so anyway i try to overclock my memory on my 8800gts it has samsung it is only stable at 1080 when temps get above 54C and 1242 stable anytime else this is with volt mod, my question is do i do 770/1960/1240 or 865/2210/1080
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so anyway i try to overclock my memory on my 8800gts it has samsung it is only stable at 1080 when temps get above 54C and 1242 stable anytime else this is with volt mod, my question is do i do 770/1960/1240 or 865/2210/1080
Got my MSI 512 gts in today... So far, im not very impressed. The added memory from my 320 gts solved a crysis problem. On detailed parts it used to lock up for 1/2 a second while the hdd was going crazy, i guess 320 aint enough. But im not getting much better fps, and its louder. Around 30fps in crysis where i used to get 25. The clocks are much higher, but it dosent do as much clock for clock. Runs alot cooler, but it just locks up, even at stock clocks when it gets around 70C. My G80 core started to throw artifacts when it hit the high 80's but it kept chuggin, and if you cool it they go away.
Samsung chips, didnt touch voltages yet, but ill see if i can find some 10 turn pots and mod it later today. The highest i got it stable on stock volts is 785/1560/1130.
I replaced the 3" layer of crap with AS5, and the temps are down about 3C to 60C full load on the fuzzy cube, 24C ambients.
I know i have a few 20k pots, would that work out fine on the mem? Or would it be a whole lotta overvoltage even turned way down? Ill probably mess around with a resistor substitution box and see what i want my range to be anyways.
Hmmm...
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/4xqbw/
Is that good?
ZOMGVTEK,
How is the stability at 950MHz/2325MHz/DDR-2650?
well i have a Msi 8800gts and i broke my 8800gts bfg and the almost clock about the same cept i get 865/2160/1080 and the bfg 850/2100/1080 idk whats up with the memory it seems to be unstable after a certain temp
Hmmm...
Even at 1.500Vidle, i cant get it to be stable for even a second at 900/2200.
I guess back down the shaders....
EDIT: It takes 1.40125vIDLE to do 875/1150, around 70.0 ohms additional resistance. Anything higher just starts to take WAYYY too much voltage.
Moving on to the memory...
EDIT: 3,785 Ohms on the mem gets me 2.250Vload on the mem, and im stable at 1225...
Now, time to put them both togther and hardclock the new settings.
Ok,
The GPU is locked via a resistor at about 1.43V load, im trying to find a 1kohm trimmer around the house.
The Mem is at 2.250V idle, 2.248V load. Currently stable at 2225. Im going to be upping this slowly and benchmarking. Currently my ambients are 28.5ºC, so thats a hell of a stress test on the stock cooler.
BIOS modded so the fan ramps, reaches 100% at 58ºC, its running the fuzzy cube at 60-62ºC right now at 850/2150/1200.
More to come, maybie some pics.
Hmmm...
So, my 3d mark 06 score went from 17,691 with no vmods to 13,768.
It runs faster for about 1/2 a second, then it really slows down, and picks back up. Average is apparently lower. Whats up with that?
the fuzzy cube fps is lower as well. Its stable, but slower than before, at higher clocks?
At the same clocks it used to run at before the volt mod, it is now significantly slower.
What would cause this? Too much voltage? I will back down the voltages and see if that helps, and if it dosent, back to shock it is...
*sigh*
Ok,
I backed the mem voltage down to 2.053V idle, 2.050V load. Its still stable at 1230.
Im going to back the core voltage down, it looks like 1.450 is way too much...
Ok, got it down to 1.275V idle GPU, and 2.050V idle MEM. ATI tool is showing increased framerates now, but i get LOWER scores in 3dm06 still...
Only about 500 points lower, but why does a vmod and overclocking give me a lower score?
1. it may be throtling due to temps?
2.reinstall your vid drivers?
and in what area are you losing points compared to stock runs?
Doing 841 core, 2102 shader, 2205 mem right now on stock cooler and stock volts :D .
I love my card ...
yea when i run 3dmark apps they are so low in score my old 8800gts g80 would beat it, idk whats up, but when i had my old 8800gts g92 bfg i got about 17000, but after spend hours trying to find my highest stable and i fount it at 850/2160/1215 all games run great even crysis, i got 29.9 average on 1680x1050 very high in everything in xp, i like to note run 174.74 drivers are the best i gained about 2-3fps on the gpu test from goin from 169 drivers
I figgured out most of the issues. I think im at a little too high clocks or voltages for the stock cooler, running at 850/2100/1250 right now. I think 1.3ish V gpu, and 1.050V mem load.
The GPU core slowdown temp somehow got down to 80C from 100, and aparently it throttles down before it hits that? It was at around 70C, so thats not 80, but alright... it works fine when its set to 100C.
Im getting better framerates in crysis, UT3... etc. but when i compare my bench at the max stable non vmodded G92 GTS to after i vmodded it with higher clocks its about 500 points worse now in 3DM06.
Applications preform better, but 3DM06 says its worse? Odd...
I think 900 core is not possible with the stockcooler other than in artic conditions for more than just a single benchmark.
850 is quite easy and should be within reach with the stockcooler.
The reason for your bad score is most likely throttling, just go easy on volts with the stockcooler.
If you want to run this card over 850 core, you should watercool it.
Mine went from 59ºC idle to 32ºC idle with watercooling, a nice improvement i'd say.
This is making no sense.
At the exact same speeds i was running 3DM06, i now get a 15,500 where i got a 17,600 before the Vmod...
What the hell happened?
Im about ready to just rip this stuff off and forget about it.
back off on the mem clock and volts i could get it to 1250 but i had it keep artifacting terrible cuz the volts were to high run right untill i set the volts so it work for 1215 and havent had any problem now its been a while since i had a 8800gts work right and not crash when im playing cryis im so happy:) but my clocks are 850/2160/1215 i just did a 3dmark06 it was 17200, with a
q6600@3600,
PS: CAN SOMEONE PLZ HELP ME FIX MY BFG 8800GTS I WOULD LOVE TO SLI I WOULD POST PICTURES I WOULD REALLY APPRICATE THE HELP
I also have a Q6600 running at 3.6, and at much lower clocks i get a 17800, with no vmods. I just pulled the stuff off and its running back to where it was.
I need to get a 50k trimmer for the mem, my 20k at 20k put the mem around 2.01. And i didnt even have a trimmer soldered onto the gpu, i had to run clip leads to a big 20 turn 10k, wich got tricky to manage near 1.2+v.
I'm running my evga 8800gts 512mb at @779/1098/1913 and it hits 75c tops with 60% fan. Should i bother volt modding if i dont plan on changing around the cooling? And those clocks are all 10 away from artifacts.
yea im using a 50k its more persise, and to the other guy 75C is kinda high set your fan to 75% thats what i set my fan and idk i only got to 72C with the volt mod at 1.4before i got a ARCTIC COOLING Accelero S1 VGA Cooler - Retail i never go above 58C but anway u proubly can vmod your ram if u have samsung should be able to get to 1200 and report back to me when u set it to 75% try open case
I'm running 1,30V idle, 1,35V load at 848/2100/1100 (samsung mem- No vmod on memory) 24/7.
So what is a "safe" voltage to run these cards at? I am hitting 860/2100/2250 w/ 1.4 Vgpu loaded on an mcw60r. I just want to know how much more I should turn it up.
So, i got a thermalright hr-03 plus.
And then about now found out that people say the cooler designed for 8800 series cards will not cool my 8800 gts 512...
UGH.
So, what makes it not fit? Do i want to get the GT version, or can i mod the plus version easy?
well im have some big problems now idk whats up my graphic card on the back is like burning hot like i burnt my finger and it cause stability issues also seems like my whole computer is really hot more than average, i notice this when i heard a weird buzzin from my power supply everything still worked then it just went away any ideas?
It's my first time doing vmods on a video card I don't rly know how to get started but I got some 1k VR's it says from left to right, 3,2,1, three legs, under the 3 it says CW, which number would be ideal for ground?
EVGA 8800GTS 512 Watercooled +Vmod 900-2253-1150(mem)
EVGA 680i sli A1
Q6600 @ 4050ghz Watercooled
Ram OCZ Platinum @900mhz 4-4-4-9-1T
18076 3dmark 06 :)
You might not want to do it if you dont know what youre doing.
Take a look at the bottom of the card, do you see the area you need to solder to? Have you ever soldered before? You are going to need a multi meter to do this, and it dosent sound like you have one. If you did, you could use it to measure what legs to use if you didnt know.
Seriously, you have a good chance of blowing the card if you dont know what youre doing.
hey guys i need the componet right by the power insert, their is about 8 of them i think one is bad because im not getting any power, i tried a different one of my old gts g80 didnt do anything , it would help me so much if u could tell me what it is call and where i could get it
thank you
A capacitor? The big round silver thing? That would not affect the thing from getting power. And they dont really go bad, other than after 10+ years, or if they get too much voltage or reverse voltage and explode.
And you have a G80 GTS laying around that is useless to you? I kinda need parts off one... lol...
I finally got the revision 2 of the Vmod done. Took about 5 mins, lol. Im a fan of my new read point method... ;)
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/381/img0034pa0.jpg
And a quick 3DM06 run...
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4450/vmodc1um0.png
Im only at 2.000 Vmem, and about 1.3V core under load, the stock cooler + high ambients isnt a great combo. I have a thermalright hr-03 gt on the way. Then i can get some higher voltages, and should be able to get the mem up to 1250 stable. I had it there before anyways, but i didnt mess around much, just a little extra v.
well if affects it from working, well i had it come off one i solder it on and it worked, but i think it might of touched both ends and gottend fried but not the bored but they can go bad if they touched, and yea i do have a 8800gt g80 320mb evga it broke like a year ago, first solder opps
What's the 24/7 safe Vmem for Samsung memory? How about the max vmem?
Bought a better second GTS now, and this is what i can do so far:
http://www.abload.de/img/zwischenablage028px.jpg
Vgpu 1.349V at idle.
But that new Zotac have just Qimonda on it, but still one of the better cards with that memory. My other Zotac can do 1206MHz + without any mod.
Tomorrow on XP with system clocked to maximum. Let's see what i can reach!
http://www.abload.de/img/wakue9hb.jpg
Pretty low temps on the GPU funkflix. What rads are you using?
Chiller @ 21°C water. ;)
Kiparosu, I was wonder the same thing so I asked Largon and he said around 2.15V approximately where I would want my samsung. I will say that the samsung memory gets extremely hot with just sinks and needs a fan if you are watercooling just the gpu like I am.
there is a beginning for everything ;)
I didn't have any soldering experience before to vmod my GT and although it's not very pretty, it turned out working very well.
Just read this guide before to take the plunge: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=115387
But you should train on an old PCB before to do the real one. I used a old floppy drive, and although the soldering points were much bigger, it helped me a lot.
You'll need a good soldering iron with a fine tip plus some basic stuff like DMM.
stuff like this seems to be pretty simple, it's just the soldering that can be a bit difficult at the beginning. But i loved your guide its nice you actually done the mod so we the novices can see it in real! :up:
I got my cooler in, keeps my card around 58ºC at 1.45v core, 785mhz.
The problem is, my 3dm06 scores are LOWER than what they were. It looks like out of nowhere the card slows down... Why?
On ATI Tool, the fuzzy cube runs fine at 1300+ fps, then if you keep opening and closing it, it will just shoot down to 7-800 ish.
Id assume it is doing this sometime during the 3dm06 run...
It was doing this before on the stock cooler when it got hot. But it isnt hot...
Check PCIe link width in CPU-Z when you notice the slow down.
Ok... I think i got the random slowdowns figgured out.
And im currently testing stability at 865/2275/1295
1.52 Vcore Load, 1.205 Vmem Idle, 1.201 Vmem Load.
I still cant get above 18,600 ish 3DM06...
I WANT 20K! I guess i could run at 4.0... *sigh*
And whats the highest 24/7 voltage i should run on the mem? i have it at 2.25 ish now to get it stable at 1300.
i wouldnt push more than that
Im finding it quite difficult to get it stable at 900/2200 , or 900/2100, 900/2000, 900,2300. I was testing with 1.3V load, 1.35V load, 1.4V load, 1.45V load, 1.5V load...
Maybie my core... just wont do 900? :(
My mem is currently stable at 1300 @ 2.175V load... Maybie i can bring it higher...
Oh... and what does a solid white screen mean?
And what driver version should i be using, or does it not matter?
...Whoops?
I was trying to figgure out why the voltages were jumping around soo much, and noticed i somehow put in a 20K trimmer on the GPU... Yea, it was hard to get what voltage i wanted. You think 1k is bad >1.35V? try 20k. Anyways, i dug up a 500 ohm 20 turn... MUCH MUCH better.
It appears that additional voltage is a problem if your not using it. My card is stable at 850/1200 if i give the gpu 1.46V under load. If i run 1.47 into it, it locks after a few mins, 1.48 and its even faster...
So, it would appear one shouldnt just crank up the voltage and see how high you can get it...
Hi, sorry for the thread necromancy, but since this thread tough me how to Vmod il show what i acomplished
i'm on stock cooler so i could only go as high as the 50C load limit.
for me that was idle 1.33V --> 1.35VLoad 901/1223 Stock Vmem 1103 (Qmonda)
Some results, used LOD 3, pci Frequency 119. (No mipmaps etc)
i did Aquamark, since the other test take long then my card heats up above 50C and Freezez :P
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/345/am4000ny5.jpg
I'm a little afraid to give the mem more than 2.1V. Everest says GPU Memory temp 36deg Celsius, but my finger-meter sais at least 50 on the heatsinks. Burning hot.
You can give it a little more. 50 c is fine for a video card. Heck, even 75-80 is ok. Usually I top it off at 80 though. Btw if you want to lower your temps, rip off the stock cooling, scrape off the thermal stew and put in a little bit of as5. HUGE temp drop that way.
If the temp gets really high (like...you cannot put your hands on the heastinks) you should use a fan to cool them. I wonder...why don't you get some waterblocks for the GDDR also?
1. I plan on putting a side fan blowing towards the card, yes
2. Waterblock for GDDR= full cover block = multiple dissadvantages: expensive, cannot use with other card, hotter core, etc.
Did you think of buying/making a waterblock just for the GDDR and VRM? :)
I just voltmodded my 8800GTS 512, yet it seems to work exactly as it did before. I might have screwed up the voltmod somehow, but it seems to be right according to my testing. When I dial up the VR, my multimeter measures a higher voltage, ATITool also claims a higher idle temperature. I've dialed the voltage all the way to 1.39 V according to my multimeter and can't even overclock my GPU even 10 MHz higher than it was on stock (I had 850 on stock, still do after vmod). All that effort voltmodding for nothing?
Yea, 850 on stock voltage (although I had to lower it a little once I upped the memory). I'm using stock cooling, but I heard these cards can easily handle temperatures up to 80 degrees and weren't there others who said that they got to 900 MHz without 3rd party cooling?
p.s. Right now it's running at 1.299 V idle, 1.361 V load, max temp under load is 68 degrees, and can't go above 850 core :(
Well as far as I know 50degrees is the breaking point. Try putting it under water or buy an accelero. I think you have a great card if it does 850core on stock cooling. Mine is watercooled with MCW60 at 864/2100/1100 mem rock stable at 1,32V idle-1,37load. Anything more on the core will artifact. It does 900 on core with 1,4v though.
I've been fooling around further with the card. Apparently when I unlink GPU clock and shaders, and keep shaders on stock, I can raise the GPU clock all the way to 975 MHz (max allowed by RivaTuner) and it stays stable (1.32 V idle). Yet when running 3dmark06, I see no difference between 650/1625/972 (standard) and 975/1625/972. I don't get it, without the shaders GPU clocks have no effect or is there something wrong with my RivaTuner?
Vmoded my Gigabyte 8800GTS yesterday; I used 500ohm and 50kohm VRs:
http://ceemic.pri.ee/hardware/8800gts/mod1.jpg
http://ceemic.pri.ee/hardware/8800gts/mod2.jpg
http://ceemic.pri.ee/hardware/8800gts/mod3.jpg
http://ceemic.pri.ee/hardware/8800gts/mod4.jpg
Glue-gun-boss:D
Def voltages rised to:
Vgpu 1,167/1,218 -> 1,193/1,239
Vmem 2,02V -> 2,04V
How much volt for mem is safe?Mine goes 1200 with 2.15
2.15 is ok. Stop there for 24/7
Temperature of memory is 42C under load.How much volt for bench on air?
Ooh i had a tragedy :/
was just about to have a run with Dice and my kinpin pot.
Pc on.. grafix card BEEPS, i noticed there wasnt core contact :brick:
i then re aplied the pot.. then it didnt boot + no image..
i put it in a friends p5k and the image is messed up, its got artifacts all over..
my card could do 830 stock :? and mark03 stable at 919 1.42 full load so i would have had some fun :(
im gonna get a 9800gtx now.. but i dont like it at all, it doesnt clock as high as a matured gts is the way i see it :/, but i guess i have to since it costs the same..
sigh
Oh and i cant RMA it, cause i got it off RMA'ing the previous one.
Lost a good clocker there :(
i know.. im strugling to get one as good, i got a replacement asus card, but its just not an xfx :(
We all lose a good friend in our OC travels, learn from it but dont give up!
I've been trying to see how far I can push a watercooled 8800GTS voltmodded with about 1.4 vgpu. The card never goes above 42 celsius. I'm not getting artifacts in ATITool, but it locks my entire PC up and I have to reset it. Upping the voltage doesn't seem to help. I'm guessing this means it just can't handle the core and/or shader clocks?
That seems normal.
my gts can do 919core, at 1.42load, more volts doesnt give me a even a spec more Core, only freezez.
More voltage only helps when your card is below -20
URGENT
ANYONE KNOW of another place to Solder for Vcore? ANY other solder point other than the current one?
please.
Thank You! You Are Legend!
Seeing this reminds me that I forgot to respond to your PM. :shrug: At any rate...what Vivi2 said.
*************************
Here's my latest bit of fun in the heat!
It took me a while, but here are my warm weather bench results (77*F ambient - all air)!
848/2268/1274(2548)
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P6150026.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P6150028.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P6150029.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P5200070.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P5200076.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P5200077.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P5200078.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P5200079.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...7/P5200081.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...4207/18300.jpg
Guys i want to ask a important Question here.
I had an asus on hardmod. then i put volts up to 1.42 and Diced it. i got a few benchies like 03 done at 1000mhz. BUT. after the 3 the card died. no boot anymore. so i know its dead.
Can anyone tell me if there is risk that the card will break if u dice + hardmod it? (Like too much info to process for the controller and IT dies)
Ive got a really good card atm that does 842 03 stable at stock. ive never seen such a good card. now i want to know if voltmodding + dice will also cause a death Due to something other than the core giving way.
Any info? thanks.
did you insulate properly?
I'm guessing not.
ofcourse i did :)
So can i get confirmation
Hardmod + Cold + Good inso = no death, its safE? Enough
I think you need to read these forums a bit more if you're asking the question.
sorry stevil for looking noob, ive dice'd before but im still new so i just want to figure out some things.
Thanks anyway
cheerz
You pushed the Vcore 30% above design and you are asking why it might have died...even with
D-Ice/LN2. That was probably 10% above where the core hit the Vcore wall from internal current
leakage and stopped responding to the higher Vcore with tangible clock speed gains.
Try the 842 ROP clock in a 25 pass 3DM01 Nature only torture loop with the title screens disabled
and see if it holds up.
Viper
thanks allot will do, sorry if i sounded ignorant
So viperJohn, u mean i should keep the vcore lowish like 1.35v? and then ln2 it? im trying to understand what you typed but im not english so its a little bit confusing but looks like it makes sense
thanks allot man
mods are done, just tell me if anyone thinks something will get smothered.
[quote name='Ch@pS' date='28 Jun 2008, 05:38 PM' post='208337']
Ill be there in Z4CK's place if he doesnt want to go(provided you all pay for me to be there :P)
[/quote]
Cant remember what user had this idea, where u just plug in the VR instead of making a Swtch, but thanks to him wherever he is :)
made it as neat as i could, and nicely taped to fit snugly so i can insulate without worrying it will fall off
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2217/15fm2.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2604/11rs6.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8608/12kl5.jpg
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1386/13vq3.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/199/14hh9.jpg
I think i've suggested that before, but dont think i'm the first.
Yes you need insulation if you plan on playing below ambient temperatures for anything beyond 5-10 minutes.
Condensation does not often cause the death of a part but it can cause instability and the part to seem "dead" until it has sufficiently dried (several hours to days depending on method). Usually the part dies due to a failure from too much voltage and/or current.
yea i think i got the idea from you if i look a few pages back
Im insulating the hell out of this thing, if anything would go wrong it would be something else popping, and i hope it doesnt :(
Thanks for your help!
Will post results after the weekend.
Op simple question
I volt modded my GTS (just the core) and I'm still running the factory cooling do I need 2 heat sink the mem if I switch coolers? I have a ZALMAN VF900 that is not currently being used. What about the mofsets? as in jason4207's card? The reason I ask is I usally or used to bound my sinks to the mem and I may this time just want to go back to the factory cooling later on. Thx
I don't know about the samsung memory chips but the quimonda tend to run pretty hot under load, even at stock volts.
Unless you're pointing a bigass fan onto the the card i think you'd best sink 'm. ;)
I had samsung chips on my old GTS, and even running 2.25v through them, they didn't get that warm. However to be on the safe side, i'd feel how hot they get and if its more than slightly warm, get a fan onto them and/or sink them.
Thx guy's I think I will just stay with stock cooler 4 now
Well I couldn't help myself. I mounted the sinks on the mem and installed the ZALMAN VF900 cooler. Well wish I would have never gone ahead with it. Temps are through the roof now 87c I was getting max 68c. The stock cooler works better than the ZALMAN. Yes I pulled the heat sink and I have a good mount. While I had it out cheacking the mount I went ahead and did the Mem voltage mod. Looks like I'll be getting a water block and be hooking my koolance exos up to it in the near future. For now I'll have to turn down the voltages and clocks. Voltage wasnt crazy high ether 1.25 w/clocks of 775/1925/1150
WOOF!
damn that does not sound right
maybe your cooler is concaved at the bottom and is making bad contact?
shouldnt be that warm
Ya I'm not sure whats going on myself I thought this would be better than the stock cooling here is a link to the exact cooler and all the reviews seem to praise it with a drop in temps. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118001
I do notice that the fan is only running @ 1800-1900 RPMs and it should run 2400+ I have it plugged right into a fan header and I'm not using the Variable controller, the controller actually slows the fan down at its max setting. I have fan management disabled in bios (can't remember what it's really called.)
I'm not pumping crazy volts into the GPU right now it's 1.190 Idle and the temps were like this before I did the Mem Mod. Volts for the mem are set as of now 1.942v and both the GPU and mem are nicely soldered and working correctly.
Heat just pours out by the heat pipes when running 3d.
I believe the mount is correct as there is no high spots of TIM on the GPU
It's getting late I will tear it down again in the morning.
That doesnt sound right, unless the Zalman is a very weak HSF or you have bad contact. Did you use too much/too little thermal paste? Have you tried running the zalman fan off a molex rather than a mobo fan header?
Failing that, can you remove the ram sinks and go back to the stock setup?
After pulling the Sink again, It's not concave the mount is good no excessive TIM just a Dab that covers the whole GPU. I can't seem to find a adapter to convert the fan plug to a molex, but I don't think another 500rpms is guna be my saving grace, even if it worked.
This cooler is just to small for the heat out put of the 8800gts. The Factory sink is larger, has more pipes and i think the fan moves more air all leading up to my over heating issues. I had the dual slot design.
I can't remove the mem sinks as I bonded them on. I will just have to purchase a GPU water block and get my Koolance Exos out of the closet. I might as well get a CPU block to no use just running it for a Vid card.
I have a quick question. What would be better ? An overclocked 8800gts 512mb 900core-2200shader-1150mem, or an stock dual 8800gts 512mb SLI setup.
I ask this because the overclocked gts scores around 18k on 3d06, and the stock SLI setup gets around 15-16k on 3d06.