Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

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08-19-2008, 01:37 PM
gymenii

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2839/29913025yq5.png

Just an idea :)
08-19-2008, 01:59 PM
JohnZS

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

JohnZS: The most Extreme thing about your Quad seems to be the sensors. My Q6600 isn't great but the Distance to TjMax which represents the raw data coming from the sensors only varies by about 4 or 5 degrees at idle from core to core. Your center two cores show a difference of 14! :eek:

All I can say is good luck to Intel to try and come up with a simple, user friendly formula to cover the wide variety of sensors that I've seen. Trying to cover a difference of 14 is stretching RealTemp's capabilities for covering up this mess.

If you're bored John could you try running a test with the calibration factors you're using? Run at whatever your normal MHz / core voltage is. Turn on the RT logging feature and set it to 1 second. Run 1 minute idle, followed by about 2 minutes of Prime95 small FFTs on all cores and then back to idle for a minute. E-mail or PM me the log file when you're done.

It is normal during this test for core0 / core1 to closely track each other and then for core2 / core3 to closely track each other. Core2/core3 being about 5C less while running Prime compared to core0/core1 is also fairly normal. I'm just curious to see how all these cores track each other during transition from idle to full load and back again.

Prime95 v25.6 32 bit
Prime95 v25.6 64 bit

One theory I have is that when a processor has badly mismatched sensors, Windows XP or maybe the processor itself will schedule a bigger work load on the core that reports the lowest temperature. When uncorrected, core2 reports that it is running so cool that it will get to do some extra work. To test for this run Prime95 and for Number of torture test threads to run enter 2. This will run 2 instances of Prime but they will be constantly spread to your 4 cores so no one core gets too hot. Do a CTRL+ALT+DELETE and bring up the Task Manager and you should get to see what core is getting the biggest chunk of work. I'm not sure if that's important but I found it kind of interesting.

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/9...imetestcu0.png

My core2 reads highest Distance to TjMax so it gets to work the hardest. The load seems to be balanced for both sets of cores. Core0/core1 share half the load and core2/core3 share the other half.

I guess that is why they call them Extreme Editions :D
You will have a PM coming your way shortly, I was idle for ~minute then maxed out all 4 cores 100% in Prime95 64bit Small FFT's for around 2mins.

You will probably understand the results more than myself, but it looks like my calibration is useless at over 50C, all cores are within 1-3C of each other until 50C is met, then a "divide" between cores 0+1 and 2+3 is visible (0+1 running hotter than 2+3), yet when I take the stress off the CPU and it cools down, at around 49C the numbers all level off again.

Now get this, this is my 2nd QX9650, I had to RMA my 1st one which I purchased in December 07 because Core 3 kept Prochotting and causing the PC to freeze under high load. AND the sensors were worse.

Needless to say my replacement was stable and still had dodgy sensors but stability is all that matters really.

Anyway PM enroute. Thanks for your help and I have seen your theory in practice. With wPRIME one of my cores lags behind the rest, although wPRime calls it Core3, I belive it is Core1 as that one runs the hottest at calibrated settings...now if only intel released a calibration tool for the microcode or something....maybe integrate with RealTemp :up:

John
08-19-2008, 02:49 PM
unclewebb

RealTemp 2.74

This is just a quick version to show what RealTemp could look like.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3486/rt274ld9.png

It's available in a separate folder from the normal beta stuff:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...lTempBeta2.zip

I dumped all of the extras so just the model is displayed. The extras like Intel, Quad, Extreme, Pentium and ES aren't really that important. There's enough room in the middle for the extra info and the button is full size, easy to understand and use.

I kind of like your idea gymenii. I'll see what feedback I get about this. I figure if two different people in the same forum on the same page didn't understand that my small button existed then I need to do something to get people's attention. Of course, they were both from Canada! It might just be something in the water. :rofl: (No need to flame me, I live here too.)

My competition has a new version out:
Core Temp 0.99.2

It has a few features like a Vista Widget, graphing abilities and G15 keyboard support that RealTemp doesn't.
08-19-2008, 03:58 PM
Lu523

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

I kind of like your idea gymenii. I'll see what feedback I get about this. I figure if two different people in the same forum on the same page didn't understand that my small button existed then I need to do something to get people's attention.

I did not know it was there until I did some reading here. I think I like the cleaner look without the info in the button though.
08-19-2008, 04:08 PM
BeastNotro

Unclewebb

You need to do this or i will be using core temp.. :)

You need to add the G15 implementation for the LCD, right now i can see my core temps and CPU load on my G15 keyboard it is v2 of the G15 model.
08-19-2008, 04:28 PM
unclewebb

I'll put G15 support on the things to do list. Maybe next month. Personally I also like the small info button. Labelling it with the international i symbol might bring it to people's attention better. Final decision on what to do will be based on user feedback.
08-19-2008, 04:32 PM
BeastNotro

Yes i like the little i = info button idea and thks for the G15 looking into it for me. Its just a cool feature as when playing games and such i can see my temps on my LCD and i like real-temp better then core-temp .. so get on it faster if you can.... :) :)

thks take u time as what i do for now is run core-temp when playing games so i can see temps and cpu load on my g15 lcd screen.

Also for the info button .. add text to state press here 1-6 times for all info abut CPU.. as one click . some ppl are not bright ya know..... :)

Oh and core-temp also shows on lcd screen my ghz and what i am at 8x450 and Vid too . plus it says Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (kentsfield) on LCD to... that cool features .. dude

Maybe i take a pic and show ya it. if you not have a G15 keyboard.

Edit:

Here is picture of it on my LCD screen.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i5...x/IMG_1082.jpg
08-19-2008, 04:42 PM
loonym

I like the small button too, I personally don't care how or if you label it. The ones that need labels and mouse overs are the same ones that will be here asking 'how do I calibrate it?' or 'what do I believe?' :p:
08-19-2008, 04:49 PM
Ol'Baditude

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

I'll put G15 support on the things to do list. Maybe next month. Personally I also like the small info button. Labelling it with the international i symbol might bring it to people's attention better. Final decision on what to do will be based on user feedback.

I couldn't care less TBH. But if you were to do something about it, please keep the button the same size and maybe put a little "i" in it or something. That would do the trick and remain unobtrusive at the same time.
08-19-2008, 04:57 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by RejZoR

http://shrani.si/f/2k/C9/40Q3qO25/rtmoreinfo.png

That button is downright ugly! :down:

I agree with loonym, keep it the same or add an "i".
08-19-2008, 05:10 PM
Fungus

Why have the button at all, why not just display all the info, with a slightly bigger dialog box.
08-19-2008, 05:31 PM
gymenii

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7815/rtoffit5.png

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7698/rtonin2.png

Square button looks better :)
08-19-2008, 07:14 PM
unclewebb

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymenii

Square button looks better :)

Good, cause I don't know how to program round buttons in Visual C++. :up:

Quote:

That button is downright ugly!

I've tried to remain neutral but I tend to agree with you and loonym. I prefer clean and simple even if it does take a user a month to figure it out. Maybe I could build in a pop up that goes off after a month of use if you haven't clicked on that button yet.

Quote:

Why have the button at all, why not just display all the info, with a slightly bigger dialog box.

I could do that but most of the info hiding under that button is pretty much useless anyhow. When I'm running the crap out of my E8400, trying to get a good 1M SuperPi time, I could care a less about CPUID, VID or APIC ID. I want to know temps and MHz. It's all interesting stuff that you look at once or twice but most of it can be ignored. I like the small and clean Mini Mode and don't care to look at too much extra beyond the important stuff, MHz and temps.

RejZoR has version 2.74 with his idea of what that button should look like. The next release of RealTemp will go back to a simple button with maybe an i added at some point in the future. If I get bored in September then maybe I'll buy a G15 and modify RT to use it.
08-19-2008, 07:30 PM
BeastNotro

The one best thing i love about Realtemp is that you can see what the MAX the cores go to and always know what your limits are with your CPU when Benching ... i don't recall any other program that does this.

So if your benching and go for a smoke and come back in and thinking. damn how high did it go..... no worries as Realtemp shows it there for that benchmark your doing.

Sure all other programs may ahve a logging system and so dies realtemp, but heck i rather see it right there . that minute .. as for minimum though ... hmm thats not really needed to see as you can see what your temps are anyways at bootup and when idling.

If i had some extra cash right now i send some your away UncleWebb.

Also if you want .. i can be the http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...guinea-pig.jpg for the G15 .. send what ya think will work... tear apart coretemp to see what they using.
08-19-2008, 07:53 PM
unclewebb

At the moment, I'm just waiting to see what Intel has to say on Thursday about TjMax, etc. Depending on how that goes, maybe I'll start working on project G15 sooner than September. I've had a couple of requests for it so I've been thinking about it but haven't felt like working too hard on RealTemp this summer.

On a Quad core while gaming, are your temps even important? My Q6600 barely breaks a sweat when gaming and core temperature is not an issue. What max temp does RealTemp report during what game?
08-19-2008, 07:59 PM
loonym

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

Maybe I could build in a pop up that goes off after a month of use if you haven't clicked on that button yet.

:rofl::ROTF::rofl:
08-19-2008, 08:20 PM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

Maybe I could build in a pop up that goes off after a month of use if you haven't clicked on that button yet.

Now that is Usability at its finest! :rofl::ROTF::rofl::ROTF:

edit: damn, loonym beat me to punch. :D
08-19-2008, 08:59 PM
unclewebb

I'll try to keep 'er subtle for you guys! :D

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5135/subtleeu3.png
08-19-2008, 10:23 PM
RejZoR

Well, if you ask me i'd ditch all the other info, slightly enlarge that area and just display FSB x multi and final frequency + full CPU name and remove the button altogether.
But thats just me...

EDIT:
Just a hint, your competition just updated TjMax for my E4300. It's now showing correct temperature by default (TjMax 85)...
08-19-2008, 10:37 PM
unclewebb

Quote:

Originally Posted by RejZoR

Just a hint, your competition just updated TjMax for my E4300. It's now showing correct temperature by default (TjMax 85)...

Now that's funny! For those that haven't followed this as long as I have, when the E4300 first came out CoreTemp used TjMax=85C and the user community cried and twisted his arm so he jumped on the 100C bandwagon in his next release. This had everyone believing that the E4300 liked to run hot even though reducing on chip cache makes a CPU run cooler. I have no idea why he'd switch back now.

Over on the SpeedFan forum, they practically vote on what TjMax should be. Who ever twists the programmers arm the hardest wins!

The Intel IDF can't come soon enough to clean up this mess that Intel created by not properly releasing full disclosure of these sensors on day 1.

RejZoR, I'll save some of your ideas for a B version of RealTemp that I mentioned a while ago. Once the kids are finished summer vacation, my RealTemp productivity will go up.
08-19-2008, 10:57 PM
RejZoR

Well i don't get it why Intel kept TjMax such a secret. I mean it's not a blueprint of their cores, just a temperature reading for THEIR OWN CPU's. It's ridiculous if you look at the situation really...
08-20-2008, 02:03 AM
ChrisZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by gymenii

Square button looks better :)

Yup. +1
08-20-2008, 03:43 AM
JohnZS

Are intel finally going to disclose the TjMax value today?
08-20-2008, 05:07 AM
BeastNotro

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

At the moment, I'm just waiting to see what Intel has to say on Thursday about TjMax, etc. Depending on how that goes, maybe I'll start working on project G15 sooner than September. I've had a couple of requests for it so I've been thinking about it but haven't felt like working too hard on RealTemp this summer.

On a Quad core while gaming, are your temps even important? My Q6600 barely breaks a sweat when gaming and core temperature is not an issue. What max temp does RealTemp report during what game?

Oh mine hardly reaches 40C-43C max on core 0 and of course the rest are lower by about 2-3C.. in games.

Just it is a cool feature (that coretemp has thusfar) for the LCD for those who have such a keyboard as then ppl with such a keyboard can keep an eye on things ... just cool is all and i like it..... :)... so whenever your ready to try it out .. let me know and i will test for you.

For those who want to see what it looks like on the LCD look at my above post on this page.
08-20-2008, 08:01 AM
unclewebb

BeastNotro: That's the problem with a Quad. Most games don't take advantage of all the processing power that's available so the cores run pretty cool in most games. I think the world could survive without G15 keyboard support from RealTemp but I'll probably do it anyhow because it will be interesting learning how to program it. My wife is heading back to work so I'll be able to get a big keyboard into the house without having to listen to, "WHAT'S THAT?" :D I kind of like my present Logitech so don't have that burning desire for an upgrade. Maybe Ol'Baditude will take it off my hands when I'm done with it, unless I like it.

I thought the TjMax conference was scheduled for Thursday at 1:40. I'll see if I can find a link to that. Every computer website will be rushing to break the news so I'm not too worried about not hearing about it.

Edit: Here's the official class:
TMTS001

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