Here's a little teaser....

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09-11-2007, 04:59 AM
mAJORD

I didn't even see that quote.. now that's some good news!

The answer is yes, try the L1N !!
09-11-2007, 06:09 AM
Nedjo

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyosen

Still I'm confused whether B2 and BA is identical or not, but ok, time will tell:)

And nice to see such a specialized rig!!!
Go Go:up:

No, they are NOT!

BA is mass production ready B1, and B2 is yet to come... B2 will be for K10 what Thoroughbred-B was for K7... feature wise nothing change, but B2 will bring frequencyes over 2.5 GHz. In Q12K8 there will be another revision that will enable 3+ GHz frequencies on stock voltages. B2 will be able to do 3 GHz but with overvolting in general cases. 'of course there will always be cases where 3+ will be reached on stock voltage, but for mass production will need to wait B3, or what ever they decide to call it.
09-11-2007, 09:31 AM
s7e9h3n

The l1n bios didn't work...however, the custom bios by AMD for the Tyan board does...well sort of. I'll have more info later, but for now take a look at this and you'll see why this is driving me crazy trying to figure out.....:shrug: :shrug:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6318/1stbootvc2.jpg
09-11-2007, 09:32 AM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Just confirmed that B1 IS the stepping on currently available Barcelonas. We won't be seeing B2's until AMD starts ramping up the speeds on quads; as evidenced by Anandtech's EARLY Phenom chip. :)

nope.

BA is the fixed B1 rev that patches AMD errata 281 (stream, int, float performance). No production systems will use B1 chips. PERIOD. straight from AMD's mouth about 30 minutes ago from the field application engineer who has to support this. All review systems that you've seen have utilized a BIOS patch to workaround the errata which does in fact impact performance.

B2 is the mask revision for higher speed parts. AMD will announce these in Q4 and ship for rev. either at the end of Dec. or Jan. these will be 2.5 and 2.6 parts.

cheers,

dave
09-11-2007, 09:33 AM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by red

Why would AMD give TR, AT, various other sites B1 if they don't intend to ship that? That doesn't make any sense.

Maybe when Gary Key said it flies after 2.4GHz, B1 will be under 2.4, B1+ will be 2.4+ (with added IPC boost from various things, errata fix). That's my logic :)

that's up to marketing. production BA steppings have been and still are allocated for enterprise customers first. BAs should be sample available mid/late september for SMB.

dave
09-11-2007, 09:36 AM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Dave, it wasn't my intention to insinuate you were lying. I just think you or maybe your FAE may be mis-informed. :) I feel I have to clarify a couple of things though:

1. There isn't such a thing as a "BA" stepping. Every stepping I've ever seen (along with everybody I've spoken to about this issue) is a letter followed by a number. Maybe it's not the stepping your speaking of...instead, could it be the revision #?

i'd hardly suspect a Sr field engineer from AMD who works with some of the larger enterprise customers in the NE and NY regions to be spoofing the proof. ;) matter of fact, i've confirmed it through secondary sources at Sun and Dell. they have recieved BA stepping parts for their production systems. Not B1s.

[

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

2. Steppings aren't identified by production date. As a matter of fact, the production date doesn't give too much info about the cpu itself. Rather, it's the first five letters/numbers found on the second line of AMD cpu's which give much more pertinent info than the date of manufacturing.

not going to argue this point. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

3. Almost ALL final/production level hardware - especially cpu's - contain erratas. These erratas are deemed "acceptable" by the manufacturers as they only affect VERY SPECIFIC situations. If there's a huge problem in the chips, they simply won't be released -> as with the case of the B0 Barcelonas. Successive revisions of the cpu's are designed to fix certain erratas, but clock-to-clock performance shouldn't be affected.

this errata wasn't acceptable as it does significantly impact performance for FPU, Int, and Stream applications. the BIOS workarounds unnecesarily hamper performance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

On another note, I wasn't able to pick up the s3992 as I had originally planned.....:( .....

want one? btw, the 3992-E or 2915-E are the boards you want.

cheers,

dave
09-11-2007, 09:38 AM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

The l1n bios didn't work...however, the custom bios by AMD for the Tyan board does...well sort of. I'll have more info later, but for now take a look at this and you'll see why this is driving me crazy trying to figure out.....:shrug: :shrug:

hehehe.... :)

again, not a big fan of the L1N in regards to that. additionally, no dual Ht and power planes. :)

dave
09-11-2007, 09:41 AM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

LOL....:wth:

I could get these to fit, but the problem is the mounting bracket. Seems as if the 1u mounting hole spacing is MUCH wider than the standard opterons'. If I want to use these coolers, I'll have to fab a hold-down with the proper mounting holes. I guess for now, I'll just have to use the stock coolers the board came with.....

it uses the 4.1mm mounting pitch vs. the 3.5mm pitch from the other parts.

I've got some Dynatron A84G's you can use.

dave
09-11-2007, 09:45 AM
BadNizze

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_graham

nope.

BA is the fixed B1 rev that patches AMD errata 281 (stream, int, float performance). No production systems will use B1 chips. PERIOD. straight from AMD's mouth about 30 minutes ago from the field application engineer who has to support this. All review systems that you've seen have utilized a BIOS patch to workaround the errata which does in fact impact performance.

B2 is the mask revision for higher speed parts. AMD will announce these in Q4 and ship for rev. either at the end of Dec. or Jan. these will be 2.5 and 2.6 parts.

cheers,

dave

So we will see a inproved preformace with reatail systems! Good to know ;) I supose that dualcore K10 (Kuma?) will be B2 aswell? Just looked at asus Rd790 borad, looks nice but not "finished" Hope to see a Dual K10 borad from Dfi to, now THAT would rock! In the mean time I just have to play with my new 6400+, hopfully tomorow ;)
09-11-2007, 09:54 AM
alayashu

read it wrong, ignore:)

btw Dave, I assume the 3ghz Phenom X4 (the one Rahul got its hands on hehe) will be B2? or B3?
can B2 provide a 3ghz X4 under 120W TDP?
09-11-2007, 10:10 AM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNizze

So we will see a inproved preformace with reatail systems! Good to know ;) I supose that dualcore K10 (Kuma?) will be B2 aswell? Just looked at asus Rd790 borad, looks nice but not "finished" Hope to see a Dual K10 borad from Dfi to, now THAT would rock! In the mean time I just have to play with my new 6400+, hopfully tomorow ;)

how much measurable performance in an ideal platform is up for grabs. 5% would be expected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alayashu

I believe the Phenoms will be B2 from start, no BA - as current retail Opterons got.
In the end, current flawed Opterons provide good performance for server tasks
so this was the right option for them, even if this situation damaged their reputation
among normal computer geeks.

btw Dave, I assume the 3ghz Phenom X4 (the one Rahul got its hands on hehe) will be B2? or B3?
can B2 provide a 3ghz X4 under 120W TDP?

phenoms are B2.

as for what Rahul is working with, god only knows.

cheers,

dave
09-11-2007, 10:30 AM
prostoman

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNizze

So we will see a inproved preformace with reatail systems! Good to know ;) I supose that dualcore K10 (Kuma?) will be B2 aswell? Just looked at asus Rd790 borad, looks nice but not "finished" Hope to see a Dual K10 borad from Dfi to, now THAT would rock! In the mean time I just have to play with my new 6400+, hopfully tomorow ;)

If you wanna see the new DFI board for the K10, then you should look here :up:
09-11-2007, 10:56 AM
Sparky

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

The l1n bios didn't work...however, the custom bios by AMD for the Tyan board does...well sort of. I'll have more info later, but for now take a look at this and you'll see why this is driving me crazy trying to figure out.....:shrug: :shrug:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6318/1stbootvc2.jpg

At first I thought it looked fine then I saw the one running at 800MHz... lol? Looks like one is in powersave mode? Or maybe the bios is still glitchy? Or CPU-Z is a bit off? You know more about this stuff than I do :shrug:
09-11-2007, 11:18 AM
zakelwe

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_graham

nope.

BA is the fixed B1 rev that patches AMD errata 281 (stream, int, float performance). No production systems will use B1 chips. PERIOD. straight from AMD's mouth about 30 minutes ago from the field application engineer who has to support this. All review systems that you've seen have utilized a BIOS patch to workaround the errata which does in fact impact performance.

B2 is the mask revision for higher speed parts. AMD will announce these in Q4 and ship for rev. either at the end of Dec. or Jan. these will be 2.5 and 2.6 parts.

cheers,

dave

It seems strange that AMD have been shipping BA chips to customers for a while and then supply bugged B1 chips to the reviewers fixed by a BIOS patch. Something does not add up there.

Regards

Andy
09-11-2007, 11:32 AM
Movieman

I have an idea:
Steve and Dave, you 2 guys need to get together for a weekend and I think at the end many issues would be solved.
Dave, weather is probably better in Cal than the monsoon we've had for the last 3 days..
Go west young man, Go west!:D
09-11-2007, 11:33 AM
PhilDoc

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakelwe

It seems strange that AMD have been shipping BA chips to customers for a while and then supply bugged B1 chips to the reviewers fixed by a BIOS patch. Something does not add up there.

Regards

Andy

I'm a little supprised at this also, but maybe they want to keep true benchmarks secret just a little longer
09-11-2007, 12:57 PM
gallag

lol, give it up, for the last year every time some one has posted about the slight advantage k10 brings there have been people saying noooooooooo just wait and it will be amazing. well the time for waiting is over, The NDA is over and people pretending that the systems amd are sending out for reviews 2 days before nda ends are pre production es bugged chipes kidding them selves

K10 is good, Its not great like many thought or like amd promised but as of today WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET live with it
09-11-2007, 01:19 PM
gone_fishin

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

lol, give it up, for the last year every time some one has posted about the slight advantage k10 brings there have been people saying noooooooooo just wait and it will be amazing. well the time for waiting is over, The NDA is over and people pretending that the systems amd are sending out for reviews 2 days before nda ends are pre production es bugged chipes kidding them selves

K10 is good, Its not great like many thought or like amd promised but as of today WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET live with it

That was like a hot knife through fud flavored butter, spot on. :clap:
09-11-2007, 01:20 PM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakelwe

It seems strange that AMD have been shipping BA chips to customers for a while and then supply bugged B1 chips to the reviewers fixed by a BIOS patch. Something does not add up there.

Regards

Andy

there's a difference between qualifying a platform and shipping for revenue. that gap can be SIGNIFICANT in time. I'm not shocked at all. I know quite a few folks that are qualifying their products on pre-release intel silicon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilDoc

I'm a little supprised at this also, but maybe they want to keep true benchmarks secret just a little longer

lol....

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallag

lol, give it up, for the last year every time some one has posted about the slight advantage k10 brings there have been people saying noooooooooo just wait and it will be amazing. well the time for waiting is over, The NDA is over and people pretending that the systems amd are sending out for reviews 2 days before nda ends are pre production es bugged chipes kidding them selves

K10 is good, Its not great like many thought or like amd promised but as of today WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET live with it

god, you're a tool. what you see is not what you'll get.

cheers,

dave
09-11-2007, 01:20 PM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

I have an idea:
Steve and Dave, you 2 guys need to get together for a weekend and I think at the end many issues would be solved.
Dave, weather is probably better in Cal than the monsoon we've had for the last 3 days..
Go west young man, Go west!:D

would love to. Steve and i will definitely be catching up.

dave
09-11-2007, 01:23 PM
hawkeyefan

Quote:

Originally Posted by gone_fishin

That was like a hot knife through fud flavored butter, spot on. :clap:

Nothing in life is so black-and-white.:fact:

Bet this will look much different in six months.
09-11-2007, 01:38 PM
PhilDoc

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_graham

there's a difference between qualifying a platform and shipping for revenue. that gap can be SIGNIFICANT in time. I'm not shocked at all. I know quite a few folks that are qualifying their products on pre-release intel silicon.

lol....

god, you're a tool. what you see is not what you'll get.

cheers,

dave

First it was all I could think of for a reason. The chips they sent to Anand etc are not for qualitying as I take it, they were for review. I can understand as you said qualifying, that understandable, but why do that for a review? That make little sense to me.
09-11-2007, 01:49 PM
dave_graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilDoc

First it was all I could think of for a reason. The chips they sent to Anand etc are not for qualitying as I take it, they were for review. I can understand as you said qualifying, that understandable, but why do that for a review? That make little sense to me.

trust me...had that same question today....and just a shake of the head, a meager grimace, and...nothing.

Marketing evidently doesn't understand the "best foot forward" principle.

*shrug*

what are you going to do? The customers who do need the BA's are getting them and they're not "broken"

Btw, Phildoc, the "you're a tool" comment was not directed at you. I seem to have a significant troll presence in AMD threads and yet, i don't seem to be crapping in theirs. I appreciate the questions you ask...I like trying to answer hard questions because in the process, i get to learn answers that aren't as cut 'n dry as they might appear. :)

cheers,

dave
09-11-2007, 01:51 PM
PhilDoc

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_graham

trust me...had that same question today....and just a shake of the head, a meager grimace, and...nothing.

Marketing evidently doesn't understand the "best foot forward" principle.

*shrug*

what are you going to do? The customers who do need the BA's are getting them and they're not "broken"

cheers,

dave

And that's really what counts in the long run.
09-11-2007, 01:54 PM
informal

Thanks Dave and S7 for still participating in the thread :).The only reasons why majority of us are still reading this thread.

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