GTX Corrosion

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11-20-2007, 02:37 AM
Jedda

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoffey

Good points,

Time will tell when Petra gets his lab report back.

andyc

Roger that!
Spin free zone.
11-20-2007, 03:33 AM
Sparky

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ys/popcorn.gif
11-20-2007, 03:53 AM
septim

i'll grab some of that e-popcorn...
11-20-2007, 05:49 AM
Xilikon

Also, keep in mind that even if Swiftech claimed to never heard of that many corroded GTX, it's very possible that owners who got corrosion on their GTX/Stealth just silently toss it in the garbage can not knowing there is a warranty and buy a different one. That might add up if we can find out how much of those guys did it.
11-20-2007, 11:01 AM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoffey

Perhaps,

But I think a bigger concern is that tap water (read H2O with heavy mineral content) is a much greater electrolyte. It has the ability to conduct current much easier which is the fondation of galvanic corrosion.

I'm not sure the small amount of minerals in any one WC fill is enough to erode a part that quickly, but it's more than enough to accelerate galvanic corrsion. Couple that with the fact the plating is under stress due to the artificial bowing of the GTX top and your asking for trouble. Take any crome plated tube that's flat and bend it into a U shape, watch the crome plating flake off for example.

And the whole MILSPEC debate is pretty funny to anyone that's been in the military under combat conditions especialy on a flight line (MOS 6123/13).

One things for sure, the potential for what happened in the pics (ugliest thing in WC history IMO) couldl have been avoided, but some companies never learn.

This isn't the first time Swiftech has been thru the AL corrosion issue. Last time it was anodized parts, and pretty much the same claim to begin with from what I can dig up.

andyc

That analysis was great, Andy. Makes perfect sense. MILSPEC doesn't always work under stress. I've seen M16 chambers jam up more than I care.
11-20-2007, 11:02 AM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

WOW! You really don't have any clue as who works where.

Jedda is an Aussie and is nothing more than a consumer.
AFAIK, IanY does NOT work for Swiftech. Again, another consumer.
Mekrel, Is also another consumer. He does NOT work for Thermochill, that's Marci.

ROFL... Swiftech would go bankrupt if they had to hire iany full time. :rofl:

Or Iany is in there to consolidate, and liquidate the Corporatation if he was working for them. I believe his job is something like that.
11-20-2007, 11:17 AM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoffey

Perhaps,

But I think a bigger concern is that tap water (read H2O with heavy mineral content) is a much greater electrolyte. It has the ability to conduct current much easier which is the fondation of galvanic corrosion.

I'm not sure the small amount of minerals in any one WC fill is enough to erode a part that quickly, but it's more than enough to accelerate galvanic corrsion. Couple that with the fact the plating is under stress due to the artificial bowing of the GTX top and your asking for trouble. Take any crome plated tube that's flat and bend it into a U shape, watch the crome plating flake off for example.

And the whole MILSPEC debate is pretty funny to anyone that's been in the military under combat conditions especialy on a flight line (MOS 6123/13).

One things for sure, the potential for what happened in the pics (ugliest thing in WC history IMO) couldl have been avoided, but some companies never learn.

This isn't the first time Swiftech has been thru the AL corrosion issue. Last time it was anodized parts, and pretty much the same claim to begin with from what I can dig up.

andyc

IIRC, the spec's on each plated layer was .0005 thick, this is not very thick at all. The easiest way for me to describe to everyone how thick that is, is by using the good old human hair analogy. The average human hair (top of head) is approx .003, if you were to slice it length wise into 6 equal strips, it would give you .0005. Both layers of plating would equal 2 of those strips. It wouldn't take very long for "heavy" water to destroy both layers of plating if it were moving close to 1GPM or higher. Heck, they even have CNC's that use water with "proper" abrasives to machine metal.
11-20-2007, 12:41 PM
rogueagent6

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

I've seen M16 chambers jam up more than I care.

Generally, when they begin to jam, it's time to clean... But adding a little CLP will work in a pinch.

The M16 might not be a Garand, but it's still a good weapon.

Sorry, back on topic.
11-20-2007, 02:09 PM
yonton228

LOL....Happen to see someones post over at [L]impOCP about this same exact topic.

Quote:

Quote:

That's what backfired here and why Gabe released a copper top recently.

The reason Swiftech released a copper top was because the idiots on XS screamed like banshees and he got tired of listening to their rants.

Anyways, I am glad that we have people willing to sacrifice time and $$ here such as Petra to bring some more "intelligent" insight on this matter. I cannot wait for the results.

**Edit** I wonder if it was posted by the same waterlogged that posted in this thread? I would hope not.

-yonton228/timmy
11-20-2007, 02:19 PM
eXa

Gabe:

U where pretty confident that the plated alu should not be a problem at all and where kinda almost offended of the people who where bashing the alu and wanted copper or delrin instead. U refused to do anything with it as it was fine like it its.
U have released a copper replacement top later, but i feel ur meaning about it is something like: "Its not really needed, its just to satisfy the enthusiast", or something....

I know, it aint many cases of corrosion, but there is SOME! And some could be none if it was delrin instead.
And the longer the loop is running the bigger tha chance of corrosion, right?

Now u say that some additives is necessesary with the top,(is it because of the alu maybe? ;) ) but do u really believe that 2 drops of PTnuke would have elimenated the corrosion? No!

Im not suprised to see this thread and im (still) not touching the gtx. (im getting a fuzion)
11-20-2007, 02:22 PM
yonton228

Quote:

Now u say that some additives is necessesary with the top,(is it because of the alu maybe? ) but do u really believe that 2 drops of PTnuke would have elimenated the corrosion? No!

Isn't PT-Nuke generally used for preventing things from growing? I believe you meant Pentosin or something along those lines?

-yonton228/timmy
11-20-2007, 02:24 PM
eXa

PT nuke is and anti algae additive.. But it still is an additive ;)

Edit: And in an all copper loop, thats all u need. Distilled water and a couple of drops of PT nuke...
11-20-2007, 03:39 PM
PRJ

2 Attachment(s)

Seems very simular to a problem i had in my prevuis setup...

Innovatek G-Flow and Fluid XP does'nt mix...
11-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by yonton228

LOL....Happen to see someones post over at [L]impOCP about this same exact topic.

Anyways, I am glad that we have people willing to sacrifice time and $$ here such as Petra to bring some more "intelligent" insight on this matter. I cannot wait for the results.

**Edit** I wonder if it was posted by the same waterlogged that posted in this thread? I would hope not.

-yonton228/timmy

:shock2: WOW! I have a doppelganger. I wonder who I ticked off enough to want to do that? :shrug: Thanks for the heads up.

I don't go out of my way to visit them ([H]) unless a link is posted here. They're simply not worth my time. I have only 2 accounts with this nick, one is here and the other is @ DD, but I've since retired from there as only DD products are to be mentioned when the usual "what parts for my loop" question comes up.
11-21-2007, 06:42 AM
RickCain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petra

the only reason that the possibility of corrosion exists in this product is due to choices that were made by Swiftech.

Don't forget the blame the USER that bought it and didn't bother to take any means to minimum the risk of corrosion (actually accelerated it)...... It took two things to happen:

1. Switech to make the product
2. A consumer buying it that doesn't want to read instructions

Funny everyone rushes to the aid of a user that clearly shouldn't have bought the product if he wasn't going to bother reading the instructions or better yet use any common sense. Accountablity is a thing lost in this world.
11-21-2007, 07:19 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

Accountablity is a thing lost in this world.

I'm the first to agree however, make it VERY clear that even though the top is milspec plated, that one MUST RUN ANTI CORROSIVE additives otherwise corrosion will occur, despite the treatment to the aluminum top. In all fairness Rick, your argument would be valid if the top was bare aluminum (which it should at this point be treated as). Shame that Swiftech said corrosion would never be an issue with this top. Wonder why they said that way back when, and now they are saying, 'Well, sure it will corrode with just distilled/tap water'.
11-21-2007, 07:36 AM
phelan1777

I have been running my loop with all copper, except for the mixed GTX for about 4 months now, I have PT NUKE and Pentosin G11 in the loop. I will have to take down my loop and check out my block, to see if there is any change, if there is I will post pics. My system runs 24/7 so the blocks get a decent amount of abuse.

As is, I have 4 blocks in my loop, GTX, 2XMCW60, MCW30, as well as the Copper PA120.3, so in theory, there SHOULD be corrosion, but if not, what does that say?

The only thing I want is some assurance that my block won't corrode and after talking to Petra, and it being discussed that I have a corrosion inhibitor in the loop that I should be okay. I can not begin to count how many times, I have seen others state to use more then just water, because of the potential for trouble.

If someone doesn't follow well stated advice that is the fools fault, we all come here to XS for the information and its clearly stated time and time again.

Gabe, Petra, and Niksub i would wager to say have a pretty good idea of what they are talking about as many of us have waged bets with our money in buying from/through/because of them and others. If this were a bubble and it wereto collapse because of a simple oversight, no one is to blame as its all our faults, so we are all to blame.

All this finger pointing and bickering is childish we are not in the school yard arguing over if someone was out playing kickball.
11-21-2007, 12:22 PM
[XC] riptide

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberDruid

ZOMG didn't you read how many times Waterlogged has had to say that plating and anodizing are not the same!!!

Dammit Man!

:rofl:

This thread is Legendary. :up:

Face it the Copper Top is incredibly good looking. Nothing wrong with the GTX design..just needs the copper top and it's a work of art.

Druid.... when I said Anodize it was a suggestive alternative to Plating. AS a manu. process. If it can be done is the question?
11-21-2007, 12:31 PM
[XC] riptide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xilikon

Also, keep in mind that even if Swiftech claimed to never heard of that many corroded GTX, it's very possible that owners who got corrosion on their GTX/Stealth just silently toss it in the garbage can not knowing there is a warranty and buy a different one. That might add up if we can find out how much of those guys did it.

Thats what I did with mine. Bin. Was wondering why my pump was not pushing much water aorund and why the temps were getting higher and higher. One of the barbs was blocked where the corrosion built up at the plate.
11-21-2007, 02:59 PM
Borgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickCain

Don't forget the blame the USER that bought it and didn't bother to take any means to minimum the risk of corrosion (actually accelerated it)...... It took two things to happen:

I'm still waiting for proof that he indeed did not take 'any means to minimise the risk of corrosion'

Where does it say he used tap water/ no additive?
11-21-2007, 06:10 PM
Borgod

Please explain?
11-21-2007, 06:47 PM
RickCain

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

I'm the first to agree however, make it VERY clear that even though the top is milspec plated, that one MUST RUN ANTI CORROSIVE additives otherwise corrosion will occur, despite the treatment to the aluminum top. In all fairness Rick, your argument would be valid if the top was bare aluminum (which it should at this point be treated as). Shame that Swiftech said corrosion would never be an issue with this top. Wonder why they said that way back when, and now they are saying, 'Well, sure it will corrode with just distilled/tap water'.

Yeah, I remember some of the members from this forum preaching on [H] that it was "milspec" material, blah blah blah.

Now for a company to make a BOLD statement that corrosion would never be an issue is plain dumb. I did not see that comment.

I will however stand by my comment that I would NEVER use a product that bolts aluminum directly to copper.
11-21-2007, 07:05 PM
septim

AMEN to that Phelan...

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