Bulldoze that Sandy Bridge

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Originally Posted by richierich

informal just posted linkto fud saying that BD should come close to Core i7 parts, but at lower cost. I wonder which Core i7 though, Gulftown or Westmere. Hopefully Westmere. Anyways, since Microcenter just e-mailed me saying that my order for the 2500K is on backorder I'm going to cancel it. I must resist going to the darkside.


Cmon AMD, pull through!

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Six cores, so Westmere. That's not enough, though. SB is already faster per core, and s2011 will pull even further ahead.

Why did Dirk leave? :(

Apparently the board didn't agree with the direction Dirk wanted the company to move in.

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Originally Posted by El Gappo

Why did Dirk leave? :(

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board chairman Bruce Claflin said that Meyer wasn’t the right person to lead AMD through its next phase of “significant growth… market leadership and… superior financial returns.”

Meyer is getting $8.6 million in severance pay including shares in AMD.

superior financial returns.:rofl::ROTF::rofl::ROTF:
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AMD Seeks New CEO Who Can Challenge Intel, Tackle Tablet-Computer Market
In addition to stepping down as CEO, Meyer resigned from the board. The move capped a 15-year career at AMD, following stints at Intel and Digital Equipment Corp. His departure wasn’t the result of any specific financial or legal matter, said Drew Prairie, an AMD spokesman.

"My blood will always be green," Meyer said yesterday in an e-mailed statement, referring to the color of AMD's logo. "I wish the company well as AMD focuses successfully on the road ahead."

IMO, AMD is run by a bunch of clowns! :yepp:

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Originally Posted by Apokalipse

Apparently the board didn't agree with the direction Dirk wanted the company to move in.

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Guess who's on the board?

Hector Ruiz. So for all the people who wanted him back, he is back. Like herpes (he never left).

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Originally Posted by 445533

Guess who's on the board?

Hector Ruiz. So for all the people who wanted him back, he is back. Like herpes (he never left).

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I thought Hector got kicked off the board after he was linked to the Galleon Group LLC insider-trading case?

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Originally Posted by ReKcOlNu

board chairman Bruce Claflin said that Meyer wasn’t the right person to lead AMD through its next phase of “significant growth… market leadership and… superior financial returns.”

Meyer is getting $8.6 million in severance pay including shares in AMD.

superior financial returns.:rofl::ROTF::rofl::ROTF:
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AMD Seeks New CEO Who Can Challenge Intel, Tackle Tablet-Computer Market
In addition to stepping down as CEO, Meyer resigned from the board. The move capped a 15-year career at AMD, following stints at Intel and Digital Equipment Corp. His departure wasn’t the result of any specific financial or legal matter, said Drew Prairie, an AMD spokesman.

"My blood will always be green," Meyer said yesterday in an e-mailed statement, referring to the color of AMD's logo. "I wish the company well as AMD focuses successfully on the road ahead."

IMO, AMD is run by a bunch of clowns! :yepp:

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Dirk not just resigned from the CEO post but also quit the board. Seems like this is a very big upset for him and not as simple as just he is having different view with the board. Some power play may involved.
It is hard to imagine that the x86 world lost the viable alternative to Intel.

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Originally Posted by ReKcOlNu

I thought Hector got kicked off the board after he was linked to the Galleon Group LLC insider-trading case?

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Well he was never formally charged so I don't know what happened. I don't see his name on the board of directors page: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....ol-govcommcomp


Looks like you're right, he's gone from AMD.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Investing in a platform that used to be .8% of the market then fell to .4% of the market (an nobody knows how low it is today) is not a winning nor profitable strategy.

Also, when you consider the enthusiast piece of the market is only in the single digits (IIRC) and that only a small fraction of those enthusiasts actually buy the $1000 desktop chips, it is pretty clear that having the top performing processor is not how you make a lot of money.

If you think there is a halo effect from the top part, consider that enthusiasts who understand processors would never buy an AMD processor for $300 or $500 that performed worse than the corresponding $300 or $500 intel processor - they would buy the best performance for their budget. That top score only makes them feel good AFTER they buy, if it is the same brand.

And, before anyone jumps on me, I am in the server busines, so this is me looking in at the enthusiast business, I have no impact on what they do.

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JF, it's fascinating reading your posts. However I do have something to disagree with on this one.

I think there is a halo effect. I think Intel having the clear performance crown leads to people buying low/mid range Intel CPUs over AMD, because of a feeling they are better. It's never clear for casual shoppers which is the best performing combination of board/cpu/memory at any specific price point. Additionally they're not really fixed to a specific price point. There's movement in either direction as money goes to the graphics card or other parts. People just want an intel because the i7 is the business. I noticed a significant swing to AMD away from Intel when Intel were struggling to match AMD, and now that it's gone full circle and AMD are playing catchup I've noticed the same phenomenon in the other direction.

A good example of this is graphics cards. NVidia and ATI have always competed for the crown. ATI become more interesting at £80 a card if they have the best performing card at £400. Same for Nvidia.

However, I think it's only fair to put all of that in it's proper place. The high end enthusiast self build market is just simply a tiny part of the market and I can't see it driving AMD behaviour.

The only financially viable way is for you to produce chips for the server market, and chips for the big OEMs and then as an afterthought work out how to get a premium from us lot. I think we'd be kidding ourselves on if we thought we had any real influence on AMD at the big spending points.

So overall yes I do agree with you, but I do feel that the halo effect is present. After all, if it wasn't present then why would AMD be the best choice in the value conscious enthusiast market, if there wasn't the Intel halo effect to navigate around.

As far as what's good for enthusiasts.... Intel and AMD alternating the performance crown once a year. When Intel launch a new core AMD price and cut their new core to beat it, and Intel respond. When there is a slight advantage to one side we don't see it, they just make a little more profit, and the other side has to cut a little into their margins. But what we have now is a position where Intel have the undisputed performance crown and AMD even with the new CPUs look unlikely to decidedly take it from them. That's not good for enthusiast consumers.

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Originally Posted by Halk

Intel and AMD alternating the performance crown once a year.

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That hasn't happened in awhile and AMD has been second place ever since Core 2 Duo came out and wiped the floor.

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Originally Posted by 445533

That hasn't happened in awhile and AMD has been second place ever since Core 2 Duo came out and wiped the floor.

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That's my recollection too. A64s were where AMD started to beat Intel for quite some time, and at C2D it shifted in Intel's favour.

I'm not in any way qualified to draw a conclusion... but while Intel were playing catchup, and AMD were trying to stay ahead... did we not see the evolution from single to quad core, 64 bit processing go mainstream and clock speeds go up until they hit the wall? Did that pressure cause more advances than normal?

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Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown

I know of one specific man they could go see ... or at least have a phone call with :rofl:

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There are so few of them in the world we could just call each one individually.

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Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown

I know of one specific man they could go see ... or at least have a phone call with :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Halk

JF, it's fascinating reading your posts. However I do have something to disagree with on this one.

I think there is a halo effect. I think Intel having the clear performance crown leads to people buying low/mid range Intel CPUs over AMD, because of a feeling they are better. It's never clear for casual shoppers which is the best performing combination of board/cpu/memory at any specific price point. Additionally they're not really fixed to a specific price point. There's movement in either direction as money goes to the graphics card or other parts. People just want an intel because the i7 is the business. I noticed a significant swing to AMD away from Intel when Intel were struggling to match AMD, and now that it's gone full circle and AMD are playing catchup I've noticed the same phenomenon in the other direction.

A good example of this is graphics cards. NVidia and ATI have always competed for the crown. ATI become more interesting at £80 a card if they have the best performing card at £400. Same for Nvidia.

However, I think it's only fair to put all of that in it's proper place. The high end enthusiast self build market is just simply a tiny part of the market and I can't see it driving AMD behaviour.

The only financially viable way is for you to produce chips for the server market, and chips for the big OEMs and then as an afterthought work out how to get a premium from us lot. I think we'd be kidding ourselves on if we thought we had any real influence on AMD at the big spending points.

So overall yes I do agree with you, but I do feel that the halo effect is present. After all, if it wasn't present then why would AMD be the best choice in the value conscious enthusiast market, if there wasn't the Intel halo effect to navigate around.

As far as what's good for enthusiasts.... Intel and AMD alternating the performance crown once a year. When Intel launch a new core AMD price and cut their new core to beat it, and Intel respond. When there is a slight advantage to one side we don't see it, they just make a little more profit, and the other side has to cut a little into their margins. But what we have now is a position where Intel have the undisputed performance crown and AMD even with the new CPUs look unlikely to decidedly take it from them. That's not good for enthusiast consumers.

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There are 2 major groups, the processor aware and the processor unaware.

For the processor aware, they know the different processors, they know performance, and they will buy the best performer that fits in their budget. They represent about 20% (at most) of the market. "Halo" products don't work because these people are smart enough to know the processors and will choose the best one for their system, they will not be fooled into buying a slower product because there is some other benchmark on a part they are not buying.

For the other 80%+ of the market, they are "processor unaware", so they don't know about the halo part. They buy based on price and the features that they get.

I just can't find the place where people are smart enough to know about this halo part, but dumb enough to pay more for a slower part because of that halo part.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

For the other 80%+ of the market, they are "processor unaware", so they don't know about the halo part. They buy based on price and the features that they get.

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So where does marketing fit in? If people are so oblivious, how does marketing work and why does a large company like Intel even need to advertise and promote their products?

And that is what i never do..i never buy a system before i know how fast my application will run on it!
I'am curious when i can see test results from a Bulldozer system with the application i want to use every day.
The Sandy Bridge was not out yet and i know everything i want to see..the day that NDA is lifted (even a little to early) you see everywhere reviews,testings,overclockings
like they are already weeks busy with it.
That makes the big difference between Intel and AMD..how long are the Magny cours on the market..i'am still waiting to see a first test result!
When i know that the Bulldozer can reach the 980x or even do better and the price is right..i will build a Bulldozer system.
If it's more worse or i can't see a testing result then i buy a 980x that i can put in my system or build a second system with Sandy Bridge :)

Hmm..where i belong now..the processor aware group or the processor unaware group if i don't get my results that i want to see ;)

JP.

Ive read this info before
Price is interesting

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Originally Posted by 445533

So where does marketing fit in? If people are so oblivious, how does marketing work and why does a large company like Intel even need to advertise and promote their products?

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Please don't confuse marketing with advertising, they are 2 different disciplines. Advertising is usually handled by sales functions within most companies or by regional functions.

Marketing is about determining the features, planning the roadmap, positioning the product, developing the brand proposition and engaging the sales/regional go to market organizations.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Please don't confuse marketing with advertising, they are 2 different disciplines. Advertising is usually handled by sales functions within most companies or by regional functions.

Marketing is about determining the features, planning the roadmap, positioning the product, developing the brand proposition and engaging the sales/regional go to market organizations.

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Hence the word "market" and not "advert" :)

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Please don't confuse marketing with advertising, they are 2 different disciplines. Advertising is usually handled by sales functions within most companies or by regional functions.

Marketing is about determining the features, planning the roadmap, positioning the product, developing the brand proposition and engaging the sales/regional go to market organizations.

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Right, my mistake. Advertising is a subset of marketing.

So why advertise if things are so clear cut? You have the oblivious herd and the tech savvy consumers plugged into the net with the latest benchmark data on your product.

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Originally Posted by JPQY

And that is what i never do..i never buy a system before i know how fast my application will run on it!
I'am curious when i can see test results from a Bulldozer system with the application i want to use every day.
The Sandy Bridge was not out yet and i know everything i want to see..the day that NDA is lifted (even a little to early) you see everywhere reviews,testings,overclockings
like they are already weeks busy with it.
That makes the big difference between Intel and AMD..how long are the Magny cours on the market..i'am still waiting to see a first test result!
When i know that the Bulldozer can reach the 980x or even do better and the price is right..i will build a Bulldozer system.
If it's more worse or i can't see a testing result then i buy a 980x that i can put in my system or build a second system with Sandy Bridge :)

Hmm..where i belong now..the processor aware group or the processor unaware group if i don't get my results that i want to see ;)

JP.

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What you say is a function of execution prowess and expected performance. Intel knew SB will stomp everything across the board. The problem was that even if you didn't like SB for whatever reason, the second alternative was, guess what, I3/5/7s on the market. So Intel couldn't fail. When you know you'll be much better than the competition, you can relax the NDAs and so on.

What about BD. Fuad tells us it will close to current I7s, a turkish website than says 50% better than current I7 950s as per AMD presentations. Why isn't it compared to 980x ? Or a 2600k ? Had AMD said 50% better than a SB 2600k would have been awesome.

But 50% better than a 950 puts it near Gulftown of comparable clock in the select apps AMD tested it. Improvement compared to K10.5 ? Definately.
Enough to exceed Gulftown and threaten SB ? Don't think so.

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Originally Posted by 445533

Right, my mistake. Advertising is a subset of marketing.

So why advertise if things are so clear cut? You have the oblivious herd and the tech savvy consumers plugged into the net with the latest benchmark data on your product.

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that is a question for intel

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

that is a question for intel

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well played

Hi,

Some info of the size die of Bulldozer???

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Originally Posted by 445533

So where does marketing fit in? If people are so oblivious, how does marketing work and why does a large company like Intel even need to advertise and promote their products?

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Likely, those people buy the best HP/Dell/Apple/etc system they feel like they can justify. Just in my opinion, though. It's what I used to do before finding out what [H] and XS were.

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Originally Posted by cesariuth

Hi,

Some info of the size die of Bulldozer???

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"8 cores bulldozer in less die space than 6 cores istanbul/thuban" I think was quoted before.

8 server cores in less die space than current lisbon.