Llano vs Sandy Bridge Compute Capacity

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04-27-2011, 04:27 AM
AbortRetryFail?

This thread is killing me ... :rolleyes:

I think a single 'Stars' cpu core in Llano at 4GHz will do around 12.77 GFLOPS.

I think a single 'SB' cpu core (with HT on) at 4GHz will do around 14.44 GFLOPS.

A single 'SB' cpu core (with HT on and AVX) at 4GHz will do around 29.97 GFLOPS.

I have no idea what a single 'Stars' cpu core with AVX/XOP/FMA4 in Llano at 4GHz will do, and will not venture a guess, but I hope its ....

:shocked: GFLOPS ...

just to shut some of you guys up :D
04-27-2011, 04:42 AM
Lanek

Maybe you want make the same calcul with the 2600K Mobile version ? cause actually using Lianno it's really nice .. vs the 2600K the biggest desktop 1155 version vs a poor Liano mobile cpu ... Lianno and SB are not really fighting in the same category... it's a little bit like compare a 2600K with Intel ULV .....
04-27-2011, 04:44 AM
informal

@AbortRetryFail?

Llano doesn't have AVX/XOP/FMA4. That is bulldozer.
04-27-2011, 05:53 AM
god_43

.....can we close this thread yet lol? or move it at least?
04-27-2011, 06:03 AM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

This test has nothing to with cache subsystem at all, it just shows that gpu accelerated apps work on a gpu... :p:

nothing at all? Correct me if I'm wrong but the cache system affects pretty much everything you do on a CPU. Didn't you say sandybridge will see an ipc boost across the board from its improved cache system among other things? ;)

Let's say this test doesn't depend a lot on the cache system...
You're saying yourself that its impressive to see that many threads run on those cpus. Why impressive? Because there is a limitation of resources that need to be rained and shuffled between those tasks, correct? And that has nothing to do with the cache system? Nothing at all? :lol:
Then please tell me, what is a good cache system test?

I agree that the whimpy gpu is the main thing holding Intel back in this test, but it doesn't explain everything...

I gotta say though I'm not impressed at all by some purely synthetic test.. is that the only scenario AMD does well in? : l
04-27-2011, 06:06 AM
AbortRetryFail?

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

@AbortRetryFail?

Llano doesn't have AVX/XOP/FMA4. That is bulldozer.

Here's a thread from a year ago ...

Can Llano do AVX?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=250241

with obligatory fancy pic ...

http://www.chip-architect.com/news/A...o-analysis.jpg

You may well be correct but here's hoping the guys from Sunnyvale can find a way to put those 400 or so shaders to work to boost the Llano compute power.
04-27-2011, 06:10 AM
SEA

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail?

I have no idea what a single 'Stars' cpu core with AVX/XOP/FMA4 in Llano at 4GHz will do, and will not venture a guess, but I hope its ....

Llano will have pretty same as K10.5. Maybe slightly more because of turbo (if there will be turbo).
But Llano's GPU will have hundreds of GFlOps.
04-27-2011, 06:45 AM
kl0012

Ok, if you wonder, the software which was used by AMD is FluidCS11.exe from Direct3D11 samples in DirectX 11 SDK.
Tried it on laptop with i5-2410m and got 4 fps on average with 64k particles. Since HD 3000 does not support DX11 it was software emulated with 100% CPU utilization.
04-27-2011, 06:50 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail?

Here's a thread from a year ago ...

Can Llano do AVX?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=250241

with obligatory fancy pic ...

You may well be correct but here's hoping the guys from Sunnyvale can find a way to put those 400 or so shaders to work to boost the Llano compute power.

Ok once again,Llano does not have AVX or XOP or FMA. What it does have is OpenCL/DX11 supporting discrete class GPU with 400SP. That is plenty of compute power right there.
04-27-2011, 07:08 AM
kl0012

There is another particle simulation test in DX SDK which simulates smoke and uses DX 10.1 instead of DX 11 (SoftParticles.exe)
Ran it on i5-2410m and got 52 fps using HD 3000 gpu (8% cpu utilization) vs. 2 fps when software emulated (100% cpu utilization).
04-27-2011, 08:17 AM
Nikolasz

Quote:

Originally Posted by kl0012

There is another particle simulation test in DX SDK which simulates smoke and uses DX 10.1 instead of DX 11 (SoftParticles.exe)
Ran it on i5-2410m and got 52 fps using HD 3000 gpu (8% cpu utilization) vs. 2 fps when software emulated (100% cpu utilization).

Any links? So we can check this out?
04-27-2011, 08:23 AM
kl0012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikolasz

Any links? So we can check this out?

Download and install DX SDK (june)
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...2-438a3ba730ba

Search for FluidCS11.exe
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...8VS.85%29.aspx
04-27-2011, 08:32 AM
Chumbucket843

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serra

I don't think anyone is talking about endgaming Chess on Llano. Unless your last name is Karpov though I think even the slowest Llano will be more than a match for 99% of people. I hold the #13 position on Facebook chess worldwide [or I did.. I've been gone so long I'm not sure I show up globally anymore] and can attest that my old Core 2 Duo in my laptop is far better than I am (of course, the FB chess ranking system is very broken... I'm really not that good, just good enough to know how much better than me the computer is).

for me, chess engines are great for improving my game. i need to have an opponent that plays extremely accurately. i'm not talking about the starting position but practicing say, mating with a bishop and knight or rook endings. lots of times i will play out the final positions of master games to checkmate. i guess a llano user would not find it all that important, even if they play chess, but chess engine performance is still very important to the game.

i also use them to analyse games of my own as well as master games. it helps understand what is going on, especially with tactics. this is why more younger people are super-gm's today. they can browse through their 4 million game database, find a game, and explore every move and variation with their engine in 30 minutes.

by far the coolest use is this.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6340
04-27-2011, 08:32 AM
Glow9

My dualcore sandy beats my buddys x4 in game load times sooo... yeah.
04-27-2011, 09:12 AM
MrMojoZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glow9

My dualcore sandy beats my buddys x4 in game load times sooo... yeah.

Game load times are more dependent on drive speeds. Why bring this up?
04-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Sherman Tank

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

Game load times are more dependent on drive speeds. Why bring this up?

Because he doesn't know where the bottlenecks are within workloads...
04-27-2011, 10:35 AM
Mechanical Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chumbucket843

for me, chess engines are great for improving my game. i need to have an opponent that plays extremely accurately. i'm not talking about the starting position but practicing say, mating with a bishop and knight or rook endings. lots of times i will play out the final positions of master games to checkmate. i guess a llano user would not find it all that important, even if they play chess, but chess engine performance is still very important to the game.

i also use them to analyse games of my own as well as master games. it helps understand what is going on, especially with tactics. this is why more younger people are super-gm's today. they can browse through their 4 million game database, find a game, and explore every move and variation with their engine in 30 minutes.

by far the coolest use is this.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6340

This is one reason we all should hope for good adoption of AMD Fusion chips. With big userbase, opencl has opportunity to make difference in many applications. Chess, is but one example.
04-27-2011, 11:49 AM
Glow9

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

Game load times are more dependent on drive speeds. Why bring this up?

For online games? Really?
04-27-2011, 04:35 PM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glow9

For online games? Really?

Why would that make a difference?
04-27-2011, 04:40 PM
zanzabar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glow9

For online games? Really?

dose online make the games randomly spawn in ram and not get stored?:D
04-27-2011, 04:47 PM
richierich

lolllllllllllllllll
04-27-2011, 07:21 PM
Manabu

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

Latest video on youtube shows Llano dual core @ 0:48 mark vs Zacate E350.
Mobile Llano has model number A4 3300M and IGP has model number 6480. There is roughly 7 watts of difference under full load so my guess is that Llano is 25W mobile part.
Llano has 50% more GPU compute performance than Zacate,meaning it has roughly 80x1.5=120 SPs. CPU cores are also notably faster,even if they run at 1.6Ghz too.Not a bad tradeoff ,7W more power for 50% better GPU and definitely better pure CPU performance.

No, I think that it is more likely to be 240SPs@~280mhz vs 80SPs@500mhz for E-350. That would explain the higher power efficiency.
04-27-2011, 09:22 PM
Daveburt714

I'm not sure if anyone knows yet, but will it be possible for Llano to use "Side Port" memory instead of just system ram?

To be honest, if this chip does what I think it might, it's really looking good to me... ;)
I'm only hoping here, but if it supports sideport and Hybrid Crossfire (or even better, a more powerful VC that could be throttled down when not needed), it would be the ultimate HTPC chip!
Low power when just doing HTPC things, but still have some nads if you wanted to game on the big screen... :yepp:

I really don't think my usage ideas are that rare. Hopefully AMD see's the potential for this type of application.

Zacate seems fine for a low powered HTPC only rig, but Llano's K10.5 cores are plenty strong enough for gaming and most other uses...

If they get Turbo and power throttling right this seems like a killer settup to me! :up:
04-27-2011, 09:47 PM
qcmadness

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manabu

No, I think that it is more likely to be 240SPs@~280mhz vs 80SPs@500mhz for E-350. That would explain the higher power efficiency.

From what we know now, native dual-core Llano chip is designed to have 160SP. I would expect a ~400MHz iGPU clock.

Ref:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...arter_AMD.html
04-27-2011, 10:47 PM
STEvil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveburt714

I'm not sure if anyone knows yet, but will it be possible for Llano to use "Side Port" memory instead of just system ram?

To be honest, if this chip does what I think it might, it's really looking good to me... ;)
I'm only hoping here, but if it supports sideport and Hybrid Crossfire (or even better, a more powerful VC that could be throttled down when not needed), it would be the ultimate HTPC chip!
Low power when just doing HTPC things, but still have some nads if you wanted to game on the big screen... :yepp:

I really don't think my usage ideas are that rare. Hopefully AMD see's the potential for this type of application.

Zacate seems fine for a low powered HTPC only rig, but Llano's K10.5 cores are plenty strong enough for gaming and most other uses...

If they get Turbo and power throttling right this seems like a killer settup to me! :up:

would be really nice to plug a couple chips of gddr into the motherboard (into a pci-e slot???? hmm...) for quick performance upgrade :)

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