Help finalise my $8000 WC build !

Hi Guys,

Well after weeks and weeks of reading these forums I think I am finally about ready to buy in the bits (the Mountain Mods Horizon case is already ordered a few weeks ago but as its a custom paint job it may take a while).

Essentially is a dual loop design with a offshoot loop for the ram. I am a little unsure on the correct pump choice so please jump in. I will of course start a build thread as soon as the case gets to the UK.

I hope this image shows up ok. If it needs resizing let me know.
http://www.chrispurves.com/gallery/m.../newpc_001.jpg


Thanks
Chris

The pic took some time to show up

but OMFG, this is one Ultra extreme PC u planning :eek: :eek:

I dont think u need any further help finalising the build, since everything u listed here is top quality n top notched. so i think there isnt any room for improvement.

Are you sure you want an Enermax Galaxy over a PC Power and Cooling 1kW-SR? I personally believe that a PCP&C is a better PSU.

How long of a wait are you expecting from Mountain Mods ? Perhaps yours is just paint, because they've sent a couple of us e-mails saying that our custom cases are on hold. The wait period is obnoxious.

Ian - I'm not sure you can get PC P&C in the UK ? And if I import you have the 240v vs 110v issues although it may simply be a switch on the back.

Do people generally go with the DCC-1 or DCC-2 pumps these days. I saw a post comparing the 2 and it seemed to suggest the 2 variety. Then again you have the question of what top to use too.

Ta
Chris

Vista 32 bit? Mate you might as well just get the 64 bit edition. Drivers aren't a problem anymore! Other than that I can't see anything that stands out as needing to be changed. Although I think you will definitely need some more tubing!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXceededgoku

Vista 32 bit? Mate you might as well just get the 64 bit edition. Drivers aren't a problem anymore! Other than that I can't see anything that stands out as needing to be changed. Although I think you will definitely need some more tubing!

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dunno for shure but i believe that with Ultimate u get both 32 and 64 bit.

seeing ul make 2 loops i agree u should add some more tubing just incase.

More tubing it is ...... go on someone comment on the pump choice! Oh and on 64 bit - I read it only really helps for security and on the downside it means you cannot run some legacy apps as they rely on the 32bit subsystem or something like that. Will try and dig up the link.

Chris

can i suggest waiting for 10 more days so you can catch the intel's price cut which then you can get a quad core for less than the cost fo 6700

or atleast buy the 6700 for much less

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Ian - I'm not sure you can get PC P&C in the UK ? And if I import you have the 240v vs 110v issues although it may simply be a switch on the back.

Do people generally go with the DCC-1 or DCC-2 pumps these days. I saw a post comparing the 2 and it seemed to suggest the 2 variety. Then again you have the question of what top to use too.

Ta
Chris

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Send an e-mail to intlsales@pcpower.com

They manufacture the highest quality power supplies. They should be auto switching, and the 240v issue should be moot.

How long of a wait do you have with Mountain Mods ? Its becoming an issue with all of us who want custom cases, although from what I understand, you want just custom paint.

The Enermax isn't a bad choice and will handle your system fine. The owner of this site uses that PSU.

Thanks for the replies guys.

The largest cost of that power supply will be the postage as I imagine its not light! Will give thema shout though.


As for mountain mods - placed the order (and paid) 3-4 weeks ago. They said it should take around 6 weeks at their end to get done - most of the time is ordering the paint in apparently.

And now you have told me I will certainly wait although I wonder how quickly price cuts feed into the retail channel. I was gonna start buying some of the wc bits now - especially the ones from the states but can easily hold off on the rest as its mostly UK suppliers.

I would love to hold out for the next gen graphics but I just can't be bothered. As you can see though I am going with evga so I can step up!

Chris

how many loops is this?

Im assuming its a dual loop system due to the 2 radiators, and indpendant second pump?

if your plumbing this for a single loop dual pump system, it wont work.

Your mixing pumps, i believe, the koolance uses DDC-1 while the petra pump is a DDC-2

You might break your DDC-2. Ive seen cases of this happening.


If its a multi loop system, then ummmm, looks like it will be a monster.

But i ask why koolance???

get yourself a second 500gb hdd drive and use it just for backup. going one data drive is stupid even for a cheap build, let alone this baby!

Why do I have a problem with a PC that costs more than my Durango?

Pick up a Sky Jacker lift kit for it..or a remote starter kit..

Sorry that Koolance should be deleted - it was there initially for the ram only but the F connecters from petras sort that. Its a sual loop system, 1 pump per loop.

As for back - can add an extra data drive but have 2 raid systems already upstairs which backup all the other pcs.

Chris

Enermax Galaxy was the top rated PSU in Custom PC. Their PSU reviews seem fairly decent. Regardless, it's a decent PSU.

As for your pump, make sure you pick the 18w DDC pump. Naming conventions seem to vary, but you can have a DDC-1 10w pump with Petra top. You want the more powerful 18w one, sometimes called DDC-2 or the ultra or mcp355 etc (I've lost track of the different names)

Yeh I saw that custom pc review too - thats why a chose it. I will make sure I order the 18w ones.

Ta
Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Yeh I saw that custom pc review too - thats why a chose it. I will make sure I order the 18w ones.

Ta
Chris

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The custom pc reviews are a joke!:mad: Did anyone notice that the scores have pretty much no relation to how good the psu was (ie. the psu has 3 rails that failed under load and still scores 90 odd % for stability) Also, no offence to Enermax but at the start it says that they are testing using enermax's facility and then on the last page all 3 of their psus are reccommended:nono:

I would foget the WD caviar aswell and go with a seagate 500gig. Get a better board than the striker, don't get 4gbs of ram and get XP 32bit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bigchrome

I would foget the WD caviar aswell and go with a seagate 500gig. Get a better board than the striker, don't get 4gbs of ram and get XP 32bit.

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HAHA you made me laugh!
"Don't get lots of RAM and don't get a newer/more stable and faster OS"
Although I agree with the Seagate 500gig ;)

Hi,

Always had seagates is the past - was just matching the brand to the other 2 raptors. As for OS and ram. I have loads of coipies of xp around - was gonna start with it anyway as no gtx drivers as far as I know (no stable ones that is).

As for the ram - why 2gb rather than 4gb ?

Finally the board - didn;t think there was a better board for quad cpu out there? Is there one ?

Ta

Chris

Look into Iwaki pumps. They are fully rebuildable and you can get several different types of impeller to suit your application, High flow or High head. They run off AC. Take a look at an MD-20RZ. http://www.iwakipumps.jp/e_products/...D_E0015_11.pdf

:welcome:

Nice build you have going. :toast: :toast:

Have you considered an Iwaki "RD" series pump? They are bullet proof and will be there when the cows come home. The jury IMO is still out on the DDC series pumps.

Just trying to find some info and suppliers on the Iwaki "RD" right now. They are AC right so I would need a PCI card or something to turn them on off ? Or a relay triggered by the PSU ?

Ta
C

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Just trying to find some info and suppliers on the Iwaki "RD" right now. They are AC right so I would need a PCI card or something to turn them on off ? Or a relay triggered by the PSU ?

Ta
C

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Petra's Tech Shop is looking into carrying them. They are 24vdc so a power converter is needed such as a Meanwell power supply. Petra is talking about getting some lower cost 12vdc > 18vdc converters for this purpose.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=139489

Thanks for the link - at least the MM horizon has 2 PSU areas - would need one for the PSU's for these guys I guess.

Chris

Nice build list, I would second the opinion on the PC Power&cooling 1KW supply over the enermax having owned both the PC power&cooling one seems to put out more currant at higher efficiency (lower psu temps). And would second the opinion to replace the 500GB WD drive w/ a 750GB Seagate.

If you have any left-over money the HP LP3065 30" LCD monitor is sweet (best purchase I made in the past 6 months. :) )

I am taking a slightly different route on the monitor front. My work have been kind enough to provide me with 3 (just got the 3rd) 19" NEC Multisync LCD1980FXi monitors at home.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=139981

Gonna get one of these

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gx...gital/home.php

and run the GTX's in SLI to power them. Well thats my plan anyway. I hope I can run them at 3840 x 1024 res in SLI.

So now I need a UK supplier for that power supply! (If they exist) failing that its the galaxy.

Ta
Chris

If you were to replace your PSU, get a Silverstone ST85ZF. Much better and alot cheaper.

Now do you really want watercooled ram

Are you planning on running a seperate 1/4" loop

if not Id say scrap it and get some of that team ram with the big heatsinks and the D9GKX ic's

On the topic of ram, will wc it off the first or second loop using the swiftech f-type ram splitters here

http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-F-F...2-pr-3600.html

http://www.jab-tech.com/product_imag...ils/t_3600.jpg

picture in use here (near the bottom of the first page)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=137865&page=1

Think those will work ok

Chris

Pumps:

Is the IWAKI MD 30 R any good ?

Ignore this - just found the thread about the ammount of heat it dumps in the water - shame as they are on ebay for 80$


Ta
Chris

this is totaly off topic but dont get that samsung burner.. I just purchased one for my GF's build and it sucks nuts.

HEre is why
1. takes forever to recognize media
2. slower than molasis in antartica when reading media (that includes retail disks)

as far as burning goes its just fine. but for reading anything its horrid.

I would suggest the Lite on drive that is so popular on CD-Freaks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

this is totaly off topic but dont get that samsung burner.. I just purchased one for my GF's build and it sucks nuts.

HEre is why
1. takes forever to recognize media
2. slower than molasis in antartica when reading media (that includes retail disks)

as far as burning goes its just fine. but for reading anything its horrid.

I would suggest the Lite on drive that is so popular on CD-Freaks.

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My LG burner has been real good so far.

GSA-H10N

That is going to be an amazing system. I like Enermax as a psu company, but since you are going to spend that much on a system like that you might as well get the Turbo-Cool 1kw from PC P& Cooling like Iany recommended if possible.

http://www.pcpower.com/products/view...WSR&view=about

NEC imho is the best bang for buck in dvd burners

From looking at this ordering page at the official PC P & Cooling website, I think it's possible to get one to the UK. At the bottom of the page it has an option for international shipping, check it out.

https://secure2.pcpowercooling.com/c...corderform.cgi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaFrOuT

NEC imho is the best bang for buck in dvd burners

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they discontinued their best models (cant remember the model number atm) and now their current top end drives arent so great. If they hadnt discontinued them, I would have gotten the NEC.

Its wildly overpriced, but if you want quality and are spending that much anyway, you should look to no less than Plextor for opticals. Be advised that they cost up to four times as much as any other brand. I swear by them.

Another way to waste money is to upgrade that sound card to a 116 db s/n Elite Pro. Its really better than all other X-Fis (which are all 109 db models). That's another $250 of unnecessary expenditure, but the sound output is so incredibly clean and distortion free (even over the other X-Fi models.. and the only one I don't have is a Platinum) :)

When you remove the Striker's heatpipes, make sure you have something under you to support the heatpipes as you pinch the tabs one by one. The heatpipes are a bit heavy and can put stress on the mobo. Every tab has to be loosened before the heatpipe finally falls off completely. Make sure your mobo doesn't bend. Its a great mobo, but don't rush into the o/c right away. Play with the bios settings one at a time till you find your optimal settings. A single setting can cause your overclock to go haywire.

On the Apogee GTX, make sure you find yourself a good backplate. It makes the bowing all the much better and you will attain a higher overclock and the mounting will be safe. I initially used the ThermalRight, which was OK, till I was given a hint to try the Scythe. The Scythe backplate is fantastic. When you tighten down the GTX, make sure its criss cross and really progressive because if you muck it up, the contact will not be optimal.

Orientation on the GTX shouldn't matter, especially on a Kentsfield, but I'm partial to the inlet being above the outlet. Since you are using a Horizon case, the mobo tray is horizontal to the ground anyway, so it really doesn't matter. If you really want to use stainless steel worm clamps (and I suggest that you do not) be careful about how tight you have them, even on metal barbs. Watch the crimping of the tubes.

Best of luck on your overclock. I'm rooting for you to achieve 4.0 Ghz. I haven't managed to get to 4 Ghz. I'm at 3.8 Ghz and 1.45v (1.5v in bios because of the infamous 680i voltage drop off) and the system serves me well.

I'm a dangerous guy. If you want someone to spend your money, ask me :D

Ian - great advice. On the soundcard I have been reading some interesting articles that suggest vista kinda makes sound card hardware irrelevant. Sounds odd to me though. In the past I have had RME digi 96 cards which was fantastic. Had it into Meridian surround amp / speakers. Just amazing.

Thankfully on the optical drive its an easy thing to rip out and replace. At 20$ a pop you can try a few!

The bit I seem to know least about is the pump it seems. I thought I had that decision made but now it seems people are running much more powerful pumps or pumps in series. More research required clearly.

Thanks again everyone for the input ! Can't remember ifI said but I have asked MM to change the back panel to fit the 120.2. Seems crazy not to.

:)

C

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Ian - great advice. On the soundcard I have been reading some interesting articles that suggest vista kinda makes sound card hardware irrelevant. Sounds odd to me though. In the past I have had RME digi 96 cards which was fantastic. Had it into Meridian surround amp / speakers. Just amazing.

Thankfully on the optical drive its an easy thing to rip out and replace. At 20$ a pop you can try a few!

The bit I seem to know least about is the pump it seems. I thought I had that decision made but now it seems people are running much more powerful pumps or pumps in series. More research required clearly.

Thanks again everyone for the input ! Can't remember ifI said but I have asked MM to change the back panel to fit the 120.2. Seems crazy not to.

:)

C

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Vista doesn't make sound cards irrelevant. Dedicated sound cards will be better than onboard sound. Vista just requires sound card makers to rewrite their drivers in order to interact with the new way the stacks are called. Just like how Nvidia's drivers are absolute crap right now, once drivers are rewritten things should be even better. If you notice with Vista, you can set the sound level of all the applications different from each other.


In any case, Plextor is the best but they no longer make drives (at least not here over in the states). Their 760A was probably the best drive I've ever owned. I also own a Samsung. It writes better than most drives, but it's absolutely right that their reading capabilities AND ripping capabilities blow. The Lite-On drive seems mediocre to me so I'm anxious to hear why someone mentioned that CD-Freaks were raving about it. The Asus drive is fantastic for the past week I've been using it. I've gone through so many dvd writers trying to find one to replace my old sata plextor 716A but I still haven't found one I like as much as it. However, I need a SATA drive that has lightscribe so I'm still forced to upgrade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

The Scythe backplate is fantastic. When you tighten down the GTX, make sure its criss cross and really progressive because if you muck it up, the contact will not be optimal.

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Where do I get a Scythe backplate? Do they sell it by itself?

Isn't this a little overkill..? What will this pc be used for?
Anyway it's a great setup, but wait for the Intel price-drop and maybye change the QX6700 for a QX6800 :D

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...k1_detail.html

Its a bit overkill to have to buy the whole kittle-kabottle, but look at how beefy the backplate is. I'm not sure you can buy the 775 model by itself.

From what epion told me, the MD30 is monstrously huge, you want the RD30 because it is much more compact, and voltage adjustable (for power consumption, noise, etc. you can tweak it).
Now since you have all that cool stuff, why not do 3 loops hehe? One loop for CPU, one loop for graphics, one loop for miscellaneous stuff?
Oh and btw, if you want to use wyes, do it on the rads. Use the wye to split the flow to 2 rads, then join the outputs together.

for the love of god dont put an ac aquatube in that loop! the appogee gtx with the annodised al top is bad enough! if u do go thru with it and get it then pls get some uber corrosion inhibitor....

since u asked for constructive critisizm and all ive done is :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: (>< ) ...
yah look into the rd30 with a meanwell power supply. The pump is mind blowingly good and bulletproof. another plus for the iwaki is that in the cube case, just like the lianli v2000, there are an imense number of places u could fix the pump's power supply :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nattoNrice

for the love of god dont put an ac aquatube in that loop! the appogee gtx with the annodised al top is bad enough! if u do go thru with it and get it then pls get some uber corrosion inhibitor....

since u asked for constructive critisizm and all ive done is :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: (>< ) ...
yah look into the rd30 with a meanwell power supply. The pump is mind blowingly good and bulletproof. another plus for the iwaki is that in the cube case, just like the lianli v2000, there are an imense number of places u could fix the pump's power supply :)

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Um, its PLATED ALUMINUM...
And petra is going to stock RD pumps and voltage converting thingies soon, I hope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soccerswim8

RD pumps are no way in heck worth the money IMO. its like a whole great setup for that one pump's price

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Uh, you sure? All iwaki pumps are extremely high quality, good motor efficiency, teflon bearings, teflon coated whatever everywhere, reliable...you just need to know where to look for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soccerswim8

arent they like 250+ a pump?

thats ridicule IMO

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Ridiculous? Hell no, lots of applications need a reliable pump of good quality such as the iwakis. If you're resourceful you can find them cheaper than that...

Who said an expensive pump watercooling was necessary?
Performance is first if you have the money to spend. People with 8000 dollar computers could care less about 200 extra.

yeah i have both the rd30 and ddc2 and i just dont feel confortable walking out of the house with my rig folding when useing the ddc2. the rd30 is the most awesome pump ive ever had the pleasure using however my advice is to get a dedicated power supply. the rd30 has a large current draw at start up that would make me feel uneasy having it on a normal psu.

edit: yeah my mistake, plated al... either way on the off chance there is an error in plating, even a micron across, just scares me :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nattoNrice

yeah i have both the rd30 and ddc2 and i just dont feel confortable walking out of the house with my rig folding when useing the ddc2. the rd30 is the most awesome pump ive ever had the pleasure using however my advice is to get a dedicated power supply. the rd30 has a large current draw at start up that would make me feel uneasy having it on a normal psu.

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You must use it with a 24V power supply, computer PSUs only provide 12v... that's why petra talked to some company about producing a power switch or something that converts 12V DC from the PSU of your computer to 24V.

yah i realise this! thats y i said a meanwell powersupply in my first post! hence my comment about connecting it to a normal psu (thru a step up).

Firstly - I do care about the money :banana: I just wanted a rig that would last for a while and when I come to upgrade it should be a fairly easy process too.:D I specced this up on Vadim and it came in at 11,000$ for the same kit so I think building it myself makes a lot of sense and on top it will be wicked fun (let alone the overclocking potential of this rig). I spent a summer 2 years ago building my own full size 'mame' arcade machine from scratch. Again great fun and massive sense of achievement when it was done! It even had a rotating monitor but thats another story and well off topic.

Right, to answer some of the posts.

I can see why the iwaki would make sense given I imagine it has fantastic reliability. As someone said, pond pumps work in terrible conditions and seem to keep on going for years without compaint although that would probably be their ac models to be fair. The 18W DCC's are working out around 150$ each if you buy them in the UK - not so different to the iwaki's.

Aquatube - OMG is it really made for aluminium ? Eeek looked so good too :( Ah well back to the drawing board on the reservoir. Wanted something with a jet that could be lit for the bling factor. I especially wanted something I could mount in 2 of the 4 80mm fan holes on top of the horizon. Thought the lighted jets would look great from above.

As I said the dvd is not really a biggie for me. I burn one dvd a month if that. Its more for loading drivers/packages on really.

Thanks again for all the comments. Very welcome and keep them coming!

Big things to decide upon are the pumps and the reservoirs it seems.

Oh and mountain modes wrote back to say if I wanted the 120.2 mod on the back it would be a number of weeks if it hadn't already gone to painting which it probably has.

Ta
Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Aquatube - OMG is it really made for aluminium ? Eeek looked so good too :( Ah well back to the drawing board on the reservoir. Wanted something with a jet that could be lit for the bling factor. I especially wanted something I could mount in 2 of the 4 80mm fan holes on top of the horizon. Thought the lighted jets would look great from above.

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yah it is al which suxs nuts.
Check out the ek res it is very cool! i think it has a more high tech bling then the aquatube.

You got a link to the EK res you mean?

Ta
C

http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/index....c5f8243f271ad7
There are UK retailers but I'm not sure what they are.

its the same guy ur getting ur 8800gtx block off!
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/index....dc4c60fb680376

edit: lol@ serial! posting same answer at the same time ftw :)

Thanks for the links - no jets though :(

And Ian ...

>>If you really want to use stainless steel worm clamps (and I suggest that you do not) be careful about how tight you have them, even on metal barbs. Watch the crimping of the tubes.

Do you advocate the plastic clips (use those on my garden watering system and they seem ok - tube thicker though)

Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Thanks for the links - no jets though :(

And Ian ...

>>If you really want to use stainless steel worm clamps (and I suggest that you do not) be careful about how tight you have them, even on metal barbs. Watch the crimping of the tubes.

Do you advocate the plastic clips (use those on my garden watering system and they seem ok - tube thicker though)

Chris

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Uh, no blocks use jets these days...and definitely no GPU block does.
They are cool but...

I meant the res jets ... you an get a nice effect with a jet and lighting in the res .

chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

I meant the res jets ... you an get a nice effect with a jet and lighting in the res .

chris

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Uh, that's a bad thing...last thing you want is restriction from...the RES OMFGPWNBBQSAUCE (sorry I copied you incorrectly nikhsub). BUT, you get a nice swirling effect with a strong pump :D

Ah yes good point well made ..... hmm just have to work out where to put em. I wonder if I could poke em out of the 80mm holes on top - would rather spoil the lines of the mm case though - perhaps not. Oh well will see where they fit. Maybe I can bling em with a LED :)

So many choices ......

Right off to ride the road bike for a couple of hours round Richmond Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Park..... such a nice day.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-_02102005.jpg

Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Ah yes good point well made ..... hmm just have to work out where to put em. I wonder if I could poke em out of the 80mm holes on top - would rather spoil the lines of the mm case though - perhaps not. Oh well will see where they fit. Maybe I can bling em with a LED :)

So many choices ......

Right off to ride the road bike for a couple of hours round Richmond Park ..... such a nice day.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-_02102005.jpg

Chris

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Bling? hehehe we love that here. A UV CCFL or something will illuminate it all right :)

@chris: send an email and ask petra If he can ship you a pcpower together with the cooling stuff. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phcjpp

Thanks for the links - no jets though :(

And Ian ...

>>If you really want to use stainless steel worm clamps (and I suggest that you do not) be careful about how tight you have them, even on metal barbs. Watch the crimping of the tubes.

Do you advocate the plastic clips (use those on my garden watering system and they seem ok - tube thicker though)

Chris

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I can only speak for myself. My views may not, and are probably not, reflective of the majority of people on here. I refuse to use stainless steel worm clips and i try to avoid using metal barbs. I like plastic nylon hose clamps.

Its all up to you. Its your machine.

BTW, I'm a road cyclist myself :)

Well if you are living in the UK you just had a fantastic day of summer weather!

I only went with the steel ones because they looked the safest. Seems they may not be the most sensible for thin walled tubes though. Certainly the ones in the garden haven't come off and thats mains pressure.

Will give Petra a shout about the power supply - you never know - also waiting to hear on the iwaki pumps too - could be quite a petra order.

Thanks again guys - keep the comments coming. Hopefully get that Petra order off this week.:)

Chris

Just to tie this thread off - the link to the build thread is here.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=144315

Ta

Chris

Vista 32bit can not utilize more than a little over 3GB of RAM. Get 64bit, seriously. Been using it for a few months, and there's absolutely no problems with it as long as you disable digital driver signing.

I did in the end - its on its way in the post now. Changed quite a few of the parts too!

Chris