shanghai's L3 is 2200mhzQuote:
Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck
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shanghai's L3 is 2200mhzQuote:
Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck
I would have expected 2400 on deneb
So what happened to 5% performance advantage is a no biggie? ;) Anyway, there are cheap intel boards too.Quote:
Originally Posted by MsB
welcome back from the rock you just crawled from; PII is NOT a competitor to Nehalem. Repeat; PII is NOT a competitor to Nehalem. What does this mean? It means if one owns a decent Intel board, they could upgrade to any number of E8xxx series or C2Q Q9xxx series processors. I mean, it's not science; if PII proves to annihilate everything in its path then you'll see people like me jumping ship, but so far, the part can't even beat a similarly clocked penryn. And penryns are drop-in chips for most Intel-platform-would-be upgraders. Sigh. I really needed that. Stop talking about $1K upgrades it just shows you haven't really been following what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
i agree as well
the ONLY thing i am not sure about is how well retail chips will OC on LN2 and if AMD has a massive lead on LN2 (say 1GHz) will that be enough to compete on multithreaded benchmarks still
guess we'll find out in January the full story
4 weeks and we know it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
The thing is even if PIIs can overclock to 6Ghz or even 6.2ghz benchable, under ln2, they'd still be beaten by Intel parts. If we can see 7Ghz benchable :shocked: PIIs, then things will get exciting. The reason why the dust has already settled is that we have a good idea what the PIIs are capable of at stock; it is not too good a picture, considering that a lower clocked Q9550 fares very well against them. That's ALL we need to know; stock numbers. It's the reason why they're priced below the Q9550. Ln2 is for the pros; and how many are there? So it'll appear to me that the performance line has already been drawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Since you know so much please be kind enough and provide us all with the review of the retail Phenom II system.If you can't,on what exactly are you basing your post?A few leaked slides,from unknown sources?How come "all of a sudden" slideware has become reliable source :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
I don't need reviews, what I've seen is enough for me. I'm definitely not holding my breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
So you don't have hard numbers and you admit your post was based on what exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
I don't say i know how it will perform,i just want you to show me on what exactly you base your opinion??Apart from wishful thinking maybe.
It is far from clear it will be a better buy than Penryn.Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
Was it AMD who released the slides comparing the 3.0Ghz PhII to the Q9300 and Q9400?Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
If it was, then we know that is the absolute best case possible for AMD, with the reality likely to be somewhat less.
AMD didn't release anything.There are some "leaked" slides.But without proper(that's an odd word) review(spi and the likes excluded,real apps included),we still don't know how it will fare in gaming and multimedia apps,the two things 90% of desktop users do on their PC.We know how it OCs(quite good),we know it's pretty cool even OCed,we can guess what power draw will it have.Everything else is not certain.
Your hypocrisy is amazing; maybe your eyes are good for only those charts that show good numbers for PII. Look, it's inevitable. I know you've seen some of the leaked shots too. By the way, don't you think the lack of benchmarksfrom AMD themselves is an indicator? What about the price of the product? Dude, I can't think for you. You can hold your breath till you pass out, and the results will remain the same. PII is no miracle chip; maybe in AMD-dom. :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
AM3, new socket, ready to go for future upgrades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
775, dead platform, end of life for it.
I'd go AM3 so as to not lock myself to having to again buy a new board/ram/CPU for the next upgrade.
Coming from a person that thinks Intel will pricecut i7. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Oww look who's delusional now.
If you already buy AM3 in the future. Then why not LGA1366 or LGA1156? Its not nice to compare it to LGA775. AM2(+) is there for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
Plus honestly. Even tho people can upgrade the CPU only. We also know that there is something better and more fun ahead in terms of platform that you want. As AMD also continually reminds people. Platform, platform platform.
$$$$$$$Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Just look back a couple posts leading up to mine to get the context, that was already addressed.
I'm not saying that is an unreasonable approach to take, but with the difference in platform costs, one might be able to buy a DDR2 platform(motherboard & Ram) for either AMD or Intel and then a DDR3 platform 12 months later, for the same price as buying a DDR3 platform now, but get better overall performance and system life.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
At this point in time I am not sold on the benefits of DDR3 for either side.
Actually won't a PhII processor work in either a DDR2 platform or a DDR3 one?
If so, that is a big advantage they will have.
And you show us what kind of a "great" dude you are by labeling us with "pretty names" while still pretending to be "realistic". Give me a break.I can label you the same but i wont.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
I'm not holding any breath.Yeah of course i seen "the leaked slideware" and it tells me pretty much nothing,apart from bad scale on the charts and unrealistic scaling going from Q9300 to Q9400(much more than Mhz increase).
What I know is the chip has a potential to become great(if not most wanted) mainstream quad core part,it has all that is needed: high IPC,great OCing headroom,cheap and excellent platform to run on,very competitive price,great thermal properties be it stock or OCed,relatively low power draw. You can close your eyes at these facts all day long and recommend i7 left and right on this forum.It's all fine.But don't assume you know what others think and label them as residents of AMD-dom.It makes you look silly and fanboish.
i7 isalready price-cut; the top three most expensive desktop cpus are all penryns so we know who is delusional. If you have a response to my post let's hear it. I'm tired of your nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
Yes you're right, the AM3 PII will work in either board type with either type of memory. And like you I'm not sure about the benefits of DDR3 but I'm looking at it as all the newer stuff will be on AM3 and AM2+ will be left behind. I'm aiming for AM3 because of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
Is anyone from LGA775 switching to i7, selling their DDR3 for cheap?
If some highvolt/high-clock modules are available, it might be worth it.
Price $$$Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
No, you said that i7 will be price-cut BEYOND $283.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
I'm tired of your spokesperson nonsense, too.
intel are prepping a CPU below core i7 920
jp has already posted some results here fellas
intel will be price/performance competitive against AMD as well i think
by the time AMD gear all some out and things get going Intel will have decent deals too (january period)
LGA1156 will be very very cheap ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by freeloader
You can pick up a Ci7 processor today for $290, a couple of weeks before xmas. http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0300438Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
How can you even maintain prices are not going to go down further/cut by Intel due to projected 1st quarter slump as well as undercutting from AMD? Or you think Intel is going to watch AMD undercut it without taking measures to counter it? Mark my words, Ci7 920 is priced lower than Q9550, the main competitor to Deneb x4 940; the ci7 will always be priced lower than the Q9550. You can sig it.
With the Ci7 in the mix, the picture is even more gloomy for AMD.
What is LGA1156 for? I thought 1366 replaced 775 for the i7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
If it is for the "budget" chips, no thanks, that's even worse. Budget chip on its own socket = never upgrade to the better chips without a board change - again.
Zucker2K and you based your knowledge because this chart opposed PII940 with Q9300 and 9400.Your guessing is it opposed to his processor because it has the same performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
But if it opposed to Q9300 and Q9400 because it has the same price, your guessing is wrong.
LGD1156 is H2'09 so we can't compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Moreover i personnally dislike the idea of two socket for basically the same cpu because if they kill one socket for any reason you may be screwed with the wrong socket :(
No benchmarks for R770 too and rumoured/leaked to be 8800GT ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
You see a lots of things but you didn't see thread about rumoured price! :clap:
I watch i7 prices since beginning and it's the same. You prolly have been fooled by "milked" launch price...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
i7 920 is price lower than Q9550 because is a different platform. No competition between both for the reason you state before : Q9550 is an upgrade, i7 920 is not an upgrade for S775 owners.
Well I think AMD will do the same later on with G34 socket.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
Basicly LGA1366 is for 920/940/965, servers and workstations. Highend enthutiast stuff so to say. People that want tripple SLi/trifire etc.
LGA1156 is for everything else. Ondie PCIe, no northbridge chip. 2x8 or 1x16 PCIe lanes for SLI/crossifre or single card. Dualchannel memory etc. Quadcore/dualcore with HT on. The boards will be very cheap with the southbridge only (Basicly like ICH series). And you can still get something with i7 940 performance.
What you're missing though is that because the platforms are different, Intel is in essence competing against itself. I'd rather upgrade to a Q9650 from my Q9550 than go with Ci7 at this time. So if Intel lowers prices on the penryn line, most intel users are going to opt to upgrade processors rather than upgrade platform. That is where the Ci7 920 comes in, it is the hook, if it's priced low enough or comes in very attractive bundles, people are going to bite, from there they'll never look back. I have no degree in marketing, but these things are obvious enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
Would that upgrade make any sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
You wouldn't get that much performance increase for your money.
G34 is a server socket. Not going to be what most people here would use in their main PC ;) AM3 covers all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
LGA1366 is another matter. If you want all the high end stuff, you gotta have it. Want lower, 1156 works. But if you get 1156 then want to move upwards, you're stuck buying a new platform, again, new board and at least another stick of ram, assuming you can find one to match the 2 you already have.
Intel is looking to make my purchasing decisions difficult again! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Upgrade to a Q9650 from a Q9550? Who is fool enough to do that :shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Anyway, upgrade yes but your reasoning is almost totally based on the fact that everyone have a C2D...
ps : +1 Chad Boga, again!
You obviously know nothing about this; for some of us, it is the fun of playing with the particular chip. If my investment in computers was for what I do everyday, I'll be using a pentium II. Some of you talk out of your a**. The Q9650, my dear friends is an easy 8x533 overclock, 4.5Ghz 24/7 on water. This is getting ridiculous. Hell, AMD didn't touch it, probably threatened reviewers with legal action if they touched that chip. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
So you guaranteeing that the Q9650 will routinely hit 4.5GHz? :p:
ROFL yeah sure mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Lol I know nothing about it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
http://www.hwbot.org/quickSearch.do?hardwareId=CPU_1668
Average Q9650 OC on Hwbots : 4.44GHz :rolleyes:
And you say easy 8x533 4.5GHz! 8x533 = 4.5GHz dude!
And You said I obviously know nothing...
If you have one, toss it my way and I'll show you.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
Here's my crappy C1 Q9550 on water: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=7473
#25 in the world: http://en.ripping.org/database.php?cpuid=634
The EO Q9650 is a way easy overclocker, and that 9x500 would a piece of cake.
First of all, I like to think of myself as better than an average overclocker, hehe. I didn't say 8x533 is equal to 4.5 Ghz :down:; if you're a real overclocker, you'd understand why 8x533 is as good as 4.5Ghz 24/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
have you used a Q9550 before? If you did, did you notice how overclocks by the dudes with the Q9650s was so tantalizingly out of reach? See? You know nothing about this :D
Edit: So average is 4.4ghz? :up: Sorry, I think I'll shoot for 4.6 Ghz when I get my dirty hands on a Q9650.
If I had one do you think I'd be running this fairly crappy q6600 :p: Besides, if I had one I could do it myself too, if it was as easy as you say ;)
You were 200MHz away from 4.5GHz. 200MHz can be a long way... ask me how I know, I fought for 3.4GHz out of my q6600 forever and finally had to give up :lol2: A blanket statement like yours is never trustworthy and that's because no OC is ever ever guaranteed. Would be like guaranteeing that 6GHz OC on phenomII on LN2 - can't. I got a q6600 g0 and it still does fairly poorly compared to others. I could easily hand you a q9650 that can't break 4GHz. Some chips just suck.
Can you tell I hate generalizations yet? :p:
Yeah, 200mhz away with a Q9550 :p: What I'm saying is based on observation, go to the Intel section and search for the Q9650 thread, then you can draw your own conclusions. The chip requires ridiculously low volts for 4Ghz+, runs cool with low temps, and has amazing fsb headroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=197802Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
The people who are hitting 4.4GHz+ are wandering into the 1.5v territory, which is not good for 24/7 OC.
First page to last page, 4GHz at 450ish x 9 is clearly the most common 24/7 overclock. If it was as easy to hit 4.5GHz 24/7 stable as you claim, then you'd be seeing a lot more 4.5GHz and a lot less 4.0GHz.
You hilarious :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
It's you :
http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=16171
It's me :
http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=6410
:up:
edit : you're a real overclocker and you are not tempted by a 275$ unlocked cpu!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiridum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Wrong, because the IMC is gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
The LGA1156 are for Havendale and Auberndale, integrated graphics + 2 channel DDR3 from what I have been able to gather form the web.
That is irrelevant, actually at this point, that is at least a year or more away.
Ouch AbelJemka,35.8 versus 10.1 :D,no contest there.And "you are not a good overclocker" Abel!1!1!1! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
Now seriously ,all this 24/7 Yorkfied talk combined with 1.5V seems a bit fishy to me.It's okay for benchmark tests and hitting high Mhz,but i doubt anyone is running 1.5V on their Yorkfield 1K$ chip.
And what was the point of those links? Your cpu overclock couldn't hold a candle to mine :rofl: And I'm not that much into 3D benching. I took two HD4850s to 22K 3Dmark '06 with a Q9450 at 3.8ghz. That's all the 3d benching I've done.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
back on topic; we're talking about overclocking the Q9550 and the Q9650. What do you know about these? :shrug:
Uhm? The IMC is right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmage
I could catch and pass him any day if i want to, I just don't have the time to fool around in hwbot when folks are taking down your scores without informing you; I gave up. Now let's like at the real picture; the images don't lie; 25 submissions against 5; :rofl: Obviously you play around a lot on hwbot, so it's important to you. If you do want to maintain your current position, behave, or I'll take it away. :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
@ Informal; dude you seriously need glasses,; no, seriously. lol
strokes the CPU for the upcoming weekend torture session ;)
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5...600edittc2.jpg
:yepp:
Q6600 to 4GHz... incredible... NOT :p:
Ahh i see you are prepared to deal with the fishy platform :D j/k . Good luck ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Anyhow,you OCed K8 before and i920 now so you are all set as far knowledge goes.Now what kind of luck you have with that sample :D
Do it and post the images. :yepp: :lsfight:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
U push a Q9550 from 2008 to 4.3GHz and I push an original E6600 from summer 2006 to 4.25GHz :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
And yes your Q9550 destroy my E6600..:clap:
Just to say don't write thinks like real overclocker since you don't know about what you speaking!
Not submitted since more a year and submitted to compare with others not to praise myself like "my Q9550 is 25th best cpu in the world" :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Last time I checked this topic was about a PII run on LN2... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Linky, or it didn't happen. By the way, it doesn't matter what year, pentiums have clocked way into 7 & 8Ghz zone :yepp: with the 2x 512MB rams and E6600 and Q6600, you have 9x multi, I had to work with 8.5. Give me a Q9650 and I'll show you what I can do with it. I haven't been clocking too long, but I can tell you I have a first already to my name. Enough of this already, I'm not here to blow my own horn. We can create our own thread and go at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelJemka
I'm surprised you're still talking. The dinos22 just owned you big time, hehe.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caparroz
Please, by all means, do that. You can always use an amazing tool called "MSN". You can find it pretty quick using Google. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Not need I'm done with you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Alright where are the mods? I've been called a retarded troll and now this. I'll tell you what, next time the good Dr. (you know, the one without the Ph.D that all of his colleagues can't stand) posts I'm gonna welcome his retarded, trolling ass from the rock he just crawled out from under and see what happens. Anyone want to guess what's going to happen? The blue slant is absolutely astonishing. Look I even tinted my avatar blue...is that gonna help? :)
By the way, why does my multi-quote button do nothing but say 'SAAYA' when I press it? Hrmmm.
Dinos, do you really have one of those?! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Or is that just a teaser? :shakes:
its real dude :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Frontl1ne
Welcome back from the rock; that's the way multi-quote works, just click quote on the last post you want to quote. :welcome:Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
Want some more proof? http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...2&postcount=51Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontl1ne
It's real my friend and we'll be having some fun this weekend :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
I want you guys to spank it, pull its hair, and make it squeal. It better come out of that socket tamed and bent to your will! :cord:Quote:
Originally Posted by moloko
Sorry if that sounds a little rough, but I want to make sure I get my point across. :D
:shocked::shocked::up:Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Good luck with the OC and grats.
oh man you really like it rough dont ya :rofl::DQuote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
hey Josh what kinda beer do you drink again lolQuote:
Originally Posted by moloko
i've only got some Carlton Cold and Cascade Light heheheh
My god, that is some of the most twisted imagery for OC benching I think I've ever heard :rofl: :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
Hahaha, soft!Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
My current vice is Cooper's Sparkling Ale but any decent beer is good, e.g. Toohey's Extra Dry, Heineken, Becks etc :yepp:
Are you a whiskey man by any chance? I've got a bottle of 20 year old Canadian Club (thank goodness for duty free!) which could be nice for marking a special occassion - albeit just one drink :p: If we want to get on the piss I'll just bring 6 or 12 year old :ROTF:
ROFL
slamming whiskys while torturing this CPU
how long do you think this poor bastard will last :rofl::rofl:
I WANT!Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
please :)
Where is this offending post?Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
In no time you will be feeding the poor bugger with 2.5V while you empty the whiskey bottle :ROTF:.I can hear the Deneb scream,moar voltzz(and the pot will scream too :D)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Hmm seems rather accurate. Did you also print out the graph and break out a ruler to measure the length of the bars and compare them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Calmatory
Moloko, agh disgraceful :)Quote:
Originally Posted by moloko
Better :)Quote:
Originally Posted by moloko
Are you a mod?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
Well the mutli-quote has worked before. But hey, maybe you were driving the ox cart and didn't notice. :confused:
Dened ES have HT on 2.4ghz.
Deneb AM2+ have NB on 1.8ghz.
Deneb AM3 have NB on 2.4ghz.
Remember HT clock is on par with NB clock.
That's why AM3 will be a bit faster.
I've choosen to buy an 945 with an AM3 board. 16go of DDR3 will be fine :D ( actually i'm using 8go ^^ )
Yes it turns to Saaya.. just press it on every post you want to quote, then hit the "Post Reply" button. All the quotes will be there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
you guys have no clueQuote:
Originally Posted by gumballguy
Carlton Cold rules :D
South Australia's finest creation :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by moloko
Looking forward to your results lads :up:
Boo, why do they do that...Quote:
Originally Posted by madcho
Well, not a big issue, it's only a matter of changing HEX values from 05 to 08:p:
I dont think they can hear you, you need to do it this wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Caparroz
Last time I checked this topic was about a PII run on LN2...
Now could XtremeSystem forum members Please get back on topic
Open another thread if you want to discuss performance delta between the green and the blue teams competing products.
Its disapointing that the mods are again IGNORING an AMD thread that has turned onto anarchy. Maybe we should start looting the place where the XS server is hosted and bring it offline
:p:
Heineken is one of the worst beers in the world....:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by moloko
Fixed:DQuote:
Originally Posted by mongoled
No, I can think of worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiridum
Murphies is awesome:cool:
Oh yes, on topic:p:
Ok ... here your Phenom II :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoled
http://news.ati-forum.de/images/stor...e/phen1vs2.jpg
Source:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-8&sl=de&tl=en
HT must be lower or equal with NB not equal.Quote:
Originally Posted by madcho
A 1.8GHz NB speed is a breeze for all those guys coming from c2 and starting to overclock via ref HT only. :)
I don't think you are being completely honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
Likewise. So are you a mod then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Boga
You got it. So just because the HT link clocks are low, doesn't mean the L3 clock is. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
As unlike you I didn't make any claims, then that statement makes about as much sense as pretty much all the rest of your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
If you want to correspond with a Mod, then rather than posting openly about your crybaby ramblings in the forums, PM them directly.Quote:
So are you a mod then?
To do otherwise just portrays you as someone who wants to be a drama queen and is seeking attention.
I agree completely ....utter trash & has no Business being called or referred to as German Beer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiridum
it look like all the chips on show have 1.8 HT/NB. This is not a big issue on the BE since it is unlocked and can me changed with a click. Maybe they are lower for TDP reasons..? I haven't seen a retail chip out yet, so who knows.
Errr, Heineken is Dutch dude:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
And to be honest, it ain't trash, it's just not as good as others. Amstel is a whole lot better IMO, Murphies being :banana::banana::banana::banana:'n awesome. But I can think of a whole lot worse beers than Heineken really:rolleyes: In the end most of the stuff drinks anyway if you're :banana::banana::banana::banana:faced.
But since a while I prefer Vodka, Bacardi, Wiskey etc;) Beer is fun, but it makes me cry to have instead of a nice glass of Irish Dew:D
Where in the heck did this thread go?
Definitely not News anymore :down:
Anyway, back on topic, the link to the personal review pretty much confirms what I've been told about Phenom 2. 3.8 is a similar limit like 3.2GHz is on the Phenom 1. A 600MHz increase doesn't mean 4GHz is unreachable. If everyone thinks they'll hit 4GHz, they're fooling themselves. I'd be real happy with a 24/7 3.6GHz:up: After folks at ONLY 3.2GHz burned up IMC and etc.., this will be nice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-UK
all belgian beers >>> heineken :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteiner
heineken is pompwater
Fixed:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiridum
At least, that's how we call crap in here;) Still, it ain't bad. Dont know much Belgian beers, only Hoevaarden (or whatever:confused:), pretty ace.