Andre Yang - Lifetime Ban

Andre is one hell of an Overclocker

Crucifixion is worse than the sin...blame the sin not the sinner

It's incredible how small the actual overclocking league is, considering how each division in MSI's MOA page has scores that range from 40k to 20k. Clearly it's just a bunch of people in the know passing around the pipe.

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Originally Posted by hipro5

Clever old furt!.... :D :p:

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The whole Jesus message was that if you do wrong there are consequences but there is a better way, right? [my condensed version of the message] He gave a choice to people, do right or do wrong, for those that Did not listen to his message, He drew a line in the sand [picked up His sandals and brushed them off] and walked away.

There is a parallel here, the guys that 'did wrong' admitted it [some did] and faced the consequences like men, kudos for that. others not so as far as i'm aware.

I don't think folks are baying for blood here, some feel offended, some couldn't care less because it doesn't affect them, some over react. all in all the right outcome has prevailed imo. the rest is just blowing steam.

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Originally Posted by hipro5

It's simple.

GO back in time when I was "chasing" OPB for his benches.
READ carefully HOW MUCH HATE was "in the air" in those threads.
Do you happen to know how MANY "enemies" did I had that time? :D
What happent?
Nothing!
Life goes on and believe me, without much hate it passes easier and smother!.... ;)


Point someone, yes
Accuse him, yes.
Crucify him, No....

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I agree, and have repeatedly posted similar stuff, my point has always been big picture regarding this...

1 For there to be a group that knows where to get the "good stuff" implies a underground that passes info and results for the gain of the people "in the know" which would make this much more then this one incident... which to me is one of the bigger issues

2 that we need a governing committee that can start to look out for the sport and the players

3 that these seems to be a bunch of borderline tweaks (to be mild) that all the top overclockers use,
so i want to find out about them so i can compete even better....

that is my point of view, Andre and the others -their story is already tagged and bagged by hwbot, xs and a bunch of other people, so that is not my worry,....

another angle: so andre yang gives some ppl results. goes over the "what if's" with them, then goes to bed having no idea if they would get submitted or not... hes banned for life ;)

how about this angle? Great job on the boards MSI, +3 Great overclockers blow them up and require andre (on a cherry sample board Im sure) to run them off scores?

Andre knew he was going to get caught. I refuse to believe he went into this thinking he wouldnt be caught. The real question is, why?

to show that anyone can be bought and its all a money game perhaps as he has shown with his uber binning skills?

Anyone know how much he charged for the results?

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Originally Posted by Splave

to show that anyone can be bought and its all a money game perhaps as he has shown with his uber binning skills?

Anyone know how much he charged for the results?

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1 year ban minimum was the price.

I'm in the market for a sub 6s Pi 1M if anyone has one.

Unless it's proven that the results were sold / exchanged for something, i would say the guys that have used them to claim a prize or ranking are more to blame than Andre. And even if they didn't cross XS' rules I feel it's prefectly normal that this community takes a stance against these practices and bans the cheaters.

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Originally Posted by Micutzu

Unless it's proven that the results were sold / exchanged for something, i would say the guys that have used them to claim a prize or ranking are more to blame than Andre. And even if they didn't cross XS' rules I feel it's prefectly normal that this community takes a stance against these practices and bans the cheaters.

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Umm, sharing results is a nono. That means you are helping others cheat. This has happened in the past as well. (I remember talk about him last year and the year before)

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Originally Posted by Splave

to show that anyone can be bought and its all a money game perhaps as he has shown with his uber binning skills?

Anyone know how much he charged for the results?

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This is why I don't take OC results in competition seriously, they don't really have any bearing on what I'll get out of xyz hardware for my personal builds.

Ultimately what is posted in the LC section has far more bearing on what I need then what someone did with LN2.

I don't think there is a conspiracy here or anything or that AY did it for the money (people seem to suggest that he is quite wealthy!). But instead of wondering why, why doesn't anyone simply ask him?

"He that is without sin among you, cast the first stone." John 8:7

The simple fact is we are ALL fallible and are constantly tempted. We will ALL succumb to temptations at some point in our lives. We ALL have and/or will in the future make a mistake in judgement that we will later regret because we are ALL imperfect.

"Do not judge, lest you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Mathew 7:1-3

We should judge our neighbor as we wish to be judged. And, we should judge a person's true character and integrity not only according to their good or bad deeds, but also according to their words and actions (or lack thereof) afterward.

What I'm ultimately trying to say is, is that we should all be given an opportunity to ask for forgiveness and allowed to correct our mistakes to the best of our abilities simply for the hope to regain the trust and respect we once had enjoyed. If people don't care to do that, then all those concerned should be treated fairly according to man's laws and then let a higher power be our final judge.

:shakes:
No religion talk.

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Originally Posted by xenolith

"He that is without sin among you, cast the first stone." John 8:7

The simple fact is we are ALL fallible and are constantly tempted. We will ALL succumb to temptations at some point in our lives. We ALL have and/or will in the future make a mistake in judgement that we will later regret because we are ALL imperfect.

"Do not judge, lest you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Mathew 7:1-3

We should judge our neighbor as we wish to be judged. And, we should judge a person's true character and integrity not only according to their good or bad deeds, but also according to their words and actions (or lack thereof) afterward.

What I'm ultimately trying to say is, is that we should all be given an opportunity to ask for forgiveness and allowed to correct our mistakes to the best of our abilities simply for the hope to regain the trust and respect we once had enjoyed. If people don't care to do that, then all those concerned should be treated fairly according to man's laws and then let a higher power be our final judge.

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The bible is a great piece of Fiction lets leave it on the book shelf for today

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Originally Posted by GeorgeStorm

Mmm I can understand that
In a away, this is a good thing, as now we have got rid of some of the cheaters, although for all we know there may be more.
It's just a pity this kinda thing happens at all.

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

I don't think there is a conspiracy here or anything or that AY did it for the money (people seem to suggest that he is quite wealthy!). But instead of wondering why, why doesn't anyone simply ask him?

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iwhere?

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind - Gandhi

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

I don't think there is a conspiracy here or anything or that AY did it for the money (people seem to suggest that he is quite wealthy!). But instead of wondering why, why doesn't anyone simply ask him?

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I said it earlier and I'll say it again.
Money wasn't a factor in this from anything I've heard.

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Originally Posted by massman

At HWBOT, all parties received a 1Y ban.

The lifetime ban is only for AndreYang on XS.

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Unless there are more things that didn't hit the surface yet, I dont see why the lifetime ban is required. :shrug: IMHO HWBOT punishment is fair, 1Y for everyone involved in this mess. This should give enough time for the involved to think about it and its also enough to discourage others to do the same.

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Originally Posted by Movieman

I said it earlier and I'll say it again.
Money wasn't a factor in this from anything I've heard.

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I was trying to make the same point:p:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

I said it earlier and I'll say it again.
Money wasn't a factor in this from anything I've heard.

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

I was trying to make the same point:p:

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See, that's one of the issues here. There was money involved in the form of a trip and prizes that would not have gone to the correct winners had this not been discovered. We have all gotten a score that was unbelievable and before we could save it our system crashed, so no proof. We deal with it and move on. That's what these individuals should have done, it sucks, but :banana::banana::banana::banana: happens. Instead they chose to use someone else's scores to win a competition where the winners got a trip to Taipei along with various other prizes. I haven't flown to Taipei, but I would imagine MSI wasn't going to skimp to much on the flight or the hotel room. I would also guess that the total package was probably worth $5000 - $10000. And this doesn't include any sponsorships that would have come from winning. So to say no money was involved is incorrect. Sure, Andre probably didn't ask for anything monetarily, but there was money involved.

As far as why Andre did it, maybe it was to :banana::banana::banana::banana: with the system or maybe it was because he knew he would have these three individuals in his pocket going forward. Having that type of information on someone after the fact is worth a lot, sometimes more than money.

Now, as far as people calling me an idiot (indirectly of course) because I feel Vapor stepping down was the right move, I am going to say it once again, he said he knew and talked to Skinnee about it. A lot of you say that's good enough.

Survey says "Ehhhhhh!!!"

Two things, first, if he felt it was wrong he could have said "Skinnee, don't use the score because it's wrong and I would have to report it." That should have ended the discussion right there and Skinnee wouldn't have used it. You might say that you wouldn't rat on your buddy, but if you are such good friends, then why would they put you in a position where you had to choose, especially when you a mod for a large overclocking site like XS. If they are putting you in that type of postition then you two are not really that good of friends. Which brings me to my second point. I think they are great friends and because of that I doubt Skinnee would have risked it without Vapor's input. Vapor may not have said "Do it.", but I bet he wasn't to discouraging of it either. ;)

Now, with that being said, I am going to say it again for all of you that think I am an "idiot", there are bigger repercussions here than just these guys getting banned for a week or two from XS. The system cannot work if there cannot be trust in it and the players. For those that say "I don't care if they cheated.", that's a piss poor attitude to have and if that's how you feel, then stop posting in here because it doesn't :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing concern you. Move on and let the adults talk about it. I am getting really tired of all the "Oh, we should give them a second chance, they contribute so much.", so did the Catholic priest that molested the kids, should we have said, it's ok, give him a second chance. I think we saw what good that did. Let them take their punishment, let them think about it and when they come back maybe, just maybe they will have learned from it. A message needs to be sent that says cheating will not be tolerated and if you know about it and say nothing then you are part of the problem.

Whoa, just got home from holiday to see this. Shocking. :(

ps. I know it's generally speaking not done to ask why somebody got banned, but how come Benchzowner got banned? Didn't see anything wrong with his posts, but probably got deleted.

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Originally Posted by packetNZ

Andre is one hell of an Overclocker

Crucifixion is worse than the sin...blame the sin not the sinner

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andree is a sinner too .... but dont blame him right .... Oo

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Originally Posted by Splave

how about this angle? Great job on the boards MSI, +3 Great overclockers blow them up and require andre (on a cherry sample board Im sure) to run them off scores?

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LOLL so true ......

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Originally Posted by massman

At HWBOT, all parties received a 1Y ban.

The lifetime ban is only for AndreYang on XS.

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My friend; please enlighten me;

Update 19th July 2010: Since HWBOT does not tolerate the sale of benchmark scores, the act of both selling or buying benchmark scores and uploading them to this database is not allowed. In addition, we strongly believe that no overclocker who is involved in this kind of business should be allowed to be part of the community. Therefore HWBOT will remove any overclocker who buys and/or sells benchmark scores from the rankings and will give this user a lifetime ban.

C'mon ppl it's not the end of the world...

Don't act like it... ;)



It's very sad for the ppl involved however...


I see many Judge Dredds here also....

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Originally Posted by M.Beier

My friend; please enlighten me;

Update 19th July 2010: Since HWBOT does not tolerate the sale of benchmark scores, the act of both selling or buying benchmark scores and uploading them to this database is not allowed. In addition, we strongly believe that no overclocker who is involved in this kind of business should be allowed to be part of the community. Therefore HWBOT will remove any overclocker who buys and/or sells benchmark scores from the rankings and will give this user a lifetime ban.

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See post #1 and #2.

http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8998

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Originally Posted by Praz

See post #1 and #2.

http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8998

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Ah okay, nah, I didnt see that thread... Not that it matters much though... 1 year is quite a lesson.

While I think benchzowner may be rather provocative in his methods
He does raise a valid point
What does it matter whether a score was given freely, or whether it was paid for???

Don't say that George, Bill's ego will even get too big for the internet :p I love that Greek american raskal, reminds me of when I was young

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Originally Posted by GeorgeStorm

While I think benchzowner may be rather provocative in his methods
He does raise a valid point
What does it matter whether a score was given freely, or whether it was paid for???

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It doesnt matter.

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Originally Posted by STEvil

It doesnt matter.

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the rule was about selling and buying, since there was no proof of a purchase, massman would have a whole other team of people after him if he did give a lifetime ban

would you rather live in a place where you more likely to be innocent for things you did do, or guilty for things you didnt do?

if anything people should ask for the rule to be changed to include any submission of a score created by a different user, rather than trading cash

My point exactly
So why on earth does the rule state that money must be transferred for it to break it?

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Originally Posted by STEvil

It doesnt matter.

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I agree, sharing for money or for free isn't the issue.
Submitting someone else's work as your own IS the issue and all the rest is smoke.

Question consists of two parts:

1) Why not lifetime? Because the rule said buy/sell.
2) Why does the rule state buy/sell? It was taken to the extreme to be useful in upcoming events.

BenchZowners question did not raise a valid point. He asked why AndreYang wasn't banned for life and he asked it because he forgot to read the rule. The discussion whether it does or does not matter if there's a financial transaction is certainly interesting and, as I already indicated in another thread on hwbot, it's likely that we need to update the rule.

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Originally Posted by massman

Question consists of two parts:

1) Why not lifetime? Because the rule said buy/sell.
2) Why does the rule state buy/sell? It was taken to the extreme to be useful in upcoming events.

BenchZowners question did not raise a valid point. He asked why AndreYang wasn't banned for life and he asked it because he forgot to read the rule. The discussion whether it does or does not matter if there's a financial transaction is certainly interesting and, as I already indicated in another thread on hwbot, it's likely that we need to update the rule.

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Agreed, just like the other issue we discussed.
No one can see every possibility and you make decisions based on what you know.
I have no issue with your handling of this.:up:

The 'other' issue is more a problem of status roles conflicting with behavioral patterns.

It's not forbidden to burp during dinner, but for sure you don't expect the president to do it :D

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Originally Posted by massman

The 'other' issue is more a problem of status roles conflicting with behavioral patterns.

It's not forbidden to burp during dinner, but for sure you don't expect the president to do it :D

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Touche.. Excellent analogy..:bows:
I'll derail this yet!
When you guys going to get those clusters off of HWBot?:rofl:

Darth Yang, the Dark Cheater has crossed the galaxys to kill our babys, official website: http://www.darthyang.com

http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_c...amallama01.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PDJgaTMGxK...ldfordrama.jpg

http://operachic.typepad.com/photos/..._llama_res.jpg

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Originally Posted by DosDuoNo

Darth Yang, the Dark Cheater has crossed the galaxys to kill our babys, official website: http://www.darthyang.com

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Cool, if you click on the portrait a .3dr file download starts. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

Touche.. Excellent analogy..:bows:
I'll derail this yet!
When you guys going to get those clusters off of HWBot?:rofl:

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I concur GET RID OF THOSE CLUSTERS :down:

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Originally Posted by Splave

to show that anyone can be bought and its all a money game perhaps as he has shown with his uber binning skills?

Anyone know how much he charged for the results?

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Until Andre or the people involved admit to any selling of scores (up until now all parties say they were freely given) your coming across as a rumormonger. Why would andre need to sell those scores, he has no financial need. I understand and agree with teh frustration over this, but unless you have facts or proof.... :down:

Klaatu barada nikto

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Originally Posted by systemviper

Klaatu barada nikto

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"This is my BOOMSTICK!"

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Fugger why are over-clockers so catty? Almost as bad as CSS players on the gaming side.

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

Competition and territory most likely. All sorts of alliances with back stabbing and drama that rivals anything on daytime TV.

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:ROTF::clap:

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Originally Posted by systemviper

Klaatu barada nikto

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See, that one took me a few minutes to remember. I bet most are thinking "The Day the Earth Stood Still" which would be absolutely correct. However, Bruce Campbell also used it in "The Army of Darkness", which was a sequel to the "Evil Dead" and "Evil Dead II". That was a friggin funny movie.

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Originally Posted by TheKarmakazi

Until Andre or the people involved admit to any selling of scores (up until now all parties say they were freely given) your coming across as a rumormonger. Why would andre need to sell those scores, he has no financial need. I understand and agree with teh frustration over this, but unless you have facts or proof.... :down:

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http://videogum.com/img/thumbnails/photos/you_mad.jpg

im asking the person who wrote it if they knew how much :shrug: Isnt this thread a witch hunt and rumor mill?
Why does someone hand out scores on a whim? People just dont do that, there must be something in it for him weather monetary or not has yet to be seen.
Maybe andre wanted to borrow hiwas 7.2ghz ES gulftown? Idk

I understand he is teammate of yours so naturally you want to defend him but dont do the crime. Instead of picking over my single post why dont you add to the conversation with some defense. You come off as if you know something we dont. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

See, that one took me a few minutes to remember. I bet most are thinking "The Day the Earth Stood Still" which would be absolutely correct. However, Bruce Campbell also used it in "The Army of Darkness", which was a sequel to the "Evil Dead" and "Evil Dead II". That was a friggin funny movie.

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thanks bro, i am very much in tune with what you are saying, i think that you need to be part of the new overclocking oversight board, of course it will be a temp spot till we get the real board voted in...

you express a lot of what i see other people wanting to say....plus i agree with a lot of it.... so i say we start this and never look back, see where it takes us! :shrug:

i am setting up the website right now...

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Originally Posted by Splave

im asking the person who wrote it if they knew how much :shrug: Isnt this thread a witch hunt and rumor mill?
Why does someone hand out scores on a whim? People just dont do that, there must be something in it for him weather monetary or not has yet to be seen.

I understand he is teammate of yours so naturally you want to defend him but dont do the crime. Instead of picking over my single post why dont you add to the conversation with some defense. You come off as if you know something we dont. :shrug:

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Yeah I would like to know as well! I mean he is banned already so what else can happen?

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Originally Posted by Cleatus

The bible is a great piece of Fiction lets leave it on the book shelf for today

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Best thing I have heard today! :clap:

:up:

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Originally Posted by Splave

http://videogum.com/img/thumbnails/photos/you_mad.jpg

im asking the person who wrote it if they knew how much :shrug: Isnt this thread a witch hunt and rumor mill?
Why does someone hand out scores on a whim? People just dont do that, there must be something in it for him weather monetary or not has yet to be seen.
Maybe andre wanted to borrow hiwas 7.2ghz ES gulftown? Idk

I understand he is teammate of yours so naturally you want to defend him but dont do the crime. Instead of picking over my single post why dont you add to the conversation with some defense. You come off as if you know something we dont. :shrug:

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I would bet it had nothing to do with money since Andre seems to have plenty, but I would bet he did it to put a few people in his pocket for a rainy day. What else would he have to gain for bringing the system to a screeching halt?

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Originally Posted by systemviper

thanks bro, i am very much in tune with what you are saying, i think that you need to be part of the new overclocking oversight board, of course it will be a temp spot till we get the real board voted in...

you express a lot of what i see other people wanting to say....plus i agree with a lot of it.... so i say we start this and never look back, see where it takes us! :shrug:

i am setting up the website right now...

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:up:

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Originally Posted by Splave

http://videogum.com/img/thumbnails/photos/you_mad.jpg

im asking the person who wrote it if they knew how much :shrug: Isnt this thread a witch hunt and rumor mill?
Why does someone hand out scores on a whim? People just dont do that, there must be something in it for him weather monetary or not has yet to be seen.
Maybe andre wanted to borrow hiwas 7.2ghz ES gulftown? Idk

I understand he is teammate of yours so naturally you want to defend him but dont do the crime. Instead of picking over my single post why dont you add to the conversation with some defense. You come off as if you know something we dont. :shrug:

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Now i would like to ask the question a bit of a different way..
But i will also state from all my reading i never saw anyone post that there was $$$ involved, only that taking $$$$ in payment was against the rules, so i think that it's just the grape vine getting it's signals crossed, no money :shrug:

but this is what i am curious about.... but i am not part of the club so i don't know it;s inner workings...

but this is what i do know...

So... AndreYang gets a 1 year ban from hwbot and a lifetime ban from FM.
Not sure what the other 4 involved (Hiwa, Skinnee, eXtremetweaker.de and kj) are getting, presumably the same BUT...

they (Hiwa, Skinnee, eXtremetweaker.de and kj) seem to be involved by getting scores from Andre and posting them as their own,

now do all these guys know Andre personally ??? (Hiwa, Skinnee, eXtremetweaker.de and kj) From what i read, Hiwa is his teamate but are all these guys good friends,
if not who was the middle man that hooked them up with the "good stuff"


and another big teaser is...
h\ow does Andre get to be the "go to" guy for scores and how long has that lovely situation been going on...

these are the questions that i would like to know :shrug:

lifetime ban from FM also mean no more WorldRecords on hwbot from him as you need a valid orb link

i thought the lifetime ban was from XS

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Originally Posted by stangracin3

i thought the lifetime ban was from XS

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it's all here in the first post from the OP

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Originally Posted by FUGGER

Andre shared scores to alter and or ruin the MOA online contest. :shakes: Four of the results in three different countries were by the same person. Today three members came forward who held winning positions in the Lord of Overclocking competition admitting to using the scores produced by Andre.

This is not the first time reports of score sharing by Andre has been reported but it is the first time verified damaging to an online contest.

After discussion with legit score holders in the contest, they have decided your fate with 100% agreement.

Related articles:
http://futuremark.yougamers.com/foru...=129873&page=9

http://www.overclock.net/software-ne...ng-banned.html

http://hwbot.org/article/news/remova...m_loc_incident

After some time for the dust to settle, it appears that more people are involved that just these four. I applaud those who refrained from submitting.

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Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

andree is a sinner too .... but dont blame him right .... Oo

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you took me out of context....he/they have done wrong he/they have been swiftly dealt with, (kudos for that)

its the public crucifixion i was on about....there a lot of angry posts and fair enough i was just trying to take it down a notch. I love the OC community and this is shattering...(who can you trust now)


"blame the sin not the sinner" Gandhi...

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Originally Posted by packetNZ

Andre is one hell of an Overclocker

Crucifixion is worse than the sin...blame the sin not the sinner

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The sin wouldn't happen without the sinner, the sinner is the source of the sin, so therefore responsible for it, and therefore the one to blame.

FF means your banned

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Originally Posted by Sparky

The sin wouldn't happen without the sinner, the sinner is the source of the sin, so therefore responsible for it, and therefore the one to blame.

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fair call bro..im not justifying what happened at all

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Originally Posted by Planet

FF means your banned

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Fully :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed

whats happened has happened.. besides i love overclocking :D

Ok, this has gone on long enough. Thread locked. I think everything that's needed to be said has been said. This isn't so much of a discussion anymore as it is everyone expressing their outrage, which frankly is pretty useless, especially since it's the same sentiments over and over.

If anyone's mad that I'm locking the thread, feel free to pm me about it, but you'd better have something better to contribute than "omg, they're such scum, omg how horrible the state of things is, omg I would have never..."

I haven't been able to be around for a while due to some family issues, and am very sad to see and read on what's going on.

I hate to see and read these news about my long time firend Andre. I am also dissapointed in some of the responses that were made.

A few of us have discussed about reducing the "lifetime" ban to something different, but first we have to discuss this first with everyone involved.


Also we will start a new thread about the "ethics of overclocking" in the very near future, but we would prefer to discuss this in detail in the appropriate thread.