The LCD Buyers Guide

Well crap, I found something on this LCD that has me pissed off to high hell. On the bottom of the screen, it has some SERIOUS light bleeding issues. On dark maps in CS:S for example, you can see it very clearly.

Does anyone if I can return the monitor to Compusa because of this?

I was thinking about returning it and exchanging it for this one:

930b

Any opinions?

EDIT*

Just checked my receipt and it says I can return it within 21 days of purchase if I'm not sattisfied so I think thats what I'll do. Question is; Is the Samsung 930B suitable for gaming? I think it must be an MVA panel, or I hope at least.

Yes, thats right, I'm asking about a monitor that has 930b in its name but not the Samsung 930b, rather the viewsonic vp930b - I have read that this monitor will possibly be replacing the vp191b. The only difference on paper I see is that the newer viewsonic's panel has a 1000:1 contrast ratio rather than the 191b's 800:1.
But I have learned to be suspicious of "claims" about LCD monitor performance from manufacturers. Does any one own one or have any insights about it? It seems to new to have any professional reviews out about it yet.
Viewsonic vp930b
I was looking at possibly getting the vp191b but that might turn out to be a bad move if this one is the same in most respects and maybe better in others.

Just went to Compusa and exchanged my VX924 for the Samsung 930B. GODDAMITT!!!

This thing has light bleeding ON ALL 4 EDGES of the screen. And on the top edged the light bleeding extends a good 1 1/2-2" down. It completely ruins the gaming experience on dark levels.

On the plus side, it does have GREAT color representaion, no ghosting or motion blurring (in BF2, FFXI, ans CS:S atleast).

I think I'm going to keep it for a couple of days and go back to the VX924.

Does anyone have any opinions on an LCD that doesn't have light bleeding at all?

I keep hearing about the 930B being the best-value in 19" myself, however; I haven't heard about "bleeding" issues.

930b light bleeding

Do a find of "bleed" on that web page and you'll read what I'm talking about. Basically it's as if the backlight of the LCD got in through the edges of the screen and completely drowns out the black color on the edges so they look like a dark grey instead of black.

I think I'll go to CompUSA and exchange it for another 930B as one user commented he had to go through 3 930b's till he found one without this issue. If the next one still has the same issue, I'm switching back to the VX924 as the light bleeding on that one is much more minor than this one, and it's only on the bottom of the screen.

I'll miss the better color production on DVD'd and such, but I'm mostly a gamer so I'll just live with it.

Can you post a picture of the screen on a compleatly black background so I know what your talking about?

Just thought I'd follow up on a thread I had a few months ago about buying a 19" TFT, but after a good few months use with the display. I ended up going for a viewsonic VP191B, best decision I ever made, in fact I'd go so far as to call it the best computer related purchase I ever made.

Colour reproduction is fantastic, vivid and dynamic, but not to much and not over saturated. Viewing angles are unbelievable, I can watch the screen from anywhere in the room and it still looks perfect. Gaming is just a pleasure, with only VERY minor bluring on a few colour transitions (A flag marker on BF2 against a dark background for example blurs slightly when you move), dark levels look great and bright colourful levels look outstanding. The ergonomics are just brilliant, its hard to believe I ever lived with position adjusting options of a CRT, being able to bring the panel up so its centred on eye line is great, and then dropping to down so its touching the desk and bringing it forward when your watching films/tv is really great. It looks really impressive styling wise, simplistic black lines and V shaped feet make it look and feel profesional and smooth, my desk has never looked so good (black keyboard mouse + pad and the beautiful VP191B).

Overall as you can guess FANTASTIC! If your thinking about this display, forget the price and BUY BUY BUY!!!! I really could NEVER go back to a CRT after using this, I can bearly use CRTs now, they are never focused or the right brightness and the image is always distorted by the curvature of the glass (even on 'flat' CRTs), and I always try and adjust them to suit me looking at it, never works.

Can a 6600GT handle the max resolution for Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24-in CD?
I'm looking to buy a Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24-inch Wide Aspect Flat Panel LCD and I want to know if my eVGA 6600GT will be able to handle the maximum resolution of 1920 X 1200 at 76Hz.

im getting a vp 191b this week, theo404 you seem to be happy w this lcd how good is for gamming ?

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Originally Posted by agenda2005

Can a 6600GT handle the max resolution for Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24-in CD?

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That's a definite negatory. Check below for a full list of supported cards from Dell.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/lear...tix&~tab=other

s0ulfly:

Its brilliant for gaming, with only very slight bluring on certain colour transitions (nearly always just on one point, never big parts of the screen):

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Gaming is just a pleasure, with only VERY minor bluring on a few colour transitions (A flag marker on BF2 against a dark background for example blurs slightly when you move), dark levels look great and bright colourful levels look outstanding.

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Its really immersive with a 19" LCD, because of the size, and clarity of the image. Honestly you will NOT be able to go back to a CRT, for gaming or anything else.

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Originally Posted by Tibu

Does anyone have any opinions on an LCD that doesn't have light bleeding at all?

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I hear you man. I've been testing a lot of TN panels over the months and I think the best "pure gaming" LCD on the market today is the BenQ FP91V+ (a 6ms GTG TN panel). I actually bought it AGAIN after testing it several months ago and am thinking of actually keeping it this time. Backlight bleeding, amongst other things, was one of the major issues that annoyed me for many of the LCD monitors I tested (although I did not try the 930B, I did test the VX924). Both the new and the previous FP91V+ monitors I tried had no backlight bleeding at all that I could notice.

Beware, however, that the BenQ FP91V+ has a glossy screen. Some may find it annoying for gaming and definitely consider the purchase if you don't have control of the lighting in your room. However, I find it a little less glossy than the NEC LCD1970GX (which had major backlight bleeding) and both movies and games really come alive on it. I actually called a bunch of friends over the other day and showed them some movies on it and everyone left quite impressed. Staples carries it here in Canada.

If I return this monitor, it might be for the new Samsung 19-inch widescreen panel just released, the 940MW. It has a widescreen resolution of 1440x900 and is an 8ms TN panel. No reviews on this one yet though that I can find. Also, the FP91V+ has a successor called the FP91V, which is a 4ms TN panel. Problem is that its only been marketed in Europe. The review at hardwarezone.com, however, says the FP91V+ is still better.

Oh and just so everyone knows before deciding to fork out tons of cash for a nice monitor. Windows Vista scheduled for release in less than 18 months from now will apparently make ALL CURRENT MONITORS OBSOLETE. Do a Google search of it to find out the facts... but, as I understand it, it will use a certain high resolution format that no current monitor supports.

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Windows Vista scheduled for release in less than 18 months from now will apparently make ALL CURRENT MONITORS OBSOLETE.

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I seriously doubt this, microsoft would never shoot themselves in the foot like that. Maybe if it was to released in two years, just maybe that would be so, but 18 months??? Would they really expect all windows vista users to buy a new display.....i think not. There will be a patch or even just a different setting that enables you to use current displays.

Woooo, hold it right there.
No one buy a 2405fpw or any other LCDs > 19" !
You will regret it really bad :nono:

We are at a point where LCD tech is starting to evolve.
Faster, and better looking LCDs will arive, just be patient.

Check out these articles from BeHardware:
1) New TN and VA panel updates. We will start to see 8ms 20", 23", and 24" more accessible in price, and perform better than LCDs like the 2x05FPWs and the Apple Cinemas
http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...christmas.html
2) SED comming soon. SED TVs expected late this year, and SED PC Monitors expected late 2006 - Early 2007. If I were you, I would wait for one of those 8ms 20" VA panels for about 550 € and then update to a SED monitor on 2007.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...-kind-sed.html

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Originally Posted by Turok

Woooo, hold it right there.
No one buy a 2405fpw or any other LCDs > 19" !
You will regret it really bad :nono:

We are at a point where LCD tech is starting to evolve.
Faster, and better looking LCDs will arive, just be patient.

Check out these articles from BeHardware:
1) New TN and VA panel updates. We will start to see 8ms 20", 23", and 24" more accessible in price, and perform better than LCDs like the 2x05FPWs and the Apple Cinemas
http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...christmas.html
2) SED comming soon. SED TVs expected late this year, and SED PC Monitors expected late 2006 - Early 2007. If I were you, I would wait for one of those 8ms 20" VA panels for about 550 € and then update to a SED monitor on 2007.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...-kind-sed.html

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Thanks for the advice. I'm actually getting the monitor for someone that I'm building a new system for. I will talk to him and advise him on what you've said.

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Originally Posted by Theo404

I seriously doubt this, microsoft would never shoot themselves in the foot like that. Maybe if it was to released in two years, just maybe that would be so, but 18 months??? Would they really expect all windows vista users to buy a new display.....i think not. There will be a patch or even just a different setting that enables you to use current displays.

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Sorry, Theo404, should have explained more in detail. You will apparently be able to use your current displays, but you will have a significant loss in functionality of what you are able to do with Windows Vista. This is what I meant by current monitors going obsolete. As for Microsoft shooting itself in the foot... as I understand it they don't have much choice. Something about the new format being able to prevent the pirating of movies and perhaps software and therefore its being pushed hard by other industries.

Anyways, just look up any information on Windows Vista and you'll see that many reports have confirmed this.

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Originally Posted by Turok

Woooo, hold it right there.
No one buy a 2405fpw or any other LCDs > 19" !
You will regret it really bad

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Sure, when Turok says it and everyone listens. When I say it, everyone ignores me ;)

The Dell 2405 FPW is the worst 23-inch panel you can buy... there is a reason why it is so cheap. In general, if you have a powerful graphics card, you want to be able to take advantage of the speed. There is no panel > 19-inch that is faster than 16ms, which translates to a MAXIMUM of 62 FPS in the best possible scenario. Since, a 16ms panel will have most transitions worse than 16ms, the actual frame rate you'll be able to see will be significantly less than 62 FPS... maybe like 30-40 FPS. What's the point of having a powerful graphics card and buying monitor which will hinder your gaming experience by so much... not to mention the afterglow issues?

If you need to buy an LCD today, I'd suggest an 8ms or faster panel. Panels like the Samsung 930BF, BenQ FP91V+ and Viewsonic VX924 use various forms of Overdrive technologies that increase voltage to speed up transition times to allow monitors to handle much higher FPS and reduce afterglow. The VP191B and its successor the VP930B are better all around monitors, but they are 8ms MVA panels and slower than these fast TN panels for gaming. You can see proof of this here (compare afterglow results of different monitors including the VP191B and CRTs):

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.p...89&ma2=48&ph=2

BTW, Turok, I just got your PM (I didn't log on for a while)... feel free to add my other post to this guide bro. I just thought it was somewhat unrelated and might of done well as a post on its own.

thanks god I saw this last posts, I had already on mind getting one 23" LCD in next couple weeks, thanks to Turok and ever1 else who helped on this great guide, one of the best if not the best guide I already saw about LCD's

:worship: :worship: :worship:

There's no functionality being lost in Windows Vista with current monitors.

It's just High-Definition video and the ability to see it on your computer screen.

If your monitor is not HDCP compliant, then you won't be able to watch High-definition video on your computer.

That's it. That's all.

Gaming and all the other things will work just fine.

For clarification, please see this:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...hdcp-vista.ars

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...isplayPort.php

:( i read this now :P i got my vp191b today xD

i love this lcd

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Originally Posted by Salahuddin

The Dell 2405 FPW is the worst 23-inch panel you can buy... there is a reason why it is so cheap. In general, if you have a powerful graphics card, you want to be able to take advantage of the speed. There is no panel > 19-inch that is faster than 16ms, which translates to a MAXIMUM of 62 FPS in the best possible scenario. Since, a 16ms panel will have most transitions worse than 16ms, the actual frame rate you'll be able to see will be significantly less than 62 FPS... maybe like 30-40 FPS. What's the point of having a powerful graphics card and buying monitor which will hinder your gaming experience by so much... not to mention the afterglow issues?

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I dont agree about this. I think 24" adds to the experience + 1920*1080.
I have a Samsung 242mp but had an order for a 8ms gaming lcd before i got this one here. I was going to be gaming on the 19" because of posts like yours. But if one read other ppls reviews ppl that have the screen 99% thinks thier lcd´s is great. And that not only because "bragging rights" and not admitting to put big cash for a not so good screen.
I canceled the order om the 19"lcd when i got this screen. I cant see any ghosting and what i see is what counts for me, and big screen is nice when gaming. High resolution also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by okra

There's no functionality being lost in Windows Vista with current monitors.

It's just High-Definition video and the ability to see it on your computer screen.

If your monitor is not HDCP compliant, then you won't be able to watch High-definition video on your computer.

That's it. That's all.

Gaming and all the other things will work just fine.

For clarification, please see this:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...hdcp-vista.ars

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I believe I read somewhere that future games will contain HDCP content as well. If this is true, that means current monitors won't support high definition content in new games and videos. Perhaps you can still watch movies and play games... but I guess it comes down to what you consider makes a piece of technology obsolete or not. IMO this would be a big loss in functionality and would make my monitor obsolete. I would also personally regret it I blew a lot of cash on a monitor now to find this out later. To each his own I guess.

If it sounded like I meant your ability to actually click on icons and open programs or other simple Windows functionality would be lost, I apologize because that isn't what I meant.

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Originally Posted by Danne980

I dont agree about this. I think 24" adds to the experience + 1920*1080.
I have a Samsung 242mp but had an order for a 8ms gaming lcd before i got this one here. I was going to be gaming on the 19" because of posts like yours. But if one read other ppls reviews ppl that have the screen 99% thinks thier lcd´s is great. And that not only because "bragging rights" and not admitting to put big cash for a not so good screen.
I canceled the order om the 19"lcd when i got this screen. I cant see any ghosting and what i see is what counts for me, and big screen is nice when gaming. High resolution also.

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I'm not saying not to love your 24-inch monitor. But facts are facts, and I'm only posting the facts. Playing in high resolution on a large screen indeed can increase the gaming experience by making you feel more immersed, but 99% of users don't think 23+ inch screen are great for gaming. That is myth not fact. No professional review has ever rated a 23+ inch, or even 20-inch monitor for that matter, over a fast 17 or 19-inch TN panel in terms of gaming performance.

I'm not familiar with the Samsung monitor you have, but looking it up on www.prad.de, I see it is a 16ms PVA panel. That is the same panel-type used in the Dell 2405FPW. Its fine if you don't notice any afterglow. There are people out there that don't notice afterglow on a 25ms PVA panel. And the fact is, the more you play on any monitor, the less you "notice" the afterglow. This, however, doesn't change the facts. There IS afterglow... and competitive gamers will be disadvantaged on panels whether they see afterglow or not, simply because the monitor's ability to react to motion is less. Even on a 20-inch 16ms S-IPS panel I tested (Viewsonic V201S), which has fairly low afterglow and is much more responsive than a 16ms PVA panel, I noticed an instantaneous improvement in my first-person shooter gaming when moving to an 8ms TN panel. Plus, remember that response time gets worse the larger the panel becomes, so a 24-inch 16ms panel is less responsive than that exact same panel in a 19-inch or smaller display. And this all goes without even mentioning frames per second (FPS)... you can look up yourself what the maximum FPS achievable on a 16ms screen is (its 62 FPS). That is the best case scenario and its fact.

At the end of the day, you can disagree with what you feel is better for gaming, but you can't disagree with the responsiveness of the panel. What panel you prefer depends on what type of game you're playing too. If you like MMORPGs or single-player FPSs, where you prefer the immersion of a big screen over being competitive and you don't demand really fast frame rates... than I can totally see the enjoyment a 16ms 24-inch panel would bring. However, if you're competitive, prefer gaming at fast frame rates, and depend on your reaction time (as in multiplayer FPS and strategy games)... you will be limited by your monitor.

In the end, the industry is pushing LCDs with lower response times precisely for this reason... if 99% of people found 16ms PVA panels perfect for gaming, there would be no point nor profit in doing this.

Making final purchase need help. Prefer not to have item shipped due top compications which can arise so the first few choices are to local electronic stores. My budget for 19" LCD is only $350 maximium. All below are 19" Your input would be greatly app-rciated. I'm looking for all around quality with a leaning towards gaming and DVD playback.

1.) Circuit city Samsung 930B $329 aftr $70 rebate

2.) Circuit city Gateway FPD1960 $309 after $40 REBATE

3.) Circuit city Proview PL916S $299 after $50 rebate

4.) Best Buy Samsung 914V $329

5.) Staples NEC ASLCD92V $349

6.) CompUSA Aduveu 1901B $299

7.) Newegg BenQ FP91G+ $275 after $30 rebate

8.) Newegg Viewsonic VX924 $349

Any other suggestions would help, and there's many at Newegg but I'm trying to avoid getting a damaged panle such as dead pixels, etc.

Hey Liquid3D,

That's smart. Buy from local resellers with a 14-30 day no hassle return policy. That way if you have dead pixels, backlight issues or just don't like the monitor, you didn't just waste your money.

On your list, the best monitor on there IMO, is the Viewsonic VX924. I've read it has excellent black levels for a TN panel and decent picture quality. However, I don't think it is THAT BIG of an improvement over previous generation 8ms TN panels that it is worth $100 more.

IMO, the Samsung 930B and the BenQ FP91G+ are equivalent in terms of performance. However, check if the FP91G+ has a DVI port or not. No matter what, you want to buy a monitor with a DVI port. I read a review that said the FP91G+ only had only analog input, but BenQ's website says it has DVI. Also, CNET seems to have given the 930B a poor review due to picture quality. I don't see any direct reviews for the FP91G+, but the 17-inch version and the 19-inch predecessor have received good reviews.

The Samsung 914V I believe is a predecessor (i.e. older model) to some really good Samsung monitors. It is analog input only though, I believe.

As for the other monitors, I have never seen any review or read any anecdotes of Gateway or Proview ever making good monitors (rather I've seen the opposite). So I would be hesitant buying these brands. I've never heard of Aduveu, but it seems to be an old 25ms TN or VA type panel. So I suspect it will have significant afterglow issues. Lastly, NEC monitors tend to be overpriced compared to their competitors even when their products aren't better. The NEC ASLCD92V seems like an old model and for $350 you have better monitors on the list to choose from.

In conclusion, the best value on your list, IMO, is the FP91G+ especially if it carries a DVI port. It was recommended on Sharky's High-End Gaming System Buyer's Guide for September 2005:

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/...707_3552841__5

If no DVI port, I'd get the VX924.

BTW... just in case you or someone else may be thinking of purchasing the BenQ FP91V+ (not the FP91G+) that I was saying good things about a couple of posts back... I would now like to warn people NOT TO BUY THIS MONITOR. Although it doesn't have backlight bleeding, it has a backlight that is significantly uneven in its intensity. I didn't notice it at first, but when I displayed uniform colours on my screen, it caught my eye. Then I did some more testing on it, and actually found that this is a problem with the monitor in some of my searches. So its definitely not worth the money. I plan to return mine in the next few days.

Anyways, hope that helps.

Thank you it really does help :)
What I'm thiking is this.
It seems the ONLY reason to go to Circuit City (or buy locally) is the Samsung 930b is avilable locally. Other then that should I simply take the risk (shipping) and go Newegg?

Here's a few 19" deals I forgot (especially the L90D+ which seems to be highly regarded);

1.) Newegg Viewsonic VX924 $349 After $10 instant savings $14.50 shiping

2.) Newegg HYUNDAI L90D+ $319

3.) Newegg Samsung 940b $349 after $10 instant savings, $14.50 3-Day shipped (as are all below)

4.) Newegg Viewsonic VG910b $369

5.) Newegg Viewsonic VA912b $309

6.) Newegg Planar PL1910M $342

It still seems to me as if the Viewsonic VX924 (as you said) seems to on just about every top ten list or gamers list etc along with the 930b (perhaps now the 940b). I won't be doing DVD playback although I did mention that, Ihave a Sony Trinitron TV for that.

I'll use the monitor primarily for Gaming (actually benchmarking for reviews), Internet surfing, writing, and Photo editing for review photos. Bottom line are the Newegg models worth the shipping risk?

Well, I personally consider ordering an LCD online too much of a risk. Its a matter of personal preference and what you're willing to except. Newegg won't replace your item if you have a few dead pixels and you have to pay for shipping back to them I believe. I'm absolutely neurotic when it comes to the condition and performance of my computer parts so I might be in the minority with this suggestion.

I find it strange that the VX924 isn't carried locally. Bestbuy and Staples carries them here in Canada (we don't have Circuit City). Maybe just buy the 930B and try it first... if you don't like it return it then order online if you have no other choice.

However, for the price, I don't think you can go wrong with the Hyundai L90D+ or BenQ FP91G+. The only monitor I might consider better for pure gaming is the VX924, but the difference is very minor that I don't think its worth the cash unless you can get it at a discount.

You know what you can try... IMO the 930B, the L90D+ and the FP91G+ will be very close in gaming performance. Visual quality is hard to estimate since there aren't many reviews on the FP91G+... Also, I've heard the L90D+ looks very good, but its a little too bright (notice its higher contrast ratio to the other monitors). So, I would do a trial of the 930B and download this small program:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/ghosting_test.html

Check out the blurring of the car on the last test on the 930B and compare it to the VX924 on this link:

http://www.prohardver.hu/rios3_popup.php?mod=21&id=801 (this is in Hungarian so just look at the pictures)

Then just test out the monitor to see if you notice any blurring in gaming that you find unacceptable and if you think the colours are ok or not (if you have an NVidia card, you can calibrate your monitor on the Display driver). Also, check out the backlight and see if you notice any bleeding. Then you can make a more informed decision on if its worth the risk of ordering any other monitor online or not.

Oh also, you might consider ordering online from Best Buy, Futureshop or Staples if you don't have one locally... you still get a 30 day return period that way. I've also heard that Sam's Club might carry the L90D+ in the US... but you have to visit the store to know for sure. Might want to hit Costco too if you have either locally.