In Need of Volunteers For Product Testing...

Hey everyone!

I am in need of a few volunteers (about 5 or so, preferably in the US) to assist in testing a new coolant additive/concentrate that I've put together, with the help of Hound53. Basically, it's a non-glycol based coolant concentrate that you mix with distilled water to provide corrosion prevention, deposit control, pump & seal lubrication, and protection from algae, bacterial, and fungal growth. Additionally, after being diluted with distilled water, the resulting coolant is pretty harmless due to the very low concentration of chemicals needed for the coolant to be effective (though, you still shouldn't drink it... :rolleyes: ). The final coolant should be only slightly more conductive than pure distilled water (so, likely, the result would be conductivity that's somewhere around that of Fluid XP... but I'll have to wait for actual lab results before I'll know for sure). However, once you contaminate the coolant (just like with any other), the conductivity begins to increase.

Anyway, here are the details...

Main Ingredients:

99.7% USP grade Glycerine (used as a lubricant)
"PT_Nuke" Biocide (Copper(II) sulfate, Citric acid, distilled water)
GE Continuum AT901 (corrosion inhibitor/deposit control) - provided by Hound53
Distilled water (used to dilute the above solution)

Just so you know, the tiny amount of Continuum that's in the concentrate contains the following:
1,2,4 -Butanetricarboxylic acid, 2- Phosphono-, Sodium salt
Disodium phosphate
1 -H-Benzotriazole
Trisodium phosphate
Sodium molybdate

When diluted with the appropriate amount of distilled water, the final coolant should have the following chemical concentrations (approximately):
~4.4% Glycerine
~56ppm (parts per million) GE Continuum
~0.57ppm Copper sulfate
pH: 7 (neutral)

To make coolant from the concentrate, simply mix the contents of the 4oz. (118mL) bottle with 882mL distilled water for 1L of coolant (basically, just pour the concentrate into a 1L container and add distilled water up to 1L--it's easier than making Kool-Aid). Oh, yeah, and give it a bit of a shake (for good measure).

...so...any takers? (Yes, I am performing my own tests...but a little extra input from others is always nice to have).

Since I live in sweden I guess i'm out of the game :rolleyes: But I think that your mixture sounds really good. Will be intresting to see the results. But now to the most important question. What color is it Alex? :p:

I'll do it. In canada tho.

Any teaser of your tests...? ;)

what do you want us to do..just use,?..run tests

I just want to make sure I can do what you require

I live in Tampa and depending on what you need I would be a happy particpate

You can PM me or email
nhonickman@yahoo.com

Im going to buy from you in the next days, we can split shipping charges :D :toast: to 92173, let me know what you need. Happy to help.

I'd love to test it, but since I'm overseas, it's a no-no :(

Anyways, I'd also like to know the color (please let it be hawt like G11) :D
I'm pretty sure it'll blow any other coolant/additive out of the water (no pun intended).

Sadly, I'm overseas too. But just wanted to share that I find it great that you design and sell products with your own and the forum's input and ideas.:clap:

Does the test sample have any color, or the final product? Maybe additives with similar ingredients but with various colors to give consumers a wider choice of products, and obviously have them tested to see if there are any clogging issues.

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Originally Posted by Rasco

What color is it Alex? :p:

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Well, it's colorless and odorless... for the time being.

i'm in the us, have watercooling and don't mind testing new stuff.

i'll be a tester if you want.

Hi Petra. I'll be glad to test your mixture out. I'm currently using Swiftech Hydrex(SP?) at 2L to one bottle mix. It still clouds up my tubes. Send me a PM. If you don't hear from me tonight, I'll be back home Sunday night. Thanks.

I have a calibrated meter which I could test the conductivity with. Its a Myron Ultrameter II, which is calibrated with a NIST tracable standard solution (with cert.). I can provide results in microsiemens/cm and megaohms/cm so you could compare it to the other fluids. I don't know how soon I'd be draining and refilling my system though if you're looking for end user testing.

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Originally Posted by Petra

Well, it's colorless and odorless... for the time being.

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Alex,

I am Game, I have plenty of stuff to test out..LOL....

You have my info :) .

Luis

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Originally Posted by Petra

Well, it's colorless and odorless... for the time being.

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Fair enough, keeping it natural :p:

i'm up for it alex, I'm going to dissamble everything this weekend anyway. I'll swing by and see what you got. You just want us to let it run and see if there is anything unusual right? I have no testing equiqment of any sort lol, worst come I'll just bring my whole computer over so you can see.

I can help. But, what exactly are we supposed to do? Run the solution in a loop and...?

temps before/after adding additive, tube discolouration, if any...flowrates, etc...should all be checked, IMHO. Basically the same way anything is compared...

Ugh, I'd say I'd love to, but then I'd be lying, I'd need to order more tygon (CLEAR!), and completely redo the loop, which was a PITA the first time...

Will be watching with interest though :)

I'm up for it i'm in canada though...

i dont mind if its colorless, but can you also do test on how long it doesn't cloud up tubing?

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Originally Posted by septim

i dont mind if its colorless, but can you also do test on how long it doesn't cloud up tubing?

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I can assure you that there is nothing in there that acts as a plasticizer (softens some plastics, EHA's are one example), which is the reason some of the antifreeze based solutions will cloud tubing. Theoretically you should be able to run this stuff for years with no clouding, unless you get strong UV rays on your tubing from UV lights or sunlight.

I'm more concerned about the additive precipitating out of the solution. I understand that this is why we use distilled water w/ additives, but... ya know.

I'm available... I'm in Seattle... :)

i'm in, southeast usa, will run in the rig in my sig, let me know, thanks

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Sodium molybdate

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damn good lubricant, good choice.

I would be more than willing to test.

i still have a maze4 aluminum topped block i could test too to see how well it inhibits corrosion.

If you still need more help, I'm in the states and can lend a hand....

i live near seattle, i dont have water cooling tho, can it be applied to the processor, cooling....

jk....lol, can u make mixtures for the processors

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Originally Posted by fullmetal

i live near seattle, i dont have water cooling tho, can it be applied to the processor, cooling....

jk....lol, can u make mixtures for the processors

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what are you talking about?:confused:

It's about time someone came up with an additive solution that really is geared for watercooling and not for cars. Glad to see you taking the lead on this Petra (along with Hound53).

I just finished a new loop but I could refill it in the name of R/D
I have all new masterclear but I have some new tygon I could throw in the loop
as well

I'd be free to test it. I'll probably be buying a DDC-2 and top from you, so you could just put it in the package. You got the EK barbs in, right?

I'll probably be placing the order tomorrow or saturday. Just let me know if you want me to test it.

I just got my order today of a Func mouse pad, smartcoils and arctic silver adhesive. I looked at the box and thought you might have misplaced a case in there, it was so big! :D

Okay, first off, sorry for not addressing many questions... I've been busy upgrading the store's checkout system this evening (the good news is that PayPal is now integrated into the checkout system and all of the address information and payment stuffs is on a single page). International customers will still have to go through Quoc for the time being, however. Though, I'm gonna start working on setting things up so that Canadian customers can order directly through the site instead of having to e-mail Quoc (no estimated completion date on that yet). If anyone runs into any problems with the upgraded checkout system, please e-mail me. Thanks!

Anyway, back on topic, here's a list of stuff that I came up with that you guys could 'test' for:

- Component temps before & after (Make sure to note idle, load, and ambient temp as well as what coolant you were using previously. Preferably, this should be done without remounting your blocks or changing your loop.)
- Be sure to make note of the components that you're using (actual hardware and water cooling gear)
- People with mixed-metal loops: look for signs of corrosion
- Inspect for algae/microbial/fungal growth
- Watch for any abnormal coolant evaporation
- Take note of any tubing or component discoloration
- Those who are able to, check for change in coolant flowrate
- Watch for any changes in coolant color
- More/less/same amount/type of pump noise compared to previous coolant?
- Note any issues with excessive coolant foaming and/or filling/bleeding problems
- Thoughts on the mixing process? Should we release a pre-diluted/mixed version? Perhaps a "lite" version that's the same thing sans-glycerine?
- If you added anything to the coolant (coloring, UV dyes, whatever), what happened? Anything odd?
- Finally, any other suggestions/observations that you have and results of any other tests that you performed.

@ pissboy: running an electrical conductivity test in microSiemens/cm on the mixed coolant (not the concentrate) would be wonderful--PM me with address info and I can either send you a bottle of the concentrate or a small bottle of the resulting coolant.

@ cadaveca: PM me with shipping info and I'll send some your way

@ nealh: PM me with shipping info and I'll send some your way

@ thunderstruck!: PM me with shipping info and I'll send some your way

@ cronic: PM me with shipping info and I'll send some your way

@ DragonOrta: PM me with shipping info and I'll send some your way. As for that box, well, it was the only one that Quoc could find in the warehouse that that fUnc pad would fit in... lol

@ syne_24: I'll just mix up an extra bottle of it for you when you stop by on Friday... tomorrow is Friday, isn't it? hmm... that was quick.

I'll likely hit up the [H] tomorrow and see if anyone in there would be interested as well (as you can likely tell, I like having a lot of feedback about stuff that I work on).

On the topic of tube clouding, considering that I've had sections of tubing submerged in straight distilled water go cloudy, I'm really not sure if it'll make a difference in that department or not. Interestingly, tubing submerged in a 10% G11 solution doesn't seem to cloud (though, it has only been a few months). :shrug:

*edit* Also, I forgot to mention a couple things... First, as you may have noticed from the link in the ingredients list, the biocide is currently available for purchase separately (I figured that it would be kinda silly to only include it in the coolant concentrate). Secondly, at the request of Hound53, I've decided that, once we start selling this stuff, we'll be donating $1/bottle of concentrate sold to the local SPCA. Finally, I need to come up with a name for this stuff... all I can come up with right now "PT_Protect". Anyone else have anything better in mind?

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Originally Posted by freecableguy

damn good lubricant, good choice.

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you have one very interesting job FCG...


Alex. A big thankyou for developing this mix. Moving away from anything glycol based has been an aspiration of mine (for the community as a whole) for some time, but I was unsure how to manage it in a simple way.. I think you have provided the solution to that problem.

I would also be willing to help out with some testing.

I have no aluminum parts but I do have a couple of blocks (storm, mcw6002) and various rads (HCs, MCR, JR120) and a D4 as well as a DDC-2.
I have Clearflex60 and Masterclear tubing to test for staining and other reactions (the infamous cf60 film)
I will be obtaining some GPU blocks shortly.

for the name, how about Solution_P or PTS-G coolant?
btw Alex, you looking for any sort of design work? (graphic)

Looks like we're working on the same thing from opposite ends of the pond Petra... got some of Hounds Continuum goop here that arrived this morning, and have Spectrus en-route to me...

Quote:

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I'll likely hit up the [H] tomorrow and see if anyone in there would be interested as well (as you can likely tell, I like having a lot of feedback about stuff that I work on).

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If you want some quality scientific testing done on it, drop a post on procooling.com and see if there's any takers...

Quote:

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all I can come up with right now "PT_Protect". Anyone else have anything better in mind?

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HoundJuice... :D Freshly squeezed from the nearest pooch...

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Originally Posted by Marci

HoundJuice... :D Freshly squeezed from the nearest pooch...

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Might want to add a disclaimer, something to the like of "Disclaimer: No Canines were harmed during the research of this product blah blah blah blah" cause someone might mistread that :D

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Originally Posted by Marci

HoundJuice... :D Freshly squeezed from the nearest pooch...

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Obviously you never heard Ron White the redneck comedian do the bit about the bulldog and the trip to the vet :eek:

Hey Petra, I'd be glad to test too. PM

pm sent, thanks

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Originally Posted by Marci

HoundJuice... :D Freshly squeezed from the nearest pooch...

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lol, I'm not so sure that that name would go over very well... then again... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Marci

If you want some quality scientific testing done on it, drop a post on procooling.com and see if there's any takers...

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Yeah, good point... and I do have an account over there, I just don't post much. Perhaps, in the name of gathering more useful information, I'll give that a shot instead of the [H].

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Originally Posted by Marci

Looks like we're working on the same thing from opposite ends of the pond Petra... got some of Hounds Continuum goop here that arrived this morning, and have Spectrus en-route to me...

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It's really not such a bad thing, is it? ;)

As for the Spectrus, well, after researching it a bit and heeding Hound's warning, I decided that a sequestered copper solution would be a safer, less expensive, and equally as effective substitute, for our purposes. After all, it works great in aquariums (how do you think I tested the PT_Nuke...? :wasntme: ) and is even used in the city water around here (according to my copper test kit).

Petra did you try various concentrations of glycerol to come to the 5% mark i.e. was that concentration decided upon due to testing results?

Sign me up!

I'll be making an order from Petras shortly so if you want to include me feel free to throw some in!:D

yeah, i have an order with u right now. feel free too throw in some! :D

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Originally Posted by Petra

... Yeah, good point... and I do have an account over there, I just don't post much. Perhaps, in the name of gathering more useful information, I'll give that a shot instead of the [H]. ...

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Since I usually hang at ProCooling anyways...

I'd be more than happy to put this coolant mixture through the wringer.

I've got chillers, pumps, flowmeters, and uncommonly accurate thermometers.

Send me a PM. ;)

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Originally Posted by BigBen2k

Since I usually hang at ProCooling anyways...

I'd be more than happy to put this coolant mixture through the wringer.

I've got chillers, pumps, flowmeters, and uncommonly accurate thermometers.

Send me a PM. ;)

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YGPM :D

Ill give it a shot as well. My all copper line has been running with the swiftech stuff for a year now and im anxious to see what the damage to my polarflo is.

IN any case. IF you need another tester lmk. Ill volunteer my rig. If you wana check out the rig its in my signature.

id definatly like to help with this, but where can i buy GE Continuum AT901 ?

Name: Petras Coolant Additive or (PCA) Or Petras PC Coolant Additive.

I am willing to be a cooling loop guinea pig, and would be willing to pay for a sample to try out. I think something is growing in my loop...

Hey Petra, I have a 302 (RAD) that I can hook up to my RD-30, I have been using it lately as I am minus my 120.3.

With a Storm G5 and Maze 4.

I am debating getting another 302 as they are only 20$ Run dual 302s on a RD30 using 4X 120X 38mm San Aces :-) W/ Masterclear tubing.

Also, if you remember our last IM discussin, you could have an RD-30 for testing your fluid in a more structured testing environment. :D

Why not call it "Hound53" since it IS his mix? That way it could be sold on both sides of the Pond under the same name. :toast:

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

Why not call it "Hound53" since it IS his mix? That way it could be sold on both sides of the Pond under the same name. :toast:

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Ya, that or let him pick the name, think of it, immortalized in WCing for an additive! ;)

Thank you Petra, I recieved the concentrate today. I will drain the loop tonight and add the new beta solution.

The mix is coolant 118ml:882 distilled water..if I mix this up in a liter container, any idea on an expiration date?

Correct my math but this is about an 12% mixture..so we could fraction it into small volumes with same concentration correct....

My loop holds less than a liter of volume and I would like to mix in smaller amount of distilled water

I received the concentrate yesterday. I have used the current solution of 3% Zerox Super Racing coolant / 97% distilled water solution for several months with good results.
I drained the loop without removing either of the water blocks. I refilled the system with the Petra Tech solution, mixing the solution as the label suggested 1 bottle solution to 1 liter of distilled water. The fluid bled completely within two hours with my 3/4 inch t-line. The pump might be slightly quieter than the zerox solution I had before, but it is hard to tell for sure. It definitely is not any louder. I love the clear solution.
It gives me the exact same idle and max load temps as the original zerox solution, which is awesome!! I have a 23c delta between idle and load with both solutions at the same (+-1c) ambient temp. I am very impressed with the solution so far. To sum it up:

Positives
+same temps as the current best solution
+clear color, no more pink!
+possibly slightly lower pump noise
+bleeds easily
+minimal foaming

Minus
-NONE!!!!!!


I will continue to use the solution and monitor for any growth or evaporation. I will not be able to comment on whitening of tubes, as mine are already slightly milky.


The following screen shots reflect my testing with both solutions.
All the temperatures and equipment used are listed on the screenshots. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask. Thank You Petra for allowing me to test this solution.

Zerox Super Racing Coolant Solution:
http://i14.tinypic.com/2mdgeol.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/2mdgeol.jpg

Petra Tech Solution
http://i13.tinypic.com/4ftms7r.jpg
http://i13.tinypic.com/4ftms7r.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nealh

The mix is coolant 118ml:882 distilled water..if I mix this up in a liter container, any idea on an expiration date?

Correct my math but this is about an 12% mixture..so we could fraction it into small volumes with same concentration correct....

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Yeah, that should be fine. As for an estimated expiration date, I'd think that it would be fine for quite a long while (easily over a year).

There is shelf life on the Continiuum in solid form, I will ask the GE tech next time I talk to him if that holds true for it once it is mixed.

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Originally Posted by Hound53

There is shelf life on the Continiuum in solid form, I will ask the GE tech next time I talk to him if that holds true for it once it is mixed.

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thank you

*If these images are too big, let me know and I'll shrink them, they're tiny on my screen. :)

I offered to test the conductivity and resistivity (inversely related) of Petra's coolant. Petra sent me a bottle of the coolant concentrate which I mixed with the appropriate amount of distilled water to create 1L of coolant. It should be noted that the distilled water used was never opened until this test.

The testing procedure was handled as follows. I first took the graduated cylinder and cleaned it thoroughly with a bottle brush from our lab, it was rinsed with the deionized water, which I make continuously in our water plant. The properties of the deionized water make it much cleaner than the distilled water or coolant used in the test. A glass mixer from our lab was also cleaned in this fashion. The meter used, a (Myron L 6P Ultrameter), was then rinsed and calibrated with a conductivity standard solution from Omega Engineering. The coolant was then used to rinse the meter, and tested for conductivity, and then resistivity. The figures shown below show the coolant's conductivity at 23.23microsSiemen/CM, or 43.06KOhms/CM. The distilled water was also tested, as a point of reference, and measured at 2.65microSiemen/CM, or 378.6KOhms/CM. Finally, the meter was re-checked with the standard solution, to ensure that the meter did not change.

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I 'll be willing to try. I even just finished my loop, it's been cleaned out well and currently running your pentosin and Deionized water with a silver rod in the resevoir. Put me on your list if you want me to try it out w/deionized water. I also have a ntc thermistor attached to the side of my naked core (industry grade, not those $5 pieces of junk).

I am about to set up a fairly high end loop for my CPU/GPU's/chipset (see sig) that most of which is on it's way from your shop. I'd love to compare this stuff to pentosin/deionized water. I'll even develope a Excel SS for the worklog/results. Let me know if you can include me.

Petra - any news on the ETA of this coolant? Problems? Success?

after a months use, no issues whatsoever. Very good product.

So you only used that biocide stuff along with destilled water, no pentosin or other additives added?
How's the tubing holding? No milky, cloudy tubes?

Well, it's a lot more than just biocide... but, that aside, Hound and I are still testing and working the quirks outta this stuff. Right now, the only issue that we're having some sort of corrosion reaction between zinc and aluminum--the copper and aluminum don't seem to be doing anything to each other, though.

Really, this shouldn't be an issue for water cooling loops, but it just bothers us that it's happening at all... because it shouldn't.

I've got cloudy tubing. Masterclear. Sitting in my room, with a window right above it, so it gets sunlight for a couple hours each day. This is with only Distilled water and PT Protect. No Pentosin.

Thx Alex.

I'm gonna place my order tonight and might buy a botlle or 2 of this stuff and see what it gives.

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Originally Posted by DragonOrta

I've got cloudy tubing. Masterclear. Sitting in my room, with a window right above it, so it gets sunlight for a couple hours each day. This is with only Distilled water and PT Protect. No Pentosin.

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Been running a 5 micron filter for ~1 week. No cloudy tubing, yet.

Sorry for digging this out, but any news on this?

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Originally Posted by Fairydust

Sorry for digging this out, but any news on this?

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I had to put this project on the back burner for a while due to other things that I've had to shift focus to. That said, the mix needs a few little tweaks (need to come up with an appropriate pH buffer agent to bump the pH to around 8.0) and more conclusive stability testing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fairydust

Sorry for digging this out, but any news on this?

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I still have a small bottle of that "PT_Nuke biocide" stuff I got a couple of months ago.
If you wanna give it a try, just drop me a PM, and i'll ship you that small bottle.

i'm about to re-do my loop and I live in the Bay Area.

Let me know if you still need anyone.

Apogee
MCW60
MCR220
MCW30
DDC

LoL. I forgot this was in my loop.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

LoL. I forgot this was in my loop.

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Out of curiosity, how's it holding up?

fine, actually. I've got some dye in there as well, and it seems to have dimmed the "UV" a tiny bit, but other than that, no issues.

I purposely installed a block that had some algae on it, and that's almost completely gone...

As the dye has seeped into the tubing, it's hard to see if there was any effect on the tubing itself, but i did notice one thing....

my pump(MCP655) is very very quiet now.


:stick:

I'll pull it apart maybe this weekend and post up some pics. That's some longterm testing...:lol2:

If all goes well I'll have a 3,100BTU chiller made that I'd be willing to make a test loop for this stuff to see what happens at low temps, and I have an assortment of metals I can test it with. Aluminium sheet, Stainles steel sheet, Copper shet, Brass and such.

See how Methonol effects it.

I have used this in my loop now for a few months...no hard data as I have no easy methods for measurement of temps

but for the more casual XS user(does that exist)...I like this additve
I have a PA160 with a storm rev2 block, mcw 60..cooling e6600 L629f and x1900xt...my temps seem fine

I have ambient of ~25C, idle at 33C with 1.4v(1.37/1.38v real based on DMM) and Panaflo 120x38mm fan at 7v...my loads with fan at 12v are in the mid 50s with 12hrs plus Prime95 blend

I have gotten no algae..my tubes are "cloudy" but I saw this when I used Zerex with my masterkleer

I see no down side to the product and I beleive as a min. temps are no worse maybe a bit better