P5WDH Phase change - dielectric grease a must [corrosion]

After my 12 day run with E6700/Asus P5W DH on Kayl Black Frozen SS http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=115040 I decided to leave unit off overnight and next day unmount the evap and see how things are underneath. Motherboard was dry under the insulation, a bit damp like on top of the sticky back foam pictured below

http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl..._P5WDH_004.jpg http://i4memory.com/phasechange/kayl..._P5WDH_006.jpg

Other than that everything looked fine. Removed insulation and plucked out the cpu and noticed these brown marks on back of cpu's gold contacts. Looks like a bit of corrosion, or something ?

Brown marks shown in below pictures mainly at

(click image for larger version)
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...ls/thumb_5.jpg

top left side from
4th contact on top row
3rd to 5th contact on 2nd row from top
5th contact on 3rd row from top

bottom right side from
7th contact from right side on bottom row
7th and 8th contact from right side on 2nd row from bottom row
7th contact from right side on 3rd row from bottom row
7th contact from right side on 4th row from bottom row

The location of the brown marks on these contacts correspond nearly the same to where the below pics show that the motherboard LGA pins have from the naked eye misaligned or the pin arrays are slightly darker in those pics than the rest. But the photos show they're lined up somewhat better i.e. here and here and here ?

Pictures 2, 4, 5, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 at http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...rks/index.html illustrate it best.

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W.../photos/2.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W.../photos/4.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W.../photos/5.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...photos/11.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...photos/13.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...photos/14.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...photos/15.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...photos/16.html

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5W...photos/17.html

The centre is covered in nail polish and dielectric grease which I have since cleaned off.

Both E6700 and P5W DH pictured above still work fine as i tested them both without problems. So was I lucky to catch this early before something bad could have happened ? Should i even bother cleaning off the cpu's gold contacts' corrosion ? And if i clean them how should i go about it ?

Guess there's a lession to be learnt, insulating LGA775 sockets is hard to do so using dielectric grease in all of the LGA775 cpu socket covering pins and all is probably a good idea for long term runs on sub zero cooling! I only used dielectric grease in the inner square socket but not on the LGA775 pins in the motherboard :o

For now plucked E6700 into one of my Intel D975XBX Badaxe boards for more extensive testing to ensure cpu is fine. So will have some E6700 + D975XBX Badaxe benchies later I hope :D

now i know...
one less thing to go wrong when i finally get phase

I thought the generally accepted rule was load grease on everything that could possibly suffer from condensation, most especially the pins.

Thats messed up. Thanks for the heads up, i was considering testing a p5b deluxe i just bought without any dielectric grease because i didnt want to clean up the mess if i ended up not liking the board. I'm sure i wouldnt have done that much damage over a couple hours but no condesation is better than some condensation.

There has to be a better way to insulate a LGA775 socket.

I ll see this weekend how it goes under my 6700, it has been some weeks with the phase change... :confused:

Yeah some folks say if you have an air tight seal you don't need dielectric grease, but how do you know if you have an air tight seal ?

I think i will use dielectric grease from now on all of the socket pins too!

Update: seems E6700 looks okay so far

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...me_load_tn.png

@3600mhz at 1.394v
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...prime_load.png

always use grease on everything, middle of socket, socket pins, bottom of CPU...insulate everything from air...

I assume that even applies on Vapochills with the heater on the back of the motherboard? Asetek specifically state not to use grease in the LGA775 socket, and the manual for the socket kit doesn't mention it at all! :eek:

Also, in this thread can someone PLEASE tell me exactly what FUGGER means by:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

On the backside there is nothing in the way except the small pins that must be trimmed like on all motherboards to prevent shorting.

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:confused:

Yeah i'm scared enough to always use it in future.. such a close call heh

luckily cpu is more than fine @3814mhz at 1.465v on Hydrocool 200EX 1/4" OD tubed water

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...prime_load.png

:)

First of all, let me extend my condolences....
I know she isn't dead but.... sorta like a diagnosis of cancer...

But do you really wanna put that chip into yet another good board?
Now I'm not sure about this... but isn't corrosion sorta like cancer or rust....
Aren't you now looking to spread it to the badaxe?

This is one of those interesting posts that will stick with me for a while...

I guess this is one reason why they run computer equipment in dehumidified rooms.

i don't think corrosion works like that unless moisture/water/condensation is present again..

Since i'm not on subzero cooling but plain 28+C water cooling it should be fine :)

eva2000: Are there any socket/clamshell heaters with that Kayl Black Frozen SS?

no heaters with Kayl unit.. it doesn't get that cold really - the evap read no load -44C, idle @4300mhz at 1.66v -38C and loaded -31C while windows as around -26C idle and 0C loaded

But guess air got in under neath the insulation..

hmm weird I used a 6400 on a P5W DH deluxe for 2-3 weeks before changing to a 6700 and noticed no signs of corrosion or anything anywhere and i am not using a drop of grease. I am using a chilly1 unit and for insulation I have chilly's foam ring, sticky foam type insulation on the mobo and liquid rubber to fill the tiny spots I have left out. I guess I had an airtight fit on the 6400, I just hope it stayed that way when i changed cpus. I spent like 3-4 hours making that insulation.

Yeah that's the only prob not knowing 100% whether you have an air tight seal...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Durzel

I assume that even applies on Vapochills with the heater on the back of the motherboard? Asetek specifically state not to use grease in the LGA775 socket, and the manual for the socket kit doesn't mention it at all! :eek:

Also, in this thread can someone PLEASE tell me exactly what FUGGER means by::confused:

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when the solder points on the back of the mobo stick out you need to trim them down some to prevent them from going through the insulation and make contact with the metal backing plate which would be very bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimmyz

when the solder points on the back of the mobo stick out you need to trim them down some to prevent them from going through the insulation and make contact with the metal backing plate which would be very bad.

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Ah right.. thanks!

What's the best way of trimming them down then? (complete newbie question) What tool(s) should I use?

George the corrosion happens because of these "opens".....Air comes and goes through them when the CPU is warm and then cold.....;)
Prommie for life.....:D :toast: BEST sealing ever......;)

http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/Temp/P5WDH_004.jpg

ah so i should further seal those gaps ? or the outer evap enclosure ?

Whatever must be done is around the socket.....You must firstly use Plastic spray that can handle at least -70*C around the socket's components (I even put this plastic spray underneath the CPU - it's tiny components - ) so as to be sure and afterwards place the foam tape around it - but firmly placed so as to minimize those "opens" - ....:)

I see. thanks for the tips :)

thank god cpu is fine

Some Super Pi action @3814mhz

32M single
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...8s765ms_tn.png

32M dual
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975...4min44s_tn.png

Unfortunately, Badaxe board's 2:3 divider doesn't really work that well compared to P5W DH. But Badaxe's 4:5 is better or more stable than P5W DH :)

Dielectric grease in your LGA755 socket, doesn't cause that any problems like some pins not making contact to the contactpoints on the CPU, or do I see this wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vassili

Dielectric grease in your LGA755 socket, doesn't cause that any problems like some pins not making contact to the contactpoints on the CPU, or do I see this wrong?

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The pins will displace the dielectric grease.

Well, i removed the SS, my 6700 remains like new, i used a lot of vaseline, look at the pics :

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3...0588wy8.th.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8...0589ft1.th.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7...0590zb8.th.jpg

Since i got the same corrosion as you with a 146 on my first dry ice session, i always use vaseline. :p:

Regards! :toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ^don.k's^

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7...0590zb8.th.jpg

Since i got the same corrosion as you with a 146 on my first dry ice session, i always use vaseline. :p:

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And how do you clean the socket? eg when you want to sell the board.

When i have to clean it, i will care of it, if i cant, i will sell it as no warranty board. But with compressed air i think you can. First heat up the vaselin so it gets liquid and then air removes it from the socket. I hope practise go as well as theory. :p:

Regards! :toast:

thanks don you reconfirm that i do need dielectric grease in the socket :)

I used dielectric grease with my Vapo and Intel XBX board on the whole of the cpu without any problems.

I've also returned at least two boards, one to intel and one to Asus that had obviously had dielectric grease in them without any problems. If you feel you have to clean it I would use CRC electric parts cleaner.

You're far from the only to get corrosion on LGA775. This is always how I roll nowadays. :p:

http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...1&d=1156634386

Vaseline is a good alternative to dielectric grease. A lot cheaper too.

For cleaning dieletric grease, any electronic contact cleaner will work.

im giong to be getting phase soon, but im worried about being able to return the board to a sellable state need that be the case.

so now i know you can get the vaseline out of the socket easy enough (good thing you can use vaseline too, i was worried about looking for then paying for dielectric grease)
but what about like the foam around the socket
dont most glue that down? that would not be easy to get up...

and so where most people put dielectric grease a bit around the foam too, that just sits out? like you oculd reach in the case and get your hand all mucky just from touching it? i guess iw ouldnt MIND, its just not what i expected

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndrewZorn

im giong to be getting phase soon, but im worried about being able to return the board to a sellable state need that be the case.

so now i know you can get the vaseline out of the socket easy enough (good thing you can use vaseline too, i was worried about looking for then paying for dielectric grease)
but what about like the foam around the socket
dont most glue that down? that would not be easy to get up...

and so where most people put dielectric grease a bit around the foam too, that just sits out? like you oculd reach in the case and get your hand all mucky just from touching it? i guess iw ouldnt MIND, its just not what i expected

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Dielectric grease isnt that hard to find. I didnt know till this last week that you could find it at the average auto parts store. I was worried about the exact same thing as you(i just got phase last week). I bought the p5b deluxe and i wasnt so sure if it was a keeper and didnt want to muck it all up with grease in the socket. I just didnt try it.

I dont think i'd put any board under phase unless i was sure i was going to keep it. The "foam" around the socket is neoprene or armaflex with an adhesive backing. You can peel it up after you set it down. I tested this on the back of the mobo before putting it around the socket. Its not as hard as it seems if you take all the right precautions. i freaked out myself a little but found it to be pretty straight foward. I used 1 layer of acrylic conformal coating, 2 layers of neoprene, and filled the socket with a lot of dielectric grease. So much so that i was worried it wouldnt boot. The board works just fine though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimmyz

when the solder points on the back of the mobo stick out you need to trim them down some to prevent them from going through the insulation and make contact with the metal backing plate which would be very bad.

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Can anyone give me an answer to this please?

Can someone tell me what I'm supposed to use to trim down the points on the back of the motherboard to stop them going through to the Vapo backing plate?

Surely you don't sand them down do you? That would be nearly impossible without making contact with the PCB and damaging it?

Wire cutters?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Dielectric grease isnt that hard to find. I didnt know till this last week that you could find it at the average auto parts store. I was worried about the exact same thing as you(i just got phase last week). I bought the p5b deluxe and i wasnt so sure if it was a keeper and didnt want to muck it all up with grease in the socket. I just didnt try it.

I dont think i'd put any board under phase unless i was sure i was going to keep it. The "foam" around the socket is neoprene or armaflex with an adhesive backing. You can peel it up after you set it down. I tested this on the back of the mobo before putting it around the socket. Its not as hard as it seems if you take all the right precautions. i freaked out myself a little but found it to be pretty straight foward. I used 1 layer of acrylic conformal coating, 2 layers of neoprene, and filled the socket with a lot of dielectric grease. So much so that i was worried it wouldnt boot. The board works just fine though.

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when you peel the stuff off, does it leave residue?

to clarify on the keepsies...
i dont ever plan on keeping ANY board i buy. i resell everythign eventually. something like this board should probably last me a year or so id hope, unless an insanely better baord comes out for a price i could afford solely off selling the current one.

ive heard about coating the parts in fingernail polish first, then attaching sticky stuff, so when you take it off you can use fingernail polish remover... ?

I also had similar corrosion problems using mine 6700 with the Prometeia.After 14 days of usage mine cpu looks as yours but its mine mistake since i didnt used as seal string as i should and the socket was "air wide" LOL at least CPU and motherboard work fine.I have used mine Opteron 170 for almost 8 months under the Prommie with no dielectric grease and i didnt noticed any corrosion but the 939 socket is easier to insulate than the LGA775..........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndrewZorn

when you peel the stuff off, does it leave residue?

ive heard about coating the parts in fingernail polish first, then attaching sticky stuff, so when you take it off you can use fingernail polish remover... ?

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There is a little residue just like with any adhesive but thats easily taken off with some alcohol. The fingernail polish would be the same job as the acrylic conformal coating i used and should come of easily with alcohol or nail polish remover.

Luberex is cool :D
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/lubdiellub.html

I once spent 5 hours cleaning DFI NF4 of Luberex using acetone/toothbrush and I don't wanna see it again :D But I guess that is the only way to be safe. One day DI session is fine without it, short term (1-2 days) SS is fine as well (thanks vapochill has heaters) but for example benching video card under DI is pain without luberex. I always run into condensation problems. Long term SS, luberex or similar is a must actually

Some people I know clean it using Fairy :D Chech this out for some fun :)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=81984

But I haven't found a good way to clean it, always something remains :slapass:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwi

Some people I know clean it using Fairy :D Chech this out for some fun :)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=81984

But I haven't found a good way to clean it, always something remains :slapass:

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Omg did i need a laugh. This dude is a genius.

We should all clean dielectric grease out of our socket like this. :slap:

http://bildez.lv/bildes/someonesick/...1133490865.jpg

Well that's one way of killing your board :)

Hope he left it to dry for a long time afterwards. :p

Actually that board still works just fine :)

So has anyone had problems uh GETTING THEIR CPU OUT OF THE SOCKET? I used vaseline with my conroe on dice and it's now stuck in the socket. No grease for me next time. Plus my entire board is a mess now.

Use a hair dryer to clean the Vaseline. It will melt when heat is applied.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by afireinside

So has anyone had problems uh GETTING THEIR CPU OUT OF THE SOCKET? I used vaseline with my conroe on dice and it's now stuck in the socket. No grease for me next time. Plus my entire board is a mess now.

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Maybe you used too much vaseline... Just get a bit with the finger, spread it carefully under the cpu, over the socket, and cover the center of the socket with more vaseline, you wont have problems ( i hadnt yet ). :)

Ok, I filled my P5W64 socket with plenty of dialetric grease (the white stuff you get with Vapochills) on the pins, the centre and the back of the CPU and my system wouldn't boot. Fans would spin, but there was no beep from the speaker. Tried it several times but it didn't boot once.

I tried removing what grease was on the back of the CPU and tried again but it still wouldn't boot.

Fearing the worst I assumed I had broken my board somehow, but after spending about 2 hours cleaning the grease out of the socket with isopropyl alcohol I stuck it under air cooling and it booted first time. :confused:

I'm also slightly worried that the small brush/bit of card I was using to apply the grease might've bent a pin or something, though I can't see anything obvious now its all cleaned up.

What am I doing wrong?

If there is too much dielectric grease in the socket, all the CPU's contact pads may not be making good contact with the socket pins. Also make sure the evaporator head is not putting any pressure on the surrounding caps or voltage regulators.

I know the evap head wasn't compressing anything, I can only guess that there was too much grease in the socket and even with the clamp down the CPU wasnt making contact with all of the pins :(

What do you suggest I do? Tempted to run it without grease as I have the Vapochill heaters on the board, but this thread worries me.

If I cant run it at all WITH grease, what am I supposed to do? :(

I ran my Vapochill last night without grease in the socket. Everything worked fine. Many of the top Japanese benchers do not use grease in the socket. In my case, I'm running the Vapochill for just a couple of days. After that, it's back to air. I'll use a hair dryer to remove any moisture that might be in the socket.

Hello again!

Well, I applied some grease all over the back of the CPU, and in the centre bit of the socket but I didn't put any on the pins this time. Hopefully the amount I put on the CPU should be enough to seal it.

Other good news is that the P5W64-WS Pro supports negative temperatures in the BIOS...

http://www.superficial.net/miscstuff...apols_bios.jpg

JingTing cooler on my Southbridge dropped my mobo temperatures by about 10 degrees :)