Oh ups. I am very sorry.
just a little bit weird now.
The top in a different material (no alu) would be really the best solution for all the users with the Apogee gtx. This is what I am up to.
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Oh ups. I am very sorry.
just a little bit weird now.
The top in a different material (no alu) would be really the best solution for all the users with the Apogee gtx. This is what I am up to.
Hi peebee,
Gabe wrote something about other materials on the 5th site. ;)
Seen that already. Just wanted to clarify my opinion. ;)
It's funny but when Swiftech released the MCW6000 series, an all copper waterblock, people didn't give it too much importance, nowadays this picture changed.
Swiftech can't have it both ways, with the MCW6000 they advertised that the copper factor constituted a MAJOR value, and some years after simply want users to forget it and advertise alunimum practically as good as copper, no issues involved, etc.
The MAJOR diference is that back then (MCW 6000 era) another person was in charge of the technical issues involved with waterblocks and QC.
As much as i'm willing to conceed that the Swiftech CEO has valid concerns against the indiscriminate manufacturing of 3rd party parts for his waterblocks which replicate his own "ideas", i still think it's obstinate to focus only on the aesthetic aspect of this top, especially when it doesn't play any part on the performance factor.
Swiftech became known for producing a robust product and matching performance results.
In my opinion a top in brass or copper same as Swiftech uses with the MCW6500-T, is all that's needed, without any fancy names, engravings or allegories to planes or cars.
I agree 100% with you Fiber9.
Aye, seems a bit fishy...Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
gabe, ive always LOVED swiftech products and i would have no problem paying an extra 30 bucks for a copper top. you have another copper customer here.
got a question here though, why not just make the copper top for the GTX and nickel plate the outside and somehow make the same color as the stealth? It would still be matching and you have a copper top for the GTX.
you can make the stealth gpu cooling part all copper (colored to fit the stealth color scheme) and the ram cooling part aluminum. That way there is no metal mixing and everyone happy.
as for pice, i would lay down an extra 20-30 bucks in a heartbeat and im sure most people here would.
Depending upon the type of brass it could perform pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Yes, there's Cheneyesque overtones to Gabe's stance on this top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiber9
Not really, if your running a DDC-2, you'll end up burning that drive out by mixing pumps. :\Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Plus, im not too convinced on it yet. I dont trust the motor sitting on top due to vibration gabe. I have the DDC-1, DDC-2. They vibrate. You have no form of shock absorber for it.
Gabe, ive been begging you guys to make one. A silver block that could be mass produced. Ive even beg'd cathar for a G7 with no response. A silverblock id be willing to pay 200 for.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
To be honest, i have an RD-30, its a 200 dollar pump. A 100-200 Dollar super bling waterblock would be my liking more then a block with a built on DDC-1 pump. :\
Dream on... They will never ever going to produce a silver product...Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Make it right first time round with proper parts and material and your sorted Gabe!Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Fact is this is more of a mod and custom just than also making it work as it's ment too. 50/50 really but in truth it's 100% replacment top to have a nice working block as oer WC specs go these days which you should of done day one!
I'd be well up for getting a top on one. It's whats putting me off on ordering one!
Brass in raw will be okay
Delrin be ace
Acrilic be cool too see the water flowing over all them pins
Copper yeah be cool but costly and lots of it wasted
I will speak to a guy at work, we got a machine that will track round the item and produce the drawing in what ever you want CAD, CAM, SolidWorks, Sketch etc etc with the exact measurments!
Think it takes about 8 hours to do a really decent carbon copy drawing.
Aerospace machine at work rock!
Get the impression Gabe'll already have the drawings being the designer...
@ Gabe,
sorry if you felt ripped off by my top. I never sold a single one nor did I offer it for sale.
I have great respect for your design and work and never intended to challenge your intellectual property.
There certainly was no pun intended in any of my posts, even though I must admit that I was shocked thinking of being sued for something I only made for myself and so I believe I have not been as polite as I ought to have been, especially since I certainly crafted my top looking a lot like your design. It doesn't exactly copy your design 100 percent, but I still understand that you had hard feelings about it.
As said before the top was never intended for sale, so I really hadn't thought that it would matter.
As of now I'll remove all images of the top from my page.
If there is anything else I could do to amend the situation, please feel free to tell me.
I'm sorry if I caused any inconvenience.
Best regards,
André
Andreoid don't be sorry at all... you did NOTHING WRONG. Someone please show me where it is illegal to make your own COPPER top for a water block that's top is only available in ALUMINUM. I made my delrin reservoirs that very much mimic the aqua computer aquatube - I sold a bunch and haven't been sued.
Even if you did make them to sell, I don't think there is a thing Swiftech can do about it. Especially if you are not in the US.
Actually, you have probably forced Swiftech into making different material tops - This is better than them trying to force feed us that aluminum is just fine and that we just need to 'trust' the plating process. Plating aluminum to me is like relying on a condom 'whilst living it up' with someone with an STD.
WORD FOR WORD OF EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID AND ONLY ONE EXTRA THING, amazing craftsmandship on your topQuote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Pete
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Andreoid you just did this for you (better top)and that's what they were supposed to do in the 1st place...built a better block with better material for the enthusiast , no need to take the pictures down or anything...
Ugh..I am in the process of a build a new setup..got a GTX..now i hear GAbe is going to do a limited edition new GTX block with a copper top
damn it..second time in very short order Swiftech is making a redesign...I want a copper top :mad:
I have money to preorder if needed
BTW if you used the AL top with a bowed base..would you be able to swap out the AL for the copper top and still use the same bowed base???
copper top is great... so is brass alternative...
but i kinda still want the acrylic top more...
I agree, Andreoid has nothing to worry about. Hes done nothing wrong morally or legally. In many ways he is complimenting the original visual aesthetics.
It always makes me sad when something is censored on the internet even if just with disgruntled words than any demands or real pressure. Id suggest bringing back the pictures so that people can see what the fuss was about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
What I get out of this is that the stealth and gtx tops are both cut from the same peice of material, correct?
Tho some people would question as to why not have seperate programs for each part, something like cutting 6 Stealths and 10-12 GTX tops out of the same sheet of aluminum saves alot of time VS having to setup the CNC, adjust the offsets and what not, then tear it down and do the same thing for another part. I go thru the same thing at work since I am a CNC machinist, tho I work more with various plastics, occasionally steel/aluminum/wood.
Ive yet to see a single report of a GTX corroding, the only flaw I really see with it is the black dye on the inside of the block. Which brings me to my next question.
Gabe, have you considered removing the dye from the inside of the GTX top by chance? Seeing as it tends to bleed into the loop and whatnot.
of course not. a set means matching designs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmer411
Dude That top looks absolutely awesome and so does the copper one , I am taking metal shop next year so I will try to make one of them on my own but I was wondering if any one had the cad file for the top of the block ?
The credit goes to andreoid and finnzwerg, because they startet all this discussion about other material choices for tops. Users which want to buy swiftech blocks but don't want to have the risk of corrosion shopuld be very thankful. Their apogee gtx tops serve the community!
the apogee gtx is a very nice cooler and i don't want to down-worth swiftechs efforts. But alu is clearly not the best choice for a top, but a cost effective solution.
by many ways the apogee is a very cost effective block. i do have an own cnc machine and i did a few blocks, so from my experience i can guess that the apogees manufacturespends must be only a fraction of that of other commercial blocks like the aquaxtreme series, zern or alphacool blocks.
it does not use a lot of material, it is easy to make because the diameter of the disk miller (or whatever it reads in english) could theoretically be of unlimited size. this makes high feed-rates and fast milling speeds possible.
due to the injection moulding top of the Apogee Vanilla and GT, these blocks were far from the costs of a similar priced nexxos for example, which is completely milled and vastly more complex. As these firms also manufacture in their countrys which are all highwagecountries, the costs of the employees do not make a big difference.
The alu topped GTX is somewhat more complex to make than a vanilla or GT, but especially at its high selling prices, the margins swiftech makes of these must be really high. If they aren't, tell me. Swiftech must be doing some things wrong when the margins aren't a lot higher than that of other companies, cause their simple designs give them a huge manufacturing advantage. using custom aluminium profile for the block with its fins would be make it even cheaper. it is not that costly to let manufacture own aluminium profiles, in fact even small aircooling manufacturers do that. surface finish should be alittle better than what i see with current gtx blocks. its a common way to reduce cost and i expect swiftech that they try to do this in short time.
I conclude swiftech feels very well because of these high margins and the'll do everything to keep them this high.
These things lead me to the following conclusion:
- If a metal top other than alu will be made, it will be casted. casting should be cheaper and easier than milling.
- a pure copper block will not be made, because of the poor casting characteristics of unalloyed or low alloyed copper
- bronze or brass are vastly better for casting. bronze is somewhat pricey, because its mostly 70-80% copper and the even more pricey Tin
- The top will be brass when material price is an issue (that means high margins, high numers and high automatisation)
- The top will be bronze when the price of the material is less of an issue and casting and polishind efforts are more important. bronze has ideal characteristics for that, even better than brass. Automatisation could be lower and so could be the margin and the numbers which will be made.
- A copper block would be doable, but to keep the great margins they make on these blocks, it would be much more expensive, maybe more than the average user is willing to spend for it. selling it cheaper would lead to less money earned. so from a financial point of view this is a no do
- a plexitopped block does interfere with swiftechs corporate image and what has been said so often over the concurrence like dangerden. t is really unlikely, but of course from a mechanical point of view it is doable.
- a plexitopped block would be injection moulded again, so it comes fully tempered and with less risk to crack and much better surface finish on the sides than comparable DD products.
in my opinion, swiftech could risk the copper block and also the plexitopped block. the normal GTX should drop in price. it is a real cashcow and they know it. a copper block is easily doable at 80$ whith margins staying in the green zone and normal gtx and plexitopped could fall to 50$ while keeping a reasonable margin. plexitopped blocks would be the new cashcow then, because they are nearly as cheap to make as the delrintopped injection moulded gt series.
That is what swiftech COULD do.
Swiftech won't do it because there is no necessity and maybe i forgot something in my conclusions because i have no knowledge of inside Swiftech. Keep in mind that its all my guessing.
But maybe some (asian? chinese?) company starts making some differently shaped apogee plexitops if swiftech doesn't deliver it. and it can be the same with copper tops.
Maybe also d-tek reacts on the story here with unveiling full copper and plexitopped versions.
If one of that is the case, i am sure that swiftech will do reduce their magins and do something to keep a good level of competition whith these firms.
Until then, Users have to pay the hefty price for the GTX and expected overpriced bronze or brass tops. Other company do have blocks which are cheaper and have very low margins for them, so the user gets more for his money, but compared to the performance of the gtx, swiftech is still good in the race. if you compare prices and performance and flowrate there may be better blocks for your cpu than the gtx, depending on your hardware but it will definitely be in the very highs. but if you compare margins the people make on the coolers the gtx will probably be best LOL
My inbox was full, sorry for making a wrong complain..:hitself: