The LCD Buyers Guide

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Originally Posted by marius7

What do you think guys about the new model from Samsung 971P ?

"Priced at just $379.99, the 19-inch Samsung SyncMaster 971P offers 1280 x 1024 resolution, 1500:1 contrast ratio, 6ms response time, and a 178-degree viewing angle. It will come in black or white colors and features a nifty S-shaped stand"

What would you buy between Viewsonic VP930 and this one ?

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I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the Samsung 931C/931BF?

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Viewable Area 19"
Pixel Pitch 0.294
Brightness 250 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio (Typ) 2000:1
Viewing Angle (H/V) 160° / 160° (CR>5)
Response Time 2ms (GTG)

Maximum Resolution 1280 x 1024
Colour Supported 16.2 Mil

Special Features

Wide Colour Gamut (CCFL 97%), MagicBright3, PrintViewer, MagicTune with Asset Management, Safe Mode (Down Scaling in UXGA)

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linky

I've put a word in to add my request to the order queue, since the sales rep I talked to will get there first shipment of them by 9.25.2006. I asked about the 931BF, since BestBuy sold out of those, and there doesn't seem to be a local vendor.

About $280, at least for me, but that seems to be the going price in PriceGrabber.

amazing guide guys, keep it up, and thanks.

i have had a viewsonic vx922 for a couple of months now and was just wondering is there any calibration software i can get to adjust the screen cos i have had two other lcd montiors before this one and both have come with diffrent screen adjustments like for movie or text alreday in the menu but this only has contrast and brightness

thanks

tag

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Originally Posted by Mikael4a

Is there enough info out there to update the guide with the Viewsonic 930 and Samsung 970P?

Because I have to decide witch one to buy. So does anyone have any opinions about these two?

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I am in doubt between Viewsonic 930B and Samsung 971p...
Anyone??

hows the new asus screens? like Asus MW221U...

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Originally Posted by eXa

hows the new asus screens? like Asus MW221U...

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same question here? are there any reviews of mw221u?

Dell E207WFP seems too good for the pricing.

- 1680x1050 (20.1")
- D-Sub / DVI-D (with HDCP)
- 5ms response time
- brightness 300 cd/m
- contrast 800:1
- $289 :nuts:

What's the catch?

edit:
Ahh, here's the catch - its a TN panel. :\

I am very interested in the ASUS MW22IU 22" but cannot find it here in the US of A.
Any links??

TY

Creeper

Anyone heard anything about this one from BenQ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824014124

Is it the only 24" Widescreen with HDMI so far? The Samsung 244t looks amazing but it does not have HDMI. They both have Component.

244t:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001222

But what about the screen? What differences do the panels on the 244T and the FP241W have? Both have great reviews.

Supposedly the benq 24" is the first in the world for a 24" lcd with hdmi and hdcp and all of that other stuff. There are actually supposed to be two models one named as is and the other with a Z at the end, the z stands for a new technology they are adding in which makes all your pixels turn black for a frame. Think of watching a movie and you see a car wreck scene. between the first frame of car explosion and second frame of car explosion there will be a frame of pure black, it is supposed to go by so fast and unnoticeable and this will stop all ghosting effects.

http://www.benq.com/products/LCD/?product=839

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Originally Posted by GameTraveler

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the Samsung 931C/931BF?

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Not too sure about the 931BF, but I can only see it as an improvement on the 930BF which I own and love. I also own a pair of Samsung 204B's which are just amazing for the price I got em ( $289 A.R from best buy).

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200..._FP241W/1.html

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Originally Posted by Teratism

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200..._FP241W/1.html

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Excellent review. I would choose this over the famous Samsung 244T I think.

Makes me want to go buy one now, but is there anything coming soon that I should wait for?

The only thing that I really don't like is the adjustability though. The Dell can come down almost all the way to the desk, whereas this one can only come down to about 3" higher than that. On my desk that is a problem but it may still work. It would still put it lower than my CRT, which is what I want.

A couple 30 inchers are out and about. The coming technologies of OLED and SED should be around by mid next year. SED is supposed to be able to go up to 100,000:1 contrasts and be only a few miliseconds. Basically think better than plasma and crt looks, as thin as lcds, long lasting. Etc.

Why would you need 100,000:1 contrast :confused:

For a god like picture. Right now most LCDs get around 700:1 contrast, some into the few thousands and I think the best plasma tv on the market is around 10,000:1. Just imagine how potent and clear your picture will be at 100,000:1 with a 2 millisecond rate. If you didn't know it means there are 100,000 or 99,999 steps between white and black. Color accuracy.

Would this be a good choice for my setup?

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...9&sku=320-4335

My system: dual core opty @ 2640 x1900xt crossfire

This would be mostly for gaming on this pc.
My current moniter is a 22" crt with 20.1 viewable.
I play most games at 1600x1200 all candy on.
I'm having trouble picking the right one as this will be my first wide screen.I dont want to make a sideways or backwards move.Is now the time to buy?
$800.00 is about the max.
Thanks for the help.

Benq 24" with the most features
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824014124
Samsung 24"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001222
And your dell monitor.

All 3 should suit your needs just fine. As mentioned Benq has the most features and the rest are very good. You could also wait for the 24" benq with the Z technology.

The thing that really turns me off of the BenQ is a review I read stating the screen sits way too high. They said the bottom of the screen sits 6" above the desk at its lowest position.The way my desk is my monitor sits on a perch that is already above eye level so I need one that will come down as low as possible. The Dell can come almost all the way down which is great but you can do better in a screen (or so i've read).

Looks like i'll be waiting longer to get a monitor...still not seeing what I want. Unless I cheap out and get a 22" for $300-400. The thing about going that route is you get what you pay for. I'm sure they are still really nice monitors but they put slightly lower grade screens and less inputs and options on them. They save all the best stuff for the 24" and higher screens.

You can get the 22" Samsung 225BW for $380 (which has backlight bleeding) and the 22" BenQ FP222W (that is not height adjustable) for a mere $340. There is also the Sceptre x22wg-Gamer which seems to be the only 22" LCD with HDMI. Stand is flimsy and non-adjustable though. Viewsonic VG2230wm 22" is $398 and looks to have good adjustability but a built-in speaker which I don't really care for. None of these monitors have higher than 1600x1050 resolution though, you have to pay to play to get a 1920 res and the price of admission for that is 24". These 22" monitors also seem to use TN panels.

The thing I need to know though, will I be kicking myself for not getting a monitor with an HDMI port?

To fix your problem with how it sits you can always add an ergotron flex arm to sit it high, low, closer or farther back whenever you want.
The review I think you are mentioning is the bit-tech one which says 3 inches above the desk and not 6.

You will only kick yourself over having or not having certain features if you ever plan on using them, or more importantly how soon would you figure on using them. If you will use it right away then you will want the feature, if you don't expect to need or use it for years, then don't care about it for a while.

The next generation of video cards will have HDMI outputs. I would use it pretty soon.

I would use this monitor for a very long time. I'm going on 4 years now with this 19" Sony Trinitron and i'm really tired of it and its time to move on, that's why im rambling so much about this stuff. Hopefully someone can take something useful from it, until I find what I want.

I still rate the BenQ 24" as #1 from my research, if there is a workaround for bringing the screen down lower. It's all about how much you are willing to pay.

http://www.ergotron.com/ConsumerProd...1/Default.aspx
Not the greatest work around but it will do the job of being wherever you want it. The Z version of the monitor doesn't look to be in stores yet so you would be stuck with the normal version.

you need good contrast for good blacks thats all, 500cd/m2 and 100000:1 contrast will give you almost absolut black but i would take over oled or sed with bright side 4000 cd/m2 HDR 48bit color and infinite contrast ratio :D

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Originally Posted by Teratism

http://www.ergotron.com/ConsumerProd...1/Default.aspx
Not the greatest work around but it will do the job of being wherever you want it. The Z version of the monitor doesn't look to be in stores yet so you would be stuck with the normal version.

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Ha, that thing is pretty neat. But for $169, no thanks.

The site has a bunch of others, I think there was a desk mount for just up and down around 40$ You can also look up an LCD monitor desk stand or wall mount on google to find what you are looking for at a cheaper price. You can also contact benq and ask if there is any way to get a stand with yours that goes lower.

Is there any information on whether this new BenQ monitor you speak of will be more expensive than the current ones, and how much?

None so far on price for it, I would hazard a guess at $100 more.

is this ok.. :D

http://www4.shopping.com/xPF-IBM-T11...www.google.com

hope anyone have try to use this.. :D

bump what's the best all around 17" lcd lol

SCEPTRE x22wg-Gamer Black 22" Info/Reviews:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824112005

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...09891831/inc/1

Another:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....3&page=1&pp=20

Benq 24" review. Note the 1:1 pixel mapping issue. :rolleyes:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/benq_fp241w.htm

I have a Sceptre 22" on the way. I decided to go with it because it seems like the best 22" screen and it will save me quite a few bucks. I'll upgrade next year most likely with a BenQ 24" when they come down in price but this should do great until then. I couldn't get myself to spend that kind of money right now.

I went with the dell 2407fp.I had a 20% off coupon so I got it for 639.00
I love it...No complaints.Playing BF2 and CFS3 on widescreen is great.

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Originally Posted by Soulburner

I have a Sceptre 22" on the way. I decided to go with it because it seems like the best 22" screen and it will save me quite a few bucks. I'll upgrade next year most likely with a BenQ 24" when they come down in price but this should do great until then. I couldn't get myself to spend that kind of money right now.

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I've had my 22" Sceptre monitor for six weeks now and I love it. I especially love the HDMI connection with my new PS3 and upsampling DVD player set at 1080i. The Sceptre lets you have 3 graphic inputs (VGA, DVI, HDMI) at the same time, allowing you to switch between them just by clicking the "source" button. BTW: Both its DVI and HDMI plugs are HD capable.

The stand that comes with it is flimsy, but Staples has a great Neo-Flex stand that DOES work well with this monitor - and right now it's on close-out for just $30! It's even better than the Samsung 225BW's stand IMO. (See my HardForum post #57 http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....3&page=3&pp=20 for pictures and more info.)

Awesome. Mine will be here on Monday but the stand won't so i'll have to live without it for a bit.

great guide :cool:

My Sceptre 22" is here, how do I calibrate this thing for the best color and contrast?

EDIT: Downloading MagicTune from Samsung now. I'll see if this works for my monitor. If not I found some test images to use. Thing is, I don't know how to tell whats "best" because they are only test images with no instructions.

The "real way" is to actually buy a color calibration tool. If you aren't so picky as to need anything you print to line up perfectly to what you see then
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/m...alibration.htm
should be handy.

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Originally Posted by Soulburner

My Sceptre 22" is here, how do I calibrate this thing for the best color and contrast?

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Whatever graphics card you have, download the latest driver for it and run it. When I did that my NVidia card recognized the Sceptre x22wg as "plug-n-play" immediately, then automatically optimized my settings. (See dialog box photo: http://i12.tinypic.com/2u8xjsg.jpg)
:cool: I was very pleased with those settings. The only thing I changed after that was the lamp brightness. Doing so eliminated some of the backlight bleed I was seeing. What kind of card do you have?

After almost 5 years of LCDs, I'm going back to CRT... The ghosting and no blacks got to me!!

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Originally Posted by KoHaN69

After almost 5 years of LCDs, I'm going back to CRT... The ghosting and no blacks got to me!!

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Mine makes a pretty good black, its the colors that are off but I think it can be fixed.

Looks like MagicTune detects your monitor and it won't let me use it without a Samsung screen :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Coastal_Eddy

Whatever graphics card you have, download the latest driver for it and run it. When I did that my NVidia card recognized the Sceptre x22wg as "plug-n-play" immediately, then automatically optimized my settings. (See dialog box photo: http://i12.tinypic.com/2u8xjsg.jpg)
:cool: I was very pleased with those settings. The only thing I changed after that was the lamp brightness. Doing so eliminated some of the backlight bleed I was seeing. What kind of card do you have?

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I had to download a sceptre.inf for it to recognize my monitor. I will get the latest Catalyst though.

Coming from a CRT, input lag is really bothering me. Trying to find some kind of fix.

Using RefreshForce like I normally do, I can't change the refresh rate of the monitor. It seems to be locked @ 60Hz. Any pointers?

Don't have a faster mouse to try either. Using Logitech MX1000 Cordless Laser which was always spot-on with the CRT.

Using a digital cable connection most likely limited your refresh to 60hz.

Input lag can be produced by a slow computer, a bad mouse, a slow graphics card, or your monitor just accepts it at a slower rate. I don't think there is anything you can do to get rid of the input lag.

I have a 2405fpw and i want a crt :(

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Originally Posted by Teratism

Using a digital cable connection most likely limited your refresh to 60hz.

Input lag can be produced by a slow computer, a bad mouse, a slow graphics card.

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I don't have any of those things. I read a good article on it that showed it really depends on the monitor. Some are faster, some are slower. Of note was the Samsung 244T being noticeably slower than the Dell 2405.

And increasing the refresh rate can help bring it down to a manageable level. I don't want to use the VGA input though.

Most people say the samsung 244t is slower others say it is fine and it is just their computers being slow. The VGA input gives you I think up to an 85hz refresh rate but the digital will limit you to 60hz. LCDs aren't really made for serious refreshing.

Alright I think I have this thing figured out so i'll post an initial review.

SCEPTRE x22wg-Gamer Black 22" 5ms Black to Black DVI Widescreen HDMI LCD Monitor

Full specs and user reviews can be found here.

Out of the box I found I had to connect both the DVI and VGA to the monitor or the system wouldn't boot. Strange. I tried just the DVI at first and I got nothing (case fans at max, did not come down to normal speed which tells me the BIOS hadn't loaded and it was hanging).

Once I got into Windows, the first thing that came to mind was, wow this is big. Coming from a 19" Sony Trinitron CRT at 1152x864 to this at 1680x1050 is a night and day difference. There is so much space here I don't know what to do with it all.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...s/Sceptre1.jpg

Default settings needed tweaking. Color, black levels, lamp, all needed adjustment to get a good picture. I chose the "Medium" color setting. There were High, Medium and Low. I assumed Medium was 6500K and it gave the best color though it doesn't display the choices in degrees kelvin. You can also select "User" and adjust R/G/B manually but I could not get them spot on. Maybe a pro could.

Buttons to access the menus are at the back of the monitor. Look at the Newegg link for pics. It is very awkward at first and takes a while to get use to it. You will find yourself hitting the wrong buttons at times. The good thing is, once you are set up you shouldn't have to mess around with the menu again, and it makes for a nice looking monitor keeping the buttons off the front.

I found these images off of various forums in my search for calibration tips, and I think others will find them useful as well:

1 http://www.atoyu.com/image/master_test.jpg
2 http://www.atoyu.com/image/testimage.jpg
3 http://www.fotomag.net/index_pics/Mo...on%20chart.jpg

Loading up Doom 3 for the first game test was a thrill. After editing the .cfg file to fix the resolution to 1680x1050 and the aspect ratio (thanks to the WSGF) I was able to play this game well on my X800XL. I had expected a major framerate drop but it handles it ok. It isn't as silky smooth as it was before on the CRT but the card is being pushed a little harder now with the higher resolution so thats to be expected. I would have to guess that its running between 25-50fps depending on the action. Here are a few pics for your enjoyment:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...s/Sceptre2.jpg

Backlight bleeding is slightly noticeable in the pictures, which exaggerate it a bit. A lot of people will gripe about this. I will stress the fact that you won't see it while you are using the monitor unless you get up there and look for it. If adjusted properly it should not really come into play. 90% of scenes in gaming and windows use will not show it at all.

There is no ghosting to be seen, though this is the only game I have tried. I haven't had a lot of time to sit down and really put it to the test yet but this seems to be a really fast screen. All colors and contrast are very good, and the game looks great. Blacks are also very good, for an LCD.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...s/Sceptre3.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...s/Sceptre4.jpg

These aren't the best screens, as you can imagine its extremely hard to take pics of the action and play at the same time, with only 2 hands. It looks much better in person and the black parts of the scenes are actually much darker. There is not much difference coming from my CRT in that respect.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...s/Sceptre5.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...s/Sceptre6.jpg

Desktop use is wonderful. There is absolutely no "screen door effect". The native resolution does a good job of keeping everything sharp and text is extremely crisp with the DVI. I do not use ClearType.

One thing to note, this is a TN panel so viewing angles are slightly picky. The monitor will give the best picture angled slightly downward. Still even at the optimal angle the top of the screen will be slightly darker than the bottom. Most noticeable in Windows, less in games. The stand included with this monitor can only be angled backwards slightly, and straight up. Right now it is rigged with a book to get the best viewing angle (as seen in the pictures above). I am going to pick up a NeoFlex stand tomorrow to replace it.

Can't comment on the speakers. Never hooked them up.

Another issue is the dreaded input lag. Here are my experiences with this:

-Most noticeable in Windows. Mouse will be slightly behind your hand movements.
-In gaming it barely comes into play. You can tell it is there but it is not a huge factor. It didn't stop me from kicking some alien butt.
-If you turn off VSync it almost goes away completely. Mouse aiming becomes notably snappier in FPS games, but you will get some tearing in the image. Decide which one you would rather have. Personally I cannot stand tearing so Vsync stays on. I imagine if you were competition gaming you would want it off for speed's sake, but it really bugs my eyes after only a minute or so of use.

The monitor is only 11.5lbs. Sure beats lugging that 40lb CRT across the room.

Have not watched any video or DVD yet but I expect it to look good.

Overall for the money I would highly recommend this monitor to a gamer looking to get into the Widescreen scene. Bang for the buck is very high. I did a lot of research and it seems this is the best 22" for the money. I really needed a replacement for my dying 19" Sony CRT. Another plus is it also has an HDMI input and reports are PS3 gaming on this thing is awesome at 1080.

I will likely step up next year to a 24". I had my eye on the BenQ but I couldn't justify the price. They should be a lot cheaper after this one holds me over for a bit.

That's all for now :cool:

nice review

I might try it out
Costco has it :D

Beautiful first picture, looks to be a very nice 22", sucks a bit on needing to tilt and the tearing you get without vsynch (to be expected with lcd's and video cards that can give frames beyond lcd refresh rate), plus the input lag. All in all not very many bads and nothing too over the norm with them.

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Originally Posted by Soulburner

Alright I think I have this thing figured out so i'll post an initial review. SCEPTRE x22wg-Gamer Black 22" 5ms Black to Black DVI Widescreen HDMI LCD Monitor Overall for the money I would highly recommend this monitor to a gamer looking to get into the Widescreen scene. Bang for the buck is very high. I did a lot of research and it seems this is the best 22" for the money. I really needed a replacement for my dying 19" Sony CRT. Another plus is it also has an HDMI input and reports are PS3 gaming on this thing is awesome at 1080. That's all for now :cool:

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Great initial review and superb screen shots! Thank you!

Nice review SB ....

:clap:

Since I have both VGA and DVI attached I tried switching between them (on the fly, via the source button) to compare quality. VGA has a slight fuzz effect and DVI looks more "digital" but a lot clearer. Text is razor sharp in DVI.

Still getting used to the picture, coming from my CRT @ 85hz in VGA I was really used to a super smooth picture in Doom 3 and other games. Running D3 at only 1024x768 with 2xAA it produced no jagged edges whatsoever and a very smooth game that also ran very fast and mouse movement was instant. Now with this monitor even at @ 1680x1050 and 2xAA I have some slight jagginess but its very small. The game runs a little slower, at the point where it starts to bug your eyes when its still fast but just not quite "liquid" and your eyes pick it up in a bad way. Also the mouse lags slightly, you can get used to it but I would rather not. My hypothesis on what was happening is the fuzzy text I always got in windows was carrying over to games as well and it was producing a sort of "smoothing" effect that I never noticed. Now that I am on the LCD on a digital connection, I am seeing all the tiny minute details that I wasn't seeing before. I need more AA to compensate. I am contemplating picking up an x1950xt 256mb off of Newegg to beef up the graphics a bit.

Also considering trying a faster mouse but not sure yet. Tested in-game, the VGA tends to allow slightly faster mouse movement than DVI. I can assume this would only be helped further by a higher refresh rate, which I haven't tried yet.

WOOHOO! I hear you about the details. Now I can do horrible at the game because I am staring at the details lol. Like oh I didn't know that was under that grate or you know those nose hairs you couldn't see before on that character...ew. All the things I missed using the monitor which was "smooth" and probably faster as far as headshots go but, ohh the crisp clean detail. Idk if I can get higher than 60-75 I would have to lower from 1680 to 1280. I haven't wanted to hook up my monitor as extended/clone because this is primary and it makes the crt look fuzzy. I just haven't wished to turn it off. It is terribly addicting seeing text so clear. I feel it has turned me daft to even considering ways to make windows purdy rather than speedy.:rolleyes:

Question: Did you see where your driver installed??
My x1900xtx sees the monitor fine I just didn't find the driver to integrate in an silpstream cd, despite extracting & installing it.

What mouse are you using? Which one may you try?Am curious of the new logitech ergo wise. Havent tried switching back to vga from dvi with the mouse. Then I wondered of pci e freq & usb speed boost lol the possibilities.

I may just have to take mine back to get this 22 Gamer one. Just wish it said 4-2ms(if that matters). It wasn't available at the costco when I ordered. The idea of the extra usbs, HDMI, nice buttons *trust me the Sceptre 20.1" W DVI LCD ones are a bit clunky in front but for $130 less I guess I could keep it & wait till these improve...hmm.

DVI/VGA Dimensions: 18.75" W x 15.38" H x 7.1" D 1000:1
20.1" 16:10 wide WSXGA TFT LCD, HD Ready
433.44 mm x 270.90 mm
6.2M colors
High WSXGA+ 1680x1050/60Hz,
1280x720/60Hz, 1024x768/60Hz
Analog: 24-82 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
Digital: 31-80 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
160º (horizontal)
160º (vertical)
199.00
HD Ready
AV cable x20 comp..Convert DVI to component cable (video). Enable viewers to watch in HDTV mode.
Factory presetting mode: 41

DVI/VGA/HDMI Dimensions: W 21.9" x H 19.0" x D 4.5" 1200:1
22" 16:10 wide WSXGA+ TFT LCD
473.76 mm x 296.1 mm
16.7M colors
WSXGA+ 1680x1050/60Hz,
1280x720/60Hz, 1024x768/75Hz
Analog: 24-82 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
Digital: 31-80 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
170º (horizontal)
160º (vertical)
329.99
DVI, VGA, HDMI(HDCP, 2nd DVI)
Support HD1080i/1080p
Factory presetting mode: 40

Gray-To-Gray (GTG)

Anyways...Nice screens and great review...just in time! Keep us updated.Thank you.:woot:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...take-over.html
unusual review haven't had time to read completely-doesn't have sceptre but may be useful.

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Originally Posted by »X$«êdên

WOOHOO! I hear you about the details. Now I can do horrible at the game because I am staring at the details lol. Like oh I didn't know that was under that grate or you know those nose hairs you couldn't see before on that character...ew. All the things I missed using the monitor which was "smooth" and probably faster as far as headshots go but, ohh the crisp clean detail. Idk if I can get higher than 60-75 I would have to lower from 1680 to 1280. I haven't wanted to hook up my monitor as extended/clone because this is primary and it makes the crt look fuzzy. I just haven't wished to turn it off. It is terribly addicting seeing text so clear. I feel it has turned me daft to even considering ways to make windows purdy rather than speedy.:rolleyes:

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I hear you. I will never switch back. I am also positive that CRT has contributed to my eyesight going downhill over the years. With the fuzzy picture and the way CRT's constantly refresh, these LCDs have to be a lot easier on the eyes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by »X$«êdên

Question: Did you see where your driver installed??
My x1900xtx sees the monitor fine I just didn't find the driver to integrate in an silpstream cd, despite extracting & installing it.

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I simply downloaded the sceptre.inf from their website and put it in Windows/System. Then I found my monitor (listed as "Plug and Play", sort of a generic term) and updated the driver, selecting it from the list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by »X$«êdên

What mouse are you using? Which one may you try?Am curious of the new logitech ergo wise. Havent tried switching back to vga from dvi with the mouse. Then I wondered of pci e freq & usb speed boost lol the possibilities.

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I am using the MX1000 Laser mouse. I am going to do some research and find my ideal mouse. I have really loved this one though, its just that now with an LCD I feel pressed to go cutting edge and get the fastest one I can find. Even if it has to be corded its a tradeoff I can live with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by »X$«êdên

I may just have to take mine back to get this 22 Gamer one. Just wish it said 4-2ms(if that matters). It wasn't available at the costco when I ordered. The idea of the extra usbs, HDMI, nice buttons *trust me the Sceptre 20.1" W DVI LCD ones are a bit clunky in front but for $130 less I guess I could keep it & wait till these improve...hmm.

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It's worth the small price gap, trust me ;)

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Originally Posted by »X$«êdên

LCD DVI/VGA Dimensions: 18.75" W x 15.38" H x 7.1" D 1000:1 Vs. # DVI/VGA/HDMI Dimensions: W 21.9" x H 19.0" x D 4.5" 1200:1 Flicker and Static Free, Plug and Play (DDC1/2B DDC2B)??
Anyways...Nice screens and great review...just in time! Keep us updated.Thank you.:woot:

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No problem, I will try to keep this thread updated with info (post-review) type stuff as I use it more.

Also sort of off topic but sort of on - does anyone know if installing the Logitech software will speed up the mouse any? Higher dpi/refresh maybe? Maybe just wishful thinking but i've never installed mouse software.

May go out tonight & get the 22 gamer & set it next to this one...HEHE but my 680 will get here at the same time & am contemplating another try at it...*no brain left*.
OT:
I have the mx518 and the older setpoint with the disc comes with the proper gui, the new generic range 310 setpoint has many gui & with windows hid gets glitchy "sometimes" due to me turning off services :). I have the 500 510s too.

I use the setpoint to force Speed/acceleration to setpoint vs. OS run which is faster in my opinion. Then I have the settings pretty high and change fov in my game which gives the feel of speed even more. Plus you can setup your games in the Advanced gaming settings section which I like & have custom buttons rather than the "change sensitivity" options. (not sure I care for the extra services running shown in task manager...)

Just peeked at the site again and they have a Battlefield edition lol
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...ONTENTID=12898
But I am curious of the mx rev performance.
I tried the G5laser before & took it back and the recent ones are missing a few buttons I like to set to weapons! or zoom.

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Originally Posted by »X$«êdên

I use the setpoint to force Speed/acceleration to setpoint vs. OS run which is faster in my opinion.

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Is this in reference to mouse lag on LCD screens (cursor slightly behind hand movements)?

Hello everyone. I think I'll finally get back with this
LCD Guide since I may be getting a 2407wfp soon :p:
But I need you guy's help: Go HERE

Thanks
-Turok

haha, yeah definetly going to forward my parents to this guide next time they ask me about lcds

I want to order a new LCD. Can you recomend me? Plz recomend one normal and one widescreen. (min 10 or 8ms, 16.7) I mostly will use this screen for internet, word, exel, Autocad, Visual Basic 2005, Games, Movies. price range ~400

he soul thanks for that review the lcd looks beatiful if you dont know what to do with that resolution imagine me wit 1920x1200 desktop is so damn big 200 icon doesnt feel like a lot xD

Recently obtained a benq FP241W 24" widescreen, very impressed with its color reproduction, good gaming experience, hardly any smearing in FPS. Excellent for watching movies, but with the usual TFT twinkling, those Microsoft HD-WMV trailers look stunning @ 1080P.... bring on blue-ray/HD-DVD. So glad I paid a bit extra and went for this screen over the dell 2407wfp, I just can't find a single fault with the benq's image quality.


http://www.users.on.net/~bugeyes/ind...ts/Desktop.jpg

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Originally Posted by bugeyes

Recently obtained a benq FP241W 24" widescreen, very impressed with its color reproduction, good gaming experience, hardly any smearing in FPS. Excellent for watching movies, but with the usual TFT twinkling, those Microsoft HD-WMV trailers look stunning @ 1080P.... bring on blue-ray/HD-DVD. So glad I paid a bit extra and went for this screen over the dell 2407wfp, I just can't find a single fault with the benq's image quality.

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Mind if I ask a few questions?

Are you running native resolution with DVI?

What mouse and keyboard are you using? Looks like a G5 corded? What was your previous monitor, and do you notice any input lag?

last screen was a samsung 172X

yeah 1920 x 1200 over DVI and no input lag over dvi or d-sub,

logitech G5 and k-board is a cheap fellowes PS2

I think you should consider adding the Samsung 2ms 17" 731BF to the list, one of the best monitors I've ever seen.

I don't think anything comes close to the Dell 2407 for a 24" widescreen. I would like to buy a similar or better brand then the Dell but for the price...I don't think there is anything out there that can be it. Any opinions on this?

There having a boxing day special on it for $699 canadian.

My sister bought the dell 2407WFP 2 weeks before I bought the BenQ241W, as soon as she saw the difference in image quallity she sent her dell back for a refund and bought the benq! But she dose allot of photoshop and is quite picky, so the image quallity should be fine for you :)

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Originally Posted by Blackbeard

My sister bought the dell 2407WFP 2 weeks before I bought the BenQ241W, as soon as she saw the difference in image quallity she sent her dell back for a refund and bought the benq! But she dose allot of photoshop and is quite picky, so the image quallity should be fine for you :)

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Are you sure both monitors were calibrated correctly? I saw a side-by-side comparison on another site and they were not that different, minus all the extra inputs/options on the BenQ...

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Originally Posted by Soulburner

Are you sure both monitors were calibrated correctly? I saw a side-by-side comparison on another site and they were not that different, minus all the extra inputs/options on the BenQ...

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She brought over her dell and used something call a spider? to set the color on both monitors. said the dell had a magenta color bias and banding or something? something about better dynamic range on the BenQ.

I am assuming you mean this
http://www.colorvision.com/index_us.html
The Spyder Calibration system.

Sounds like she knows what she's doing. I plan on getting that monitor next year after some new products have pushed the price down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soulburner

...

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OT-Great! article/Review on MICE! http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679 :woot:

Hi guys, anyone have any idea where to source a SCEPTRE x22wg in the UK please?

No but the Belinea 2225S1W 22" Widescreen looks good for the money heres a link http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=MO-006-BE

Your right, that does look very attractive!

Thumbs up to you sir.

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Originally Posted by »X$«êdên

OT-Great! article/Review on MICE! http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679 :woot:

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Yeah I saw it. I'm just skeptical because I used to own an MX500 and I like the 1000 a lot better. Since the 518 has the exact same case I really don't feel like stepping back in time to a supposedly better mouse. It just isn't comfortable for me for daily use.

How does this monitor stack up against a 22inch crt in motion blurr? I would like to replace my crt but the lcds get blurry when the action gets going. However this one looks like it may fit the bill;)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236011

That's a real steep price for a 22". For that, I would just spend a little more and get a Dell 24".

guys were can i get the SCEPTRE x22wg i am willing to pay for shipping from america.

i found 1 on ebay but with shipping it comes out at around 380euro is it worth this ??

i can get it off tigerdirect.com for the same price :(

dont think it is worth 380 euros :(

any other ideas :)

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...=SCEPTRE+x22wg

are they the only sites that sell it boo because tiger are the only guys and it works out exp :(

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Originally Posted by awhir

are they the only sites that sell it boo because tiger are the only guys and it works out exp :(

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See my post (4th one down) dated December 1st with all of the sources for the Sceptre x22wg. Don't know if there are any new sources since that list was compiled.

Hi guys

From the OP

"TN panels have become the "gamer's panel" for some time because it sacrifices colour representation, image quality and viewing angles for the best response time possible".

I'm looking for an LCD in the $400-$450 range. My needs are the exact opposite from those of a gamer. I've picked out a few but it turns out that they're all S-IPS (i.e. HP LP2065). I was a bit surprised to read in the OP, from mid-2005, that S-IPS might be 'on the way out in favour of PVA/MVA panels'.

I ordered the new Dell E228WFP on a Boxing day deal ($250 US)... and I had to send it back. It's a 22" TN panel, and I just couldn't deal with the backlight bleed, the weird geometric shadows (dithering?), the washed out colour and the fact that image elements of the same colour looked radically different depending on location (viewing angle issue).

So I'm sure newbs are always on here asking 'which monitor should I get?' Instead, I'll just ask this - if I'm a non-gamer, who doesn't watch movies, whose priorities are colour representation, image quality and viewing angles, given the state of the technology today, should I concentrate my search on MVA panels only or are there more recent S-IPS panels that will work well for me?

Last, can anyone tell me the difference between Prem.MVA panels and simple MVA, as described below? I've been using this guide to figure out which monitors have which panels

http://axofiber.no-ip.org/inside/monitor.lcd.panels.htm

(If anyone feels like chiming in with a specific reco in the $400-450 range, please feel free - Samsung 215TW? HP LP2065? ).

Thanks

A quick informative evaluation. I have the Benq FP202W widescreen monitor, I haven't totally calibrated it yet but the monitor has tearing, ghosting which is easily noticeable in games, and quick moving videos, is very grainy also. I would advise you to stay away from this monitor.

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Originally Posted by Teratism

A quick informative evaluation. I have the Benq FP202W widescreen monitor, I haven't totally calibrated it yet but the monitor has tearing, ghosting which is easily noticeable in games, and quick moving videos, is very grainy also. I would advise you to stay away from this monitor.

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thank you.

btw... nice screen name :)

Thanks for the compliment.

I can't recommend an exact model but If I had to say 4 brands on pure Image quality it would be LaCie, Nec, LG, Phillips. Maybe Forcam as a fifth. The rest of the brands lean a little more to the gaming side than image.

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Originally Posted by Teratism

Thanks for the compliment.

I can't recommend an exact model but If I had to say 4 brands on pure Image quality it would be LaCie, Nec, LG, Phillips. Maybe Forcam as a fifth. The rest of the brands lean a little more to the gaming side than image.

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Hmmm... thanks. It's unfortunate that the list you mentioned doesn't contain any of the names I was looking at (mainly HP, Samsung). I have read a lot of good things about NEC's higher end monitors.

I will check out LaCie and Forcam tomorrow. Thanks again.

I know LG/Phillips manufactures a lot of panels for other builders.

LaCie are a leader in Image quality for crt and lcd or they were if things have changed since I last checked, they are expensive as hell though.

Forcam is a very allusive you might as well give up on finding one of those.

Yeah LG electronics and Phillips make the panels for most of the other screens. Phillips I think has the best then would go LG. LaCie is more for if you need close to perfection monitors. The higher end NEC are good too. All will be relatively expensive.

Anyone have the SAMSUNG 931C?? It seems like its a very good monitor with 250 cd/m2 and a 2000:1 Contrast Ratio as well as a 2ms response time, it seems like its better than the Viewsonic VX922...

Well, I got my 300$ Sceptre x22wg-Gamer off Costco so that I can return it if I change my mind or whatever.

So far my impressions are good. My old LCD was a 17" NEC Multisync 1760V or something. I believe that would be either one of the original PVA or IPS panels.

Overall, I would say that the new one with Chi Mei's TN film has color almost as good. Due to the use of RTC, banding is extremely minimal. Black levels are a little worse than my old one, but not by much. My white point looks really nice though, with very good contrast. Like everyone says, there is some minor bleeding top and bottom, but I only notice this during bootup or watching a fullscreen movie. With the lamp at "0", it is really not an issue.

Twinkling was also not really noticeable unless I put my nose right up to the screen. At a distance of about 3' or so, which is how far back I sit from my monitor, I can't see it at all. Input lag is very, very slight. I noticed it the tiniest bit the day I switch from my old NEC, but after a day I can't even tell. In BF2142 I got two gold medals in a row last night, and my Tom Clancy Rainbow Six skills (a true twitch FPS game) are not diminished either.

I will be able to calibrate with a Spyder2Pro shortly, and will have to tell you all how that goes once I do it. From what I've read, color reproduction is okay in the midtones, and a little worse in the brights. Honestly, a calibrated TN panel is going to better than most people's P-MVAs that are uncalibrated. Some of those ship with terrible settings, and the human eye is a poor calibration instrument.

Overall, I am very happy. The 22" size is much better than my 20" at work as far as web surfing and things like that go. The dot pitch on the 20" is just too small for me, and I have 20-20 vision. Windows XP has half-a$$ed desktop scaling, otherwise it might be okay.

For the money, I am completely satisfied. I am also considering returning this at some point to costco for a BenQ 24" with the P-MVA panel, but I probably won't. I'd rather put the money towards an even bigger 1080p TV when the time comes.

Hey guys, I'm getting sick of my Dell 2405 - want something better.
Primary it's due to the giigantic 1920x1200 resolution my x1900 can't handle
-that and the gray blacks :(

Do any 1680x1050 monitors support 4:3 native (1400x1050 ?) with black bars?

Here are my choices:

dell 2407
Viewsonic ViewDock 22" VX2245wm
Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer
Viewsonic 22" VX2235wm
Envision 22" G22LWK
Dell E207FP 20.1"
X2GEN 22" MW22U

All of them can be seen here:
http://www.costco.com/Common/Search....ch=lcd&topnav=

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

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Originally Posted by KoHaN69

http://www.costco.com/Common/Search....ch=lcd&topnav=

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

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AFAIK all those 22" wide screens you list are using the same Chi Mei panels so it comes down to the engineering implementation, ergonomics, adjustments, etc. The Sceptre is intriguing because it is the only 22" W inthat group that includes an HDMI input, but at only $250 I am thinking about taking a leap on the X2Gen as a secondary gaming/DVD monitor to go with the Viewsonic VP201B I use when I need a real 16.7M colors. Hard to go wrong with Costco's return policy.

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Originally Posted by KoHaN69

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

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First of all, let me say that I have the x22wg-gamer and I like it quite a bit for my purposes. However, NEVER believe what the various companies quote as their contrast ratio. It is one of the cases where different measurement techniques can makes the numbers say whatever they want. Ditto on this for the response time. Response time varies at different color changes - it is never constant.

That being said, I find the black levels on my monitor surprisingly good for a TN panel. I don't quite jump on the bandwagon of people who say that color reproduction on a true 8-bit panel will blow away a 6-bit with dithering and FRC, etc...

I will say that a calibration tool is a MUST for good color. The difference between my uncalibrated LCD and calibrated is like night and day. It affects everything, from color reproduction and accuracy to white and black levels to gamma. Just get a Spyder2express and you will thank me, I guarantee. If you care about the way your screen will look for years to come, it will be the best 70$ you ever spent.

Since your main concern is black levels, I recommend an P-MVA panel, because their black level is superior to S-IPS and TN panels. There are currently not 22" panels that use P-MVA, however 24" and 20" panels exist. Here are two that I believe would suit your purposes very well, depending on the size you want.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/guides/v...c_vx2025wm.htm
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...nufacture=BENQ

TFT central has a lot of excellent articles about LCD technology (panel types, pluses and minuses of each, etc...). I learned most of my general info from them.

Edit: If running games or other devices at 1:1 pixel mapping is an issue for you, only the BenQ 24" has that built in from the two I mentioned. Otherwise you are left to your graphics card drivers. That is something to keep in mind. 1:1 mapping was one of the main reasons I bought the monitor I did instead of another.

So using the 6500k color option isn't good enough?

About the response time, that's why they advertise it was GTG - Green to Green response time.

GTG means gray to gray, and that is usually the most relevant transition, but not always. I think alot of people don't realize that.

But anyway, yeah, the "Medium" or 6500K setting is pretty bad once you calibrate and see the difference. None of the settings are really close.

Basically the way it works is, you use "Recall" to reset to factory defaults, set lamp to about 1 (or zero if you like a dim monitor - I think 1 is optimal), and then just let it do its thing. The difference is massive.

I can't recommend calibration enough. If you look at sites like Les Numeriques, you will notice that the x22wg-gamer (which uses the same panel as that Acer - CMO TN) has really quite good color reproduction. You see it compared to the 2007 with the S-IPS panel, one of the best you can buy. The CMO TN doesn't look bad at all! Anything < 1 is perfect, anything between 1 and 2 is really hard to see unless you are a pro. But you will never get it right by eye. You need hardware to achieve that.

But the main thing that impressed me was the improvement in Black levels. WOW. You have to see it to believe. It won't magically beat a P-MVA panel, but it is just incredible how much better it can get than "by eye" settings or factory defaults settings.

Edit: To see the color comparison after calibration, go to "Rendu des couleurs apres calibration" in the third (bottom) menu. It helps when you have a girlfriend who is a French citizen :) .

I should mention this in case anyone takes my advice and gets a Spyder2Express. This is IMPORTANT.

Do NOT install the software that comes with the colorimeter. Go to the Colorvision website and get the latest version (2.3.3) and install that instead. Then plug in your colorimeter and let it auto-detect and search for the drivers automatically from the install you just did. This will avoid an annoying bug in Windows XP that gives you an error message even though there is no error. The more important fix in that version is that previously, LCDs were calibrated to native white point, which you don't want. The new version calibrates to 6500K, which is optimal.

Also critical is to get rid of Adobe gamma or any other color profiling software that might be installed on your computer.

This isn't as much of an issue if you have the more expensive Spyder2Pro, however. On those you can set the white point manually, among other things.

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Originally Posted by thinkingbear

AFAIK all those 22" wide screens you list are using the same Chi Mei panels

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Well that sucks :stick:
one company says 1200:1 another 700:1 for the same panel? :shrug:

Thanks for all the info shifty803, I heard BenQ 24" is the best.

I'll probably tr out the 2407 first, just to see if there's any improvement from 2405

I calibrated mine using 3 sample images as shown in my review of the monitor. However, that is limited to the human eye. I was able to get the lights, darks and black levels pretty close though.

I may consider one of those with my next 120Hz 24" monitor but not for this one.

shifty803, can you tell me what the bars on those charts are referring to? That site has me confused. I am trying to compare against the BenQ 24".

Honestly, this is not my profession, so I don't know exactly how the "delta E" measurement is done. What I do know is that, in general, it is a measurement of the monitor's accuracy in producing a color.

Neutral gray is 128-128-128 according to software, so if your monitor tries to produce the same color and it is a little off, you will have xx delta E, where "xx" is a measure of how much off it is.

The scale works like this:

< 1 = color reproduction almost perfect
1 - 2 = color reproduction close enough that it is very difficult to notice inaccuracies
2 - 3 = things are getting a worse now, although not terrible
3+ = accuracy is well off, and color difference will be noticeable

Here is a little summary on behardware's site.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...lorimeter.html

Edit: The Spyder2Express does not plot you a delta E graph when you're done, but the calibration is effectively the same as the much more expensive Spyder2Pro (but only for 2.2 gamma and 6500K, which is all SPyder2Express calibrates to). However, if you don't already have a Pro, it is really not worth it unless you are a graphic designer or something.