Apogee GTX

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Originally Posted by Vapor

I actually agree with you (except the whole leaving part)....kind of insulted though, meh :cool:

Fact is this block is extremely likely to be the highest performance block out there and the plating on the aluminum should not be an issue.

If someone doesn't like the look, that's one reason to not buy it, but damn don't slander the whole damn block and company.

And yeah, with the CEO corresponding in public about the decisions that went into it, please show some respect toward him. If nothing else he is an XIP of this forum and is due respect.

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Thing is I like the look. Would love to see this block with something other then Aluminum like Maxxxracer is suggesting so that I may purchase one. I liked the Fuzion over the GT but wished that swiftech had something that appealed to me more. And the GTX is the answer to that except it contains aluminum. So sorry that I feel a little strongly about it. If I was the only one complaing about aluminum then maybe I would rethink my stand. But obviously there is a concern that has been overlooked. All I ask is that concern be considdered in another method then just covering up the problem with plating. You can dress a rock with gold... but its still a rock. (sorry for the lame analogy... I can't think of better atm...)

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Originally Posted by Vapor

I actually agree with you (except the whole leaving part)....kind of insulted though, meh :cool:

Fact is this block is extremely likely to be the highest performance block out there and the plating on the aluminum should not be an issue.

If someone doesn't like the look, that's one reason to not buy it, but damn don't slander the whole damn block and company.

And yeah, with the CEO corresponding in public about the decisions that went into it, please show some respect toward him. If nothing else he is an XIP of this forum and is due respect.

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i think the block looks damn sexy, and i didnt read all the pages but i really want to see some performance comparison charts to other blocks :) since my water cooling system isnt built yet, im still up in the air between this and the fuzion.

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Originally Posted by Bun-Bun

And what if I was a CEO of a company. Would you give me respect even though you don't know who I am and am not clearly stating my reasonings?

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CEO of the company in the discussion? Absolutely. Respect is one thing there's no reason to not give until someone 'wrongs' you. Chances are it will help the discussion anyway.

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Originally Posted by Spawne32

i really want to see some performance comparison charts to other blocks

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I think we all are awaiting performance results from a trusted 3rd party :)

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Originally Posted by Vapor

CEO of the company in the discussion? Absolutely. Respect is one thing there's no reason to not give until someone 'wrongs' you.

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I disagree. respect is something that is earned. Gabe has not earned it with me inrespect to this block.

However that does not mean disrespect is in order either, and I apologize if some of what I said was taken as slander. Not what I intended.

Sheesh, guys the block has not even been out a week yet and everyone wants hard and fast data...*smiles* Why not buy the block and compare it yourself to what you're using now? If we all do that then i am sure some concensus will be achieved.

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Originally Posted by Philly_Boy

Sheesh, guys the block has not even been out a week yet and everyone wants hard and fast data...*smiles*

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You betcha :p: Heck, you know just about everyone here wants performance figures of Barcelona,Penryn and/or R600,R700,G90,G100, etc :D

At least this product is out :confused2

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Originally Posted by PB

Why not buy the block and compare it yourself to what you're using now? If we all do that then i am sure some concensus will be achieved.

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.....tempting me to get back into watercooling? Wish I could :)

You know, if this means it'll be the best new cpu block I'm gonna be pissed. I spent $250 on the swiftech h20 kit to get the Apogee GT. Then 2 weeks ago, everyone was proclaiming the d-tek fusion to be king of the hill. And now people are saying the GTX is best... man that's like $250 on new CPU blocks within a month!

I am actually rather surprised that brass only costs 2.5 times that of aluminum. Having done some small bit of metal work over the past ten years or so it has been my experience that brass is freaking expensive. Of course I, admittedly, wasn't purchasing in production quantities. Nevertheless, it's significantly more costly than aluminum.

It's also important to bear in mind the machining costs of brass over aluminum. Brass is significantly harder than aluminum (and it ruins files rather quickly) so the milling process is going to be more expensive due to component wear, thus increasing the cost of manufacture. I'd guess that that $75.00 block would top 100.00 pretty quickly.

Now some protest has arisen from the GTX's higher price tag when compared to the GT. While delrin might or might not be an expensive polymer I'm confidently certain that, once again, we are looking at an additional cost of milling aluminum, not to mention the etching and plating process. Any all-metal block is going to get expensive pretty quick. Even steel, which should be cheaper than aluminum (and no I'm not suggesting a steel top), depending on the grade, would likely become to expensive due to milling costs.

Another thing to keep in mind is that watercooling, while becoming more popular, is not so ubiquitous that Swiftech is producing enough volume to reduce the per-unit cost down to anything that would be considered reasonable by the man-on-the-street. This is still a very specialized niche market.

As for the concerns over corrosion? Who doesn't pull their loop apart so often that they wouldn't catch it in the unlikely event that it did occur? I'm interested in the block and, while it's not what I'd have designed I think it looks nice enough. I'm going to give it a try. If my loop rots out then I'll send Swiftech a nastygram, kick myself for my foolishness and consider taking my business elsewhere. But I truly don't expect that to be the case.

Oh yea, I think Edelbroick valve covers look like crap and I their carburetors are POS. Guess it's a good thing that I don't really feel that the GTX bears any resemblance or confuse my PC with my car, huh?:D

Now, assuming we can prevent the coolant from freezing, how well do you think this block would perform in outer space? [ducks]

EDITED FOR CONTENT-PB


Ply

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Originally Posted by grudgelord

I am actually rather surprised that brass only costs 2.5 times that of aluminum. Having done some small bit of metal work over the past ten years or so it has been my experience that brass is freaking expensive. Of course I, admittedly, wasn't purchasing in production quantities. Nevertheless, it's significantly more costly than aluminum.

It's also important to bear in mind the machining costs of brass over aluminum. Brass is significantly harder than aluminum (and it ruins files rather quickly) so the milling process is going to be more expensive due to component wear, thus increasing the cost of manufacture. I'd guess that that $75.00 block would top 100.00 pretty quickly.

Now some protest has arisen from the GTX's higher price tag when compared to the GT. While delrin might or might not be an expensive polymer I'm confidently certain that, once again, we are looking at an additional cost of milling aluminum, not to mention the etching and plating process. Any all-metal block is going to get expensive pretty quick. Even steel, which should be cheaper than aluminum (and no I'm not suggesting a steel top), depending on the grade, would likely become to expensive due to milling costs.

Another thing to keep in mind is that watercooling, while becoming more popular, is not so ubiquitous that Swiftech is producing enough volume to reduce the per-unit cost down to anything that would be considered reasonable by the man-on-the-street. This is still a very specialized niche market.

As for the concerns over corrosion? Who doesn't pull their loop apart so often that they wouldn't catch it in the unlikely event that it did occur? I'm interested in the block and, while it's not what I'd have designed I think it looks nice enough. I'm going to give it a try. If my loop rots out then I'll send Swiftech a nastygram, kick myself for my foolishness and consider taking my business elsewhere. But I truly don't expect that to be the case.

Oh yea, I think Edelbroick valve covers look like crap and I their carburetors are POS. Guess it's a good thing that I don't really feel that the GTX bears any resemblance or confuse my PC with my car, huh?:D

Now, assuming we can prevent the coolant from freezing, how well do you think this block would perform in outer space? [ducks]

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:clap:
Wait a moment, Dangerden only charges 6 bucks over the whole block for a brass top! And that's 6 bucks over an acrylic top. And acrylic is much much cheaper than delrin. Brass is much more expensive than aluminum..

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

:clap:
Wait a moment, Dangerden only charges 6 bucks over the whole block for a brass top! And that's 6 bucks over an acrylic top. And acrylic is much much cheaper than delrin. Brass is much more expensive than aluminum..

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Hmm, You raise a good point. I dunno why this is the case. Could have something to do with reduced material cost from a volume supplier or maybe DD decided on a reduced margin on the brass tops (or created a "loss leader"). It is possible that the block's cost was based upon the brass design and DD collects a significantly larger margin on the acrylic model or maybe they sacrifice small creatures at midnight while chanting over the brass.

It wasn't my intention to come off authoritarian on the matter, just a series of educated guesses based upon various experiences. I'll admit, the finer points of production economics are beyond my ken but I'm confident that my analysis is sound even if my hard figures are bovine-poo. I could have easily misjudged the degree of impact that various production forces have.

Hell doing TCO/TCU and lifecycle analysis gives me fits so, like anything anyone else says, take what I say with a grain of salt.

Well from what I saw round the net (and other places), Brass is more than just 2.5X more, its like WAYYYYYY more. Copper's price is almost similar to that of amorphous rare earth metal alloys LOL, while aluminum is 15 times cheaper.

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from MAXX......
Is there any chance Swiftech would be willing to consider switching to brass to ease the minds of the paranoid watercolers?

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I'd really like to know if that would be a possibility? im a noob at WCing and i really love the look and the specs on this block. BUT, since im new to the field of WCing. i myself unfortunatly will have to purchase a Fusion block to be safe.

see i dont want to take the chance on my first new build and add this block to it and find out later i should have listen to the majority of forum posters here about mixed metals. even though i am the type to always do what i want to do. but in this case i would have to listen to the more knowledgable people that have been doing WCing for years.

I will say this though, you make it brass....AND ILL JUMP!:banana: :banana: :D :banana: :banana:

LAS

jab-tech have them for sale, anyone have any results yet?

http://jab-tech.com/Apogee-GTX-Extre...k-pr-3730.html

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Originally Posted by nealh

I am not going to argue regarding the plating mechanism and how well it works/last..I have seen several examples from members were the plating did not last...it look awful the corrison

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I don't believe there are example of failed plating posted here, but perhaps I missed them. There are many examples of corrosion from anodized aluminium - but anyone who has owned a motorcycle will be well aware that anodizing doesn't last very long when exposed to water.

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Originally Posted by Fossil

I don't believe there are example of failed plating posted here, but perhaps I missed them. There are many examples of corrosion from anodized aluminium - but anyone who has owned a motorcycle will be well aware that anodizing doesn't last very long when exposed to water.

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You can't compare the anodized alu from a motorcycle to a waterblock. The water that the motorcycle alu will face is acid and often salty. This, of course helps the water to destroy the anodize.

In a watercooled loop you also have these additives that hopefully will stop corrosion and such.

@Gabe,

People have become so jaded towards aluminum from past low quality plating down by some companies. Technology and the willingness of a company to go the extra cost and steps to ensure that the plating is done correctly is obviously what your company is about. It will take the nay-sayers a good while to finally put down their "I won't buy anything with aluminum in it" signs and look at the actual process involved with todays Military spec plating.

I think that the block looks great and the mounting hardware along with the new barbs are a definite winner. I just ordered an MCW60 for my video card because the mounting of my old Maze4GPU Acetal is a problem affecting the proper mounting of my MCW30.

Someone mentioned that the "grooves" serve no purpose other than bling. Cooling of a system is the added effects of the different resources used in same. Every item adds up to the total cooling package. So depening on the temperature of the air and the cfm blown through the channels heat transfer will take effect. Now there is an idea, a fan made to mount over the blocks mounting bolts to blow air directly on the block and area surrounding it. I do not know if the performance gain would be worth the extra investment but it never hurts to add a little extra cooling to the motherboard that was lost by switching from an air cooled CPU. Just a thought.

Keep up the great work and do not let a few dictate for the many. With a five year warranty you have obviously put your money where your mouth is. :clap: :clap:

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

It will take the nay-sayers a good while to finally put down their "I won't buy anything with aluminum in it" signs and look at the actual process involved with todays Military spec plating.

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Even military spec plating can leave the factory with defects. No QC is perfect.

Description states optional hold down available for 754/939/940. My question is where? Even Swiftech's store doesn't seem to carry it.

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Originally Posted by Bun-Bun

Even military spec plating can leave the factory with defects. No QC is perfect.

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LOL, anyone remember the first Apogee release? It came with copper shavings free of charge :slap: . Yea, QC isnt always perfect...

Well what gets the plating to come off? Friction. Where will there be friction in parts touching the water?
If theres nickel coming off already, I'd just send it back to them, duh.

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well what gets the plating to come off? Friction. Where will there be friction in parts touching the water?
If theres nickel coming off already, I'd just send it back to them, duh.

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It could be a defect not visible to the naked eye.

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Originally Posted by Bun-Bun

It could be a defect not visible to the naked eye.

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Well GTX owners will have to hope that swiftech put careful scrutiny on everything!

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well GTX owners will have to hope that swiftech put careful scrutiny on everything!

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With a five year warranty I would say that they are pretty darn sure. ;)

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

With a five year warranty I would say that they are pretty darn sure. ;)

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Well SOME people don't seem to believe that...