The Fermi Thread - Part 3

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Originally Posted by Chumbucket843

i cant really make up data that they dont give me. i just assume that people realize that it could be fake or manipulated. the criteria for games were dx11 and newer gpu heavy games. out of the 8 games i chose to use 4 could not be maxed out by the gtx480.

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Don't worry about it, people on another forum I post on are getting all riled up because their doom/gloom predictions are in all likeliness dead wrong at this point, too. People wildly claiming "It's 10% slower than a 5870!!!! It's too hot to run, it's so late no one cares, Charlie is clearly right, etc.!!!!" are looking like they have egg on their face, and no one likes admitting they're incorrect ;).

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

Don't worry about it, people on another forum I post on are getting all riled up because their doom/gloom predictions are in all likeliness wrong at this point, too. People wildly claiming "It's 10% slower than a 5870!!!! It's too hot to run, it's so late no one cares, Charlie is clearly right, etc.!!!!" are looking like they have egg on their face, and no one likes admitting they're wrong ;).

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The only people who admit they're wrong are usually people who know a lot about the subject anyway and don't feel the need to prove themselves to the audience. And when you're blindly following Charlie's statements you can't be knowing much, so...

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Originally Posted by Ramon Zarat

I double checked on Nvidia website about Physx hardware accelerated game and it seems I was right the first time... *Only* 17 games total, most of which are total crap.

Batman: Arkham Asylum
Crazy Machines II
Cryostasis
Dark Void
Darkest of Days
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 (GRAW2)
Metal Knight Zero Online (MKZ)
Mirror's Edge
Nurien
PT Boats: Knights of the Sea
Sacred 2
Star Tales
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal Tournament 3: Extreme Physics Mod
U-WARS
Warmonger: Operation Downtown

Sources: http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

Anyone still think Physx is a valid argument to mention when talking about Nvidia?

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lol, when you own games with physx, it's a legit reason to consider nvidia. if you don't like nvidia and don't care about the gf100 cards, feel free to tell someone else about it. :up:

NVIDIA to get official with Fermi GPUs, will 'more than double the performance' of existing cards.

LOL how much did they pay the wall street journal to print that?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/24/n...than-double-t/

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

Don't worry about it, people on another forum I post on are getting all riled up because their doom/gloom predictions are in all likeliness dead wrong at this point, too. People wildly claiming "It's 10% slower than a 5870!!!! It's too hot to run, it's so late no one cares, Charlie is clearly right, etc.!!!!" are looking like they have egg on their face, and no one likes admitting they're incorrect ;).

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I think its obvious what "other" forum as you have the same if not close to the same user name ;)

Heh those are nice numbers, but I guess we'll have to wait a while before prices drop...

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Originally Posted by annihilat0r

The only people who admit they're wrong are usually people who know a lot about the subject anyway and don't feel the need to prove themselves to the audience. And when you're blindly following Charlie's statements you can't be knowing much, so...

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Dead-on accurate. I love the ones going "Charlie got most of it right! He's an awesome journalist!" on the hardforum. Good times, lots of laughter to be had reading the so-called "technical enthusiasts" there who don't know what half the terms even mean, let alone what they do.

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Originally Posted by Trigger5521

NVIDIA to get official with Fermi GPUs, will 'more than double the performance' of existing cards.

LOL how much did they pay the wall street journal to print that?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/24/n...than-double-t/

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They said "double the performance of nVidia's existing cards", not double the performance of all current cards from both companies.

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Originally Posted by 96redformula

I think its obvious what "other" forum as you have the same if not close to the same user name ;)

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Did I act like I cared? Sorry, I didn't mean to give off that impression.

You know, it does make you feel good to see things that agree with your opinion (studies have shown this) so if you are pre-dispositioned towards Nvidia it physically (well, mentally I guess) makes you genuinely feel good to see benchmarks/reviews saying Fermi is better. You don't even have to be a fanboi, you just need to have some hope/want for Fermi to perform well.

And most of these leaks are not matching up, all I can really say is wait just a day or two.

Sky said that he was going to check whether or not the NDA expires at 6PM on the 26th or just on the 26th... possibly some down-under reviews ahead of time?

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

Did I act like I cared? Sorry, I didn't mean to give off that impression.

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I just thought it was funny, cause "Hardforums" takes the same amount of time to type "other forums"

I think its safe to say that ATi 5970 is the new G80, meaning that those who bought (like G80 users did) one made the best long time investment in gpu hardware.

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Originally Posted by 96redformula

I just thought it was funny, cause "Hardforums" takes the same amount of time to type "other forums"

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Nope, it's just how I formed the sentence in my head as I typed it out :). I don't think with the same username and even crossposting some of my posts near-verbatim that it's any secret who I am on each site :p: .

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Originally Posted by 96redformula

I just thought it was funny, cause "Hardforums" takes the same amount of time to type "other forums"

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It would probably fall under forum etiquette, no need to mention/promote other forums by name.

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Originally Posted by Sushi Warrior

Sky said that he was going to check whether or not the NDA expires at 6PM on the 26th or just on the 26th... possibly some down-under reviews ahead of time?

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Just the 26th would be a sweet treat, but I'm guessing it'll probably be 6pm EST on the 26th since that's when nVidia's big presentation is at PAX East in Boston MA.

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Originally Posted by highoctane

It would probably fall under forum etiquette, no need to mention/promote other forums by name.

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That too, but I won't lie and say that was what had driven that... it's just how it came out when I was formulating the sentence this time :p:. I usually do only refer to other forums with acronyms or as "other boards" in posts though.

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

That too, but I won't lie and say that was what had driven that... it's just how it came out when I was formulating the sentence this time :p:. I usually do only refer to other forums with acronyms or as "other boards" in posts though.

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Subconscious forum etiquette, you didn't even have to think about it!! :D

Honestly I hope some of you guys are right that fermi is better than it was looking for a while there.

I'm not a fan of NV these days, but I want the best card I can get, regardless of what sticker is slapped on it. :D

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Originally Posted by Sly Fox

Honestly I hope some of you guys are right that fermi is better than it was looking for a while there.

I'm not a fan of NV these days, but I want the best card I can get, regardless of what sticker is slapped on it. :D

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Wouldn't a 2x2GB 5990 or whatever it will be called be the king?

Seems the $549 price is accurate. Go to google shopping search, type in "gtx480" and see what pops up...

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$549.00 new
Free shipping

ZipZoomFly 14,260 seller ratings ASUS ENGTX480/2DI/1536MD5 Geforce GTX 480 Fermi 1536MB GDDR5 PCI Expre
ASUS ENGTX480/2DI/1536MD5 Geforce GTX 480 Fermi 1536MB GDDR5 PCI Express x16 (2.0v) Video Card Retail.

Add to Shopping List

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Asus from RipBoomLie!


Also on google if you search the PNY part #:

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New Products - Mwave.com - Buy Computer Hardware, Software ...PNY VCGGTX480XPB GeForce GTX 480 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x 16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card. SKU: BD11358 Mfg. Part No: VCGGTX480XPB ...
www.mwave.com/mwave/Viewproductgrid.asp?PID=newp - Cached

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The price is cut off and google's cache fails to show the product, though.

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Originally Posted by Sly Fox

That's probably true.

But sadly after trying out both 2x 3870's and a 3870X2 back in the day I just can't deal with multi-GPU BS anymore. :ROTF:

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I tried 2x 8800GT 512's for a few and found it to not be consistently better enough for me at the time to be worth the extra cash... then again I ran 1680x1050 back then as well. I'm not a fan of multi-GPU setups, myself, but I'd be tempted by one if I had the extra cash to splurge on 2x 480's... don't think I'd actually do it, but the temptation would be great.

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Originally Posted by 96redformula

Wouldn't a 2x2GB 5990 or whatever it will be called be the king?

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That's probably true.

But sadly after trying out both 2x 3870's and a 3870X2 back in the day I just can't deal with multi-GPU BS anymore. :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

Seems the $549 price is accurate. Go to google shopping search, type in "gtx480" and see what pops up...



Asus from RipBoomLie!

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Zipzoomfly always does this when using froogle price search, they always "leak" the prices to us first :) .

No listing for gtx470 yet though :(

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Originally Posted by trinibwoy

My problem is the meagre bandwidth increase over the 285 - 12%. And in terms of SLI well when we're talking about < 20 fps does it matter?

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Well let's see Crysis 2560x goes from 19 fps (not playable) to 37.5 (playable) then Metro 2033 from 18 fps to 31 fps....

One thing is pretty clear new titles with more effects and DX11 will only have higher demand on GPU if I hadn't gotten GTX 280 SLI for my 30" Nov 08 I'd have had to upgrade already to keep playable framerates. By going SLI with GTX 480 I should have a longer time in between upgrades and not only will it be more enjoyable but either save me money or be close to break even. Remember there is a used market you can sell them when you upgrade.

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

Seems the $549 price is accurate. Go to google shopping search, type in "gtx480" and see what pops up...



Asus from RipBoomLie!


Also on google if you search the PNY part #:



The price is cut off and google's cache fails to show the product, though.




I tried 2x 8800GT 512's for a few and found it to not be consistently better enough for me at the time to be worth the extra cash... then again I ran 1680x1050 back then as well.

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Nice so I got it for $522 shipped from pc super store! They also said $549 but you got a discount for pre ordering!

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Originally Posted by Trigger5521

I'm with ya...just a little disappointed that I won't be able to use the display port on the 3008WFP.

I'd like to see 470 #'s in SLI. If they are halfway decent it's a more attractive option for me as I can use my current power supply. I REALLY don't want to rewire my system, I spent retarded hours on wire management.

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Same here I have my display port cable in a drawer and was excited to finally use it and disappointed / surprised not to see it as spec of the new cards. However there was mention that some board partners might choose to add one on it is up to them. However the display port is really designed for future needs and if I'm not mistaken there is zero image difference from current dual link DVI to display port.

I would expect that you'll also see 80-90% on the 470 SLI remember it is about the support both in the drivers and game so if you see that much out of the 480 SLI you should expect to see the same or more.

I've had Crysis since it was released and refused to play it at anything less than max settings 2560x so it was shelved (since I knew MP wasn't active anyway) to see it from 19fps to 37.5fps and that's with AA, at 2560x AA becomes less important if you need some extra FPSes.

Let me see here 19fps to 37.5fps = 97%..... That's why you do SLI

Metro 2033 18 to 31 = 72% and I'd bet drivers increase this % but 72% is very respectable. Makes the game playable at 2560x

Take those GTX 470 cards and add on the same % gains for SLI, I'm betting that's what you'll see.

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Originally Posted by Sushi Warrior

You know, it does make you feel good to see things that agree with your opinion (studies have shown this) so if you are pre-dispositioned towards Nvidia it physically (well, mentally I guess) makes you genuinely feel good to see benchmarks/reviews saying Fermi is better. You don't even have to be a fanboi, you just need to have some hope/want for Fermi to perform well.

And most of these leaks are not matching up, all I can really say is wait just a day or two.

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Basic psychology. No one wants to believe in something wrong.

Can't wait for some independent/verified reviews

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Originally Posted by Chumbucket843

i cant really make up data that they dont give me. i just assume that people realize that it could be fake or manipulated. the criteria for games were dx11 and newer gpu heavy games. out of the 8 games i chose to use 4 could not be maxed out by the gtx480.

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Not attacking you at all, just attacking the idea that it's definitive. I put about as much stock in PR slides as

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Originally Posted by annihilat0r

Sure I agree that "across the board" performance summaries don't mean much when deciding to buy a video card. But I am talking about them (and have calculated those scores) because there had been a lot of talk regarding how faster than 5870 it would be generally. Charlie said 5%, some other guy 25%, someone 15%, someone 40% etc.

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I've always held that a 15-25% average range is the most likely, given that we know that it's < 10% in some games, and > 40% in some games due to architecture etc.

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But you're right in that if Charlie wanted to, he could cherry pick settings, games and scenarios to make himself correct. So could pretty much everyone (remember Nvidia says a 8600gt can be faster than HD5870 lol), but these good selection of games I think would allow for a generalized "this card is better than that card generally % something, at this resolution and settings" statement.

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It's a good selection, but again, Nvidia PR's going to make sure just the right amount / game results are in there to massage the data in their favor. After all, you'd probably be fired if you chose what made it 15% rather than 25%!

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What I meant was that the resolutions weren't cherry picked from game to game. There are numbers for 1920+4xAA, 1920+8xAA, 2560+4xAA and 2560+8xAA (the only settings a Fermi buyer should care about) for pretty much every game in the benchmark, and in some of those resolutions HD5870 performs a lot better compared to other resolutions, but these weren't omitted and a lot of data was presented whether it favored Nvidia or not.

Anyway, if these benchmarks are fake I'll have a good laugh at this discussion :D

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You're right that theres no point in comparing this card at < 1920x1200 resolution

Again though, at what settings? And how does that mesh with your statement that the settings were against Nvidia?

If Fermi is as new an architecture as everyone says, then the fact that Nvidia didn't do as well with high AA and resolution scaling as in the past compared to ATI is irrelevant (not to mention, at higher resolutions/textures, the memory advantage should actually favor Nvidia).

And the reason I question settings is also that they don't prove any methodology.

For instance... we know that AA can't be enabled in-game in Batman:AA and yet, these slides show 4xAA settings. So did they force it through CCC (known to be brute forced and thus slower)? So what does that say about other benches? Same for those Unigine slides we saw, where they picked "40% faster" at the extreme tesselation scenes etc.

And yeah, I'd have a good laugh if these were all fake anyways, but either way, the #'s should be out in a few days!

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Same here I have my display port cable in a drawer and was excited to finally use it and disappointed / surprised not to see it as spec of the new cards. However there was mention that some board partners might choose to add one on it is up to them. However the display port is really designed for future needs and if I'm not mistaken there is zero image difference from current dual link DVI to display port.

I would expect that you'll also see 80-90% on the 470 SLI remember it is about the support both in the drivers and game so if you see that much out of the 480 SLI you should expect to see the same or more.

I've had Crysis since it was released and refused to play it at anything less than max settings 2560x so it was shelved (since I knew MP wasn't active anyway) to see it from 19fps to 37.5fps and that's with AA, at 2560x AA becomes less important if you need some extra FPSes.

Let me see here 19fps to 37.5fps = 97%..... That's why you do SLI

Metro 2033 18 to 31 = 72% and I'd bet drivers increase this % but 72% is very respectable. Makes the game playable at 2560x

Take those GTX 470 cards and add on the same % gains for SLI, I'm betting that's what you'll see.

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Not to rain on the multi-GPU parade, but I tend to not hold PR numbers on multi-GPU scaling too high in esteem (after all, what's better than selling ONE card to a person? Making them buy TWO!)... we've seen it before with ATI's CF numbers (like ZOMG 80% scaling!!!) but in reality, it was more in the 40-50ish% range if that

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Originally Posted by Blacky

I think its safe to say that ATi 5970 is the new G80, meaning that those who bought (like G80 users did) one made the best long time investment in gpu hardware.

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Not really. The G80 was a single gpu and the 5970 isn't. Not really a fair comparison.

But in terms of the 5870, it is true to an extent. 6 months with no competition and we'll wait and see with Fermi if it continues that way. At any case i still think a 1GHz core with 5870 should be close to the 480. Great card esp with the features.

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Originally Posted by takamishanoku

Not really. The G80 was a single gpu and the 5970 isn't. Not really a fair comparison.

But in terms of the 5870, it is true to an extent. 6 months with no competition and we'll wait and see with Fermi if it continues that way. At any case i still think a 1GHz core with 5870 should be close to the 480. Great card esp with the features.

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I'm saying as a product not as x2 gpus vs gpu blah blah blah, 5970 still a single card.