GeForce GTX 490 exists!

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

Seriously do you work for AMD or former ATI?

Its seems like you like to throw rocks on the company just as much as charlie and you want them to go under.

In another thread you were ragging on nvidia for somewhat dishonest advertising. When has AMD been really that honest in its GPU advertising lately? Every recent bar graph comparison has never started at 0 but something like .8 to make it look like a 100% improvement over the competition and also the extreme mudslinging is completely ridiculous lately.

Your even spreading your particular brand of venom on other forums.

"If I won the GTX480, and I won't be entering, I'll hawk it off to some idiot who wants to pay for the card and then spend the money on a SSD ... and a 5850."

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/spons.../#post10576572

You must really hate NV if you wouldn't even keep a free card and calling all gtx 480 owners idiots.

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Wat? If I got a 5970 I wouldn't keep it either, I already can't stand the noise a 4870 puts out on automatic fan profile. To me noise is almost 50% of the equation.

As for mudslinging, I'm not sure I can remember any recent situation where ATI was as vocal as nvidia, especially with the whole fiasco leading up to Fermi (just read Saaya's sig for a run down of that). And as for graphs, I never really agreed with any of them from the start, but I can't recall ever commenting on bar graph scale. If you by chance happen to find one, feel free to point it out and I'll apologize.

So did you google my name, or are you actually part of RFD? You're either a) very butthurt, or b) a Canadian. Ouch on both fronts (tongue in cheek, I'm Canadian too).



Also, I find this whole thing hilarious because the 'ATI killer' made from the new price/perf/watt GF104 CHAMP CHIPS was supposed to be released, but it was completely aborted and instead shifted to super secret OEM sales. I'd like to give OP benefit of the doubt, but with no real proof this seems like a grass roots shilling stunt.

And yeah, I personally think that anyone who would buy a GTX480 for gaming is making a bit of an uninformed choice. 3D is great for making you cross-eyed, and PhysX ... well, PhysX is a bonus but certainly not an incentive. From my perspective (forget about heat), the noise that thing puts out is simply unacceptable. Standard excuses of 'increase volume until gunshots reverberate inside your chest' need not apply here.



My dear, you need to take my quote in context. At that time a GTX480 would have fetched a premium price, enough for a boot SSD + a GFX upgrade. While I clearly have stated that this generation is lackluster, I won't turn down a free upgrade with minimal noise impact. At that time, what GFX could I upgrade too with a good noise footprint? If that statement was made today, I would have changed the 5850 to "5850/GTX460." I probably would've gotten the 460 too, considering it's dead silent and admittedly much better back end support (developer and whatnot). Also I think nvidia has always had superior thermal engineering.

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Originally Posted by cegras

Wat? If I got a 5970 I wouldn't keep it either, I already can't stand the noise a 4870 puts out on automatic fan profile. To me noise is almost 50% of the equation.

As for mudslinging, I'm not sure I can remember any recent situation where ATI was as vocal as nvidia, especially with the whole fiasco leading up to Fermi (just read Saaya's sig for a run down of that). And as for graphs, I never really agreed with any of them from the start, but I can't recall ever commenting on bar graph scale. If you by chance happen to find one, feel free to point it out and I'll apologize.

So did you google my name, or are you actually part of RFD? You're either a) very butthurt, or b) a Canadian. Ouch on both fronts (tongue in cheek, I'm Canadian too).



Also, I find this whole thing hilarious because the 'ATI killer' was supposed to be released, but it was completely aborted and instead shifted to super secret OEM sales. I'd like to give OP benefit of the doubt, but with no real proof this seems like a grass roots shilling stunt.

And yeah, I personally think that anyone who would buy a GTX480 for gaming is making a bit of an uninformed choice. 3D is great for making you cross-eyed, and PhysX ... well, PhysX is a bonus but certainly not an incentive. From my perspective (forget about heat), the noise that thing puts out is simply unacceptable. Standard excuses of 'increase volume until gunshots reverberate inside your chest' need not apply here.

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If you look below my name, it should be obvious that I am Canadian and a member of redflagdeals.

I think your being overly critical on NV and appear to like seeing them fail considering the tone of your posts. Additionally, you seem to turn a blind eye to AMD recent marketing antics which are if anything more recently, more misleading. Bargraphs that show that are manipulated so they make that they are twice as fast as the competition is very misleading and you should be critical for them for that.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2908/4

http://xtreview.com/images/radeon%20...t%20tst10b.png

http://www.dvhardware.net/news/ati_r...ance_slide.jpg

I think we should hope that both company can succeed so we get some competition. Some of the new chiphell leaks are showing that AMD is going to price this generation of cards to their highest yet. A 5970 being out priced by the 6970. Considering that it is already a 700 dollar card, it scary to think how pricey it can get.

But I think recently NV has become rather humble and apologetic. It hasn't been beating its chest as much as say AMD. E.g there whitepaper article at anandtech where they are talking about Fermi. When they had the small fiasco of an announcement of an announcement, they released they had made an error in marketing and apologized. A tolerance for failure comment they realized they had screwed up and are trying to fix things.

The only thing they said in regards to Fermi speed in the past was, the 5870 is fast but not that fast in which it isn't. The problem Fermi wasn't that fast either.

I think for the long term, if you could get them at the same price, a gtx 480 is a better card than a 5870 not so much for its directx 10 performance but its directx 11. Another benefit of Gtx 480 which is very real is they tend to do much better in the way it is meant to be played games.

One more reason is if someone wants top performance, its probably a better value to get two gtx 480 than say two 5970, which due to bad crossfire scaling really don't perform that much better at a significantly higher cost.

Sure it might generate some heat and use alot more power, but honestly power is cheap in canada and its damn cold here especially in saskatchewan.

I don't think I turn a blind eye. The first graph is mobility, and I have thusfar never needed a mobility part so I don't read reviews at all ... except to have a good laugh at a 100W TDP GTX480. Vendor preference or not, that's kinda giggly. But like I said, I don't think I've ever commented on bar graphs from either side, I know how to read them and without knowledge of testing conditions they're useless for anything other than a first approximation.

As for the pricing strategy, as a 'value minded' consumer all I see is this: "my budget is ideally under 200 or around there. What can I get, and will it be worth it?" I have never really been bothered about pricing on flagships (and I don't think I've ever contradicted myself) because I simply don't care. If the card isn't worth it at my budget, I just won't buy it. Judging future pricing strategy based upon projected flagship pricing doesn't really help.

As for heat and power, I don't really get into a knot over it. What I'm worried about is the acoustics that accompany the heat a certain power draw produces. The 4850 was fine because even at high temps that heat generated was low, the heatsink could be small and quiet. But the GTX480 simply nearly overwhelms its cooler (and goes into turbine mode). Acoustics acoustics acoustics. I would never ever use a 5970 or a GTX480, and I probably wouldn't go for a 5870 or GTX470 either.

Midrange, where regular income people like me sit, is the pit of compromise.

I do eagerly await the next gen, and while I might post more in nvidia threads about how they aren't cutting it, the fact that my GFX has not changed reflects that I don't think ATI is really cutting it either. ; )

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Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

That would be too hot, too power hungry, and too expensive. That's why we didn't get a double-GPU while 470 has been out there for a while.

I hope it is 460x2 2GB. It would be cool, quiet, power efficient, and hopefully will go for $349:D. In case, it will send a shock wave and tear apart all prices from top to bottom. The price is just some hope and speculations tho, but in case will make the day for us frequent consumers of GPU.

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nvidias too proud to make a high end dual gpu card that wont outperform atis high end
expect something crazy, like maybe a 470x2 with newer revision silicon

who cares about the heat/power consumption. high efficiency psus are all over the place, and electricity costs are really nothing with computers
some of us prefer v8s over boosted 4/6's :D

Also tajoh, I secretly think it'd be incredibly hilarious if terrace was right about bulldozer.

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Originally Posted by cegras

Hiiiilarious.

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What he said.

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Originally Posted by cegras

But the GTX480 simply nearly overwhelms its cooler (and goes into turbine mode). Acoustics acoustics acoustics. I would never ever use a 5970 or a GTX480, and I probably wouldn't go for a 5870 or GTX470 either.

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With the standard factory BIOS profile I don't find the noise of the GTX 480 worse than the 280 GTX for instance. During gaming it's not problem at all and at idle you won't hear much inside a case.

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

I think for the long term, if you could get them at the same price, a gtx 480 is a better card than a 5870 not so much for its directx 10 performance but its directx 11. Another benefit of Gtx 480 which is very real is they tend to do much better in the way it is meant to be played games.

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For get about scaling. Both top-end cards are very fast and nice products. The problem ATi has is big Crossfire stutter problems in some good games. Sometimes they get fixed months later or not at all (GTA4).

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Originally Posted by cx-ray

For get about scaling. Both top-end cards are very fast and nice products. The problem ATi has is big Crossfire stutter problems in some good games. Sometimes they get fixed months later or not at all (GTA4).

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Almost as many issues as people are having with the GTX 460's and stutter in SLI or otherwise... ;)

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Originally Posted by Ejizz

Almost as many issues as people are having with the GTX 460's and stutter in SLI or otherwise... ;)

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I don't know anything about the 460 :) I can only speak for 280 GTX, GTX 480, and trying out the HD 5970 on the x58 platform.

Huh, I run a single 460 and have had them in SLI in the past and they were fantastic, what issue are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by Bodkin

Huh, I run a single 460 and have had them in SLI in the past and they were fantastic, what issue are you talking about?

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Watch this Video

Let's all pretend that AMD's multi-GPU setups don't microstutter as well ( ... NOT! )

Yeah, that totally justifies nvidia's problems (NOT).

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

Let's all pretend that AMD's multi-GPU setups don't microstutter as well ( ... NOT! )

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:clap: :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by cegras

Yeah, that totally justifies nvidia's problems (NOT).

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What you guys fail to realize is that both nVIDIA & AMD don't mind microstuttering, and won't do sh1t about it either way.

Multi-GPU setups apart from benchmarking shouldn't be used, at least not before they figure out another way to render things ( totally microstutter-free obviously )

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

What you guys fail to realize is that both nVIDIA & AMD don't mind microstuttering, and won't do sh1t about it either way.

Multi-GPU setups apart from benchmarking shouldn't be used, at least not before they figure out another way to render things ( totally microstutter-free obviously )

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Lol... No one is saying only Nv micro-stutters, you are imagining that...
Ati tried to do something about it with side port but power consumption was too much of an issue.
As no one 'currently' has a fix, neither party can/wants to publicly acknowledge it.

Hydra : D

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Originally Posted by Ejizz

Ati tried to do something about it with side port but power consumption was too much of an issue.

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Not really, you're not even close.
And of course power consumption wasn't an issue at all.

Here's some basic reading for you ATI's Eric Demers tech interview.

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Originally Posted by cegras

Hydra : D

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AFAIK it has its own problems ( oh and its scaling sucks :D )

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

Multi-GPU setups apart from benchmarking shouldn't be used, at least not before they figure out another way to render things ( totally microstutter-free obviously )

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I've only experienced that type of stutter shown in the video in two games with the GTX 280 in SLI. The first was MW2 single player and second Brother's in Arms Hell's Highway. In both cases it depends on the direction you're looking in.

With the GTX 480 the stutter was gone in MW2...didn't bother to try the other game. I don't know whether it's due to a new driver or just different hardware.

There might be little probs with new games sometimes or with driver updates here and there. Nvidia is pretty good though with updating their driver profiles and fixing problems.

I've gamed extensively with about 30 of the most popular titles from the past 3-4 years. Overall, SLI with the aforementioned cards work better than what I would get with a single card. Whatever the reason may be, the x58 platform made it much better than Nforce. SLI with the cards and hardware that I've used is definitely mature enough for mainstream gaming.

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Originally Posted by BenchZowner

What you guys fail to realize is that both nVIDIA & AMD don't mind microstuttering, and won't do sh1t about it either way.

Multi-GPU setups apart from benchmarking shouldn't be used, at least not before they figure out another way to render things ( totally microstutter-free obviously )

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Scan Line Interleave? ;)

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Watch this Video

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Whoa that was aweful for both setups! But I did think the Crossfire setup was worse with stuttering actually...hmmm.

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Originally Posted by Ejizz

Almost as many issues as people are having with the GTX 460's and stutter in SLI or otherwise... ;)

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:rolleyes:

Yes, 460 SLi can stutter, if it does try replacing or even removing the SLi bridge this has cured a few for me.

Just spoke to a rep about whether the Dual GF100 or GF104 cards would see the light of day. Got a political response which I read as yes but I can't say anything.

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Originally Posted by initialised

Just spoke to a rep about whether the Dual GF100 or GF104 cards would see the light of day. Got a political response which I read as yes but I can't say anything.

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amd releases 3 new chips in 3 months. nvidia has no new chips. what can nvidia do?

they have kept enough capability in reserve to release a whole new product line. they can upgrade every fermi chip and double up gf104. and by can I mean will.