ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

I doubt that they will be THAT fast. Otherwise they wouldn't need duals to be fast. :p:

Well, whichever is faster, I don't case as long as the TDP stays below 95W, and price below $150.

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I'm really puzzled at what Fuad + Chiphell is saying.

He says the XT has a 512-bit bus while the PRO is 256-bit and GDDR3 (but the latter is more or less inconsequential, more impact on cost only)

Yes, yes, you could cut down busses at all, but the point is a 512-bit chip would NOT be small enough to be X2-ed. A 512-bit chip would ALSO likely need extra ram modules, considering I don't think GDDR5 has 64-bit modules on the cheap, or such 64-bit modules exist at all.

On the Chiphell side, nothing has been announced, except for the coolers. The RV770XT cooler seems to cater for a backplate on the other side of the PCB (all the cards who had that hairdryer cooler did), and cools a chip with a TDP of 150+W.

The RV770PRO cooler cools like the RV670PRO/3850 cooler, about the same TDP.


I don't think you can even increase TDP that much by ramping clocks! (On the ATI side, nVidia did it but it reeked of desperation) 55nm is mature, but yields for such a chip won't be good.


Coupled with the 480SP/800SP doubling rumor, there could actually be 2 chips, and none of them are clocked to hell-ish clocks.


Just my 2.5 cents. :p:

GDDR5 alone brings in sufficient(or near sufficient) bandwidth if the clockspeeds are high enough. 512bit bus would alone bump the memory bandwidth by 100%. I don't know if it really helps the preformance, but at least it will cost more than 256bit bus, and so would GDDR5 cost more than GDDR3, so expect single RV770XT to be quite expensive to manufacture when compared to the PRO chip.

^

Yeah, and GDDR5 supplies aren't too good right now. CHH says 10:1 ratio of XT:PRO. D:

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

I doubt that they will be THAT fast. Otherwise they wouldn't need duals to be fast. :p:

Well, whichever is faster, I don't case as long as the TDP stays below 95W, and price below $150.

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4870 is going to be 30 to 50% faster over 3870 with same TDP and 200-250$ price range.

This is fast. :D

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

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Yeah, and GDDR5 supplies aren't too good right now. CHH says 10:1 ratio of XT:PRO. D:

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says gddr5 supply is ok

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d..._Imminent.html

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Originally Posted by madcho

4870 is going to be 30 to 50% faster over 3870 with same TDP and 200-250$ price range.

This is fast. :D

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Yeah, not a bad deal at all. ;) But people seem to consider at least 50% speed bump "fast", otherwise it is a "flop" :p:

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

Yeah, not a bad deal at all. ;) But people seem to consider at least 50% speed bump "fast", otherwise it is a "flop" :p:

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I usually take a 80-100% speed bump for granted, but now when AMD is only going for the mainstream market I think that is too much too ask... :(
However, they release gfx cards more often to compensate, so it's not too bad.

512bit +GDDR5 is insane and useless. I doubt thats real. It doesnt make any sense.

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Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR

512bit +GDDR5 is insane and useless. I doubt thats real. It doesnt make any sense.

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If you think of 4870 as 2 RV770 cores on one die that share 1GB mem on 512bit bus then it makes sense.

Only reason I can see ati going with 512 bit for the rv770 is because gddr5 supply is too low and they are planning on also releasing a gddr3 version of the 4870

Confirmation about these question wasn't appeared . Some guys in other forums thinking that RV770XT should be a MCM solution with fast interconnect and shared memory and therefore wider bus in combination with faster memory should be benefit .

not going to happen, the old plan was for the r7xx to have up to 4 of the same gpus on a single pcb (the more $$, the more gpus you got), but I guess ati figured out that a single strong gpu is better due to the not 100% scaling of sli and xfire, so that was scrapped


Once again, only chance the rv770 has of getting the r600's ringbus is if the gddr5 supplies are too low and they need to launch a gddr3/4 product to steal gt200's thunder/market share before gt200 launches

I found this:

http://xpentor.com/mamboserver/index...=1016&Itemid=1

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Originally Posted by drjunk

I found this:

http://xpentor.com/mamboserver/index...=1016&Itemid=1

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Old and (most likely) fake.
Good find tho :p:

Lol. I just want these to handle Crysis with ease, the game that is being used as benchmarks for next-generation handwares. So far, we have yet to see a single card doing MAXED settings at a ridiculously FPS.

I saw in HardOCP another speculative comparison chart, type "RV770 vs 9800GX2" and it was showing slight performance margin for RV770 .

If the MSRP is $250 better they can outperform at least the 9800GTX.

BTW, May 13th and still no real info or benchs. I smell something bad here.

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Originally Posted by drjunk

I found this:

http://xpentor.com/mamboserver/index...=1016&Itemid=1

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Fake. With those scores CPU score has to be 5071. No CPU reaches that with 3GHz clocks. Needs some 3.3-3.4 GHz for an QX9650 to reach 5k.

9800GX2 score needs CPU score of 4397 to be valid. That is probably the CPU score they got with the run, so I am quite sure the GX2 score is valid, but the RV770 score is fake, obviously. But what if they have ran the test with RV770!? With same CPUs core? Then the SM2 should've been 8280 +/-1 and SM3 should've been 12250 +/-1. :)

Thus I claim that those benches are purely fake, as stated many times before.

ugh I'm sick of seeing those same fake results for like the 5th time, don't you guys actually read the threads?

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GT200 is something that Nvidia is preparing to show under NDA to many journalists in late May at its headquarters and we wouldn’t be surprised if we see it at Computex 08 as it should be ready to launch around that time.

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this sounds believable.

2-4 weeks time some actual real numbers?:shock:
smoke me a kipper if anything more leaks b4 then:shock:

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

If the MSRP is $250 better they can outperform at least the 9800GTX.

BTW, May 13th and still no real info or benchs. I smell something bad here.

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Why so negative?
Surely it's also possible that Ati wants to keep info and performance estimations a secret for as long as possible, with nvidia still tweaking their next release.

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Originally Posted by Jakko

Why so negative?
Surely it's also possible that Ati wants to keep info and performance estimations a secret for as long as possible, with nvidia still tweaking their next release.

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I prefer being negative. Then, if RV770 is a kick ass product, I'm going to be happier. I don't know what to expect after R600, you know. If launch is in early June, there should be samples and preliminary benchmarks floating around.

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Then, if RV770 is a kick ass product, I'm going to be happier.

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plan for the worst hope for the best...

Exactly Mr. Mugatu :lol:

I love that movie :p:

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Originally Posted by madcho

4870 is going to be 30 to 50% faster over 3870 with same TDP and 200-250$ price range.

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last rumors i saw >> about 329$-349$

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the 1GB GDDR5 powered 4870 will retail between $329-349.


http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37093/135/

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regard

The core speed of RV770 Pro now can be reached 990MHz :

http://r800.blogspot.com/2008/05/cor...ow-can-be.html

http://www.google.com/translate?u=ht...sl=zh-CN&tl=en

:up:

OT: Why do they always say "we learned that..."? Am I the only one who thinks that it sounds very stupid?

seems like the release is taking forever

OK, according to Intel fanboy logic, this OCs quite nicely, so buy it and kiss ATI's ass :rofl:


I dunno, seems the TDP can actually get to 150W without a different chip. That somehow scares me a little.

Keep the gossip bandwagon going!
Fud is claiming that "AMD plans to show off its RV770XT and PRO cards at Computex, but it won't launch it until late June" Apparently AMD plans to launch the XT/Pro cards in the last week of June and also that real availability will be in Q3 (July), 3 weeks after Computex.

Hopefully the launch will be infact June because it seems to me as if its slowly getting later and later. Then again that could be down to us speculating about the launch. Has AMD actually officially ever said that ANY R700 cards where due to come out in may/june...or was we speculating and then started to believe our own hype, which is easily done :)

Link

Another bit of gossip is that " RV770PRO with GDDR3 has been sampled a few weeks ago and AMD is about to sample RV770XT cards with GDDR5 memory.
As we said before RV770XT will end up as the faster from two and it has the 512bit memory support. Naturally, RV770XT is bigger and hotter than its predecessor, the RV670XT, but at the same time, it will end up significantly faster.
It will have a bigger cooler and of course it supports DirectX 10.1 and its developed in 55nm. Remember this is a mainstream/performance product and it won’t be that expensive."

RV770 GDDR5 to sample soon

And finaly
"It looks like the GT200 or D10U card will sell for US$499 and it will be the perfect replacement for the Geforce 9800GTX. We are not sure about the name. Many people have suggested Geforce 9900GTX and GT brands, but we are not sure if these will really be the final names.
The cards based on the GT200 will sell for $499 and the cards are sampled and work well. Nvidia plans to show the cards to journalists in the last week of May and it’s highly likely to see the launch in June, with retail availability.
It will be fun to see if the GT200 will end up faster than the GX2 and if this single big chip can actually beat a dual chip card. We have a feeling it should."

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Originally Posted by azza21

Hopefully the launch will be infact June because it seems to me as if its slowly getting later and later. Then again that could be down to us speculating about the launch. Has AMD actually officially ever said that ANY R700 cards where due to come out in may/june...or was we speculating and then we started to believe our own hype, which is easily done :)

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I can't find any reference to any information regarding the RV770 from AMD... hell even the "RV770" hasn't been confirmed officially!

Latest rumor has it that the RV770 is a mainstream/performance product

Source

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In a week


RV770PRO with GDDR3 has been sampled a few weeks ago and AMD is about to sample RV770XT cards with GDDR5 memory.

As we said before, RV770XT will end up as the faster from two and it has the 512-bit memory support. Naturally, RV770XT is bigger and hotter than its predecessor, the RV670XT, but at the same time it will end up significantly faster.

It will have a bigger cooler and, of course, it supports DirectX 10.1 and it's developed in 55nm. Remember this is a mainstream/performance product and it won’t be that expensive.

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Err, news? Of course it is mainstream, because the R700(2x RV770) will be enthusiast product.

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

Err, news? Of course it is mainstream, because the R700(2x RV770) will be enthusiast product.

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Ah, not everyone sees it in that light. Also, this is still all rumor, nothing has been officially confirmed as of yet. :rolleyes:

Besides that, what has been rumored so far is the RV770Pro, RV770XT and finally the X2. If any of this is true its still a guessing game what category each will be in. Thus the reason for me posting that rumored news.

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Remember this is a mainstream/performance product and it won’t be that expensive.

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ATI :up:

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Ah, not everyone sees it in that light. Also, this is still all rumor, nothing has been officially confirmed as of yet. :rolleyes:

Besides that, what has been rumored so far is the RV770Pro, RV770XT and finally the X2. If any of this is true its still a guessing game what category each will be in. Thus the reason for me posting that rumored news.

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RV670 (HD3850/3870) mainstream >> RV770 (HD4850/4870)

R680 (HD3870X2) enthusiast >> R700 /R780 ?? (HD4870X2 ?)


regards

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or was we speculating and then started to believe our own hype

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:rofl:
770pro with 256 bit bus and gddr3
770xt with gddr5 and 512bit bus
this sounds real to me, as there will be significant enuf difference to push sale of the higher priced xt version.

it is my guess that all new cards will release in the next financial year. July 1+, Q3 although rumours say may/june for 770pro - which im curious to know whether it will outperform the 8800gt, which it should.

depends whether amd's sales are still any good for their existing cards; i would have thought amd would have wanted to get competitive cards out the door ASAP...

Some chinese sites(PCInlife/Chiphell) now claimed that RV770 will have 800 SP .

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Originally Posted by mascaras

RV670 (HD3850/3870) mainstream >> RV770 (HD4850/4870)

R680 (HD3870X2) enthusiast >> R700 /R780 ?? (HD4870X2 ?)


regards

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As stated still a guess game until the product is officially released!

Another interesting angle is if this card comes with 480SP or 800SP on top of the fact if it's true there is RV770Pro, RV770XT and X2. Interesting post from W1z that puts this into prospective of why I say what I say. But again, we won't know for sure until it's released

Source

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the problem with 480 or 800 shaders comes from the architecture:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...Capture210.jpg

see the yellow thingies inside the red shader blocks? the big question is how many of these are in the rv770 per red block.

if it's 5 then 800 is correct (160 * 5 = 800)
if it's 3 then 480 is correct (160 * 3 = 480)

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IMO, if it's true that there is a 800SP card using 32 TMUs found in the RV770Pro (for example) it should not be called a mainstream card :p:. The point isn't if it's true or not, what is the point is there are way to many contradicting leaks presented. Therefore, it's better to wait and see what's released.

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

The point isn't if it's true or not, what is the point is there are way to many contradicting leaks presented. Therefore, it's better to wait and see what's released.

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yep , like always :p:

soon we should know the exact specs and few benchs :)

regards

Well calling it mainstream is mainly pricing. Of course, if it has 800SP, then this card can quite possibly be a beast and if true, then I can see why Nvidia has shown concern.

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Originally Posted by adamsleath

:rofl:
770pro with 256 bit bus and gddr3
770xt with gddr5 and 512bit bus
this sounds real to me, as there will be significant enuf difference to push sale of the higher priced xt version.

it is my guess that all new cards will release in the next financial year. July 1+, Q3 although rumours say may/june for 770pro - which im curious to know whether it will outperform the 8800gt, which it should.

depends whether amd's sales are still any good for their existing cards; i would have thought amd would have wanted to get competitive cards out the door ASAP...

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GDDR5 and 512bit makes no sense...

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

Some chinese sites(PCInlife/Chiphell) now claimed that RV770 will have 800 SP .

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Actually there have always been those rumors...

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

As stated still a guess game until the product is officially released!

Another interesting angle is if this card comes with 480SP or 800SP on top of the fact if it's true there is RV770Pro, RV770XT and X2. Interesting post from W1z that puts this into prospective of why I say what I say. But again, we won't know for sure until it's released

IMO, if it's true that there is a 800SP card using 32 TMUs found in the RV770Pro (for example) it should not be called a mainstream card :p:. The point isn't if it's true or not, what is the point is there are way to many contradicting leaks presented. Therefore, it's better to wait and see what's released.

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The West "heard" increase TO 480SPs.
The East "heard" increase OF 480SPs. (aka. 320+480=800SPs)
This is what has been "leaking" since tape-out.

And to whomever was wondering if AMD/ATi ever talked about the release. They have always been shooting for a late Q2 launch for R700 and it's derivatives. So.... Yes, they have talked about these cards before.

800 SP just doesn't fit with the rest of the speculation.....

We know that there are not enough TMUs already in rv670. 320 SP with 16 TMUs causes a bottleneck by the TMUs. Even if the TMU count is doubled to 32 it will have an even WORSE ratio of SP:TMU than rv670 which would make no sense whatsoever. 800 SP with 32 TMUs would have a bigger TMU bottleneck than 320 SP with 16 TMUs. It also doesn't make sense from a die size/TDP point of view. rv770 is not rumored to have a monster die size or TDP so the transistor count can't be THAT much greater than rv670.

Also 512-bit + GDDR5 = pointless
current memory bandwidth with 256-bit and GDDR4 @ 2200 = 70.4GB/sec
512-bit + GDDR5 @ 3800 = 243.2GB/sec

There is no need for that amount of memory bandwidth. GDDR5 will not be cheap when it is first released, nor is making a card with 512-bit memory interface cheap. Doing both would make the card more expensive to manufacture with an insignificant performance gain. It will be either 512-bit or GDDR5, not both.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

GDDR5 and 512bit makes no sense...


Actually there have always been those rumors...



The West "heard" increase TO 480SPs.
The East "heard" increase OF 480SPs. (aka. 320+480=800SPs)
This is what has been "leaking" since tape-out.

And to whomever was wondering if AMD/ATi ever talked about the release. They have always been shooting for a late Q2 launch for R700 and it's derivatives. So.... Yes, they have talked about these cards before.

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Interesting take.

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(separate post)


Lets throw some specs out there in the wild:

-512bit
-800SP
-32TMU
-1985MHz GDDR5
-850MHz GPU
-?? ROP
-1050MHz independent shader domain
how in the world could it be priced below $400? Oh, don't take my question wrong, I would love for that to be true :p:. But do you honestly thank this is possible? It's good to speculate and throw number out there but don't set yourself up for disappointment either...

I know deep down inside that the card will have 480sp and 256-bit memory. However, in the mean time, I am praying it is 512-bit and 800sp :D

Not going to happen, ati learned with the r600 that more bandwidth than necessary wins bragging rights but not performance, which wins the best paying buyers

RV770 die size confirmed :

http://en.chiphell.com/?p=11

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

RV770 die size confirmed :

http://en.chiphell.com/?p=11

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Too bad we can't see all the gpu-z pic.

It would solve the discussion about the gddr5 memory and the 256/512bits interface :yepp:.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...handle/2-1.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...handle/1-1.jpg
If 256mm2 is true its plausible for: 320SP + 480SP= 800SP IMO :p:

nearly 50% larger die, so 480 shaders makes sense, doubt the 512bit memory, would add a considerable amount to the die size, so gddr5 also makes sense

Hmm, maybe 800sp with 256bits gddr5 :yepp:. It would justify the almost 35% larger die.

35% larger die size.

Trasistor count could be bigger if they use newer 55nm process that TSMC have.

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Originally Posted by v_rr

35% larger die size.

Transistor count could be bigger if they use newer 55nm process that TSMC have.

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Which they are using, at least according to all current rumors and they do make sense.
I'd say this would bring the the transistor count to 900-1000 million transistors (0,9-1 billion). An 33,3% increase in die size would yield 890 million transistors for the chip if it still used the RV670's process, but the newer process might improve upon this.

hmm, that may be possible, but still, 800 shaders, that would mean the r700 will run hot as hell, even on 45nm 1600 shaders would run hot

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Originally Posted by Helmore

An 33,3% increase in die size would yield 890 million transistors for the chip if it still used the RV670's process, but the newer process might improve upon this.

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The exact value is 34.7%~35% = 900M transistores in the same manufacturing 55nm.

If they use the new 55nm process from TSMC the transistor count can go to 1000M transistors.
They can also remove some redundant parts to increase yields of RV670.

They have very space do increase specs. 480SP + 32TMU + 256bit + improved caches, z-bufferring and so on.

Read this

Highlights:

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...Yes, we know, we previously said that the 4800 series would launch in May, but as it stands right now, we won’t be seeing the first new cards until mid-June. According To AMD’s current introduction schedule, the Radeon 4800 series will launch in week 25, which puts the day of the introduction somewhere between June 15 and June 22. What is significant about this time frame is that ATI will trail Nvidia and their new high-end chip GT200...

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ATI's Radeon 4800 series will be introduced in three flavors - as 4850, 4870 and 4870 X2. The company will also offer a “4850 256MB” (as opposed to 512 MB in other versions), but this SKU is a so-called "option" and is geared towards to the OEM/ODM/SI crowd to support them with cheaper parts for the back-to-school period and beyond...

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AMD will follow up in July and launch the Radeon 4870 512 MB GDDR5 and the 4870 X2 1024 MB GDDR5 (R700). The Radeon 4870 chip is built onto a board codenamed “Trojan” (could be named after a condom brand or a horse; we pick the latter) and comes with a dual-slot cooler, following the tradition of earlier XX70 boards. Our previous information about the memory buffer was a bit inaccurate, since the cost of Qimonda's GDDR5 memory apparently was not compatible with the targeted pricing of these cards...

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In terms of performance, we heard some interesting claims. A 4870 should perform on par with or better than a dual-chip 3870 X2. Our sources explained to us that using a PCIe Gen1 controller 3870 X2 was a mistake, since the board was hungry for data and didn't sync well with this interface. Don’t expect the ATI team to repeat that mistake with the 4870 X2. However, we admit that we have no idea what kind of connection two RV770 GPUs will have...

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What surprises us is that the manufacturer is highlighting a "Game physics processing capability" in its launch materials. Since ATI didn't bid for Havok (which ended up in Intel’s lap) and Nvidia snapped up PhysX we wonder who provides a physics engine for ATI. Perhaps the company took a completely different direction and it simply expanded its GPGPU capabilities from professional FireStream cards to the desktop.

What surprises us is that the manufacturer is highlighting a "Game physics processing capability" in its launch materials. Since ATI didn't bid for Havok (which ended up in Intel’s lap) and Nvidia snapped up PhysX we wonder who provides a physics engine for ATI. Perhaps the company took a completely different direction and it simply expanded its GPGPU capabilities from professional FireStream cards to the desktop.

Every aspect of the GPU is monitored by PowerPlay, since ATI will be very aggressive on the power side: The boards have been designed with power in mind and the 4850/4870 won't require 8+6-pin combinations (exception: The dual-GPU 4870 X2). Power supply requirements call for a 450 watt unit for a single card and a 550 watt version for two cards. Given the fact that ATI has to state this for PoS power supplies, CrossFire should do just fine with a top notch 400 watt power supply...

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AMD decided to remain aggressive in an effort to win back market share. Pricing is actually set to a point where Nvidia is unlikely to be able to compete (that is at least what somebody is hoping for). Pricing guidelines are not finalized at this time, but according to several sources, the Radeon 4850 will succeed the 3850 512MB and should cost about $189-$219 at launch. Our sources indicated that 4870 GDDR5 cards will cost between $249 and $279, but somehow we feel that AMD might aim go for $199 and $249 at launch.

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source

I'd like to know what they mean by they were wrong about the memory buffer, that could hint towards 512 bit memory or just that they had something else wrong

Launch in May uh? Sure :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Launch in May uh? Sure :rolleyes:

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who knows it could be an uber paper launch, and be announced may 29th and then "launched" may 30th and finally not show up until its june 1st of 09:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...handle/1-1.jpg
If 256mm2 is true its plausible for: 320SP + 480SP= 800SP IMO :p:

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if this true, and if this true: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=262

than AMD will have extreme manufacturing advance, and will have no problem in making profitable Dual-GPU cards...

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Originally Posted by AliG

hmm, that may be possible, but still, 800 shaders, that would mean the r700 will run hot as hell, even on 45nm 1600 shaders would run hot

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I don't think you can compare it to RV670 with a straight face.
It's probably a better, more optimized 55nm with better optimization too.

Plus, the XT *does* have a big cooler and all. The Pro should have lesser clocks.

It could probably be compared with the stillborn "A13" RV670.

4870 > = 3870 X2? :D Sweet!

Especially if its priced at $249 at launch. :D

He's not far off for once Theo.

//Andreas

I don't think 800SPs + 32TMUs will fit in that die... That was just a rumour.

96 complex shaders need additional transistor count of ~200 M, which that means a total number will be more than 890-900 M .

july for the 4870x2 with gddr5 :(

vr-zone

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AMD has just confirmed the marketing name for RV770 yesterday which is no surprise to anyone, the Radeon HD 4800 series. RV770PRO is Radeon HD 4850, RV770XT is Radeon HD 4870 and R700 is Radeon HD 4870 X2. AMD will be shipping RV770 GPUs to AIB by end of this month and you can expect different card designs from the manufacturers at launch. AMD is set to launch the Radeon HD 4850 on June 18th and it is definitely a hard one with retail availability on the same day. Radeon HD 4870, however, will be launched a week later on June 25th with retail availability in July due to GDDR5 availability. Radeon HD 4870 X2 will come later in Q3. As for the clocks, we won't be revealing them yet but the RV770XT core clock is not going anywhere above 800MHz.

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so the core clock stays below 800 MHz, shader clock goes above?

LOL where is that 1000+MHz core now :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

LOL where is that 1000+MHz core now :rolleyes:

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That was a previewer overclock, apparently.

The report was considering how far previewers had gotten it.

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

vr-zone

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anyone still want to prove to me that 1600 shaders won't be too hot:shakes:


I'm 99% certain we're going to see 480 shaders, only reason I can think about for below 800mhz stock clock is because of heat issues (or tdp). But I wouldn't be surprised if we see oc versions going above 900mhz

I'm going to have to make do with a 3870 for a while longer then :(

I am still tempted to just buy a second 3870 as always, but the 4870 is looking really promising.

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Originally Posted by bhavv

I am still tempted to just buy a second 3870 as always, but the 4870 is looking really promising.

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3870 and 4870 will be working side by side due to hybrid crossfire

nope, do you have any proof? Do the 3870 and 2600xt work together? No. That's because hybrid xfire works only within its family, and the 4870 is in the 48xx family, and very different from 3870 (which to point out the 3870 and 2900xt are basically the same card and thus same family and the 3870 would probably lag down the 4870 meaning uneaven gameplay even if it would work)

The real count is 999M of transitors.

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Originally Posted by madcho

The real count is 999M of transitors.

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Source :shrug: ?

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7...ikleryutg2.jpg

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Originally Posted by mascaras

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7...ikleryutg2.jpg

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Good to see but most of those we already knew....

Need some real figures!

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Originally Posted by mascaras

*snip*

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Ignoring GDDR5, isn't that all true of the 3??? series :confused:

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Originally Posted by Seraphiel

Ignoring GDDR5, isn't that all true of the 3??? series :confused:

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That and UVD2.

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

That and UVD2.

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I stand corrected then :)

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

96 complex shaders need additional transistor count of ~200 M, which that means a total number will be more than 890-900 M .

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Unless you actually work for AMD/ATi and are an engineer, then you have NO IDEA. There is NO WAY to estimate, anywhere close to accurate, without some very detailed classified info.
The best we can do is assume that 800SPs isn't out of the question, looking back at R520->R580.
Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no.

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

Source :shrug: ?

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he probably took 666 and multiplied it by 1.5, which isn't a realistic number

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Originally Posted by Seraphiel

I stand corrected then :)

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I wonder what they did to add that 2 to the name. The problem of DXVA is that you can only use it with certain video streams and with certain combination of filters and renderers. Flexibility = 0. I hope to see some enhancements here.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Unless you actually work for AMD/ATi and are an engineer, then you have NO IDEA. There is NO WAY to estimate, anywhere close to accurate, without some very detailed classified info.
The best we can do is assume that 800SPs isn't out of the question, looking back at R520->R580.
Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no.

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I suppose that it is possible as you said, because the r580 had 3x the pipelines the r520 had. But the way I see it, the rv670 was a stepping stone towards getting the process right for fusion, and then the rv770 will bring some big performance to make a profit, and then the r8xx whatever fusion is will be a perfected form of the r600 design, whatever that may be. So I predict a very noticeable increase, but a 150% increase in shaders? With how little the dize size is changing, I find that hard to believe


Come to think about it, the r600 could be looked at like the r520. It lost to nvidia's high end, but isn't wasn't made to win, it was made more so as a test to pave the way for the next big bomb they drop on the market. Although not the best marketing strategy, when funding is low, that's what you have to do, and I actually wouldn't be surprised if the rv770 wows us more than we predict

This guy appears to have access to "some" insider info (grain of salt applies here). I've never seen this person post info like this unless he was sure of it. But anything is possible he could be just blowing wind. Time will tell. Hold your breath and take it with a pinch of salt.

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...I already have performance figures on both the rv770 (faster then the 8800 gtx/ultra by around 15%) and gt200 (125% faster the the gtx and ultra). You won't be the first one I did this to, it will be fun.

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In a later post he admits he's not sure if it was the pro or XT. Again take it with a grain of salt...

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

This guy appears to have access to "some" insider info (grain of salt applies here). I've never seen this person post info like this unless he was sure of it. But anything is possible and he could be just blowing wind. Time will tell. Hold your breath and take it with a pinch of salt.


In a later post he admits he's not sure if it was the pro or XT. Again take it with a grain of salt...

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If that is correct, the 4870 is going to suck?

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Originally Posted by 003

If that is correct, the 4870 is going to suck?

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IMO not at all. 15% faster then an Ultra/GTX is pretty good, late but still good for a midrange card. As was suggested, they need to get the X2 out the door ASAP. If it's just CF on a card it's not going to be very competitive. ATI can't be going back to "works well in this game, not in that game" scenarios. If it's dual GPU hybrid or a shared memory CF card then it might be something of interest as a high end card. But hey, hard to say one way or another.

If this info. is true I have to wonder if it's using 480SP or 800SP. If 480SP that's freaking efficient (among other techinical advances we are unaware of right now).


Edit: If it's true that the 4870 has 480 stream processing units that's actually 96 Superscalar Shader Processors (someone correct me if I am wrong). Beating video cards with as many as 128 Shader Processor units. Even though it doesn't "hand GX2 a new one" that's pretty impressive if true. But this is still all speculation...

I know im jumping the gun a little bit, but when can we expect 45nm rv770?

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Originally Posted by drjunk

I know im jumping the gun a little bit, but when can we expect 45nm rv770?

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Most likely Q4. It will either be 45nm or 40nm since both will be ready, roughly, at the same time.

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...gt200 (125% faster the the gtx and ultra). You won't be the first one I did this to, it will be fun.

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:shocked: omg if this can be true well the 4870 will compete against the 8800 GTS 512 which is 15% faster than the ultra:confused:

The 8800 GTS 512 is not faster than the Ultra.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Most likely Q4. It will either be 45nm or 40nm since both will be ready, roughly, at the same time.

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40nm is not ready for actual mass production until next year, sampling will start in late 2008. ;)

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

This guy appears to have access to "some" insider info (grain of salt applies here). I've never seen this person post info like this unless he was sure of it. But anything is possible and he could be just blowing wind. Time will tell. Hold your breath and take it with a pinch of salt.


In a later post he admits he's not sure if it was the pro or XT. Again take it with a grain of salt...

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Cards haven't been sent to partners yet, there are some indications of the performance cards floating around, but they are vastly different.

Remember, this is a mid-range chip. If it actually beats G80/G92 by a margin it surpasses the performance of previous mid-range chips, comparing generation to generation.
The dual-chip is the high-end. And I don't like his phrasing, because he seems to leave this part out. RV770 is mid-range, it never was anything else, while 4870X2 is high-end.

//Andreas

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

This guy appears to have access to "some" insider info (grain of salt applies here). I've never seen this person post info like this unless he was sure of it. But anything is possible he could be just blowing wind. Time will tell. Hold your breath and take it with a pinch of salt.


In a later post he admits he's not sure if it was the pro or XT. Again take it with a grain of salt...

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In this casе HD4870X2 will not have any chances to beat GT200 .

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

In this casе HD4870X2 will not have any chances to beat GT200 .

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The way I see it if RV770 is truly faster then 8800Ultra, it'll KILL nvidia's complete offering in range of 199-399 USD! Effectively sending 8800GT & 8800GTS, as well as 9800GT/GTS to premature retirement! That'll cut of NVIDIA's biggest source of income - mainstream market! I don't see that Highend, megalomaniac 575 mm^2 big GT200 will make satisfactory income flow substitution!

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

In this casе HD4870X2 will not have any chances to beat GT200 .

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So what? Like 10000 people buy the very high end anyway.

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

This guy appears to have access to "some" insider info (grain of salt applies here). I've never seen this person post info like this unless he was sure of it. But anything is possible he could be just blowing wind. Time will tell. Hold your breath and take it with a pinch of salt.


In a later post he admits he's not sure if it was the pro or XT. Again take it with a grain of salt...

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Monkeys can make predictions too. :rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

So what? Like 10000 people buy the very high end anyway.

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Ultra high-end plays more PR role . Most people in the world don't make a difference between Nvidia and ATI .

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

This guy appears to have access to "some" insider info (grain of salt applies here). I've never seen this person post info like this unless he was sure of it. But anything is possible he could be just blowing wind. Time will tell. Hold your breath and take it with a pinch of salt.


In a later post he admits he's not sure if it was the pro or XT. Again take it with a grain of salt...

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"Performance figures." How enlightening.

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

Monkeys can make predictions too. :rofl::rofl:

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By that definition posts like this would also apply. As stated in that post all is taken with a grain of salt. I believe you have forgotten that most information in this thread has been speculation.

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Originally Posted by NH|Delph1

...
Cards haven't been sent to partners yet, there are some indications of the performance cards floating around, but they are vastly different.

Remember, this is a mid-range chip. If it actually beats G80/G92 by a margin it surpasses the performance of previous mid-range chips, comparing generation to generation.
The dual-chip is the high-end. And I don't like his phrasing, because he seems to leave this part out. RV770 is mid-range, it never was anything else, while 4870X2 is high-end.

//Andreas

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From what I've read/understood they have (although it was speculation). That's part of the reason why I posted it.

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Originally Posted by whocaresbg

In this casе HD4870X2 will not have any chances to beat GT200 .

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I wouldn't be so sure of that just yet. Lets look at this from another point of view. Is it really necessary to beat the card if frame rates in nearly all games (at higher resolutions) are above playable at a lower price point? IMO, if a situation like that exists then it shouldn't matter.