Nvidia 270, 290 and GX2 roll out in November

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Originally Posted by Lestat

I still find it quite hilarious, but bad for Nvidia that after, how many years?, ATI brings out 2 cards, ok now 3 with the 4870X2 that can beat Nvidia. The aforementioned 2 (4850/4870) are not ahead of nvidia by only a smidgen, they win only on price, so everyone starts calling nvidia dead, they are doomed, omg nvidia lost!!

the fact is boys and girls, ATI has not produced a competetive card since the 9600/9700/9800 series. the X800/X850 series was nice too but all along nvidia was raking in the profits and hearts and minds of PC enthusiasts.

Nvidia has lost the race 1 time in nearly 15 years, and people are dooming nvidia, and frankly all this bashing by the community and websites is truly hurting nvidia.

Now granted nvidia has hurt themselves, no one will deny that, with their fixed pricing, yada yada yada, and their mobile chipset solder issue, but to label them losers in the video card race is just total bullsh|t.

I like any card that has the power to do what i want it to do, and frnakly i like the GTX260/280 and the 4850/4870, so in my mind everyone wins.
but this continued smashing, raking over the coals, and literal market killing talk about nvidia has got to stop.

ATI, 1 time in the last, oh 6 years produces a card that has FINALLY overtaken Nvidia (4870X2), and all the sudden ATI is king.

this is the hilarious, and you people flip flopping, and bashing and raising ATI from the grave are hilarious.
ATI is in FAR FAR worse shape than nvidia E V E R will be financially.

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You have it wrong, it's not because of nvidia's competitiveness in performance that people are downplaying their future.

It's because of their business practices, the whole failure rate lawsuits and general behaviour.
They keep renaming the same chips again and again and again (and yet again with the new gso and gtx150)

This does not bode well for the enthusiast image of a performance vga company.
ATI may only have became performance leaders recently but at least they are advancing their cards

Persoanlly (no offense), but reading some fanboi comments or anti-INQ comments here are worse than reading stuff that Charlie wrote over at the INQ. At least his articles are well thought-out and more entertaining to read. Charlie is an awesome guy and I love him for trying so hard to bring us the first-tier rumors/specs/official stuff. You know, the INQ predicted the split-up of AMD into the Foundry Company many months ago. Sometimes they really do a good job.

Let the :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing continue once again here about the INQ! And by those bananas, I mean female dogs if you know the real definition of it.

ATI and NV have leap froged eachother for the performance crown threw the last decade with only a couple exeptions, to say that ATI has not been competetive untill now is just fantasy. NV had more total time on top but they lost that postion many times, thow short lived. NV will of course leap there way to the top agian as always but the question is, how long do we have to wait for them to move forward and out of damage control.

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Originally Posted by Lestat

the fact is boys and girls, ATI has not produced a competetive card since the 9600/9700/9800 series. the X800/X850 series was nice too but all along nvidia was raking in the profits and hearts and minds of PC enthusiasts.

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You forget the great x1800-x19x0 series. Better performance, and hdr+AA.
The only fail in this years for ati was the r600.

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Originally Posted by Insanity

And still with such a R&D budget, all they gave us the last two years are G80/G92 crapolla (don't get me wrong, they were great chips, but, hell, 2 years on the same tech?). Talk about innovation right here...

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Exactly!!!

That's why I like ATI and AMD as a company: even though their competitors are 10x their size (even more so for AMD and Intel I think) with 10x their resources, they are able to hang tight and even beat them with barely any budget at all. :up:

For this reason, I usually like the underdogs.

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Originally Posted by Stukov

I believe the quote you have in there, is wrong. Not wrong maybe a few years ago, but wrong right now. Dual GPU solutions aren't perfect (like say the 4870 X2) but they are still pretty damn good if you know what you are getting.

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I definitely agree. I have enjoyed the 4870x2 and think it is a fine piece of hardware. I haven't noticed any microstutter and the performance is great.

But it's true that these cards aren't perfect and IMO they really need some driver work. When they work with a game they are great, but when they are bugged it can be quite frustrating.

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And regardless of what you or others think, multi-GPUs are going to be the 'way of the future' at least, at AMD. But you are right that with that software becomes the most important part. Drivers will sink or swim these, but they are here to stay. I also think the R800 is actually uses MCM and might not have to use AFR/Pooled memory.

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I think multi-gpu is the way of the future and I think what we are seeing now in software and hardware development is just one step on the way toward using dozens or hundreds of gpu cores seamlessly. You can see the writing on the wall with larabee, but I imagine that all three manufacturers are working towards this goal.

Intel is 10 times bigger then AMD + Nvidia together.
AMD is bigger then Nvidia but it produces CPU´s...

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Originally Posted by Lestat

...
ATI is in FAR FAR worse shape than nvidia E V E R will be financially.

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Never say never:
from TGdaily: Apple suggests Nvidia is dishonest about GPU failures

Nvidia’s stock followed the general market trend this morning and was down more than 5% to $6.56. Nvidia’s market capitalization has dropped to about $3.66 billion – down from about $10 billion when the GPU issue was announced.
AMD is at 2.21B. NVDA is today3.57b
ATi is the only reason AMD is making money right now, and they are taking serious market share from NVDA. Intel could buy NVDA out right. Intel cant buy AMD.
So a delay is not so good, on new power efficient cards. Would like to see a 290.

what intrest does apple have with bringing down NV? Accusations like that from a comp. like Apple can be vary harmfull.

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Originally Posted by Final8ty

What a joker. :ROTF:

The 1900xt was a great card & could do AA & HDR at the same time & had the better IQ at the time.

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Sure the 1800 had a smidgen of better performance, but it came out like 6 months later. Thats a huge delay. When you consider all things, they were behind in technology when you look at this postponement. If you have the advantage of knowing exactly how much your performance your competition offers, you better release a faster product and not just a little bit, alot.

ATI business practices haven't been the best either like everyone is claiming them to be. Paper launches actually effect consumer. Unlike this renaming stuff that really effects no one. Delays have also been pretty bad, also their policy on factory overclocked cards, have hurt their warranty policy in the past. They were also involved in the price fixing issue. People just ignore this to bash on NV.

Really all this stuff that people bash on NV recently does not effect them. Are any of us going to be confused with the NV naming scheme. I doubt any of us are that honorable that we are worried about the retarded consumer who doesn't do any research and buys a videocard at bestbuy at the maximum price.

ATI has commited way more attrocities than NV. E.g soft launches and delays up the wazoo, are way worse than anything NV has done. You might bring up the recall on the recent NV chips, but you can say something similar of ATI for the xbox 360 fiasco. They obviously had a role in the heatsink setup of the graphic chip in the 360, as they designed the GPU for it. They should have not allowed MS to release the GPU with such a flawed cooling system. It is widely known it is the graphic chip of the 360 which causes the biggest red ring of death.

I also think the 1800--> 1900 was a kick in the pants to those who bought it. Their was only a 3 month span between the products and 1800 owners had a much less valuable card after the 1900's release.

Another big deal is the warranty problem in the past. Look at all the partners that have lifetime warranty with NV. People say wow NV was lucky to get those partners, but people fail to realize that much of this comes from NV more relaxed issue on overclocking. ATI didn't allow overclocking at one point.

I honestly think releasing the purposely releasing this shady rumour of 480 shaders was incredibly underhanded. If NV did this people would call them scum. If ATI does it, its called smart business. This site is so sour with NV hate obnoxious.

Before you call me a fanboy, I own a 4870 x2 card and a crossfire motherboard. I would even take a picture to prove it since some of you conspiracy theorist might say I don't own the card and all NV fanboys are liars.

ATI fanboys are even worse than any NV fanboy can be and the proof is in this thread. Charlie writes the worst biased tabloid trash in the hardware world. He insults, lies, insinuates and is arrogant as hell. He is a terrible writer and yet he is still praised by some of the ATI fanboys. Their is not a single writer that has the same level of NV hate and the reason for this is simple. Noone would listen to him, because NV fanboys would not tolerate such written trash and obvious bias. To those that says he is right, you got to be right when you publish so many rumors.

OMG I would be so happy if I never heard the word fanboy again. Its getting so old......and then to take it to a whole nother level and start saying things like NV fanboys are better than ATI fanboys bla bla bla bla.......:down:

People shouting Fanboy are fanboy's themselves with no other defense, in my opinion. This thread turned to crap. Bunch of whining wussies.

ATi fan boys are much more rampant and outspoken then they were before the 48XX series. Before it was a loyalty thing...wanting ATi to relive the good old days of the 9XXX series of GPU's and fight the evil empire! Now that ATi has the fastest card on the block they are deadly afraid to lose that performance edge (Queue this thread, its topic and posts.).

Personally I find this entire generation of graphics to be a big disappointment. None of the graphics cards out right now show a big enough of a leap from the last gen. Quad CF might be nice if it actually scaled consistently in more than a couple games. I still do not trust ATi's driver compatibility with games, especially new titles. I don't want to wait a month or more after a game comes out for ATi to finally release a driver that works properly.

That is why I find this news to be pretty exciting, I really want to see what 3x 290's can do. The next step from either company is always exciting because it brings new possibilities. I will ignore INQ's opinion on the matter because it counts for squat.

im just catching up with this thread but do we know what cards they are renaming to the 270 and 290?

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Originally Posted by v_rr

Intel is 10 times bigger then AMD + Nvidia together.
AMD is bigger then Nvidia but it produces CPU´s...

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Bigger how?

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amd 2.31B
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NVDA 3.79B
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=INTC 85.4B

Market Cap today if you go back a few months the gap is even bigger.

Nobody even knows if they are. There are no sources to back up these claims. It might be a completely new card, it might be they are refreshing the 260 and 280 series, or it might be this is a "load" again. It was basically nothing but a rant filled with insults. Nothing more. Who knows, maybe the guy forgot to take his prozac or something.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amd Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08): 6.09B

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NVDA Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08): 2.19B

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=INTC Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08): 77.81B

Market Cap on these days means close to nothing otherwise Nvidia is bigger then General Motors and almost equal to Ford:

Ford Motor Co.
Market Cap (intraday)5: 4.50B
Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08)3: 148.68B
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=F

I wish we had something more than useless rumours from the least reliable source on the internet. I am about to decide (in the next hour) whether to unwrap my GTX280 or sell it on ebay and wait for a good deal on a 4870x2 or wait for a possible GX2 card. My biggest reason for unwrapping it is that so far no water cooling vendors have picked up the ball to produce a discrete waterblock solution for the x2 and the full cover blocks are too expensive. If Dtek would release a 4870x2 unisink I would probably go for a 4870x2. Same price (when a good deal can be found) and WAY faster. Uses more power though especially at idle which is a problem since I only have a 620 watt PSU.

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Nobody even knows if they are. There are no sources to back up these claims. It might be a completely new card, it might be they are refreshing the 260 and 280 series, or it might be this is a "load" again. It was basically nothing but a rant filled with insults. Nothing more. Who knows, maybe the guy forgot to take his prozac or something.

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Sort of...But at least the use of 2*0 name suggest its just an refresh, otherwise they would likely move to 3*0 naming scheme or something.

Like you said, we can only speculate by now. Lets wait and see...

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

Sure the 1800 had a smidgen of better performance, but it came out like 6 months later. Thats a huge delay. When you consider all things, they were behind in technology when you look at this postponement. If you have the advantage of knowing exactly how much your performance your competition offers, you better release a faster product and not just a little bit, alot.

ATI business practices haven't been the best either like everyone is claiming them to be. Paper launches actually effect consumer. Unlike this renaming stuff that really effects no one. Delays have also been pretty bad, also their policy on factory overclocked cards, have hurt their warranty policy in the past. They were also involved in the price fixing issue. People just ignore this to bash on NV.

Really all this stuff that people bash on NV recently does not effect them. Are any of us going to be confused with the NV naming scheme. I doubt any of us are that honorable that we are worried about the retarded consumer who doesn't do any research and buys a videocard at bestbuy at the maximum price.

ATI has commited way more attrocities than NV. E.g soft launches and delays up the wazoo, are way worse than anything NV has done. You might bring up the recall on the recent NV chips, but you can say something similar of ATI for the xbox 360 fiasco. They obviously had a role in the heatsink setup of the graphic chip in the 360, as they designed the GPU for it. They should have not allowed MS to release the GPU with such a flawed cooling system. It is widely known it is the graphic chip of the 360 which causes the biggest red ring of death.

I also think the 1800--> 1900 was a kick in the pants to those who bought it. Their was only a 3 month span between the products and 1800 owners had a much less valuable card after the 1900's release.

Another big deal is the warranty problem in the past. Look at all the partners that have lifetime warranty with NV. People say wow NV was lucky to get those partners, but people fail to realize that much of this comes from NV more relaxed issue on overclocking. ATI didn't allow overclocking at one point.

I honestly think releasing the purposely releasing this shady rumour of 480 shaders was incredibly underhanded. If NV did this people would call them scum. If ATI does it, its called smart business. This site is so sour with NV hate obnoxious.

Before you call me a fanboy, I own a 4870 x2 card and a crossfire motherboard. I would even take a picture to prove it since some of you conspiracy theorist might say I don't own the card and all NV fanboys are liars.

ATI fanboys are even worse than any NV fanboy can be and the proof is in this thread. Charlie writes the worst biased tabloid trash in the hardware world. He insults, lies, insinuates and is arrogant as hell. He is a terrible writer and yet he is still praised by some of the ATI fanboys. Their is not a single writer that has the same level of NV hate and the reason for this is simple. Noone would listen to him, because NV fanboys would not tolerate such written trash and obvious bias. To those that says he is right, you got to be right when you publish so many rumors.

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ok so the 7800gtx had a lead for 6 months, but how long id the x1xxx lead? 3 months with the 1800 (gtx 512 doesn't count because it was vaporware) and another 6 in 2006 with the 1900 series which were faster than the 7950gx2?

additionally x800 series launched at the same time as the 6xxx series and ati beat NV in all areas except for shader model 3 (lower power consumption, single slot, silent, better IQ and MUCH shorter PCBs)

same goes for the 9XXX series

the only failure ati had since he 8500 days (great cards too!!!) was the R600 and nv had the FX series

both delivered great parts but to claim that nv had a more or less constant lead since x800/6800 is a lie

hell even rv670X2 was faster than the 8XXX series :shrug:


additionally the ati driver team got on the same level as the nv drivers are and (at least for me) CF is experiencing almost no micro stuttering after 8.7 cats (earlier ones did stutter more)

PS: who cares if older than 2005 titles aren't working with cf, you can disable it and for these games even a single 3870 is more than enough :shrug:

I love my fellow humans, I really do; even those insane ones (with the emphasis on insane), those who identify themselves with a manufacturer, football team or what ever it may be…they’re all insane, but since they are all insane they don’t know it.

Having said that...

Regarding the article, well, I enjoyed reading it, like a breath of fresh air reading a piece written by a human and not by a computerised politically correct knucklehead. Regarding bashing, perhaps, but then again, NVIDIA is known for unethical tactics, but that is something a ADHD suffering youth is unable to come to terms with. Had ATI been reverting to the very same tactics same thing would apply.

Now, by all means, get back to the number crunching and copy and paste regurgitation…please.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by generics_user

ok so the 7800gtx had a lead for 6 months, but how long id the x1xxx lead? 3 months with the 1800 (gtx 512 doesn't count because it was vaporware) and another 6 in 2006 with the 1900 series which were faster than the 7950gx2?

additionally x800 series launched at the same time as the 6xxx series and ati beat NV in all areas except for shader model 3 (lower power consumption, single slot, silent, better IQ and MUCH shorter PCBs)

same goes for the 9XXX series

the only failure ati had since he 8500 days (great cards too!!!) was the R600 and nv had the FX series

both delivered great parts but to claim that nv had a more or less constant lead since x800/6800 is a lie

hell even rv670X2 was faster than the 8XXX series :shrug:


additionally the ati driver team got on the same level as the nv drivers are and (at least for me) CF is experiencing almost no micro stuttering after 8.7 cats (earlier ones did stutter more)

PS: who cares if older than 2005 titles aren't working with cf, you can disable it and for these games even a single 3870 is more than enough :shrug:

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The x1xxx series was released much later. Considering that six month difference, knowing how much performance your competition offers. having a slight to no lead, is not enough. Trust me, if NV new the performance of the 4870, they would have put more stuff into the gtx260-280 series.

I don't get the point of the RV670x2.
The rv670x2 was faster in some situation(and not all), but really now thats embarrasing for a two chipped card compared to a single. Especially one like a year old. The rv670x2 was slower than the gx2 those, in every possible scenario.

Sure NV might have not of had the lead during some of the x800 to x1xxx series but atleast they produced for the most part hard launches and brought the hardware much later. If launch dates doesn't matter a damn, then why don't we entirely ignore the gtx2xx fiasco, and say only the gtx2xxB should matter. This is nonsense those. Date does matter in comparisons.

Plus people are really forgetting, for what the consumer is getting NV is very competitive with the ATI this generations(they are making squat for margins those). But really does this matter for us.

E.g 9800gtx+ is very competitive with the 4850, even if alot of people on this forum would hate to admit it.

And core 216 gtx260 is very competitive with 4870 1gb. Before your bring up the anandtech review. It was literally the only site that showed such positive light on 1gb of memory on the 4870. Every other website shows a slight edge to the core 216.

Even the 4670 is around a similar level and price to the 9800gt(atleast in canada).

None of this at least for consumers matches the blowout that was the g80 vs r600 blowout.(NV is taking a beating on the margins).

I agree that NV and ATI trade blows when it comes to performance, but never have I have seen such hate for a company since sony. NV hate is out of control.

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Originally Posted by Larsson

I love my fellow humans, I really do; even those insane ones (with the emphasis on insane), those who identify themselves with a manufacturer, football team or what ever it may be…they’re all insane, but since they are all insane they don’t know it.

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Come on, football teams are not as commercialized as other mainstream sports, you can at least identify with your city or country's team, I don't think it's fair to compare it to brand fanaticism. ;)

You mean an unscrupulous company that clearly doesn't care for Vista drivers, releases a videocard with an MSRP of $600+ that doesn't even outperform the $550 sibling by more than 10%, uses developer threats to force companies to remove support for extra features (Tomb Raider AoD, Assassin's Creed), lies (Mobile GPU Packagaing issue), lies (Unreal 2 stuttering issue), lies (680i is SUPPOSED to support Yorkfields! YAY! Oh snap!), full of opportunist scalping (780i for 3 months, then suddenly a 790i; almost GTX 200 scalps), insider info trading...


Happy supporting such a company. What has AMD/ATI done? Several soft launches and a duo of underperforming products. That's it.

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Originally Posted by v_rr

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amd Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08): 6.09B

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NVDA Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08): 2.19B

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=INTC Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08): 77.81B

Market Cap on these days means close to nothing otherwise Nvidia is bigger then General Motors and almost equal to Ford:

Ford Motor Co.
Market Cap (intraday)5: 4.50B
Enterprise Value (10-Oct-08)3: 148.68B
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=F

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lol that is insane a company with a huge debt has a higer value? right...

Here an example:

Code:

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Shares Outstanding:  1,000,000
Current Share Price:  $5
Total Debt:  $1,000,000
Total Cash:  $500,000

Based on the formula above, we can calculate Company XYZ's enterprise value as follows:
($1,000,000 x $5) + $1,000,000 - $500,000 = $5,500,000

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So AMD Cap is 2.XB and Mark Cap is 6B you have 4B in bebt no one on earth is willing to pay 6B for AMD right now.