Amd Officially Benches Bulldozer

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Originally Posted by Movieman

And someday I'm going to find a AMD thread where your not there dumping on them..
Oh wait, thats a pipe dream!:rofl:

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Where was i dumping on them movie? I like amd and have owned amd but as i said before i'm a price/performance whore and i just don't see the 8150 providing better results then my current 2500K for the money. If i was into folding or encoding the 8150 would be a sweet setup but all i do is bench, game and watch :banana::banana::banana::banana: and the 2500K owns that segment. :)

Now if the 8150 was 199 or lower then it would slide into view as a great alternative to my current rig but... You knew one was coming... If i was looking to build on October 12th and had to choose between a 2500K and a 8150 i'd have to weigh the options...

Price - Pretty even
Upgradability - AM3+ is pretty much a dead socket where 1155 has IB coming

Even if you were a die hard Amd fan. Would you really go the Amd route when you know 22nm Goodness is coming in 5 months?

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

Come on Muz. You think someone took the hours to fake them ALL? I think they're accurate.

For the past 6 months i expected the 8150 to beat the 2600K in Multithreaded apps and get killed in Gaming which is what i see here. I also have to point out the 980X runs at 3.3Ghz with a 3.6Ghz turbo and the 8150 runs at 3.6Ghz with a 4.2Ghz turbo.

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I don't know about the accuracy. I haven't got all the details, as none of us do. We will just have to wait and see, don't we. But as i said, what we seen before this, was nowhere near the perf we see in these slides(or so called slides :D).
If those slides are true, I do believe that when we get our retail chips from shops, we will be able to tweak our systems further, you know, higher clocked ram, NB all that stuff :) And then there is clocking them to sky high :) remember chew's remarks about clock potential :)
One thing I know they will not be dull, and they will not be barcelona

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

Where was i dumping on them movie? I like amd and have owned amd but as i said before i'm a price/performance whore and i just don't see the 8150 providing better results then my current 2500K for the money. If i was into folding or encoding the 8150 would be a sweet setup but all i do is bench, game and watch :banana::banana::banana::banana: and the 2500K owns that segment. :)

Now if the 8150 was 199 or lower then it would slide into view as a great alternative to my current rig but... You knew one was coming... If i was looking to build on October 12th and had to choose between a 2500K and a 8150 i'd have to weigh the options...

Price - Pretty even
Upgradability - AM3+ is pretty much a dead socket where 1155 has IB coming

Even if you were a die hard Amd fan. Would you really go the Amd route when you know 22nm Goodness is coming in 5 months?

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Then I will apologise but lets say I noticed a tone from you in more than one AMD thread and that is what brought my comment
Now as to you from your sig:
2500K @ 5Ghz 1.40v - Hyper 212+
Asus MIVE
EVGA GTX 470's in TRI
AX1200
Why the hell do you want to upgrade?
Your current, good gear, no need.
Save your money for the next round.

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

Come on Muz. You think someone took the hours to fake them ALL? I think they're accurate.

For the past 6 months i expected the 8150 to beat the 2600K in Multithreaded apps and get killed in Gaming which is what i see here. I also have to point out the 980X runs at 3.3Ghz with a 3.6Ghz turbo and the 8150 runs at 3.6Ghz with a 4.2Ghz turbo.

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Where is this "killed in gaming" you are seeing here?

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Originally Posted by Movieman

Then I will apologise but lets say I noticed a tone from you in more than one AMD thread and that is what brought my comment
Now as to you from your sig:
2500K @ 5Ghz 1.40v - Hyper 212+
Asus MIVE
EVGA GTX 470's in TRI
AX1200
Why the hell do you want to upgrade?
Your current, good gear, no need.
Save your money for the next round.

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No need to apologize at all bro. Why would i want to upgrade? I love to waste money :ROTF: and if i don't spend it my fiance will. ;)

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Originally Posted by jimbo75

Where is this "killed in gaming" you are seeing here?

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Gaming results were with a pair of 6790's. Can you say gpu bottleneck?

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

We haven't heard it is shipping because we don't have desktop JF among us ;)
I guess it would be safe to say that with those boxes of Interlagos to Cray, there were some smaller boxes going to some of the Desktop builders ;) Or at least to some regional warehouses(if AMD has such things).

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And I also heard from some NDA-signer(they indeed have ES chips)one month ago, that release is on September, now it becoming pipe dream.

When you go over these cases that happened in the past few months you can find a lot of bullshxt, maybe they were not lying, even when their statements are conflicting each other, even the slides themselves are 'ever true'. But now, I regard these all as obsolete one just like those rediculous roadmap, changing frequently.

I don't know what amd is doing, seems they are trying hard to broadcasting the launch is 'coming soon', but what they really prepared is not, instead they're keeping silent with some slides and roadmap spreading out.

Now just wait, if we cannot receive the Zambezi shipping news in upcoming weeks, there will be a serious case, that AMD is intentionally lying to the whole world including some insiders.

undone, I didn't say they are launching in September, and I am one of those who don't believe in September launch. But I do believe(and that's my opinion) that FX chips shipped or are going to be in very short time.
And stop with all the moaning about how AMD does not tell everything to you :)

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Originally Posted by Movieman

Then I will apologise but lets say I noticed a tone from you in more than one AMD thread and that is what brought my comment
Now as to you from your sig:
2500K @ 5Ghz 1.40v - Hyper 212+
Asus MIVE
EVGA GTX 470's in TRI
AX1200
Why the hell do you want to upgrade?
Your current, good gear, no need.
Save your money for the next round.

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Because he was never going to upgrade? His "upgrade" and "I have owned an AMD processor in the past" are his excuses to beat down on every AMD benchmark that shows up. He is only here to amuse himself at every benchmark that shows his Intel system being faster than AMD's new processors. Or am I the only one noticing this?

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

Gaming results were with a pair of 6790's. Can you say gpu bottleneck?

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And your explanation for this slide is?

http://img.donanimhaber.com/images/h...1a_dh_fx57.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Because he was never going to upgrade? His "upgrade" and "I have owned an AMD processor in the past" are his excuses to beat down on every AMD benchmark that shows up. He is only here to amuse himself at every benchmark that shows his Intel system being faster than AMD's new processors. Or am I the only one noticing this?

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He does come across like that and some people who have just bought a 2500K system wouldn't want the AMD to be faster after just forking out.
Its very common across forums and i have found that when there is a big moaner its seems too be 2500K user.

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

Gaming results were with a pair of 6790's. Can you say gpu bottleneck?

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Where did you see the system configuration? And GPU bottleneck at 19x10?? Really?

Greate.. the most interesting slides 30-32 are not up....

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

Greate.. the most interesting slides 30-32 are not up....

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My thoughts exactly ... And why didn't they list which model number from FX lineup was used for compute intensive apps?? All other slides (ie. gaming) have model numbers on them,for both intel and AMD. For compute ones they put juts "FX",no model number at all... Can be FX8150 of course,but we don't know since system configuration slide from "back up" deck is missing.

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

undone, I didn't say they are launching in September, and I am one of those who don't believe in September launch.

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September fade away, now do you believe October launch? ;)

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And stop with all the moaning about how AMD does not tell everything to you :)

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Not everything, but anything.:mad:

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Because he was never going to upgrade? His "upgrade" and "I have owned an AMD processor in the past" are his excuses to beat down on every AMD benchmark that shows up. He is only here to amuse himself at every benchmark that shows his Intel system being faster than AMD's new processors. Or am I the only one noticing this?

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So you know this for a fact how? I didn't know we had mind readers on his forum and ill gladly provide pics of former systems if you need absolute proof. Let me pose a question to you since you seem like the typical whiny Amd fan. Why are you so butthurt over intel and its owners? I can't remember intel fans being like this when Amd was on top during the crapburst days.

why do you want he's an AMD fanboy ?

I think AMD will launch just before the new year shopping season,would make most sense,things are moving slow atm.

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Originally Posted by undone

September fade away, now do you believe October launch? ;)



Not everything, but anything.:mad:

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I myself would be glad to get this CPU before xmas. Nothing else. I would love to replace my thuban with something new and more exciting, but I have other things to do in life, thus I can wait ;)

Bla Bla

http://www.nordichardware.se/images/...ulldozer_4.jpg


http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2933/scaling.png


this my test

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6...11564bitoc.png

cold2010 and the point of that picture is what exactly? We do know how 2600K performs ,there are million of reviews. Note the thread title,it's about FX Bulldozer,not Sandy Bridge. Thanks.

COLD :D:D

Ryūjin Jakka

Wonder if intel will throw out a 4core HT SB at a 200€ price point, would be right between 2500 and 2600. Considering that it seems (for now) the new top AMD cpu aims for that spot.

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Originally Posted by informal

cold2010 and the point of that picture is what exactly? We do know how 2600K performs ,there are million of reviews. Note the thread title,it's about FX Bulldozer,not Sandy Bridge. Thanks.

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The pic holds the Intel numbers to compare to the Bulldozer numbers right on top.

Looks kosher to me.

Putting them all into one neat table might be nicer.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

The pic holds the Intel numbers to compare to the Bulldozer numbers right on top.

Looks kosher to me.

Putting them all into one neat table might be nicer.

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just needs a power used comparisons. imo

I hope those numbers get better, time will tell.

Some guys noticed that amd ran an OPENCL BENCHMARK with FMA4 INSTRUCTION SET.

http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/...onuclari_8.htm


My knowledge telling me, accelerate opencl with any instruction set is MIRACLE.

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Originally Posted by undone

Some guys noticed that amd ran an OPENCL BENCHMARK with FMA4 INSTRUCTION SET.

http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/...onuclari_8.htm


My knowledge telling me, accelerate opencl with any instruction set is MIRACLE.

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Please, can you elaborate?

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Originally Posted by Lokinhow

Please, can you elaborate?

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Maybe he does not know OpenCL can be run on CPU too...

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Originally Posted by jimbo75

Where is this "killed in gaming" you are seeing here?

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well the way i see it if its only just beating a 4 core chip like the 2500k in multithreaded tasks with its 8 cores then its performance vs 2500k in games that only make use of 1-4 cores will be about half

the only way those charts could turn out to show bd is better at gaming is if the reason it beats the 2500k and not the 2600k is due to the extra 4 cores scaling much the same or worse than ht over the first 4 cores but this seems unlikely

so im realy hopeing those charts are a load of crap or this cpu may be another dud

that chart showing some odd games performance suggests for some resson crossfire is working better on the amd platform than intel in some cases
if that is the case it may still do ok in games that are gpu bottlnecked when running crossfire and at the moment these games do outway the number of games that are cpu bottlnecked so this could be a fairly good thing

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Originally Posted by dasa

well the way i see it if its only just beating a 4 core chip like the 2500k in multithreaded tasks with its 8 cores then its performance vs 2500k in games that only make use of 1-4 cores will be about half

the only way those charts could turn out to show bd is better at gaming is if the reason it beats the 2500k and not the 2600k is due to the extra 4 cores scaling much the same or worse than ht over the first 4 cores but this seems unlikely

so im realy hopeing those charts are a load of crap or this cpu may be another dud

that chart showing some odd games performance suggests for some resson crossfire is working better on the amd platform than intel in some cases
if that is the case it may still do ok in games that are gpu bottlnecked when running crossfire and at the moment these games do outway the number of games that are cpu bottlnecked so this could be a fairly good thing

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it's a 4 core chip with CMT really, though AMD decided it would be cool to label it an 8 core its more like a 4 core with better scaling than HT.

I saw 5x scaling in VR-Zone cinebench leaks, did anyone else not?

before your edit you made mention of us being lost and really with all the crap thats been posted about bd over the last year+ is it suprising?
hopefully we will soon get a heap of real reviews we can pick threw and become a little less lost

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

Wonder if intel will throw out a 4core HT SB at a 200€ price point, would be right between 2500 and 2600. Considering that it seems (for now) the new top AMD cpu aims for that spot.

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Ouch. 200 (~$270usd) euros? In the US $249 USD can buy a 2600k @ Microcenter.

As for the benchmarks... I find it odd that my 3 year old i7 860 @ 3.6ghz scores 6.23 on Cinebench 11.5.

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Originally Posted by dasa

before your edit you made mention of us being lost and really with all the crap thats been posted about bd over the last year+ is it suprising?
hopefully we will soon get a heap of real reviews we can pick threw and become a little less lost

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It's a brand new architecture, a major change that rivals that of Thunderbird core from the K6IIs. It will have some hickups but it has a long way to go before it is saturated, expect with every stepping and every new revamp a lot of improvements. This is just the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Andrew LB

Ouch. 200 (~$270usd) euros? In the US $249 USD can buy a 2600k @ Microcenter.

As for the benchmarks... I find it odd that my 3 year old i7 860 @ 3.6ghz scores 6.23 on Cinebench 11.5.

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Phenom II 1090T does 7.24 at 4.3Ghz and 8.63 with 4.5Ghz, some tweaking and easy 9+, that is 24/7 machine crunching at the moment at WCG.

Im just waiting for end of... to release some benchmarks on Zambezi, no idea if its same as retail sample.

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Originally Posted by dasa

before your edit you made mention of us being lost and really with all the crap thats been posted about bd over the last year+ is it suprising?
hopefully we will soon get a heap of real reviews we can pick threw and become a little less lost

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Yes, I did...though I came off quite rude so the edit was necessary.

But yes, there is so much misleading info and so many numbers pulled from thin air it's rediculous. People like you (no offense!) and others are trying to read all these made up numbers and make sense out of it.

For example we had people talking about how low BD single thread performance is by dividing Cinebench by 8.

I think those leaked slides from AMD actually indicate good performance for zambezi bulldozer. I don't see there being a performance or price problem for AMD.

the problem is that they are a year late. the x58 system compared in the slides is about to be replaced. the current sandy bridge chips are 6 months from being replaced.

I don't question anymore if AMD will compete well with bulldozer. I question if they will compete well for longer than a few months. ONLY time will tell. the wait for piledriver begins.

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Originally Posted by BeepBeep2

Yes, I did...though I came off quite rude so the edit was necessary.

But yes, there is so much misleading info and so many numbers pulled from thin air it's rediculous. People like you (no offense!) and others are trying to read all these made up numbers and make sense out of it.

For example we had people talking about how low BD single thread performance is by dividing Cinebench by 8.

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none taken i can agree with that :)

Is anybody ever running any "normal" benchmarks anymore?

I mean if I want to link a 200 object file C++ shared library I use no MMX or SSE instructions, I don't multithread, I just wait like an idiot. I think it's sad that pretty much all the benchmarking we have seen for Bulldozer and Sandy Bridge before is just deliberately pointing at a single trick this pony does better and then brings forward performance numbers that are completely unreproducible for anything anybody in the real world does.

Just running cinebench single-threaded would be a huge advantage. As has been pointed out, dividing a result by number of cores in a CPU as complex as bulldozer with all kinds of shared caches, buses and other resources, and god knows how each of these access RAM under what conditions, is nothing short of useless.

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Originally Posted by rintamarotta

Phenom II 1090T does 7.24 at 4.3Ghz and 8.63 with 4.5Ghz, some tweaking and easy 9+, that is 24/7 machine crunching at the moment at WCG.

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Exactly my point. Don't those scores seem strangely low considering the chip has 8 cores. I would have expected scores at least 30% higher when compared clock/clock with a Phenom x6 considering the supposedly better architecture and 2 extra cores. If it were only a single leaked slide, I probably would have said they were fake, but the quantity of slides leads me to believe they're legit.

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Originally Posted by Mechanical Man

Maybe he does not know OpenCL can be run on CPU too...

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Run on CPU but with no instruction set support, otherwise it won't be called OPENCL. But I could be wrong, compiling opencl with any instruction set seems impossible.

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Originally Posted by undone

Run on CPU but with no instruction set support, otherwise it won't be called OPENCL. But I could be wrong, compiling opencl with any instruction set seems impossible.

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No, that OPEN just means that the standard is OPEN, anyone can write implementation of it. That would be just very stupid that you could not write software with instructions giving lot of performance.

Limited GPU :rofl:

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7190/30396861.jpg

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1104/59666881.jpg

HD 6870 AND 1920X1080 LOL :D

yeah, looks like AMD was taken over buy some 8 year old kid :( IF those are real ;)
One thing is use 6870 GPU, but another thing is using $170 GPU with $1k CPU. I would have thought that kid buying a system with $1k CPU would afford to get himself two 6990s or 590s :/

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Originally Posted by undone

Run on CPU but with no instruction set support, otherwise it won't be called OPENCL. But I could be wrong, compiling opencl with any instruction set seems impossible.

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AMD has it's own OpenCL ICD for both GPU's and CPU's. This means they can and already did implement Bulldozer XOP and FMA4 extensions to extract more performance of the CPU path.
OpenCL ICD does exactly same job as OpenGL ICD, catches OpenCL commands and translates them to target numerator being it optimized CPU path or GPU path.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by cold2010

Limited GPU :rofl:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1104/59666881.jpg

HD 6870 AND 1920X1080 LOL :D

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Well its was clear form the first slide that it was gpu limited.. but using a HD6870.. come on... also using doubled priced memory for the intel system.. wut?

then i don't really understand how the cinebench score can be so low, when the Wprime 32 a lot faster of the 2600K..

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Originally Posted by Lanek

then i don't really understand how the cinebench score can be so low, when the Wprime 32 a lot faster of the 2600K..

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The WPrime score seems low for the 2600K, the % difference between the 2500K and 2600K should be 40+%:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...ridge-review/7
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...ssors_review/3

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Originally Posted by cold2010

Limited GPU :rofl:

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If you want to test the CPU on heavy loads, thats how it is done. You need to cut FPS numbers with a slower GPU on areas where FPS are high (where there isn't much work done to process the image)

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Originally Posted by gosh

If you want to test the CPU on heavy loads, thats how it is done. You need to cut FPS numbers with a slower GPU on areas where FPS are high (where there isn't much work done to process the image)

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and the slide clearly says to spend more on graphics with the money you save, so they couldnt max that out

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Limited GPU

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:D:rofl::D

Attachment 120499

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

yeah, looks like AMD was taken over buy some 8 year old kid :( IF those are real ;)
One thing is use 6870 GPU, but another thing is using $170 GPU with $1k CPU. I would have thought that kid buying a system with $1k CPU would afford to get himself two 6990s or 590s :/

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Look at the quote "Save your money or invest in an additional..."

I think they want to promote graphics in that slide.

We can conclude that if they are real, person who made them was clearly not thinking :/

Both the AMD and the Intel systems compared in that slide had the same GPU (Radeon 6870). I think their point was with everything else fairly similar, the different CPU does not affect the games much at all, and since the AMD is much cheaper, why not go that route instead? I don't think it has anything to do with total CPU performance, just relative to that particular application.

And as to the comment "If you can afford that CPU surely you can afford X GPU setup" - maybe not, because by the time you buy that CPU you might not have any money left :p:

Just trying to make some sense of the slides, and a little confused why everyone is throwing a fit over them - particularly the person who edited the pic with all the "LOLZ IDIOTS!!!" comments (makes himself to look more like a "dumb 15 year old kid" than anything else).

Or maybe I'm just not awake yet and am totally missing something.

Sparky, when comparing cpu effect you can use intels 2500K or even 2100 with 6870 vs some 4-6 core FX, and you will have same results, except this time the wouldn't be that stupid difference in prices.
I know everyone does these kinda tricks, but not at this magnitude. You can be silly a little bit and cheat in some components but not like this :)

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

Sparky, when comparing cpu effect you can use intels 2500K or even 2100 with 6870 vs some 4-6 core FX, and you will have same results, except this time the wouldn't be that stupid difference in prices.
I know everyone does these kinda tricks, but not at this magnitude. You can be silly a little bit and cheat in some components but not like this :)

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indeed,
if you wanted, you could probably find games where a Celeron g530 can achieve the same performance as the "FX" in these GPU limited scenarios quite easily....

in my eyes this is only making AMD and the FX look bad, they should be comparing it to the similarly priced SBs on gaming, if that's what they want (compare CPUs when CPUs are not making the difference), or they should also use the 980x on their multi threaded comparison...

anyway, considering that the FX should scale much better than a CPU with HT, these multithreaded benchmarks on the slides are probably telling us that the FX will struggle to compete with SB in CPU limited gaming and many other 1-4 threads tasks.... so I wouldn't be surprised to see a cheaper i3 2100 beating the FX in many games, so AMD claiming a hugely lower cost for the same gaming performance looks really..... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

Sparky, when comparing cpu effect you can use intels 2500K or even 2100 with 6870 vs some 4-6 core FX, and you will have same results, except this time the wouldn't be that stupid difference in prices.
I know everyone does these kinda tricks, but not at this magnitude. You can be silly a little bit and cheat in some components but not like this :)

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These slides are probably not made for xtreme members. How many out there knows what a CPU is?

and perhaps the purpose of these slides was to show total system performance at a given price point yes?:D
Saying maybe that" We can match the other guys without having to spend the BIG money on that monster $1000.00 cpu
or if your budget has the money to include that monster cpu why not go this way and add a second vid card with that extra money.
That's how I read these slides.
Of course, what the hell do I know about gaming:p:

Movieman, nothing? :D
But then again, if you have so much money for $1k CPU you can spend less on even cheaper intel cpu and have the same results.
Anyway, I expressed my opinions on this matter, I will shut up now :D

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

Movieman, nothing? :D
But then again, if you have so much money for $1k CPU you can spend less on even cheaper intel cpu and have the same results.
Anyway, I expressed my opinions on this matter, I will shut up now :D

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Yes and no issues..Opinions will vary and all are welcome.
What I see here is that now on the lets call it the normal dollar range there are choices that weren't available a few months back.
Like I said in another thread, this will be a good year for all of us as both companies are bringing out excellent products.:up:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

<..>
What I see here is that now on the lets call it the normal dollar range there are choices that weren't available a few months back.
Like I said in another thread, this will be a good year for all of us as both companies are bringing out excellent products.:up:

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Agreed :)

It is indeed stupid to use a 6870 to present CPU limitations on gaming benchmarks. But then again I expect nothing less from PR slides.
As to being fake, I am not sure, but if Bulldozer lands between 2500k and 2600k overall I would not call that fail. Fail would be slower or equal to 1100T.

There will be room to develop this new core. I see most of its weakness being IPC performance, with the proper tweaks it can improve greatly.

I spent this much money (1000$) on a CPU once and felt like a complete fool after doing so, since I like many others OC for fun, and most of all to save money for other parts as Movieman says.

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

It is indeed stupid to use a 6870 to present CPU limitations on gaming benchmarks. But then again I expect nothing less from PR slides.
As to being fake, I am not sure, but if Bulldozer lands between 2500k and 2600k overall I would not call that fail. Fail would be slower or equal to 1100T.

There will be room to develop this new core. I see most of its weakness being IPC performance, with the proper tweaks it can improve greatly.

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Well we haven't seen many facts till now...

How about clock to clock comparison between all available cpus
How high can i go on the FX with air/water cooling (extreme cooling is another topic ;) )

I am waiting for full reviews before making any further statements.

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

Sparky, when comparing cpu effect you can use intels 2500K or even 2100 with 6870 vs some 4-6 core FX, and you will have same results, except this time the wouldn't be that stupid difference in prices.
I know everyone does these kinda tricks, but not at this magnitude. You can be silly a little bit and cheat in some components but not like this :)

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See, I KNEW I was missing something. Dumb not-yet-awake posts :hitself:

Remember all, these slides are ment for people who are clueless about GPU or CPU limitations.

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Originally Posted by accord99

The WPrime score seems low for the 2600K, the % difference between the 2500K and 2600K should be 40+%:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...ridge-review/7
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...ssors_review/3

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The difference in the HardOcp link is 29%, so far away from 40%+

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Originally Posted by flyck

The difference in the HardOcp link is 29%, so far away from 40%+

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The proper way to calculate how much faster the 2600k is versus the 2500k and compare with the values given in the slide, is for the 2500k time to be divided by 2600k time. This leads to the 2600k being 42.6% faster.

Then you say the 2500 is 42.6% slower. But when the baseline is the 2500 you say the 2600 is 29% faster. In those slides the baseline is 2500 so in that relation the 2600 is 29% faster. If the baseline was the 2600 the 2500 would be 42.6% below that.

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Originally Posted by flyck

Then you say the 2500 is 42.6% slower. But when the baseline is the 2500 you say the 2600 is 29% faster. In those slides the baseline is 2500 so in that relation the 2600 is 29% faster. If the baseline was the 2600 the 2500 would be 42.6% below that.

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Because the WPrime score is given in seconds and where lower is better, you use the inverse of what you are suggesting. Or you can think of it this way, the 2500K does 32M digits in 10.37 seconds, or the equivalent of 3.086 million digits per second. The 2600K does 4.4 million digits per second or 42.6% more work (faster) than the 2500K.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flyck

Then you say the 2500 is 42.6% slower. But when the baseline is the 2500 you say the 2600 is 29% faster. In those slides the baseline is 2500 so in that relation the 2600 is 29% faster. If the baseline was the 2600 the 2500 would be 42.6% below that.

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I have no intention to enter discussion about the topic but only touch the graph representation

if the graph wish to show longer bar represent better performance, and the data from other site such as http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...ssors_review/3 using shorter representing faster, they could be converted by simply invert them

2500K - 10.37s - 0.09643 (1/10.37)
2600K - 7.27s - 0.1376

if 2500K is normalized to 1
then
2500k = 0.09643/0.09643 = 1
2600 = 0.1376/0.09643 = 1.427

so in terms the bar representation, 2600K should be at 143%

A little question about FMA4 and XOP instructions set ( AVX-AMD Intel use FMA3 and not the same AVX ( no XOP )... Can thoses different instruction set have an impact somewhere if the software, or codes, use a specific compiler ( from intel or AMD ).

I think specially on some synthetic benchmarks as SandraSys, where the benchmarks use FMA and AVX instructions, but i think we can count easely see them in "real " appliccations. Otherwise, does the softwares code need be updated or optimised taking in count thoses different instructions set ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accord99

Because the WPrime score is given in seconds and where lower is better, you use the inverse of what you are suggesting. Or you can think of it this way, the 2500K does 32M digits in 10.37 seconds, or the equivalent of 3.086 million digits per second. The 2600K does 4.4 million digits per second or 42.6% more work (faster) than the 2500K.

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Just to formalize what you two are at: :)

• Speedup = Time_Old / Time_New
• Time = CPI * Instr_in_prog / Clk_freq
  (CPI = cycles per instruction, the inverse of IPC)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lanek

A little question about FMA4 and XOP instructions set ( AVX-AMD Intel use FMA3 and not the same AVX ( no XOP )... Can thoses different instruction set have an impact somewhere if the software, or codes, use a specific compiler ( from intel or AMD ).

I think specially on some synthetic benchmarks as SandraSys, where the benchmarks use FMA and AVX instructions, but i think we can count easely see them in "real " appliccations. Otherwise, does the softwares code need be updated or optimised taking in count thoses different instructions set ?

---

To start from the beginning, additions to the ISA are will most-always require updates to the compiler and hence re-compile of the code. By using an applicable optimizing compiler (like Intel's ICC or AMD's x86 Open64), just compiling with the new instruction MIGHT be enough to exploit the instruction set well enough, heavily depending on how the original code was written.

I'm not quite an expert when it comes to modern compilers and what commonly is necessary for the programmer to prod at... but in the case of FMA4 (and FMA3), the target programs should at least already be written using intrinsics (a way to express SIMD structures to the compiler) and already have the related operations part of the algorithm. This is more applicable to software using image/signal processing methods.

To summarize, compilers that are updated to use (and hopefully optimize) for the new instructions are all that's needed to use them with your code. However, it's usually the case that the code has to be written (from an algorithmic and somewhat syntax perspective) such that the compiler knows what to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accord99

Because the WPrime score is given in seconds and where lower is better, you use the inverse of what you are suggesting. Or you can think of it this way, the 2500K does 32M digits in 10.37 seconds, or the equivalent of 3.086 million digits per second. The 2600K does 4.4 million digits per second or 42.6% more work (faster) than the 2500K.

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correct.

:shakes: to myself...
:shrug: to my other self..

Seems monday is a day to stay away from the send button.

...where is interlagos, i thought it was being released today?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by god_43

...where is interlagos, i thought it was being released today?

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1st thing, are you trolling?
2nd thing: where did you get this date?
3rd thing: interlagos started shipping not too long ago with release date in q4(it was announced officially by John Fruehe).
4th thing: where do you want to find those interlagos? it's a server CPU. Do you expect to go in into BestBuy and buy one off the shelf?
And finally, who cares when interlagos is released. Main thing is it has shipped and is being validated and fitted into server systems. and those companies will release their systems after platform gets validated.
For all we know AMD could come out and say, we just released interlagos, but it is now not up to us, but for system builders. Would it make any difference to you?
Unless you want to do some freakish calculations and extrapolate FX line up performance out of some 16 core 1.9ghz Interlagos chip with server OS and low clocked DDR3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

1st thing, are you trolling?
2nd thing: where did you get this date?
3rd thing: interlagos started shipping not too long ago with release date in q4(it was announced officially by John Fruehe).
4th thing: where do you want to find those interlagos? it's a server CPU. Do you expect to go in into BestBuy and buy one off the shelf?
And finally, who cares when interlagos is released. Main thing is it has shipped and is being validated and fitted into server systems. and those companies will release their systems after platform gets validated.
For all we know AMD could come out and say, we just released interlagos, but it is now not up to us, but for system builders. Would it make any difference to you?
Unless you want to do some freakish calculations and extrapolate FX line up performance out of some 16 core 1.9ghz Interlagos chip with server OS and low clocked DDR3.

---

WTF kind of response is this? No he isnt trolling, just asking a question. It was around the internet that Sept. 26th was the official launch for Interlagos. Just cause system builds can use it doesnt mean you also cant find the processor at a etailer to buy. I am waiting for one as well for a server I am building. Also, you can use 1600 speed DDR3 which isnt exactly "low clocked" IMO. And you clearly dont even know the models since there is no 1.9GHz model, the slowest speed Interlagos starts at 2.1GHz base with a 2.6GHz turbo. Dont post stupid stuff if you dont know what your talking about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

1st thing, are you trolling?
2nd thing: where did you get this date?
3rd thing: interlagos started shipping not too long ago with release date in q4(it was announced officially by John Fruehe).
4th thing: where do you want to find those interlagos? it's a server CPU. Do you expect to go in into BestBuy and buy one off the shelf?
And finally, who cares when interlagos is released. Main thing is it has shipped and is being validated and fitted into server systems. and those companies will release their systems after platform gets validated.
For all we know AMD could come out and say, we just released interlagos, but it is now not up to us, but for system builders. Would it make any difference to you?
Unless you want to do some freakish calculations and extrapolate FX line up performance out of some 16 core 1.9ghz Interlagos chip with server OS and low clocked DDR3.

---

WTF kind of response is this? No he isnt trolling, just asking a question. It was around the internet that Sept. 26th was the official launch for Interlagos. Just cause system builds can use it doesnt mean you also cant find the processor at a etailer to buy. I am waiting for one as well for a server I am building. Also, you can use 1600 speed DDR3 which isnt exactly "low clocked" IMO. And you clearly dont even know the models since there is no 1.9GHz model, the slowest speed Interlagos starts at 2.1GHz base with a 2.6GHz turbo. Dont post stupid stuff if you dont know what your talking about.

hahahaha, theres lots of people around here who use server chips, and some of those people are Mods.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EniGmA1987

WTF kind of response is this? No he isnt trolling, just asking a question. It was around the internet that Sept. 26th was the official launch for Interlagos. Just cause system builds can use it doesnt mean you also cant find the processor at a etailer to buy. I am waiting for one as well for a server I am building. Also, you can use 1600 speed DDR3 which isnt exactly "low clocked" IMO. And you clearly dont even know the models since there is no 1.9GHz model, the slowest speed Interlagos starts at 2.1GHz base with a 2.6GHz turbo. Dont post stupid stuff if you dont know what your talking about.

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I have subscribed to couple of threads about BD in here and few threads in other forums, and I think in all of them someone asked the same question like god_43 asked: '...where is interlagos, i thought it was being released today?' or 'any news about interlagos???? I thought it was scheduled to be released today?'. If you are waiting for interlagos, why not subscribe to AMDs server blog? John had a blog post few weeks ago stating that it has shipped and release is some time in q4. Heck even every possible IT website had an article about that. So where have you or god_43 or any other person who asked it in the other threads been? Under the rock? Thus my question about trolling.
I know about the DDR3 speeds, but most probably in the beginning you won't see systems fitted with 1600Mhz ram. and if you do, that ram will be like cas 10 or something of the kind. While FX chips can be fitted with high speed low latency 2000+Mhz ram. And 1.9ghz was just used as a number. So again, extrapolating FX performance out of interlagos is wrong.
So do you need any more stupid answers about things I have no idea what I am talking about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

hahahaha, theres lots of people around here who use server chips, and some of those people are Mods.

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Yes I don't doubt that, but most of them care to look up some news section of any IT website or even of this forum and not ask some interesting questions about it.

if all people did was read all news from all sites, it would take forever to sift through it all for the relevant parts,
forums exist to provide all the information together and let humans trade the interesting parts with each other.

also theres lots of crap out there and not everyone knows which sources are good or bad. most posts i make are questions because i see something missing in information provided that i feel is important. if someone thought it was being released today, they have every right to ask if it actually was. i remember when the "ember 13th" was the latest piece of info, and it was identified on a different forum, in a different country, where the slide originated from. until that was shown i had no idea what it meant.

haha, so there is no crap in this thread or any other BD thread out there in internets??? Am I the only one here thinking that forums need some filters to filter bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: in threads? :D Any BD thread out there spreads like wildfire. Just try writing a comment, and by the time you finish writing, thread already progressed couple of pages. besides, no one is saying you have to look every website up to find what you want. All you need is rss feed for one of the pages and you are good, as they tend to copy each other a lot.
And one more thing, as I said, if you are interested in server CPUs it is not hard to subscribe to a feed from either AMD at work blog(better press release page) or intels analog. That way you will get most of the official data, no bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:.
I am not interested in Interlagos as some of you guys here and I have rss feed from their website.

were all asking dumb questions
were all posting crap
and you can get everything you need from RSS feeds

why are you here?

double post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manicdan

were all asking dumb questions
were all posting crap
and you can get everything you need from RSS feeds

why are you here?

---

Please, don't make yourself a victim. I said every BD thread outhere or in any other forum on internet is full of crap.
We are all here because we like this crap, we like to discuss some FUD. We just love speculation threads :) For some other stuff, like facts and normal discussions we go to some other threads where there is actual hardware involved with people who have that hardware ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muziqaz

Please, don't make yourself a victim. I said every BD thread outhere or in any other forum on internet is full of crap.
We are all here because we like this crap, we like to discuss some FUD. We just love speculation threads :) For some other stuff, like facts and normal discussions we go to some other threads where there is actual hardware involved with people who have that hardware ;)

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thats alot of assumptions,
im not trying to be a victim,
we ALL are not here here for crap, infact i would be willing to bet most of us are not. crap comes into a forum because people have to bring it in. and if you actually read BD threads you would see that we try to keep the crap (OBR) out of it,
and your saying that facts are found in other places? as if there are no facts in any BD threads?

can you please avoid all BD threads until its available for public purchase since your not even trying to contribute, thanks.

Hm, yes there are some facts in this or some other BD threads, but they are rare and hard to find. the rest of the stuff is all FUD, and most of the discussions are based from that fud.
And please don't ask me to leave as you and I have different views on contribution and trying ;)

...lol wow, i never realized the power my posts have!?! look at all the back and forth i've caused....with great power; comes great responsibility (i didn't come up with that...)! like others have said, i was just asking a question, i thought that bd server was coming out today...i guess not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by god_43

...lol wow, i never realized the power my posts have!?! look at all the back and forth i've caused....with great power; comes great responsibility (i didn't come up with that...)! like others have said, i was just asking a question, i thought that bd server was coming out today...i guess not.

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I thought it was too but after I saw the replies to your post I thought better not to comment lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

I thought it was too but after I saw the replies to your post I thought better not to comment lol

---

lol.


well looks like most sources point to a mid October launch. it was supposed to be launched in q2, and we are entering q4, i think that it is understandable why some ppl would be upset.

muziqaz i see you trolling again in another BD thread

muziqaz you'r too sensitive, pls calm down:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by god_43

well looks like most sources point to a mid October launch. it was supposed to be launched in q2, and we are entering q4, i think that it is understandable why some ppl would be upset.

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IMHO mid-Oct announcement seems some little unrealistic to me because there isnt any shipping news come out, perhaps they're shipping quietly, perhaps nowaday silicon(B2-G) is not for mass production, we'll confirm in upcoming one or two weeks.

If I made a deal with AMD to deliver me some CPUs, they were late and my business suffered, then I would be upset.

This, naturally, is not the case for 99.999% of the people, so all we can do is wait and have fun speculating. AMD owes us nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbone8ty

muziqaz i see you trolling again in another BD thread

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Where? My last post in this forum was in this thread, as far as I remember. And if you are talking about 'around the corner' comment, well if q3 is around the corner, why is everyone then still moaning about supposed Oct 12 release date of Zambezi of being too far away?

@undone, not really, just of of the questions here sometimes sound very sarcastic.

Let's try to resume:

- Interlagos, Orochi: for what we know and as reported on AMD blog, First Interlagos chips have start to be shipped 1-2 weeks ago, 2 weeks later of what they should normally have be, but they have start be shipped to the company who have order them for computing, servers validation. ( Cray and some other around the world. ). For normal client, well i can believe now all the rest follow the standard chain for this type of Professional cpu. When you will get a launch date, then you will be able to order them. But the first to be supplied are allways the company who sell the complete servers (Dell etc ), not your local retailer. And as we don't have an "official launch date ".
This is not really different of what happend with "Xeon" from Intel...

- Bulldozer: As many reviewers right now speak mid- october in their respective forums post (not in a rumor news in front page ), without give any more precision ( outside... blabla NDA ), i can imagine they have start to be briefed about BD, and im nearly 99% sure some get them allready. ( this pdf slide don't appears like that for nothing ). Will the launch be pushed back again due to GF not able to supply enough chips for a correct launch? maybe....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lanek

Let's try to resume:

- Interlagos, Orochi: for what we know and as reported on AMD blog, First Interlagos chips have start to be shipped 1-2 weeks ago, 2 weeks later of what they should normally have be, [...].

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It started shipping not 1 week ago, it is 3 weeks, since September 07, 2011. So it is not "2 weeks later" but in time ;)

Quote:

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- Bulldozer:

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It is Zambezi in desktop... Bulldozer is core name.

Interlagos : Currently unavailable. Do not order.

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!

:down:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeanjean15

Interlagos : Currently unavailable. Do not order.
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID!
:down:

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Sure. Why would one expect it to be available before announcement???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SEA

Sure. Why would one expect it to be available before announcement???

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Since the first K8's where rolling out of the fabs shopblt has been offering early preorders for unreleased product, intel & amd, it is the norm for them to do preorders...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SEA

Sure. Why would one expect it to be available before announcement???

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Because yesterday it was scheduled to be available early next month .:(