With a divider...I think (not 100%) he is referring to clocking 1:1 at 300....I don't think he meant the board won't run 300+ HTT.
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With a divider...I think (not 100%) he is referring to clocking 1:1 at 300....I don't think he meant the board won't run 300+ HTT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
what if i need 315 mhz to get the maxout of my cpu and memory?
what if i pay 230 euro's for a motherboard thats clocking lower then my MSI K8N neo2 or a DFI NF4
saying the board makes the coldbug history, and I CANT get this board started with a 500W 24PINS native psu!
This is my first own experience with DFI and its the worst!
Maybe MSI doesn't deliver ALL the power dfi can deliver BUT they boot with every psu!
:brick: :brick: :brick:
It's really a pain. I just went to your thread at DFI streets and people are recommending that u use an 8pin. So thats like a $300 upgrade with a new PSU. Even if some of us send back out PCPC to get it modified, it still costs money and shipping those bricks arent cheap. THis might be the only consumer board with an 8pin. So whens BT coming out based on the 4pin Halibut reference board?
helow situman, i feel VERY angry about this situation. dfi saids to buy a psu thats in there recommondation list.
is there no possiblity TO even try to get all psu's working and RELEASE a mobo that has worked the biggest bugs out of it.
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10854
I didn't know about these facts.
Quote:
if the board has a 24-pin power connector, and we state (as we have) that you need a true 24-pin power supply and that a 20-to-24 pin adapter does not work and is not supported, then you need a true native 24-pin power supply.
Quote:
we tell you that you are required to have a 24-pin 480w power supply because that is what is necessary.
Quote:
i'm tired of some of you who think you know more than our engineers continuing to argue that we have no clue what we are talking about and you can skirt the minimum requirements.
i have a psu that has these specs. and i have only 1 thing To say. BETA
Run a divider to clock the cpu high and the memory a little lower, 300 2.5-4-3-8 can be slower than 280 2.5-3-3- so always run tests to make sure what is fast and what isn't, sandra bandwidth is NOT a sure way to prove you have a fast system, unbuffered sandra is closer but ulimately you need to run real life apps and benches to be sure. I ALWAYS use lobby Low and drago low in 3dmark 01 to test ram, latency and overall speed...its a real good indicator to what is fast and what is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jort
Also please remember just because you have issues does not mean Joe Sixpack next door will have the exact same issue.The board is a lot different yes, regarding psu's i know the powerstream runs the board ok and Rgone has used PCP&C as well as another dedicated 600W unit so good high end units seem to run it just fine.
Every board has issues, MSI has the 9nm issue with the ealrly boards, asus had real poor overclocking on the early boards and yes there may be an issue with psu's and this RDX200 but its too early to bash the board as poor and not worth someones time.
run the board 9x300 with the ram in 183 mode, CPU MHZ are more important than ram ultimately but keeping the ram latency low will keep speed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMouse
Remember there is no added latency running a divider on A64, you don't have to run 1:1 to make sure its fastest.
......please answer my question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
hey tony,
when you buy a car for ********, you would like to have it runs smooth don't you?
i can run my mem @ 314 2.5-3-3-7 so this is what i like to do.
i understand this board is just released but that it is so picky about a damn psu?
seems i can't change anything about that :(
The board to me is clearly a beta board after more testing.
The chipset is fast but should of been tested more or the uli chipset should of been used.
My board runs hot but I guess thats the nature of things.
I totally understand that but when a board is promised to do such and such we tend to expect it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
This board has really been a letdown in my opinion.
But then again i am just a customer
Having the reputation dfi has in the overclocking world, how can they release a board this way? We are talking about a board that is supposed to be the very best in the group of the best, to be used by the best overclockers out there, what are they thinking about? people doesn't pay that amount of money to get a mobo out of the box and find all these problems.
The 1575 came available last week....so you are saying DFI should have redesigned the board and gone with that chipset with the board coming in 2 to 3 months?Quote:
Originally Posted by althes
ATI have a new chipset coming in that time period so maybe DFI will opt to use this with the 1575....
One last thing you all need to remember Sb450 is not pin compatible with ULI1575. If you are thinking how can abit and msi etc all come with 1575 so soon its because they started with 1573 then just dropped the new chipset in place.
Heres a more fitting analogy, take a turbo charged car and turn up the boost with a weak fuel system and see what happens (car is to motherboard, as fuel system is to_____?) :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jort
sorry, i couldn't resist your car analogy. i'm sure your fustrated, and i hope my experiences aren't the same :)
The issue is you are comparing to the NF4, that was tuned balls out to run TCCD at super high clocks, this board was not.Quote:
Originally Posted by althes
Its taken me 7 full days to realise this board does have promise, it took me 6 weeks to get halibut running well and many bios files.
There is time yet for this one also, but in the world of the enthusiast you all want it to run awesome from the getgo, and im afraid that is real hard to do.
70 bios files on the NF4 ultra D over 10 months prove this, and yes i have access to every single one of them.
DFI will drop in SB600 early next year, because it's pin-compatible with sb450. That's what I read at anandtech, and makes sense to me.
SB460 is pin compatible with SB600, 460 has the same core as 450 just the 600 package.
Does this mean Dfi can't just put in sb600 where 450 was without any more modifications?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Customers are screwed because if they pay 230€ for a mobo, they pay for a finished product getting a beta one instead, having to experience many bios flashes, and headaches until they get their hardware running as it should. Mobos are starting to be like wine, getting better with ageing.
This board has a couple tricks up its sleeve.....don't be so quick to dismiss it and call it a beta.
always => :bows:
i was really convinced that this mobo was the best of the best atm.
tony i really hope you can get something more out of it.
this mobo is made for hardcore oc'ers so it is powerfull nop doubt.
but a little userfriendly wasn't too mutch to ask i hope :)
edit: please don't talk but show us, i need to be convinced this mobo "can" please our needs ;)
Well true but the issue is new chipsets will be here by then, its moving at a furious pace I hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMouse
At the end of the day we all get caught in the chipset war/game betwen ATI and NV and then sit here debating what is best etc.
The pace is quickening up, so we will be busy talking on forums for many weeks to come.
when did you buy your DFI NF4? how many bios files have you flashed to it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Always
Nothing has changed, you all want more so the engineers try to give it you.
Maybe we all need to run stock and forget about overclcoking???
Ok , so when will the new bios be available so a few of us can test it.
I totally agree with what you are saying but when I see a new motherboard from DFI I come to the party saying must be a great board from a great company every company has a letdown once in a while.
But this one has just been really disheartening.
The board has promise I will say, its something new and nothing new will rock straight away.
If your needs are TCCD, tough luck, it won't--that's not one of its tricks. It's an amazing board with memory below 300MHz, certainly the best CPU clocking and its still got a trick or two up its sleeve--check OPB's thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jort
More BIOSs will be out in due time, just hold on and run it at what you can for now if you're having problems (this is a completely new beast after all, commonly known things on the NF4 simply won't go on this, as Tony has stated MANY times). If you really don't like it, sell it or donate it or something.
Why are you getting at me this way? I'm just posting my feelings about a just released product on the thread meant for it, and you are asking me when I bought my NF-4 mobo? I'm not the only one who feels dissappointed about initial performance of this product. Wouldn't you be screwed If you paid as much as the RDX costs and your initial experiences were totally disappointing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Im not getting at you, i was asking genuine questions to get a genuine point accross to you.
I actually feel Oskar made the NF4 6 months to early, he brought an awesome overclocker to the market and everything else will be judged against this. Now i asked you questions to get you thinking about the beta status the DFI NF4 has been all this time.
If you want to clock the same as the Nf4 stick with the Nf4, it was built for TCCD and it clocks this type of ram better than any board on the present market. Now if you want crossfire, you have high multis on your cpu and you want a solid CPU overclcoker then this may suit you.
Enthusiast boards will always be beta, as we always want more from them.
Jason, have a look at DFI street and look at the forum for the NF4 and see how perfect the board is....enthusiast boards have issue, they all do, and maybe the biggest issue is our expectations are way to high.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMouse
All I gotta say is, all boards have their issues, nothing still beats what dfi puts out, this will still hold true once the new boards are figured out I bet. They truely do cater to us. I can think of many many companies that half ass it claiming to be "an overclockers board". I think alot of ppl have been easily spoiled by the power of dfi's nforce4. Remember when you had to do volt mods? DFI gives you volt options up the ass, everyone and their mom could potentially get a world record now. You all know as well as I do that when a board comes out, it will not be perfect overclocking. it HAS to be perfect stock, that's all.
Tony any tricks to get past 270.
That is far as I can get but I have to use divider for memory.
Use the settings I posted a few pages back, they were for TCCD and i was 100% stable at 290 1:1 with them
I jumped back testing ATI reference to give my head a rest from the RDX, while testing i had a few mins to reflect about A64 overclocking with TCCD etc.
I have a feeling the envelope we are pushing has been pushed all it can go, in that there is little to be gained top end wise with the ram as it stands now. So....Oskar has looked at a new way of tweaking a board and that happens to be with 2 gig kits and with 4 dimms. On reflection, Ryan told me OCZ are selling more 2gig kits than anything else at this present time which holds true to what i reported to him 3 months ago, which was that the market will move to lower latency 2gig kits to help with the new breed of games that are being released.
So, we may have to realise that the market is still actually driven more by gamers than balls out enthusiasts at this time when it comes to how the boards are set up to handle memory. I know boards are a lot better at overclocking memory but this RDX was tuned for high density not high fsb so maybe thats the way we all need to be heading.
Over the next few weeks a new rash of boards are going to be available, what we need to do is see how these boards are tuned and see if they are sacrificing ultra high fsb for higher density overclocking...then we will know for sure.
Side note, Just had another mail off Rgone who loves the board at 280x10, calling it uber slick and much better than his modded NF4.So at least for him it looks my present ramblings are holding true.
I really hope that this is not the way it's gonna go, Tony.
Not that current DFI NF4 board cannot handle 2x1GB or 4x1GB configuration. It does it just fine, despite latter configuration being a total overkill for today's standards and requirements, anyway. But If with announcement of DFI RDX200 they decided to "tweak" it for 2x1GB and not for TCCD, leaving TCCD performance way behind compared to DFI NF4 then something must have went wrong in there during brainstorming. It's just plain wrong.
So far, it looks like DFI NF4 is still the winner for hardcore enthusiasts and gamers. It can handle and OCs all major types of memory. DFI RDX200 seems to lack this versatility so far.
There happens to be more RAM than TCCD for the 2x512 segment that performs VERY well on the RDX. Although having ALL of the flexibility that the NF4 has would be optimal, if I had to choose one type of RAM to ditch it would be the high-speed stuff.
Low latency and high density are my current favorites right now :D
and this board can certainly deliver it seems
Honestly, If I was a hardcore gamer that needs 2x1GB and likes to OC his RAM then I would only buy RDX200 if it proofed that it can do it better than DFI NF4. Unless, one is an ATI fanboy and really needs Crossfire instead of SLi.
So, If DFI RDX200 was tweaked for 2x1GB then I would understand it must be better at handling it and OCing, right? So, my question is - is it or not then?
The funny part for me is I need a board that handles high RAM density well so i can replace more expensive workstation boards with simple x2 chips for testing DB's. So a board that will handle 4 gigs well with no hassle and upmost performance is more important to me than vid by far... I need memory density to be high with reasonable bandwidth or I can't even think of replacing much faster NUMA compliant hardware with it.
This board may do it, the NF4 does not...
Irony in this ----because I may be benefitting from the gaming direction of things :D
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly n Grey
Poor Tony having to field all these harsh questions. Big thank you Tony. My question is how come the maker(s) of the board doesn't come on these boards and field our questions? I know this isn't DFI Street, but come on, there are questions better answered by DFI reps since they work for the company and all. Even though I am pretty sure Tony gave his inputs, he still WORKS FOR OCZ.
I remembered BEFORE DFI made a name (pre-NF4 days), there was a lot of DFI activity going on during the NF4 LP prelaunchings. It would be great if there's the same kind of support this time around and also in the future. If there isn't enough reps, HIRE more people. That's what GROWING companies do, hire more people to better service the customers.
Without being an a$$ I don't think "Growing" companies can really grow based on the relatively small enthusiast market......... It’s a great place for testing and feedback but it doesn’t pay the rent, imho………
Well if they want testing and feedback, shouldnt they BE THE ONES to collect the results? Its like Toyota asking Michelin or Bridgestone or whoever they OEM supplier is to collect surverys on their cars.
DFI has been around forever though, its not like some upstart, they have been trying to expand thier market, and theyve been doing a damn good job imo.
you guys keep moaning about TCCD on this board, but from what it sounds like, even though it doesnt do 300+ well it does 280 with much better timings, as tony said in the end its still faster, clocks arent everything as we know in the BH-5 Vs. TCCD battle, stop moaning about this boards lack of tccd support, from what it sounds like its still faster then nf4lp even with TCCD.
My bet is that with everything the same except the mobos, once tweaked out properly, the RDX would win in most situations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
i dont think DFI asked us for our opinions from anyone except bigtoe actually, and they were kind enough to let bigtoe share what is going on with us. What other mobo manufacturer lets us have even this much? stop complaining about what DFI isnt doing and start looking at how much more they do for us then anyone else.
If you really want DFI comments, go to the DFI street website, dfi is not asking bigtoe to tell us what we think, ad they arent making him collect information for us. DFI already has thier own methods of gaining thier information via their own essage boards and channels and such, bigtoe is merely doing us a favor and sharing what he knows with us, working to get us better product.
i feel very strongly about this, i have heard enough about what DFI hasn't done, they are leaps and bounds above other mobo vendors imo.
DFI NF4 was not without 'issues' in the beginning. Nothing to worry about imho
The NF4 was eating memory sticks and killing cpu's , remember ?
Just give the guys some time to come up with a better (user friendly) bios. (more compatible with diff mem ,etc)
This board has huge potential it just need to be 'tamed'.
I like the fact that it wil take time and tinkering to setup right. Would be quite boring if all would work on the first attempt , no? That's what so fun about overclocking ! Pushing things and MAKING it work !
Can't wait till my board is here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco
i think its funny that people call this a beta board, it works fine at stock speeds last i checked, and its much more stable then dfi's last mobo release....
I am in no way implying this is a beta board.
Tony,
I went through entire thread. There's one question being asked few times and nobody seemed to get a straight answer for it. So, I will ask again...
We know that DDR600+ is sort of out of question on this board... But - and that is that particular question - how high does HTT go? Will people with Venice 3000+ or Opteron 144 (multi x9) be able to run their CPUs north of 2.8Ghz-2.9Ghz or higher on this mobo? For that they will need at least 311-322HTT? How about 330HTT for 3GHz? Does this board go this high or not?
bachus,
from what I understand ,300+ HTT speeds is no problem
only 1:1 300HTT seems not possible (yet)
i actually asked RG the same thing over at DFI-street and it looks very good i must say :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
....hope he won't mind me quotingQuote:
Originally Posted by RGone
That's what I wanted to be cleared up. Thanks dinos22 :)
So RGone gets 340HTT (is that max?) while over at Anand they get just over 300HTT. Is this due more to the people and their skills or the range of performance from board to board? 340 is great but with some stellar Opteron 144s you might want a little more.
AT ran games and benches looking at their review, Rgone and myself run prime for 8 hrs minimum as well as games and benches etc. We have seen 4 hrs 100% prime stable but then crash, this is perfectly stable for all game benches to run.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundamit
All things included you will stand more chance if you have awesome cpu's and good memory, I try and test with crappy el cheapo CPU's so you guys actually all do better than me.
And 340 is not the max async, i have seen 370+ on the board I have here.
Can anyone test with some Crucial Ballistix? Also Tony, the board works perfectly fine with a 4pin instead of the 8pin?
Thanks.
it works with a 4 pinQuote:
Originally Posted by situman
Yeah I am interested how the board works with 2x1gb crucial ballistix.
Can anyone give that a run once they have some time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashOv3r1De
yes im definitely interested in seeing some results with 2x1gb crucial ballistix .. i need a new motherboard and its either this one of the expert one if it ever comes out
I'm interested in the results with 2 x 1GB Ballistix as well. My RDX200 should be here in a couple days, but i am gonna be building it with all new cpu (opteron 146) and totally different platform (vs. signel channel nf3 board), so i dunno what to expect when comparing my past results to what i might get with the RDX200.
Edit: added CPU type ;)
What CPU?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco
Whoops, sorry, could see how you would think that, no i just posted your post as an example of how people should look at this board, i wholeheartedly agree with your post.
:toast:
Hey guys, here's another unfortunate first experience.
I'm not a regular poster here so i don't have a current signature updated, but i'll list what i've tried in this RDX.
I spent all weekend being tortued with this problem, while keepin an eye on here and dfi-street. Been wanting to jump in here but it took 2 days to get my account activated so I could post.
PSU: OCZ Modstream 520
CPU: 4400+, 3700+ SD, 3500+ Venice, 3200+ winchester
Mem: UTT BH5 (got pounds of it here, i've tried most. some known good up to 270mhz) G-skill 2x1gb (F1-3200USU2, Stable in NF4 DFI up to 23x but haven't tested too much TCCD), G-Skill 2x512 (some of the cheap ZX stuff, nothing special but its TCCD)
Perifs: I've tried it all. sata, pata, multiple video cards, and minimal boot only, you know the drill.
So here's my problem. Im lucky if it posts at all after saving a bios setting.
The only way It will boot is to save the setting, wait 5 seconds, manually power off the machine, and then power it on. The settings do save, but the performance is absolutly terrible. There seems to be a wall about 225mhz HTT. That sounds like its not properly locking the pci, but i know that to be untrue via cpu-z.
The only component I haven't switched is the PSU, which i suspect to be the problem. I didn't have another one available with me to test this unfortunatly. This ModStream is a 4 pinner, not 8. Although i was under the impression this isn't a necessity, I'd like to know your guys' thoughts on this.
I'm quite methodical in my setups, so i really don't think its something i'm doing, but you never know.
I'll update as i try a new PSU which i'll have to go buy as all the ones i've got access to are 4 pins. Rather unfortunate that i'm brought to that just to get this board working. But i'll save the disapointment in lieu of constructive problem solving at this point.
-butter
AFAIK, Oskar had offered ATI different options for configurations for this board. ATI chose the ability to run 4x512MB 1t and strong LL/BH clocks (at least better than the Nf4 boards) as their emphasis. So this board is basically the result of their choices - a board which has ultimately a lower limit to it's FSB, poorer TCCD clocking capability, but excels with BH/UTT memory and has the ability to run 4x512mb 1t.Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
FWIW, this is the first ATI Crossfire chipset mobo to hit the market. Only the naive would assume it to not have any bugs/issues. As mentioned earlier, the first nf4 chipset mobo's had issues and that's why there have been so many bios updates for all of the boards(including non-dfi).
As an earlier adopter, you need to expect these things to happen. I'm surprised to hear so much complaining. And in regards to 4-pin/8-pin psu connectors, my Seasonic S12 500 has both. Coming from an Intel 955x mobo that required a 8-pin connector, I'm surprised to see other high-end psu companies don't provide both connections.
Why both???? An 8-pin should just be converted down to 4 or strategically plugged in so that 4 are dangling (I have an 8-pin Fortron that I used on a 4-pin board for ~2 years sans adapter). Why new PSUs don't have 8-pin is a good question, though.
In light of it all, there's tremendous performance and promise shining through the complaining (just so long as you don't want to use TCCD). And besides, it WILL get better :D