46-48 on standard clocks.

I ran a stress test on OCCT yesterday and it was getting up to 70-71.

I am going to try a thicker washer and see if it tightens up at all...

do what I did, get one of those cheap plastic coated foam mouse mats, just cut up a piece, 40x50mm size I think and use that, its awesome :D

I'll give that a shot!

How about this little tidbit from Thermalright's page FAQ:
http://www.thermalright.com/support_default.htm

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I purchased an Ultra-120 eXtreme and I have a Socket 775 motherboard. I’ve bolted down the screws to their tightest and yet the heatsink can still be moved. Why is that? Will that affect the performance of the heatsink?


The Ultra-120 eXtreme works with the new version retention mechanism not having the heatsink-secured-in-place feature but rest assured that it is still well within Intel’s recommended pressure and does not affect performance at all.

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According to them it doesn't make affect performance! I find that a little hard to believe...

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Originally Posted by Andrew LB

Well guys.... i just installed the cooler and it fits rock solid. But.... i may lap my CPU and TRUE eventually.... and due to that i may have to add a shim.

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i've done that and done require a shim :p

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Originally Posted by LuckyNV

do what I did, get one of those cheap plastic coated foam mouse mats, just cut up a piece, 40x50mm size I think and use that, its awesome :D

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I ended up using a Loonie (Canadian dollar coin)

Worked perfectly and the heatsink doesn't move at all... I noticed about 1-2 degrees drop in temps too!