1.6 times faster than RV770 is 160% faster, 60% would be 1.6 times as fast as RV770.
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1.6 times faster than RV770 is 160% faster, 60% would be 1.6 times as fast as RV770.
How can a 60% gain be a fail..? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Specially when the 4800 series is roughly 1 year old. When have you've ever been able to leap through such power over a 17 month period?
If NV manage to get more than 60% perf. improvement out of their new card then a 60% gain for AMD will be a failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
Can't see how this makes any sense :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AKM
its chip size is bigger than the r770, and its on a smaller process, even if its the same exact thing just scaled it should still be 80-120% faster due to how much stuff they can pack into that 300mm2+ chip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
this site has some very basic comparison info for the the 3870 to 4870 jump (just check out the table at the bottom)
http://www.cdrinfo.com/sections/news...x?NewsId=23573
and i like it cause it shows how the size of the 4870 is only 35% bigger, yet offers about double the performance. thats a good jump and hats off to ATI.
I wonder why anyone takes Fuad seriously :)
This is true. Becasuse if NV gets only 60 percent more performance, but still has a giant chip. NV will for money, still be the loser this round.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKM
Wombat, I credit faster 1.60x more to bad grammer than anything. If it was indeed 160% percent faster, the price would certainly be higher and the teraflops wold be higher(3+ teraflops).
Conversely if what is true in the article verbatim, than if 1.6 is how much faster it is in the best case scenario, this could be at 2500*1600 with 8aa resolution when a 512 meg card would be starved for memory.
60% percent is perfectly acceptable for the price of admission. At $299, it blows everything out of the water in the high end for price for performance.
The chips size estimates everyone is doing is based on pictures estimates.
Also if the chip is as large as everyone is saying and AMD is making this a hard lauch so soon. It could be that alot of the shaders are deactivated because yields at 40nm are bad. If this was the case, AMD would have another hand to play almost immedietly when the gt300 came out.
As we have seen between g80 and gt200, a linear jump in tflop performance does not equal a linear jump in gaming performance.
trueQuote:
Originally Posted by SimBy
this can be anything
but what card, rv870 and evergreen is the whole family of cardsQuote:
We've heard that ATI's soon to lunch DirectX 11 performance card, something that we know as RV870 and something that AMD calls Evergreen, should be roughly 1.6 times faster than the RV770 chip
only one they have shown so far is juniper
so is this juniper, or 5850 or 5870
fud throws out a speed but no facts on what:down:
it's like saying it will rain next week but not where :ROTF:
Nah, if something is twice (two times, 2x) as fast it's a 100% increase. 1.6 times as fast is 160% of original speed. Still Fudzilla isn't exactly the greatest source and more than 2TFLOPs for the 5850 would probably exceed 1.6 times as fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
its 160% of the original speed and 60% faster than the original speed
No, "1.6 times as fast as rv770" is 160% of the original speed and thast 60% faster. But FUD wrote "1.6 times faster than rv770" and thats 260% of the original speed and thus 160% faster. Im cant say what he ment, but he wrote 160% faster for shure.Quote:
Originally Posted by marten_larsson
No, u got it wrong, atleast what he wrote is different. Look it up, 1 times faster = 2 times as fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by ripken204
Just read the B3D r8xx fred, many ppl think like u 2 but its wrong. Not that i think Fudo is right with that, maybe he ment 60% faster and wrote 160%, but thats not the point.
Which is a pretty good way to estimate, since they were very close the last couple of times.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Yields are better than ~60%, which compared to early RV740 was around 20%.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
It's not that hard to understand. FUD wrote that it is 1.6 times as fast. Just think of it like this:
100 X 1.6 = 160 <---- It increased by 60%. You keep the same performance that the rv770 (that's the 1 in 1.6) and you increase it by 60% (that would be the 6 in 1.6)
I perfectly understand and i, too, think that Fudo wanted to write 60% faster than rv770. But its a fact that he wrote the following:
and that means 160% faster than rv770.Quote:
RV870 is 1.6 times faster than RV770
Again: 1.6 times faster = 160% faster and 1.6 times as fast as = 60% faster. Its that easy :)
Do we have a god damn release date yet?? Is it september for sure? Early or late september????
22nd
For sure? Was this released by ATi? I havent read it anywhere.
Confirmed? Link / source?Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
if im building a new rig to sell (i7 920, ssd, saphire 4890 1gb) do you think i could still get away with selling it even with the 5890's coming out inside the next month (Although i am doubting they will release in september, more likely october)
Press 10sep and some chibang intro with demos, specifications etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCarLessDriven
nda and such a week or two so after, I seen 24sep as a date.
Now, after 10sep we will most likely see a few leaks going on and get out the information in how the cards perform.
In the shop, after the 24?
with greater availibility in october before windows7.
w0mbat is usually spot on with his info ;)
Yeah, he doesn't need a source/link.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
AMD has done just amazing job keeping the stuff secret. Can't wait. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
Waaaaaa, dont hunt me down if im wrong. I cant always be right :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Im just writing so much stuff, some of it gotta turn out true...
I saw this post over at B3D. It makes the most sense to me -
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=2141Quote:
Seriously who believes that in a real game benchmark typically used, RV790(OC) scores for example 50 FPS. Would you believe RV870 scores 130 FPS or rather 80 FPS.
The 160% faster does not match to any rumoured Vintage scores either, which were reported at around 16-18.000.
If COD4 is giving you 50 fps on your 4870 or 4890 in any particular benchmark, the HD5870 is not going to yield 130+ FPS, more like 80-100 FPS. However, going from 3870 --> 4870 almost doubled performance (40 FPS to 80 FPS).
http://i28.tinypic.com/2istno4.jpg
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/a...5208/17130.png
3870 -----> 4870 -------Facts-------
320SP ----> 800SP-------- 2.5x
500 Gflop -> 1200 Gflop---- 2.4x
P5200-----> P10100 ------ 1.95x
39 FPS ---> 83 FPS ------- 2.15x
4870 -----> 5870 -------Rumors------
800SP ----> 1600SP------- 2.0x
1200Gflop -> 2400 Gflop --- 2.0x
P10100----> P18000 ------ 1.8x
50 FPS ----> 90 FPS ------ 1.8x -or-
50 FPS ----> 130 FPS ----- 2.6x
But they've also doubled the ROPs, so who knows what that improvement brings to the table?
Haha... Just saying, I don't think you have ever really led us astray.Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
Obviously no source can be 100% right.
and going from 3870 to 4850 is about 1.6 or 60% fasterQuote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
Hes writing about a "best case scenario" and 60% would be way too low for that.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Feature-set, bro...
Your over-all point is irrelevant. It offers MORE, it's not going to be better for us because its faster, but because it does more.
You're too caught up in FPS figures and not about how that chip space is being used. If all you want is better FPS, they could push that front very easily. But then games like ARMA II or OFP2 wouldn't have HDR, Bloom, shadows, etc...
A modest 60% increase has never happened so quickly. (less than a year!)
I went from an Radeon X1900XT ~ 8800gts 640mb ~ HD4870 1gig... over a 4year period and each upgrade was only a 25% increase in performance, if that!
Honestly, For $299 and a 60% increase over the $270 HD4870 I bought last October... is fook'ing incredible !!
Totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
fook'ing incredible.
I still think hd4870 -> hd5870 is going to be like ~80% faster on average, rather than 60% or 160%. 11 days to go!
X1950XTX to a 8800GTS 640mb was a good +25% increase, +50-60% in some cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
8800GTS 640mb to a 8800GT was a 10-20% increase, 8800GT to a 8800GTS/9800GTX was about the same 10-20%, 8800GTS/9800GTX to a 4870 was also a ~15-20% increase.
So all those upgrades were easily +25% and some cases 50-60%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
Its near now. I hope the rumored price doesn't disappoint, as well as the cards.:yepp:
all i know is the new cards are going to eat Modern warfare 2 for breakfast, asking for seconds.
No kidding I have the shakes.....can't wait.....c'mon c'mon......Maybe if I freeze myself....:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by labs23
Just 1.6 times faster then 1.0*HD 4870? So much for the 1600 shaders rumour...and I doubt 5870 is going to be able to surpass HD 4870x2 at high res with high levels of AA.
if a 4870x2 is 1.7 times faster than a 4870 we might these two neck and neck. and honestly that fud article is completely made up. no sources or anything and you know AMD is keeping all performance numbers quiet.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidReactor
Rv870 probably will still have 1600 shaders but that doesn't mean it will offer double the performance cause no drivers are perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidReactor
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=35
I posted that a week ago.:p:
Science H Logic! Don't do it! :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadasius
I hope its more than 60% as I expect GT300 to be more than that. We shall see...
As far as 1600sp not being 100% faster than 800 its down to their efficiency, clock speed and where the cards biggest bottleneck rests. We are talking an improved arcitechture here, not simply HD4870 X 2. 100%+ could be possible in certain cases but I'll be quite impressed if that turns out to be the the case. Still I'd expect better than 60%.
Well, at 2560x1600 with max eye candy maybe HD 4870 does offer over twice the performance of 3870 but theres one other important thing, is the game playable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.BSEL
Exactly. 2x crap is still... crap. Still, I expect the 5800s to handle nearly all current titles at 2560x1600 with 4x AA and still remain modestly playable ( with the exception of ARMAII and Crysis ; ARMAII is a nasty piece of work)Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidReactor
the real bottleneck is the memory. you would see very linear scaling if bandwidth was unlimited. maybe the peak flops of this card will be easier to reach because now gddr5 is commonplace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed
I think the 5850 will be around $299 usd and the 5870 are $399
i hope not and i doubt that will be the case......i think they still will be priced at 250 and 350 respectively to give there 4800 series some room to breath...it would be hard to sell the hd4800 series with the HD5800 bieng priced at 199 and 299 but i still think ATI wants to price there 5800's very competitively at the same time....i think we win either way :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by revogamer
oh well thats what prices one of my 'contacts' have for RRP
If the GT300 is 10% faster then a 295 like rumoured, then where would that leave the HD5870? I hope it will be fast enough.
I just know that this is going to be very interesting, since funds are at an all time low, and if AMD comes out with a lower priced card, they could have secured my money for this year! :)
and..?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
That^^ took place over a 5 year period. My point was the 5800 series is supposedly a 60% increase, in just one years time.
So, those people who are complaining or demanding a higher gains might want to check themselves... if they want a 100% increase, they may have to wait a little longer and pay a tad more.
ATI's claims of 60% better is not disappointing at all.
Ah...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
Go back a little farther then if that was your main point.
7900GTX was released in March 2006.
So in 9 months we went from a 7900GTX to the 8800GTX.
Also just a side note, there was no "official" claim of 60% more performance.
I heard $349 for HD5870 and $269 for HD5850 at launch :shrug:
A 60% performance improvement would be very good, and even more than what I originally expected. Usually, no more than 50% increase is given from a generation to the next, usually less than that, and last generation HD4000 was more than an exagerated +100% increase or so.
If it would be a number to the average real world cases, it would be believable too. What I see strange is what w0mbat has mentioned: the article is talking about a "best case scenario", and that doesn't match to the other info that has leaked around (a 100% increase in computing/shading power should correspond to a minimum of 100% best case scenario performance increase in a case where computing/shading power was the bottleneck).
I would say that either they don't know what is a best case scenario, or the number is directly wrong. I don't believe that a chip that is 20-35% bigger than RV770 (300-350mm2 vs 254mm2) in a half the size manufacturing process (40nm vs 55nm) is going to be increased only 60% in the most increased aspect of the chip...
And if it's not a best case scenario, then the number doesn't mean anything, because we wouldn't know what that number matches to...
Yep, "HD5870" should be >2× HD4870, or it's a huge fail considering the die size.
Is this ur "contact"?Quote:
Originally Posted by revogamer
http://forums.ocworkbench.com/showthread.php?p=451389
if it is his contact then it's wrong,Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
why would Dirt 2 come out that much earlier than the DX11 cards?
I assure you it will come out in September, probably on the 10th or 11th to coincide with Dirt 2's release.
Maybe November for real availability but press reviews before ? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
Edit : Digitimes
Digitimes is pretty reliable, no ?Quote:
Nvidia and AMD are preparing to launch their latest DirectX 11 supporting GPUs in the second half of 2009, according to sources at graphics card makers.
Nvidia is scheduled to complete engineering samples of its DirectX 11-based GT300 GPU at the end of September in order to start shipping in December at the earliest, the sources noted.
Meanwhile, AMD is prepared to launch its DirectX 11-based Radeon HD 5800 series (RV870) in late September and will start mass shipping in October. AMD will launch two models initially, the Radeon HD 5850 and 5870, the sources added.
AMD declined the opportunity to respond to this report saying it cannot comment on unannounced products. Nvidia was also contacted, but did not respond by the time of publication.
Thx DVHardware ;)
Nvidia be lucky if it works without a re-spin.
if so add 3 months to that.
ATI be supreme on market for at least 4+months.
look at the 3800 to 4800 jump, the 3870 came out 11/2007 and the 4870 on 06/2008. being only 35% bigger, offered what kind of performance increase? in how many months? i dont get whats so hard to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
so 15 months after the 4870 we will have something on a smaller process, with a bigger chip. (if they wanted they could make it 500mm2 and get 3x the performance jump, it will just be too expensive to make due to yields and too expensive to buy) but its ALL their choice of how they wish to make it
Because 99.9% of people playing Dirt 2 won't be doing so on DX11 cards? In any case, November is very doubtful at this point. It looks like AMD has all their ducks in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
Sorry to be offtopic, but whatever DX11 may bring to the table it will also be wasted on Dirt 2. Codemasters quiet simply suck and hardly can make prettier visuals than the later NFS crap. Just because their games don't look horrible as a sim racer does not make them halfway decent when you look at what the console halo titles have been doing forever. Also Don't bother boring me with links to screenshots to the counter, GRID fooled us all too.
ATI should consider itself well out of the gates long before anyone is pining to turn on DX11 in a game :rofl:
I think 299 for the 5870 is crap.
The 5850 will be 299 and the 5870 will be 399. Imo.
Seconded. Thats what ive been hearing from sources... contrary to this 299 bs.Quote:
Originally Posted by revogamer
That's stupid,that means the x2 would be 699.99$,and probably still not beat out nvidia.Why have the same price with less performance.:shrug:X2 should be 499.99$100$ -200$ CHEAPER WITH HOPEFULLY ON PAR PERFORMANCE IS WHATS NEEDED.:confused:
my sources are a big supplier which have allocation :)
Many sites report the Dirt 2 PC version is delayed till December in order to have the DX11 features. Here is one LINK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
I think it's save to say the PC Dirt 2 is not going to be out before the DX11 cards at least in the AMD/ATI case.
I thought Dirt 2 PC was being released in December, did something change?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
While 299 for the 5870 might be unrealistic, I think that a $100 gap between those two models might be too much too. ATi plan to release a lot of cards, and if the only difference between the two models is the clock speeds on the ram and core I think ATi will price the 5870 much closer to the 5850, especially considering they'll be releasing the X2 much closer to them than last time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian
Basically, I think ATI have built the cards in such a way, that the biggest expense increase over the 4870 cards is the cores themselves. As they've been able to grab almost all the DDR5 made over the last year they'll probably get good rates by shifting the entire range to DDR5
329 US$ HD 5870 and 249 US$ HD 5850 sounds good, if the chip does have 1600 SPs & 32 ROPs. HD 5870X2 can go for 549 US$ then.
The following invitation was posted by MonicaAM at RAGE3D
Quote:
San Francisco/Bay Area AMD Community PC Gaming Event
AMD's been cooking up some very cool stuff ... if you were at QuakeCon you might have already seen a sneak peek.
Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but here goes ...
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Interested in joining us?? Send me an e-mail at MonicaAMD@gmail.com with the following details:
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Blog: AMD @Play
On Twitter: AMD_Unprocessed & CatalystMaker
Website: AMD! GAME
Yeah, saw that earlier today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68
Damn... If I didn't have to work I would be all over that.
Last time I was too young for the R600 launch and it was right around finals.
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/Thum..._5870X2_21.jpg:shrug:
There goes the aggressive pricing:confused:, yet I still hope Theo got it wrong.:rolleyes:
^ they're release prices, they'll drop when nvidia introduces the GT300 in Q1 2010.
Yep the prices are something. Every thing is over priced by least $50. They should have hiked the prices only by $50 not $100.
The card that i am interested in costs $600 "For that you can get 2x 4870 x2". When the 4870x2 came out it was $499 i think that is good price but asking $100 more seems rather capitalistic of them. They should have priced 5870x2 at $549, the 5870 at $349 and 5850 at $249, if they wanted to milk the market gently and softly but if the proposed prices are really they really shoved their hands up there.
If you compare the initial price of GT200 series with the highest guestimate of RV580... they are still cheap.
On realease:
GTX280 U$S649
GTX260 U$S449
HD5850 for U$S299 and HD5870 for U$S399 is cheap for next gen. high end cards. For a few months they'll be the fastest sigle cards out there by a huge margin. I think AMD will cut the price after GT300 is launched.
That's definitely a HD4870X2 right there in the pic.Quote:
Originally Posted by labs23
:yepp:
Yeah, I guess BSON didn't found a decent pic. of 58xx.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by largon
As usual, but that depends of the latter's perf.:yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi64
I think ATI will drop prices even in the unlikely event that GT300 is a huge flop. I think it would be an effective strategy because it might enable ATI to pull in some of the less informed people out there who think NVIDIA is the only GPU maker out there that's worth buying from.
£245 for the 5870 is ok i guessQuote:
Originally Posted by largon
launch prices when there is no other dx11 card should be that high at first. 300-400 in october, and 200-300 in december, and then comes the slow decline of prices by about 5% per month for the next year.
ATI won't be dropping prices for a little while yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
The more I think about it, though, the more a $299 pricepoint for the 5850 makes more and more sense considering the 1600 shaders (it should beat the GTX 285 handily, pushing its price down to $249 or lower).
What remains to be seen, however, is whether the single 5870 can trump its younger brother which also has 1600 shaders: the 4870X2.
Considering that the 4870 was faster than the 3870X2, I have great hope for the product.
Perkam
But wait, didn't someone (Stukov?) same AMD's strategy is to create a product for a price segment? Not the other way around?
If that's the case we shouldn't be seeing 'relative' but absolute pricing.
Dave Baumann... but there is also the fact that both factors influence each other equally.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
Pffft,I'll wait.:yepp:
Should be able to since it wont have to deal with crossfire scaling and inefficiencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
That brings up a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Hunter
Micro-stutter was pretty bad in the last gen of crossfire/sli and not so much in this gen (4870x2). But it's still there, plus how SLI was implamented reduces the specs, so it's not a proper comparison. Because in Crossfire/SLi things are mirrored, etc.
ATI hints at a new connection or cross-talk between their GPUs. I wonder how much better scaling we will get... I know HYDRA is/was suppose to be near 100% scaling.
Even if it's not, the enthusiast wouod rejoice at anything close to 80%. Does the HD5870x2 move in this direction if it's a single card solution with a true Dual-GPU solution...?
Hmmm... I don't ever remember hearing about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
Can you recall where you heard that or read it?
Really the only info I remember coming directly from AMD/ATi was that the scheduler is much more complex and that this is the largest change since R600.
If hes meaning sideport that will never see the light of day.......
It will not be useless for a second time. If its included on the RV870 die it will serve a purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylzer
The following was published at Plaza.FI, September 2, 2009. I used the Google Translate. The contest is at PowerColor site but not the picture. Maybe Sampsa can tell us more about it. Can somebody contact him?
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3795/topdx11299.jpg
by the length of that silhouette I'm going to guess that the 5850 will be the top end single GPU for now, and then the 5870 will come out later along with the 5870 X2, and a 5850 price drop will occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68
Pic with $299 price tag was included in Word-file PowerColor included with PR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68
Unless the estimated pricing structure is wrong, which is how I'm leaning. That supposed $100 gap between the 5870 and 5850 just feels too large.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
I just read an article on computerbase.de today. According to it the cards will be a bit more expensive: http://translate.google.de/translate...istory_state0=
we've had those prices for about a day now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxi
@Sampsa
Thanks for the reply
The HD 4870 was not much longer than the HD 4850. Here TechSpot comparing the Visiontek reference cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
Even if there was an inch difference it would be very hard to guess from that silhouette which 5800 series card it is.Quote:
In terms of physical dimensions the Radeon HD 4870 is just half a centimeter longer than the Radeon HD 4850,
All rumors say the HD 5850 and 5870 is going to be released at the same. Only the dual GPU card is going to be released later.
The PowerColor about the contest:
Quote:
Top vote getters from each category (3) will be some of the first to own a high end DirectX 11 next generation PowerColor graphics card!
Wonder if thats for the 5850 or 5870?Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68
From the price given, that should be the 5850.:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1tyMcGee
Hope I'm wrong though.
Hopefully PowerColor has learned from there mistakes from the past with the 9700pro box art.
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL60.../342015327.jpg
For the third time: "Top vote getters from each category (3) will be some of the first to own a high end DirectX 11 next generation PowerColor graphics card!"Quote:
Originally Posted by labs23
How hard can it be? :shrug:
If the card is real then i am sure its a double slot, so if 5870 is suppose to be double slot and 5850 single than its a 5870.
What's your point exactly? A 5850 is high end....Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuthalu
AMD's prior research has found that the most the mainstream gamer will pay is 299.99. I Don't think that number goes up in a global recession.Quote:
Originally Posted by labs23
Ummm... those supposed prices were posted a few weeks ago, just not here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helloworld_98
Here is what was my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
The HD 5870 is described on most sites as the high-end single GPU card. The HD 5850 is usually described as the mid-range or performance level card.
I doubt the top prices are HD 5850 cards, when PowerColor published this:Quote:
Hemlock: Highest-end desktop part, probably dual Cypress GPUs a la the rumored Radeon 5870 X2.
Cypress: High-end single-GPU part. Similar to the Radeon HD 4870 when it launched.
Juniper: Mid-range desktop part. Similar to the Radeon HD 4850 when it launched.
Cedar & Redwood: Low-end desktop parts. Similar to the Radeon HD 4650 and 4670.
Icronic.com
PSQuote:
Top vote getters from each category (3) will be some of the first to own a high end DirectX 11 next generation PowerColor graphics card!
For example, would you describe the GTX 260 as nVidia high end card.