Well they put it up today, saw it a few weeks ago when I visited Swiftech. Nice looking block.
http://swiftech.com/products/ApogeeGTX.asp
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Well they put it up today, saw it a few weeks ago when I visited Swiftech. Nice looking block.
http://swiftech.com/products/ApogeeGTX.asp
I gotta say, that looks sweet. I musts gets ones.
Now that is one sexy block.
According to the site, it is 1C cooler vs the GT on a 100W load due to the wider distance between the barbs.
Maybe this is where you get to try out your new test rig, Scott. :P
Great, and I just redid my setup, again, lol.
Im all for more distance between the barbs, makes fitting 1/2'' tygon a doddle !
not sure i like the aesthetic route swiftech are going down, but i suppose its all for the greater good !
cheers for the heads up nik, I might get one of these for my project :)
Rick B
Yes I am running my test for Ian right now - with the storm and the iwaki RD at 18v vs 24v. I could not do it yesterday as the battery in my air temp probe died. The only thing that concerns me is the aluminum top... Gabe has assured me that there is not a chance the nickel/zinc coating will degrade. He something to the effect of 'military grade'. Time will tell.
Hmm, if that is the case, then the barbs screw all the way through the top or else it could potentially make contact with the aluminum top. Oh nikhsub1, ygpm from yesterday. cheers.
UK has them on order hehehe
cool design
Why no backplate? How are you supposed to get adequate mounting pressure without cracking your motherboard? (Obviously this concern applies to all current Intel mounts). I guess we're left to our own devices on that? It would have been nice for them to include a compatible back plate with this block.
Tell them, they do listen. Might just take 2 weeks for them to read and respond to your mail as did mine but i can't fault them for what they offered me so i take back the haiting of the wait
I was just going to ask the same thing why not include a cheap 5.00 back plate?Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain
Sigh, please learn to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerswim8
Is it just me, or is the top actually a passive cooler? It's a great idea that's been thought of before, but is the small temp gain actually worth the added manufacturing difficulty? I guess this depends on what manufacturing method Swiftech uses. At any rate, I hope this doesn't drive the price up.
so the difference is a new shiney top and a tighter pin grid array?
edit: nvm.. read the info on swiftechs website..
so a shiney new top that sorta passively cools and further spacing between the barbs to alow the outer edges of pin grid to actaully cool something. not bad, but I would still like to not have the aluminum top.. I dont care how plated it is, it just scares the crap out of me. After seeing a MCW5000 shooting water out of it like a sprinkler I just wont put anything aluminum in the loop.
While I know the price of copper is high, a nice copper top would look good and give it the performace "edge". :lol:
Nope, even the pin array is the same if I'm reading correctly. Only changes are the top and the distance between barbs.
And I just bought my GT...
lol, the Apogee GTX was tested at that XS overclocking event w/Swiftech and De-tek, so, you should have known :fact:Quote:
Originally Posted by CedricFP
No it wasn't. That was the GT that was tested. The GTX is brand spanking new.
how strong is the nickel plating? I'm afraid that after a few applications of barb installation and removal, it'll eventually strip down to show a little aluminum. probably underestimating the power though
metal barbs!!
Me liking! And Metal barbs! Not the best ones but still!
they ran out of ideas or something? whats with the rehashing diamond plates with only a 1c difference? On top of that an alu top? They need to make nice with Cathar again.
G7 swiftechs? lol
i wonder why they abandoned delrin for the top...it's so popular among all wcers, and alu is most definitely not
is the alu, after all the plating, still cheaper?
I don't remember who posted it, but someone from these forums posted all the results and some pictures from the event. Embedded deep in the article was a statement that another new block "like" the Apogee from Swiftech was tested but he couldn't share the test results.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramenchef
No need to argue over any of this, I was just stating. :toast:
EDIT: Please PM me and let me know who you are and if I met you on the night of the Swiftech Challenge. I do not remember you at all and I met everyone there. If I do not hear from you, then I will delete any post that references your presence at that event and recommend you be temporarily banned for spreading flase rumors. ~Philly_boy~
EDIT: Hmm, sorry about that. Never heard about the GTX from all the threads about the GT challenge.
I assure you the GTX was at CES.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramenchef
It looks interesting but I will stay with my FuZion.
Hmm..looked here
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=136333&page=2
no way I will use anything with Aluminum....the components are ruined....
Swiftech IMHO blew with Al. coated material
indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGfever
Looks nice indeed.
I'm very happy to see it has 1/4 BSPP threads and not NPSM.
Also that the thread is not a mile long :P
Does anyone know if BSPP will become the new standard for Swiftech products?
/Thomas
So this thing is no different from the GT other than it looks cooler and has a higher chance of killing your parts?
Usama aka Ferrari Freak
water flows diagonally. more coverage more cooling
sorry..I should have given you the credit better..I was reading the link you posted and I agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
very bad idea
According to the big Fuzion vs GT vs Storm thread, it all really depends on the mounting. It's pretty even between the two blocks in performance.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=131297
Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain
Umm, there are about 10 different independent tests done there.
i eagerly await for someone to get their hands on the GTX and compare to the Fuzion. Either way i'll be keeping my Fuzion though. Anyone wanna buy a Storm? lol
IanY:
Doesn't the fact that the top is aluminium - anodized, concern you at all? I went ahead and ordered the D-Tek for my new setup. Had a Storm G4 before, and the increase in flow is enough for me I think, that and peace of mind that i dont have any alu in or anywhere near my loop.
Delrin top with aluminum glued into slots now that be cool and have the derlin polished!! Yeah dude!
I think the trend towards lower restriction designs is a good one. Seems each time I open my Storm up some jets are clogged. So just might have to invest in one of these purdy GTX blocks. In any event already an outcast, my rad is by BI and to add insult to injury, its an XFLOW :slapass:Quote:
The "flow" reason is the basis for the most hypocritical argument I have ever heard. The masses bowing down to the FuZion now are the very same people who were do darn adamant about the Storm block, poo pooing water flow about a few months ago. Saying that the unrestrictive Apogee design is garbage. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it becomes so convenient to criticize the Apogee platform as not having the same amount of flow.
A sexy looking block, better performing probably, but alu is a bit scary.
@IanY: just let your GT be in the loop and ad there some MCW60s... and let's hope for the G8-f@h client ;)
My testing should hopefully begin this coming week... fun times ahead!
So ,where can we find the apogee gtx? At least for international shippings, not only for domestic...
Fun times for u, useful info for us! Mmm, tests good... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Even with thorough testing, the results will more likely be inconclusive than not as all these blocks perform so close to each other.
I just got some nasty fingerprints on my GT so maybe I'll buy one of these:D
Not sure why you are so angry. People are allowed to express their opinions, truthful or otherwise to each their own. People seen results between the two blocks and made their decisions based on it. I bought the Fuzion based on those results and I really do not like that "bowed" based crap with the thicker o-rings. If you have results feel free to post them if you don't feel like posting them, then don't there's no need for the sarcastic remarks. :) I have to say the Fuzion gave my G5 a run for the money, but thats because the base of the g5 is concaved. Though I am on my way to correcting that some time tonight.:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
As discussed in a different thread, with multiple mounts of each block with 2 different flow rates, TRENDS will be very clear. No one single test can be considered conclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramenchef
Ahh ok, got ya.
Has anyone ordered the block yet? I know nikhsub1 will be testing in soon but anyone else take a risk and buy it?
lol im trying to put together a water cooling system but new products keep coming out and i keep having to wait for the results! I think this is a very good thing though :D
peace
I'm just overly suspicious about having any aluminium at my loop... due the incidents I've had... even if that nickel plating is same high grade as they use at motor cylinders :hm:
Anyway - GT is not a bad block, is it? :D
...and i also just bought GT.. ...and rly i dont like this plastic top :/ i dont trust it :P
A pity GT dont have copper, or even pleksiglas top :(
And about backplates - use Thermalright 775 Bolt-through kit - its just f****g awesome backplate :D :D
i wasnt refering to the risk of the aluminum top but rather just being the first to buy a new prodcut that hasnt really been tested, always kind of a risky purchase i feel, especially if you only have the money fore one block at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
peace
Nickel/Zinc cobalt plated Aluminum:Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBar
We provide the MIL and ASTM specs on the plating of these housings. why hasn't anyone bothered to google these specs?
Please, let's review the facts (in this case the specs), before a hasty judgement is passed.
The treatment we give these parts is Military grade, and it is now being used by many other industries, including of course the Military. It's expensive, but well worth it.
So it's more expensive than using the alternatives (brass, delrin)? What are the advantages then? I know "bling" sells, but I don't think that there are many wcers today who find comfort in aluminum parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
I'll be honest it bothers me very little. I have a koolance block that has electro plating on the block and it has caused no problems with the aluminum the rig (the block is copper while the radiator is aluminum).
As for taking out the barbs, why change them at all? Just put some silicone sealant and leave them on their.
here is the Nickel Plating, now I am off to look for the other
http://www.prodigysurfacetech.com/sp...essnickel.html
Military grade or not... you obviously are not listening to your customers if you put aluminum in your block.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
And if it is so expensive then why not just make the top out of copper?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Gabe, can you link us to something with the astm, I can find the military grade, but I am having problems finding the ASTM B 840-99 grade 6. Thanks.
Gabe, is there any reason for it other than looks?Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
And if its so expensive, wouldn't having a copper top that would provide the same secondary cooling effects be just as effective?
Silver plated copper top for GTX rev.2 to keep us all happy. :D
Delrin is bling enough for me.
With the two typical cases:
1) incessant tinkerers who are continually remounting, dismantling and reassembling block
2) people who put the block in then run it until the mobo and cpu are obsolete scrap
There doesn't seem a lot or risk: in the first case any corrosion will be spotted before it can cause problems, and in the second the chances of cutting through the plating are slim to none.
Sure, some people would pay the crazy money a copper top with silver plate would cost, but I can see why Swiftech have gone this way: the plated top strikes a balance between bling and practicality - and a lot of people do buy just for bling.
Silverprop made some great looking GPU waterblocks and its beautiful with its brass top. Any reason why that can't be done? Why go thru that military grade stuff. Keep it simple and put finned brass or copper for secondary passive cooling. As great as Swiftech is, I think this little brain fart has cost it some credibility.
You are incorrect in that statement. The GTX was shown privately behind closed doors only at the Swiftech Challenge event. We were not even permitted to photo it for fear the pics might get leaked. I had this conversation personally with Gabe about the photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicksterr
Ian, you know I also own a Fuzion and I actually own 2 Apogee GT's. I have done independent testing on both blocks but am not done the testing so I won't reveal the results until I publish the review in a few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
I am asking you to re-consider this. I deeply respect your attitude of "Let me get both and test them so I can see for myself which is better for my situation." We need more folks like you and Nikhsub1 here who will take the time to get to the bottom of which widget performs better. Please don't be so miserly with your results. Share them with the caveat that this is what works for you and these are your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
You are correct. The Fuzion is an excellent block. So is the Apogee GT. I am hoping that the GTX will follow in those footsteps.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
I have regularly disassembled and reassembled the Apogee GT with no ill affects or performance degradation. I don't think your arguement is true. As long as you are carefull each time you should be able to obtain repeatable resultsQuote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
OK, folks, please let's dabate this nicely....respecting one another's opinions without the need to flame or attack each other. It really is possible to disagree with someone respectfully and professionally. Remember, we do this to have fun making our machines go faster or be more silent or more stable for gaming, benching or DC'ing. Not one of us is getting paid $$$ to do this.
Let's be courteous so I don't have to push the "delete" button like with jerrydog.
oh c'mon, you don't actually believe that, do you? With GPUs and CPUs today and double, triple, and quadruple rads, what kind of difference are you expecting a alu top to give compared to a plastic top? I expect nil.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
Agreed. Regardless of the manufacturing standards used there is still a chance and there are still defects of said manufacturing. No matter what you do to stop it, it will happen. It is the primary law of statistics in manufacturing/QA.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
I'm sure that u did a great job with the coating, but many of us aren't familiar with alu in our loops. U should know it better as an American. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
In Germany this would be totally acceptable... :p:
If the performance is top notch, i may ditch my beloved Storm though...
I wonder the same thing. Weight maybe a prob?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
Hmm, I just we'll just have to wait and see if these predicted issues actually come about.
U misunderstood me. I meant that cooper maybe a weight prob.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Copper would not create a weight problem. the force of the tubes applying unwanted leverage to the CPU block is FAR greater than any effects caused by a heavier block.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBar
I expect nil too, but I am just hoping that Swiftech created the GTX for more than just bling factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowwie
oooh whens the "ultra" out :D
Thermalfake have an all copper block; from what I can tell it's extremely restrictive, and probably performs badly compared to almost anything else you can buy - clearly though cost isn't a problem because they sell it cheap.
(Had to edit this, there is a block that's going to be worse: the Thermalfake block made out of a great big lump of copper with a big lump of perspex on top: the water gets near the hear somewhere, honest, maybe).
Swiftech have always been pretty mindful of how their stuff looked, and I doubt that has done their business any harm. The vast majority of buyers aren't going to know if the composition of the block is a good thing or bad, and aren't going to care unless the Swiftech site tells them it's the best thing since sliced bread (but that would never happen right?) They just want something that looks flashy under a blue LED at a LAN party.
Obviously, you would use silver plate on copper instead of going solid silver because otherwise it might start corroding your copper rads - lol :)
File the rest of this thread with the one on the fans of thunder. Unless someone can show that this block consistently outperforms FuZion the whole debate is meaningless - and the claimed benefits would seem to only bring it to around equal (or still below give or take o-ring benefits).
Hadn't thought that. U gave me a new perspective. Thanx... :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
Um, the corrosion comment is an attempt at what I call 'humour', you may know it as 'joke'.Quote:
Hey, the base plate of the Storm G5 is >99.995% (just a quote, not a fanboy remark) pure silver. I honestly don't know whether the internals are copper or silver, but the top is delrin. Anyway, I've never heard of corrosion from owners. The point is why silver plate for looks when you can design for substance.Quote:
Obviously, you would use silver plate instead of going solid silver because otherwise it might start corroding your copper - lol
That said, 99.995% pure silver sounds like a suspect choice for a block base (or top) but as for price: apparently, silver is a something over A$500 per kilo, so if the top masses 50g (a generous estimate) you're looking at about A$25 in materials, maybe US$14, something like that? Probably would be a less in practice as you'd get the mass down as low as practical.
But if there was any benefit, would it be enough to beat a D-Tek FuZion, 9 mounts out of 10? Sounds unlikely, nobody seems convinced that the alu block helps worth mentioning; so unless they are going to put some serious fins on the top it's not going to make a lot of difference.
Just speculating, but it would seem the gain they did get was from spacing the barbs, which was an overdue mod really... OTOH, maybe what they need is the inlet flowing straight at the center of the block, more like a FuZion. Maybe someone who knows can say whether D-Tek are getting a lot of impingement style turbulence benefits that helps the edge ahead of the Apogee GT in almost all tests I'd consider actual 'tests' as such and not blatant PR.
Incorrect - the military DO use WC'd rigs... As do NASA and ESA. Trust me on this one... no more can be said on the subject ;)Quote:
The military does't have WC rigs that gets trashed by corrosion, we do.
<<<< Wants to get a look at Thermochills books...............hehehehe that would explain the shortage in RADs :nono: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Marci
There's a PA120.3 in the International Space Station isn't there!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marci
:lol2: its hanging out the window to get the lowest Ambient temps :-PQuote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
They are using Petra's PT NUKE as well.
There are bomb disposal robots, lasic eye surgery lasers, hazmat environmental control robots and many other such things around with ThermoChill HE Series rads stuffed into em...Quote:
There's a PA120.3 in the International Space Station isn't there!
Please remain where you are. Operatives will be over shortly to collect you for debriefing. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marci
EDIT: And the NSA. Guess they have to cool those Rubicons somehow.
I know you meant this in humor but...Quote:
Originally Posted by phelan1777
I don't think placing a rad in a vacuum would work very effectively as there is no physical medium in which enable heat transfer. There might be a benefit from black-body leech but, unless I am mistaken, a rad exposed to a flow of air or water (or other thermally conductive medium) would be more efficient than exposure to mere entropy of even the coldest vacuum.
I've actually wondered about things like this in aerospace applications but naturally, not having access to a near absolute zero vacuum I haven't been able to test the notion. I don't know anyone who has access to such things either.
Well the heat could radiate from the rad into the vacuum as conductivity is not the only way heat gets transfered. Not sure how effective it would be, though.
a bit OT are we? LOL
Copper and silver don't corrode each other, aluminum and copper do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossil
Hehe just a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budwise
Topic? There was a topic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Budwise
I am looking at the temperature, and if you have liquid moving through the rad via a pump, the RAD would absord the temperatures............but not knowing anything about how the cold of space would really affect a RADs heat transfer properties I was just looking at the basic COLD of space.Quote:
Originally Posted by grudgelord
Space is Cold and thats all I was looking at. ;)
hey Marci, not that you can confirm or deny this at this time, but see if you can get one sent up with the next shuttle launch so we can get ambient temps and see if we can get a mad OC on a 6800 or Q6700 ;-)
We are such nerds..hahaha, debating the effects space would have on our overclocks lol :D
Has anyone recieved this block yet? Im anxious to see some tests!
peace
The forum ate my post about how we should listen to Gabe and not whine about the plated, thermally conductive aluminum that is used as a heatsink.
Also, what's wrong with a little bling?
My post had some suggestions for corrosion testing on this block that must've been quite delicious. The just of it was:
TEST 1: Loop with no CPU. Only the block, a pump, and some tubing. Run it for a long time, and look to see if there is any corrosion periodically.
TEST 2: Same as test 1, except with corrosion-resistant additive to the water. Use algaeacide in both loops, simply to prevent that factor from ruining the tests.
Speaking about space really does fit this thread now, it could not have gotten further off tract.
@nik,
I look forward to the test results so the data can speak for itself. :fact:
I think you will find that silver is capable of inducing galvanic corrosion in anything besides a handful of obscure alloys, gold, platinum, titanium and graphite.Quote:
Copper and silver don't corrode each other, aluminum and copper do.
However, for those that still don't get the joke, the rate of corrosion would be extremely slow - and with deionized water in a standard cooling loop, you could probably go a decade or so before you could detect it.
Just guessing on the time-scale here, haven't done any bogus calculations. However, if you were to intentionally induce galvanization, then you would soon see results, even from gold and copper (by which I mean the gold corrodes the copper). This is just electroplating in reverse, if that helps make it sound more believable.