Ati Q3 - Total annihilation against Nvidia

The real counter Nvidia attack

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Sources close to DAAMIT confirmed that the company is about to start a mission called Total annihilation against Nvidia.

R600XT and the RV630 and RV610 are just the beginning and in Q3 ATI will introduce RV670 the Radeon HD 2950 PRO and R650 based Radeon HD 2950XTX and XT cards. This is the time where ATI hopes to really hurt Nvidia.

Q3 starts in July and ends in September and by this time ATI will finally ramp up the production of RV610 and RV630 chips and will have a lot of products to fight Nvidia, including the mobile ones.

The only question is can ATI stick to this timeframe, we hope it can for its own good. Still Nvidia wont be resting and sleeping so you can expect a nice fight at the end of this summer.

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Source

let 'em fight!

prices will go down :fact:

3rd Quarter:confused: So what do ATI do now? It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight!

I think total annihilation first requires a product that beats the competition, which R600 is not looking like.

AMD has gotten amazingly c0cky lately considering their position in the performance race.

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Originally Posted by Kanten

I think total annihilation first requires a product that beats the competition, which R600 is not looking like.

AMD has gotten amazingly c0cky lately considering their position in the performance race.

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With good reason, when you think about quad cores, and the octo cores. How is intel gonna be able to keep up with hyper transport and an intergrated memory controller. A fsb can only go so far.

Now on the gpu front they have added lots of cool features. Even though its not a gtx, its not like nvidia hasn't been in the less performance boat on top end cards before.

The gtx was a huge jump from previous generations. Ex. 9800 pro vs FX 5700

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Originally Posted by Kanten

I think total annihilation first requires a product that beats the competition, which R600 is not looking like.

AMD has gotten amazingly c0cky lately considering their position in the performance race.

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QFT

This is all just boring :banana::banana::banana::banana: talking. :yawn2:

total rubbish more like it. yet another attempt at getting a little mindshare back.

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Originally Posted by EternityZX9

QFT

This is all just boring :banana::banana::banana::banana: talking. :yawn2:

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haha, nothing wrong with competition. If they just give up like many seem to want, expect 8800GTX die shinks for the next 3 years before getting a large performance improvement again.

Total Annihilation was my favorite RTS game. Actually I haven't played much since so it's still is :p:

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Originally Posted by gdogg

With good reason, when you think about quad cores, and the octo cores. How is intel gonna be able to keep up with hyper transport and an intergrated memory controller. A fsb can only go so far.

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Advanced prefetching and a good cache are much more important. AMD chose an MC above a better prefetch for one reason only: R&D cost. Intel could very soon use an MC and a better bus technology as they are relatively cheap to develop, they haven't done it yet because they hardly add performance even with the quad cores.

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Now on the gpu front they have added lots of cool features. Even though its not a gtx, its not like nvidia hasn't been in the less performance boat on top end cards before.

The gtx was a huge jump from previous generations. Ex. 9800 pro vs FX 5700

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Very very true. I hear a lot of people complain about the 8800U specs. It's just that people don't see what an achievement the 8800GTS and 8800GTX really are. There isn't much improvement possible, as there isn't much to tweak for yet (hint: very few DX10 games). Just ramping up the vcore isn't really a possibility. The G80 is an example of the 90nm process pushed to the limed; just the physical size of it is simply amazing for any micro processor.

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Originally Posted by alexio

Advanced prefetching and a good cache are much more important. AMD chose an MC above a better prefetch for one reason only: R&D cost. Intel could very soon use an MC and a better bus technology as they are relatively cheap to develop, they haven't done it yet because they hardly add performance even with the quad cores.


Very very true. I hear a lot of people complain about the 8800U specs. It's just that people don't see what an achievement the 8800GTS and 8800GTX really are. There isn't much improvement possible, as there isn't much to tweak for yet (hint: very few DX10 games). Just ramping up the vcore isn't really a possibility. The G80 is an example of the 90nm process pushed to the limed; just the physical size of it is simply amazing for any micro processor.

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Yah, 8800 gtx was a huge achievement.

About the processors, cache does help, but under load it is noticeable to me, that the 3.6Ghz 1600Mhz fsb , e6600 c2d with ddr2 1000mhz 5-4-4-9 2X1Gb just is bogged down compared to a opteron 165 939 @ 2.6Ghz with ddr 530 2-2-2-5 2X512MB.

Especially when running prime 95, the opteron is just so much more responsive.

Another reason for the IMC was to cut down on errors caused by the memory controller making it easier for consumers and motherboard manufacturers alike.

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Originally Posted by Face

Total Annihilation was my favorite RTS game. Actually I haven't played much since so it's still is :p:

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QFT, it's a gaming great that is greatly underappreciated.

They should have titled it "This Means War" which was a bit of a damp squib just like being late to the market is for AMD.

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

3rd Quarter:confused: So what do ATI do now? It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight!

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heh.. reminds me of that part in DeathProof (Grindhouse)

"you know what happens to people who carry knives?!?? they get shot!!"

;)

The more competition the better but I do suggest that nVidia fix that fu ck up that nVidia calls CUDA

:rofl: they won't even have the XTX out with the rest if the cards, so ATI has already broken the promise that they made of having the whole r6xx launched together.

Gotta love competition, finally...Nvidia takes over for a few months while ATI fumbles a little and all of a sudden Nvidia thinks it's ok to release an $830 graphics card. Now if we only had someone that could compete with microsoft...

Let the price (and performance maybe?) wars begin :D

Let them sucker punch each other on prices. Papa needs another 8800.

like nvidia is going to stay and do nothing

omg i don't know, i don't know...
x2950pro vs x2900xt?

>.<

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Originally Posted by metro.cl

like nvidia is going to stay and do nothing

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lol maybe they are hoping nvidia would heheh

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Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

Let the price (and performance maybe?) wars begin :D

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amen!

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

3rd Quarter:confused: So what do ATI do now? It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight!

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lol:D

What is the price of a x2600xt? And how will it perform? If it's a match to a x1900xt for $120 they have a real winner. That's what I want for a HTPC that can play games too.

Wow, total annihilation are big words considering the R600 hasn't even reached the market yet and it's Q2. Fat chance.

yea .. or nay ... HD2950XTX .. that better be fast cuz i really wanna switch to ATI for once ... so i can do CF on X38 and use ATI Tool's voltage control.. something nvidia cards cant .. u gotta flash bios ... and it doesnt change vGPU ... tried nbitor and nvflash

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

3rd Quarter:confused: So what do ATI do now? It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight!

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it worked for him.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LLqEWDo1V...elated&search=

Fudzilla....

I think that in DX10 games a R600 will slaughter a G80...
Too bad there aren't any DX10 benches

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Originally Posted by GoThr3k

I think that in DX10 games a R600 will slaughter a G80...
Too bad there aren't any DX10 benches

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So how would you know without benches :rolleyes:

Why does it always seem that Ati's 'Next' graphics card will always be the biggest and best, yet at the time you can actually buy them theres always a better alternative?

Its not since the 9800 that ati have had the lead.

6800>x850

7900 was roughly equivilent to x1900, but was cooler, quieter, and had the gx2 if you really wanted performance, plus he 7800 was avaliable way before the x1800, so the family had a head start there as well (I still went the Ati route though)

8800>hd2900 (and the ati alternative is six months behind the nvidia offering)

Ati's main problem is that they are perpetually behind nvidia in their release timescale, they really need to speed up their time to market - hopefully the tie up with AMD will help them here.

r650 will be up against g90 so any theories as to performance lead is unknown

And when it comes to features you don't buy a product that will start to show an architectural advantage 12 months down the line, but is slower than the rival products for the present and immediate future. Just look at how P4's are now outperforming A64 chips thanks to developers optimising for a multithreaded environment. People still bough a64's because at the time they were the better chip.

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Originally Posted by onewingedangel

Why does it always seem that Ati's 'Next' graphics card will always be the biggest and best, yet at the time you can actually buy them theres always a better alternative?

Its not since the 9800 that ati have had the lead.

6800>x850

7900 was roughly equivilent to x1900, but was cooler, quieter, and had the gx2 if you really wanted performance, plus he 7800 was avaliable way before the x1800, so the family had a head start there as well (I still went the Ati route though)

8800>hd2900 (and the ati alternative is six months behind the nvidia offering)


Ati's main problem is that they are perpetually behind nvidia in their release timescale, they really need to speed up their time to market - hopefully the tie up with AMD will help them here.

r650 will be up against g90 so any theories as to performance lead is unknown

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I'd have to disagree on some of that...
6800=X800
X850>6800
X1800=7800
X1900>7900
This is of course purely performance wise...
That's how I see it :)

Best Regards :toast:

Put a big warning sign at your header news when posting article coming from FUD and INQ. You'll make a good service to forumers if you do this, this is just all crappy blabberings "news" (duh) posting...

GIMME GIMME GIMME !!
THERE'S AN ITCH IN MY TUMMMMY,
I NEED THE PRO RIGHT AWAYYYY !!!

GIMME GIMME GIMME !!
I DON'T MIND IF ITS CRUMMMMY,
3DMARK'S WHAT I'M GONNA PLAYYYY !!

:p

Perkam

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Originally Posted by death metal

Put a big warning sign at your header news when posting article coming from FUD and INQ. You'll make a good service to forumers if you do this, this is just all crappy blabberings "news" (duh) posting...

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Why? people can decide for themselves if they want to believe it. it's a lot more entertaining that way.

NVidia has announced its "Supreme Commander Initiative" to counter AMD's strike.

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Originally Posted by DTU_XaVier

I'd have to disagree on some of that...
6800=X800
X850>6800
X1800=7800
X1900>7900
This is of course purely performance wise...
That's how I see it :)

Best Regards :toast:

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you dont consider timeframes, NVIDIA has delivered a lot earlier in all of those cards.

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Originally Posted by MarlboroMan

let 'em fight!

prices will go down :fact:

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ATI and Nvidia have been fighting practically 1v1 for what the last 7 or 8 years and graphics cards cost as much if not more than they ever have.

Why in the world do people keep thinking prices will go down? I mean honestly, where is this coming from?

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Originally Posted by falqon

ATI and Nvidia have been fighting practically 1v1 for what the last 7 or 8 years and graphics cards cost as much if not more than they ever have.

Why in the world do people keep thinking prices will go down? I mean honestly, where is this coming from?

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This is true, I mean look at the 8800Ultra $800 is Fing rediculous!
I see prices going up if anything not down, especially when DX10 software and games become more abundant.

Is it to much to ask to have a kickass DX10 card that draws only 150 watts? I mean, this is ridiculous!

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Originally Posted by falqon

ATI and Nvidia have been fighting practically 1v1 for what the last 7 or 8 years and graphics cards cost as much if not more than they ever have.

Why in the world do people keep thinking prices will go down? I mean honestly, where is this coming from?

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prices go down, but they can't start selling everything at a loss now can they.

Just the gddr3 on these cards has gotten to ring in a pretty penny.

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Originally Posted by metro.cl

you dont consider timeframes, NVIDIA has delivered a lot earlier in all of those cards.

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not only that but supply in general.

the 6800 and X800 were both hard to get at start (low supply).
then ATi spend time on a speed bump called the X850 wich resulted in the fact that both the x800XT and X850XT were very hard tog et cause supply was low.
Nvidia concetrated on increasing supply of the 6800.
So even tho the 6800 was slower then the x850, nvidia was able to supply good amounts of 6800GTs were ATI failed to meet the demand on the X850XT for months.

With the the X1800 came months (3 or 4) after the 7800, and the X1800 had huge supply issues for the first month or 2.

the 8800 vs the 2900 will be history repeating.
When the 2900 is buyable world wide the 8800 will have been on the market atleast for 5 or 6 months?

So even if the 2900 were faster then the 8800 what kills them all the time is having their card on the market on time and supply.

ATI humiliated Nvidia with the radeon 9700 and 9800. But they failed to continue this. Nvidia didnt always have the fastest card but they had their stuff on the market before ATI did and made good money doing so.

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Originally Posted by Order

NVidia has announced its "Supreme Commander Initiative" to counter AMD's strike.

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Email that headline to fud or inq. I'm pretty sure they can come up with a good story.:woot:

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Originally Posted by Shintai

So how would you know without benches :rolleyes:

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by looking at the architecture,it should beat nvidia in dx10
i am not saying it will,depends on drivers etc,but it should be capable

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Originally Posted by GoThr3k

by looking at the architecture,it should beat nvidia in dx10
i am not saying it will,depends on drivers etc,but it should be capable

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Maybe you can explain why?

And before you might say 320 steam processors. Remember AMD actually only got 64 4+1@750Mhz, while nVidia got 128 1+1 at 1.35Ghz or so.

AMD's culture has finally spread to ATI. ATI is usually more conservative with their claims. I wanna see them back track on those words.

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Originally Posted by Haltech

Is it to much to ask to have a kickass DX10 card that draws only 150 watts? I mean, this is ridiculous!

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Ha ha, wait until you see the next gen cards after this. 300W baby :slapass:

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Originally Posted by DTU_XaVier

X1900>7900

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If you had said synthetic benchmarks and some games I would agree.

For me 7900 was better overall.

To ATI: less talk and more work.

To Nvidia: be original and rip customers off more, thanks.

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Originally Posted by ahmad

To ATI: less talk and more work.

To Nvidia: be original and rip off less, thanks.

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Edited :)

It was a bit weird putting a valid statement with a sarcastic one, but yours looks good too.

Bla bla bla...:yawn2:

Talk is cheap!

At the rate ATi/AMD are going they are not going to have much money left to invest to make new products. Especially if they keep releasing things months after the opposition, esp when the product isn't much better than the competition.

(e.g. R600 over half a year after G80, nVidia isn't just gonna sit around for those 6 months and it has more money to invest from the G80s into G90. Or AMDs K10 coming out a year after the Core2Duo, when the Core2Duos are due for refresh and Penryns are going into full production.)

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Originally Posted by TheMonk

At the rate ATi/AMD are going they are not going to have much money left to invest to make new products. Especially if they keep releasing things months after the opposition, esp when the product isn't much better than the competition.

(e.g. R600 over half a year after G80, nVidia isn't just gonna sit around for those 6 months and it has more money to invest from the G80s into G90. Or AMDs K10 coming out a year after the Core2Duo, when the Core2Duos are due for refresh and Penryns are going into full production.)

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Amd has my money, I bought a rushed 680i and I will never be buying nvidia again, unless I get screwed by amd as bad that is.

Performance isn't everything, customer support, and products doing what they are advertised to do is far more important.