Intel IHS removal... Any reason boiling water couldn't be used?

Hey everyone. I've got a Kentsfield that I believe to be a very capable chip. I'm at 3.6GHz so far and it seems to be stable (4 P95 CPU + 1 Orthos Blend + ATi tool 3D test to heat up my WC loop + SPI 32M) so far, but temps are much higher with my APOGEE block than I would like. I'm sitting at 70-75C as reported by both nTune and Core Temp.

The solder that holds the IHS on melts under 100C, and this has to be melted in order to remove the IHS.

I've heard of a couple methods for removing Core 2 Duo IHSes, but they all involved torches or lighters and all kinds of scary stuff. I want to know if anyone has thought of just cutting the glue around the edges, then just sticking the thing in a pot of boiling distilled water, letting it dry and off to the races... I would imagine a CPU is reasonably well sealed up, and besides, given ample time to dry, there shouldn't be any reason that it would be permanently damaged... Anyone wanna let me know if there's something wrong with this logic?

it would work nicely, but i recommend strongly against removing the ihs, especially on such a nice chip, even moreso since there are actually two dies.

I agree, many things work better in theory than in practice, this is one of those things.

Removing the IHS is too much work for LGA 775. On a Kentsfield, not worth the risk imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cirthix

it would work nicely, but i recommend strongly against removing the ihs, especially on such a nice chip, even moreso since there are actually two dies.

---

I agree, really risky :stick: you could lap the ihs ;)

try this...
boil the water and ensure that the pan is very hot

let the pan, bowl etc. do the melting, not the water. The water is just there to ensure that the metal si scalding hot.


just an idea.

light your rig off without any cooling on the CPU..... that should heat it up enough to get it off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cdelong

light your rig off without any cooling on the CPU..... that should heat it up enough to get it off.

---

CPUs are meant to get hot but doing that is very risky. Chips can survive this, but sometiems they die.

I was just kidding:stick:

My friend killed his 6300 taking the IHS off lol, I told him I would do it for him but he got anxious and took it off, now hes trying to explain to newegg why he needs to return his chip.

:eek:

Does it still work?

ack, why doesnt that look good? Did you pull them apart? or did they seperate like that

OMG :eek: I hope it still works

why why? :slapass: this ruined my day seeing a kentsfield like this :(

OMG =( i hope it still works. if it doesn't i want to make a kentsfield keychain.

-

Assume it still alive, next is to protect that two cores from getting crushed at those corners by HSF/water block on the mounting process.

Tips for protecting that "naked" cores (cross linked post) at OcF HERE


-

Congrats man :toast:

Show us some insane improvements now! :D

Closet Gamer,
OMG, that is pretty crazy, especially on a very expensive quad-core! I am very glad to see that it worked though, at least you got the first step done! We are all very curious to know how/if it still works and if it does still work what kind of temperature differences you monitor!

I've also got a so-called "hottie" despite my heatspreader being very flat! Depending on your results I might do the same thing! Thanks for posting pictues and please keep us posted m8!

anxious to see what happened..:rolleyes:

he's either laughing or crying in the closet, right now

wow, that needed some courage!!! :toast:
I assume its ok, so show us how it helped temps.

BTW Very nice investigation! :toast:

well he was warned.

but also make note that the solder has only been applied to one side of those cores.
this would point a huge finger to the fact of why those chips get so hot.
if the solder isnt even covering all the core area, and especially since its only on the edges.


dunking it in water wasnt the smartes thing you could have ever done but hey.. ive seen worse.
how much you wanna bet that at the boiling point that wafer expanded and absorbed water into the wafer.... guess what that does when she is fired up...

Good luck without killing the chip. :rolleyes:

Nice job and you either have a lot of money or are taking one hell of a risk :p:.
Couple of things scrape the solder off with a credit card or similar so as not to damage the core and don't fire it up now leave it somewhere warm and dry for a few days! Just because it feels dry it doesn't mean there isn't any water absorbed in the wafer (as lestat pointed out) or similar.

Hope it was worth it although from experiance removing the IHS gave very marginal differances to just lapping it 1-2C in extreme cases. :toast:

boiling distilled water

that is good idea

how long does it take?


i think it is still working.

[QUOTE=Lestat]well he was warned.

but also make note that the solder has only been applied to one side of those cores.
this would point a huge finger to the fact of why those chips get so hot.
if the solder isnt even covering all the core area, and especially since its only on the edges.


dunking it in water wasnt the smartes thing you could have ever done but hey.. ive seen worse.
how much you wanna bet that at the boiling point that wafer expanded and absorbed water into the wafer.... guess what that does when she is fired up...[/QUOTE]

A big puff of smellyness?

I have tried removing this IHS with a soldering iron. Problem isnt removing
the thing, its just the cpu surviving the heat. The delta is very small from separating the heatsink to the cpu dieing.

Ok lets say the cpu survived the separation. Ive got a ds3 and when put the
e6600 back in the socket guess what, the chip was at the same height as the
retention mechanism after taking off the retention clip.

That is right, same height as the bracket soldered to the board.
(remember i removed the retention clip that clips on the IHS.)

This was so not in favor of what I set out to do. Putting a water block
or a heatsink on top made poor contact with the die. Yes i put some anti die smasher tape padding. Bottom line was the die was just not high enough after
removing the clip.

Also another note, after removing the IHS, the die doesnt not have the same
hardness your p3 did. There was a special silicon wafer plate that was on p3,
it is not present on the core2 chips. This means the die is very very very
easy to crack with 1/3 pressure of what p3 chip could have taken on top.
Most people have not mentioned this nor have they been aware.

Example take a look at your 965 chipset, it has a very reflective hard wafer
on the die (that is its IHS) The core2 has none so the die cracks easily.

oh yeah and my e6600 didnt survive, sadly using a e6300 now.

my 2 cents...

I don't know what you are all talking about? This looks really good. What you see is a perfectly removed IHS and some solder left on the cores, where it's supposed to be. Now all he has to do is to remove the remaining solder and then this chip should work like a charm.
Imagine this "naked" chip with a really good heatsink and some coollaboratory liquid metal pad as TIM. This combination should be kicking it. ;)

The best thing is: With the two cores in place it's even harder to actually crack a core. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by corsair8575

I have tried removing this IHS with a soldering iron. Problem isnt removing
the thing, its just the cpu surviving the heat. The delta is very small from separating the heatsink to the cpu dieing.

Ok lets say the cpu survived the separation. Ive got a ds3 and when put the
e6600 back in the socket guess what, the chip was at the same height as the
retention mechanism after taking off the retention clip.

That is right, same height as the bracket soldered to the board.
(remember i removed the retention clip that clips on the IHS.)

This was so not in favor of what I set out to do. Putting a water block
or a heatsink on top made poor contact with the die. Yes i put some anti die smasher tape padding. Bottom line was the die was just not high enough after
removing the clip.

Also another note, after removing the IHS, the die doesnt not have the same
hardness your p3 did. There was a special silicon wafer plate that was on p3,
it is not present on the core2 chips. This means the die is very very very
easy to crack with 1/3 pressure of what p3 chip could have taken on top.
Most people have not mentioned this nor have they been aware.

Example take a look at your 965 chipset, it has a very reflective hard wafer
on the die (that is its IHS) The core2 has none so the die cracks easily.

oh yeah and my e6600 didnt survive, sadly using a e6300 now.

my 2 cents...

---

1st you need to remove the "775 CPU CAP" from mobo
2nd you need to use something on top of CPU to hold it. i had open at least 30 AMD CPU and only one of them crack with DI pot



so how is CPU now? is it wrok?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by guess2098

1st you need to remove the "775 CPU CAP" from mobo
2nd you need to use something on top of CPU to hold it. i had open at least 30 AMD CPU and only one of them crack with DI pot



so how is CPU now? is it wrok?

---

LOL, I love you denny :)

HEY EVERYONE!

CPU is fully funtional! I have removed as much of the solder as I can now, and at first when I put it in the board (680i reference), I got no codes and no heating up of the chip, so I thought it was dead, but when I tightened the nuts on my APOGEE, it came alive. I only have some garbage thermal compound on it right now because my AS5 and my Ceramique were both at work, but I will post some more pics and some results in the next day or two. Kentsfield has officially been successfully stripped. You saw it at XS first.

I did not end up using the water method I had originally considered. Many people are using fire in order to do this, but it seemed to risky to me. Instead I put the CPU in a pot stuck on with thermal compound, then I put the pot in a pot of boiling water. This was almost successful. I kept hearing "pop" and taking it off right away. I needed more heat. What ended up working was allowing the element on the stove to heat up fully, then putting the pot down for about 10 seconds. I heard "pop", but this time I left it, then I heard "pop" again, looked inside and the chip had fallen off the IHS. I put paper towel over top to keep it from flying out of the pot because I have heard that they come off with a fair amount of force sometimes. I used my fingernails to remove most of the solder, then cleaned off the last bit with rubbing alcohol. I don't know how successful this was.

I remove the retention mechanism from my motherboard, but it was not necessary to remove the hold down bar, or the other bit. Contact seems to be ok because whenever I remove the water block, it pulls up the CPU with it, and it is very stuck. Temps at stock speeds appear to be equal to temps with IHS, but I was using the IHS with AS5, and I'm using some Arctic Cooling generic stuff now. I will post more later.

:toast: awesome you got major bawls dude glad to hear it went well and thanx for the update and method that you used. now get that baby o.c.ed:clap: :clap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lestat

well he was warned.

but also make note that the solder has only been applied to one side of those cores.
this would point a huge finger to the fact of why those chips get so hot.
if the solder isnt even covering all the core area, and especially since its only on the edges.


dunking it in water wasnt the smartes thing you could have ever done but hey.. ive seen worse.
how much you wanna bet that at the boiling point that wafer expanded and absorbed water into the wafer.... guess what that does when she is fired up...

---

You're always so grumpy! :(

It looks to me as though solder is covering the entirety of both cores, and half stuck to the cores, the other half stuck to the IHS.

Also, if you look closely at the picture, there is no water present. Looks like he heated up the pot, with the cpu face down (IHS FIRST) with some thermal compound between the two.

Even on the paper towel, you can so, no liquid present.

I think he did a very good job!

SWEET, nice one dude, needed some balls to risk that Kents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methylphenidate

HEY EVERYONE!

CPU is fully funtional! I have removed as much of the solder as I can now, and at first when I put it in the board (680i reference), I got no codes and no heating up of the chip, so I thought it was dead, but when I tightened the nuts on my APOGEE, it came alive. I only have some garbage thermal compound on it right now because my AS5 and my Ceramique were both at work, but I will post some more pics and some results in the next day or two. Kentsfield has officially been successfully stripped. You saw it at XS first.

I did not end up using the water method I had originally considered. Many people are using fire in order to do this, but it seemed to risky to me. Instead I put the CPU in a pot stuck on with thermal compound, then I put the pot in a pot of boiling water. This was almost successful. I kept hearing "pop" and taking it off right away. I needed more heat. What ended up working was allowing the element on the stove to heat up fully, then putting the pot down for about 10 seconds. I heard "pop", but this time I left it, then I heard "pop" again, looked inside and the chip had fallen off the IHS. I put paper towel over top to keep it from flying out of the pot because I have heard that they come off with a fair amount of force sometimes. I used my fingernails to remove most of the solder, then cleaned off the last bit with rubbing alcohol. I don't know how successful this was.

I remove the retention mechanism from my motherboard, but it was not necessary to remove the hold down bar, or the other bit. Contact seems to be ok because whenever I remove the water block, it pulls up the CPU with it, and it is very stuck. Temps at stock speeds appear to be equal to temps with IHS, but I was using the IHS with AS5, and I'm using some Arctic Cooling generic stuff now. I will post more later.

---

i am really sorry but i don;t quite get it ..... step by step for me? XD


like this???? don't lol me
http://www.iamxtreme.net/1.GIF

Take a pot with boiling water
Then take a smaller pot , at the bottem of that pot aply some AS
Put CPU on AS in smaller pot
Put smaller pot in big pot of boiling water and wait

Thats how he did it :) ( Methylphenidate u got some balls m8 ;) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cranox

Take a pot with boiling water
Then take a smaller pot , at the bottem of that pot aply some AS
Put CPU on AS in smaller pot
Put smaller pot in big pot of boiling water and wait

Thats how he did it :) ( Methylphenidate u got some balls m8 ;) )

---

damn thx i will do it tonight or tomorrow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cranox

Take a pot with boiling water
Then take a smaller pot , at the bottem of that pot aply some AS
Put CPU on AS in smaller pot
Put smaller pot in big pot of boiling water and wait

Thats how he did it :) ( Methylphenidate u got some balls m8 ;) )

---

No he said that almost worked. he put the pot with no water directly on the burner. I think...lol maybe he should clarify.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nugzo

No he said that almost worked. he put the pot with no water directly on the burner. I think...lol maybe he should clarify.

---

i re-read his thread, i think you are right

maybe i just get a heat gun and do it with 600C then...

Alright well our server died at work, so I can't do anything here, so I guess I'll do a step by step guide.

1. Cut the rubber around the outside of the IHS. Use my picture for reference of where the components are inside. Keep in mind though, my chip is a B1 ES, so slight changes may have been made.

2. Find a cooking pot with a flat bottom

3. Put some kind of TIM on the chip, and stick it to the bottom of the pot

4. Put paper towel around the chip, and over top of it to keep it from bumping anything when it pops off

5. Heat the stove element completely ahead of time (until it is red hot)

6. Put the pot directly on the element so that the CPU is directly over top of the heating area

7. I heard two *pop* sounds, then I took it off, and the CPU was free

Superb.

People like you Methylphenidate deserve a :toast: . Cos you keep things interesting :p:

Good luck and i hope to see some Results with better temps soon. :)

I'm glad it survived, good job with that. I'll stick to decapitating AMDs, i dont think lga775 benefits nearly as much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methylphenidate

Alright well our server died at work, so I can't do anything here, so I guess I'll do a step by step guide.

1. Cut the rubber around the outside of the IHS. Use my picture for reference of where the components are inside. Keep in mind though, my chip is a B1 ES, so slight changes may have been made.

2. Find a cooking pot with a flat bottom

3. Put some kind of TIM on the chip, and stick it to the bottom of the pot

4. Put paper towel around the chip, and over top of it to keep it from bumping anything when it pops off

5. Heat the stove element completely ahead of time (until it is red hot)

6. Put the pot directly on the element so that the CPU is directly over top of the heating area

7. I heard two *pop* sounds, then I took it off, and the CPU was free

---

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done! I can see loads of overclockers using this technique to remove their ihs's :toast:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methylphenidate

HEY EVERYONE!

CPU is fully funtional!

---

Be sure and post some proper before and after temps once you re seat with AS5; depending on your results ... I may or may not be doing an E6400 via the same method ...

If I can drop from 65 to 60 at load ... then I'll do it for sure ...

thanks for going big on that mod ...

(i'm having one right now, just for you - :toast:)

off topic, but your name wasnt methylphenidate to begin with was it (seems a fitting name for that rabbit lol)? But glad to see your chip is working for you, hows teh thermals?

hehe I really thought it was a goner for sure :p: glad its working now :toast: do let us know how are the thermals doing ;)

I absolutely loved Methyl's response. Nothing about whether it worked, just a single picture. And a cool picture at that.

Glad to hear it still works.

I would suggest using distilled water just to make sure no minerals dry on your chip to reduce possible damage. That's if you don't use the pot method.

:banana: you are a "pop" star now. May be can try on my old chip .. :rolleyes:

this turned out to a very nice guide ... thx for sharing the method... :toast:
really cant wait to see the temp. difference :woot:
keep poppin' man! :toast:

as far as an alternate method for exposing the cpu, could you use a circular sander disc with fairly high grit sand paper (1000) or so ... and sand down until your completely through the IHS and even a tad into the silicon of the cpu (to clean it of any solder)?

would that leave too much of the IHS around the sides and perhaps cause shorts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leojharris

as far as an alternate method for exposing the cpu, could you use a circular sander disc with fairly high grit sand paper (1000) or so ... and sand down until your completely through the IHS and even a tad into the silicon of the cpu (to clean it of any solder)?

would that leave too much of the IHS around the sides and perhaps cause shorts?

---

With 1000 grit sandpaper you'd wait hours for it to sand through the whole IHS. I'd say that this method doesn't really sound too good. Better get rid of the whole IHS at once. But that's just my :2cents: .

Nice work ;)

I have a hotplate/magnetic stirrer combi with 0-350C temperature control. Guess I found a good use for it now :)

haha, crazy :eek:

since this seems to be an active thread, i'll post my question here. i removed my ihs but didn't get the results i wanted, still a very large 10C+ difference between cores. is it possible the core itself is warped? the as5 footprint seems like it's touching all over, but the pressure isn't even i suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by celemine1Gig

With 1000 grit sandpaper you'd wait hours for it to sand through the whole IHS. I'd say that this method doesn't really sound too good. Better get rid of the whole IHS at once. But that's just my :2cents: .

---

i mean while using a high powered circular sander that i'd apply the IHS to. perhaps would have to move back to 800 or something ... but using a powered disc, the work could go fairly quick.

seems like there would be too much scrap metal left hanging on the sides, though ...

I hate to do this to you guys, but I do not have my idle/load numbers from before my experiment. I can guesstimate that I got about 5C off my load numbers and almost nothing off my idle numbers as read by core temp. Overall whether you're better off lapping or removing IHS is totally up to you. I honestly don't think this is that much riskier, and they both void your warranty. This gives slightly better results by a couple degrees (I'm using an APOGEE, under better water, the difference might be more pronounced), but the choice is up to each individual user. I'd love to see other people try this and report their results though. I have an X6800, but I don't know if I can remove the IHS on this one because it might need to go back where it came from.


It looks like this was moved to help and support... Weird...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ineedaname

I would suggest using distilled water just to make sure no minerals dry on your chip to reduce possible damage. That's if you don't use the pot method.

---

If you are worrying about minerals, you would not use the pot - but what else is there to use? :D . By the way, you should use de-ionised water to start with (those they use in the fab), distilled water is not good enough.

Even when the IHS is out, there is still significant thermal resistance between the core and the heat sink (or cooling block). Thinking extreme and being irrational, has anyone tried welding the cores (or the IHS) onto the heat sink (or the cooling block) to improve heat conduction, in this way, there is no need for any freaking thermal compound ... LOL.

I hope you mean solder, and not weld... You would still have to contend with the poor thermal conductivity of solder, which would likely be worse than thermal compound.

If you are worried about the two cores not being of the same height, thus causing "bad" contact to the heatsink, you could always do the following:

WARNING! THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED, SO DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!

You could take for example 1mm thick steel and fabricate a narrow frame, which runs along the edges of the CPU (not the cores, but the green package ;) ).
Now if you lap the whole CPU with the frame in place, you'll get both cores down to nearly exactly the same height and flatness. The hand lapping will lead to some rounding on the edges of the steel frame, but it's OK that way. This ensures that the middle, where the cores are located is slightly higher than the edges, hence giving perfect contact between the cores and the heatsink, instead of only having the whole pressure on the edges.

Just one idea. There sure are other ways. It's only how I would try to improve contact, as you don't seem to be happy with what you got ATM.

lol you crazy soab

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methylphenidate

I hope you mean solder, and not weld... You would still have to contend with the poor thermal conductivity of solder, which would likely be worse than thermal compound.

---

No. I really meant weld... it produces the best thermal conductivity, but I reckon that this is a crazy idea, unless the heatsink (or water block) is part of the wafer substrate to begin with - that can only happen (if ever) in a fab.

By the way, if soldered properly, a joint would product good thermal conductivity too. 65% Sn and 35% Pb is all metal and definitely has lower thermal resistance than thermal compound, which is either silicon based or at best silicon loaded with a small amount of silver (and sold for lots of $$$) :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bazx

lol you crazy soab

---

I'd prefer creative soab. :D

wow...waiting to see some results...:woot:

Alright I've got some results for you guys, but I don't have anything but approximate numbers from before removal, so hopefully someone with an APOGEE and a similar water loop can give us some load numbers with IHS :(

CPU 1.512V as read by eVGA bios on 680i board. Supposedly it's one of the more accurate boards out there in this regard

core temp reads cores 1&2 as 75C and cores 3&4 as 71C

nVidia monitor reads CPU temp as 62C

CPU is clocked at 12x277 for 3.33GHz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zerolise

No. I really meant weld... it produces the best thermal conductivity, but I reckon that this is a crazy idea, unless the heatsink (or water block) is part of the wafer substrate to begin with - that can only happen (if ever) in a fab.

By the way, if soldered properly, a joint would product good thermal conductivity too. 65% Sn and 35% Pb is all metal and definitely has lower thermal resistance than thermal compound, which is either silicon based or at best silicon loaded with a small amount of silver (and sold for lots of $$$) :D

---

lol I think the point being made is the temps of welding!!

I think part of what's making my chip run so hot is the fact that it's a relatively early engineering sample. I have an ES Q6600 coming that I might have been able to get better results on, except that my board is worthless for Kentsfield FSB overclocking :( (680i reference)

Well I might do that on my E6600 :D

Nice thread. Neat guide here. :D

If i'm gonna remover a ihs, then i wil use that guide.. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methylphenidate

I hate to do this to you guys, but I do not have my idle/load numbers from before my experiment. I can guesstimate that I got about 5C off my load numbers and almost nothing off my idle numbers as read by core temp. Overall whether you're better off lapping or removing IHS is totally up to you. I honestly don't think this is that much riskier, and they both void your warranty. This gives slightly better results by a couple degrees (I'm using an APOGEE, under better water, the difference might be more pronounced), but the choice is up to each individual user. I'd love to see other people try this and report their results though. I have an X6800, but I don't know if I can remove the IHS on this one because it might need to go back where it came from.


It looks like this was moved to help and support... Weird...

---

no this is better than lapping and no voided warranty as with lapping when you stick IHS back on with epoxy. they will never check it. I say well done and also say big thumbs down to all who said blah blah you were warned etc. if someone wants to try delidding cpus etc then they should only be congratulated not put down by those of you who wont risk it. dont like it, dont do it but dont post negative remarks for those of us with balls.
my 10 cents.

and btw B1s are hot steppings like B0s. B3 ES and retail usually run a little cooler.

Its easy to say things like that after all goes well... After you've seen the cat's balls, saying that he is male... its an easy thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the highlander

Its easy to say things like that after all goes well... After you've seen the cat's balls, saying that he is male... its an easy thing.

---

nope. i delidded my 8800gtx without fear. then killed it for another reason, ramsink shorting components. only reason im not doing the qx6700 is becuase the TT wont reach the cores and dont really have stuff to mod it. might delid it once my prommy is regassed and ready though. ;)

Quote:

---

and btw B1s are hot steppings like B0s. B3 ES and retail usually run a little cooler.

---

Do you have any info on B2 steppings, like how they compare temperature wise to B0's, B1's, and B3's? Thanks for your help!

Could you post some photos .... with naked cpu in mobo ... something like this :D

Maybe something like this?

I thought you were supposed to remove the latch because it wouldn't hold in the cpu properly with naked lga775 cpus:confused:

Yes, you're supposed to do that.
Unless the cooler works even with the latch that is.

It's not a cooler issue, it's that the latch was designed with the ihs in mind, so there isn't enough pressure against the cpu so the contact with the pins isn't good

My friend had that problem when he removed the ihs on his e4300 until I told him to remove the latch

Ah, sorry, I read your reply a little too hastily.
But as you might see from my pic, the latch problem can be solved by using a shim.

I suppose, but the latch would still be preventing optimum cpu contact, someone got an 8c IDLE drop by removing the latch, didn't say how much load, but that's amazing