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Btw gentlemen, i would not be disappointed if the card scores exactly the same as 2 3870's in CF (subsequently, priced no more than €350,-)
The interesting part should happen with 2 3870X2's in CF. That's when the card should find its reason for existance: like full AA + AF at 1600x1200 and up with never below 50 fps in all existing recent games. :cool:
We still need to see the X-fire numbers. :shrug:
With all things to consider:Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
Cat used, OS, other PC Hardware, etc a 90+MHz difference in OC should be noticeable in any benchmark result. However, the CPU score is lower then at 3.33GHz. Since we know a healthy CPU OC on a C2Q can affect SM 2/3 I have to wonder what the score would be if it was clocked at 3.33 instead of 3.40. Since that current CF setup (cpu 3.4x) didn't beat X2 at 3.33 I assume that it would be lower. Thus the reason why I say it was a boost. I could be wrong but that's what I assumed.
Not only that if the new drivers add anything to performance. But most of all if it's actually the same as CF and it works in all current games that's a win-win in my book. The concern (for me as well as others) is compatibility with all current gen games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbornchild
:up:
If we were to assume for the sake of argument that 4-way Crossfire was possible, and it consumed 8 times the power of a standard 3870, and that the rest of the system at load sucked in about 200 watts (I pulled that number out of my pooper), and if we were to further assume you lived in one of a few select parts of the United States or Canada, playing games on this could pump out right around 400 liters of CO2 an hour.
You should physically be able to feel the planet warm around you.
APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON
First, Q6600@3000Mhz, 3870CF stock, Catalyst 7.12, Vista x64 totally untweaked
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9...0630sc5.th.png
For the lazy ppl:
- SM2.0 = 6137
- SM3.0 = 7510
- CPU Score = 4373
- Total Score = 15736
Second, Q6600@3330Mhz, 3870CF stock, Catalyst 7.12, Vista x64 totally untweaked
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1...0633bd0.th.png
- SM2.0 = 6849
- SM3.0 = 7933
- CPU Score = 4808
- Total Score = 17100
Perfomance boost? I don't think so :p:. Again, I'm asking myself how the 3870X2 will perform in games without CF profile vs 3870CF, that's the real question.
I believe you concentrated more on the final score more so then the sm 2.0/3.0 scores. In which there is a difference found between CF and X2, even with you having a higher CPU score. What does this mean for Cat 8.1? Don't know yet until it's released. In all we are still only comparing CF to CF with different CPU overclocks and different OS.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
:up:
I have concentrated in all the scores. You should consider Aero is turned ON in my tests, SpeedStep is ON too, and it's just reboot and run.
The 3870X2 scores are with Aero OFF, and that makes impact in SM2.0 and SM3.0 perfomance. Again, there is no perfomance boost in this card for 06. The CPU clock on my test is exactly the same too...
And your use of Vista 64 therefore not the same as the previous benchmark results.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
:up:
OK, keep thinking all you want, the scores are there. There is no magic in this card, just two 3870s. And 3DMark is a 32bit app :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
I see the tables have turned now, before it wasn't ok to use 2 of the same CPUs at different OCs but we are suppose to allow for 64 bit OS over a 32 bit OS? :p: In any case we need to wait until the video card is released and we will see. Like another poster stated (and I assume some won't care) if the frame rates of an X2 are the same from CF it doesn't matter. I believe what will be important (as I've posted before) is if it's compatible with all current gen games. If there is an actually improvement over CF, the more the better!Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
:up:
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
AMD driver ain't my cup of tea.
In any case, 3870X2 at last will force NVIDIA to release their next highend card. :yepp:
Because you have a GF8800. Now shall us with a ATI card go posting in nVidia threads that Forceware is not our cup of tea? :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth Seebel
11% more clock results in nearly 9% more 3d power ? wtf ?
3dmark06 really sucks.
Does anyone know if games will treat this card as a single gpu or does the game need to support crossfire in order to support both cores. If the card is treated as a single gpu in game and utilizes both cores then thats a significant advantage over a dual card setup :)
Nvidia is releasing a 9800GX2. I wouldn't call it next gen, but more of a reply to this card. The 9800GX2 is two g92's with 1gig of ram per card. It is rumored to run 30% faster than the ultra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth Seebel
The winner between these two cards will come down to price and driver support imo. The 3870x2 is rumored to be ~$400 which would put it at a very nice price. Article speculate the 9800gx2 around the same price, but I doubt that. I don't see nvidia pricing the 9800gx2 less than current GTX's and ultras. Just doesn't seem like good pricing strategy, but who knows.
And last I have heard, nvidias next gen cards have been pushed back to summer.
Link to OCforums discussion
--pak
For me , thats the thing that realy matters :Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinshou Kuma
Crossfire must be enable in CCC with one HD3870X2 ????
if so , then the games need to suport crossfire (same thing as 2x HD3870 CF )
regardss
It looks to me like the on-board chip is going to take care of the communication between the GPUs. Hardware X-Fire instead of software is in theory, much better. The system should not know the difference.
lets hope thats the case but ive seen some screenys on here (in sure i have) of windows device manager and it shows two gpus'Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner
That's the point: "Hardware" Crossfire should work with every game out there, if the driver is good. No need to work in every CF profile for every concrete game, always use AFR, that 3DMark perfomance translated to every game in every situation.
Bah sounds too good to be true. But let's hope so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
yep :
HD3870X2 Crossfire (4 GPUs)
http://aycu27.webshots.com/image/334...0629635_rs.jpg
http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/312...2686842_rs.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
if we need to ENABLE CROSSFIRE in CCC to HD3870X2 Works so its same thing as TWO HD3870 in CF (need CF profile) , thats the big question ........
regards
thats actually quite weird.
If its called 3870x2 because its got two gpu's onboard why are all of those called 3870x2? wouldnt that mean 4 cards?
can you run three of these?
--pak
That's because two of them are in CF. So Windows interpretes each GPU as a 3870X2, total of 4. Weird, but who cares about the names :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
CCC showing 4 GPUs is interesting. Now, with 2 3870CF I can only see one. As someone in this thread already posted, it can be an indicative of the possibility of multiple monitors conected to the "secondary cards" in the new driver.
No pak, you can only run two of these for a total of 4 GPUs.
mascaras I don't think we will have to enable CF running only one 3870X2. Not because it doesn't need it, but because it's already activated by default when the driver detects the card.
No because I had a 2900XT (ala close to 3870 performance) and Im not subjecting myself to AMD's driver team again, while they ain't got a true next gen part. 3870X2 does not entice me at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbornchild
Post what you like, it's a forum, Im posting my experience, pretty simple.
I look forward to what NVIDIA put out after 9800X2. :yepp:
Actually you can run even 4 in single system. but you'll be able to combine only two in XF since there's only one connection interface available. though with good skills you may use 4 of these cards for some GPGPU.Quote:
Originally Posted by pak
First half of this year is the time of the dual card "monsters"...not quite exciting...
Does anyone know if the production 3870 X2's will use solid caps? There's a few pics of pre-production models with tall electrolyte caps... :down:
Well the reference ATI ones that they showed @ CES08 had solid capacitors. The non-reference one that was posted a few pages back did have liquid filled capacitors. I think it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan
[edit] meh, nevermind [/edit]
pic of the one at CES?Quote:
Originally Posted by Qhs
Well I was just assuming from what was visible. The stock cooler was still on, but there are some visible solid capacitors (circled). Just assumptions from what I see. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
http://aycu32.webshots.com/image/382...8860191_rs.jpg
http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/379...4821691_rs.jpg
just have to wait and see ... only 2-ish weeks till lift off
Almost there... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
yeah, and i wish for two of them, hopefully around the £250 markQuote:
Originally Posted by Qhs
I don't even want to know what the prices are going to be in UK/Europe. I feel for yah man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
Two for me too, but hope it's a little lower than that in the US, like around $425 - $450.Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
I have no monies. T.T
Kind of funny how I was driving with few at back of my trunk during CES time.
So these cards are better than what is available on nvidia for time being? (No fanboyism comment please, these market always flips up around anyways)
That depends how you see it. With 1 card? Maybe, sure!Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
But you could just aswell have 2 HD3870 or 8800GT cards. Because this card also comes with all the CF issues like any GX2 would inherit SLI issues.
Its amazing neither nVidia or AMD can even have a working multimonitor solution yet or complete game support. It just show how half baked CF/SLI is and will always be.
So I wouldnt say its better. Its perhaps just a cheaper CF solution from the start.
would be nice... but i fear it will be closer to 300£ seeing how single 3870's go for 150£ and up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
I really can't wait for this card now. Anybody have a time machine?
That wouldn't be so bad - about £225 or $445.Quote:
Originally Posted by naokaji
usually prices on launch go from msrp to a higher price right?? so....$445 dlls would be very good to start, we just had to wait for drivers....don't expect perfect drivers at launch:down:Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_case
R680 scores 12056 with a x9650 (3.6X) at 2560x1600 with bios dated 1/14/08
OLD
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...dle/oldCCC.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...olderscore.jpg
CURRENT
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1.../R680_3d06.jpg
Impressive if accurate!
What I also find interesting/puzzling is that it scores higher in sm2.0 then sm3.0. A nice boost from a Q6600 giving 9573 3dMarks. If both scores were using a R680 at stock speeds.
Comparison Charts using 2560 and 1920
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t3D06_2560.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t3D06_1920.png
1279 mb ?
hypermemory ?
wtf ?
Impressive scores w/ the QX9650... two of these should break 30k easy
Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
yep , strange :
Memory Size : 1279MB
Memory Type : HyperMemory
R680 (HD3870X2)
http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/421...4636147_rs.jpg
(Bios date also from yesterday (2008/01/14) )
RV670 (HD3870)
http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/396...5371728_rs.jpg
btw:
no confirmation yet if HD3870X2 in games will act like single card or if the games need to be CF compatible (like 2x HD3870 CF) ??
regards
Weird scores, SM2.0 higher than 3.0?
I will trust it for now...
HyperMemory
Quote:
...ATI’s innovative technology that enables a reduction in the amount of on-board memory on a graphics card without compromising its overall performance.
Its advanced memory management technology makes more efficient use of all the available memory in computers with PCI Express...Graphics applications can share system memory and use fast on-board memory for real-time processing between the graphics card and the computer’s memory...
Larger, modern computer displays require increased graphics performance to look their best. Products with HyperMemory improve overall system performance and image quality, especially in larger monitors.
...is available in select...desktop graphics processors,...notebook graphics processors and...motherboard chipsets and may be enabled on certain ATI and ATI Partner products.
From what we have seen so far, it seems that one 3870 X2 is about to be as powerful (or lack of thereof depending on whether you are an Nvidia fanboy or not) as two 3870 in Crossfire. Results indicate approx. 90% of 3870 in CF or thereabout, which seems quite good given my previous experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Whether or not the 3870 X2 comes with the inherit SLI/CF related problems seems somewhat unclear yet and is still debated at various sites right now. Maybe our own Guru Mascaras can clear this out for us? Previous solutions from Nvidia, like the 7900 GX2 / 7950 GX2, did not have this syndrome as a “single card” solution but when connected to a second “single card” (as in Quad Sli) all hell was loose. Guess that we will know very shortly...
With regard to multimonitor solution from ATI, it seems like this will be supported with driver release 8.1 as it seems to be supported in the leaked 8.1 betas. Some fellow clanmembers that have installed the beta 8.1 driver are ecstatic over the solution provided but I guess it still remains to be seen for those of us those awaiting the final release. High hopes though. With the :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty wheater around around here these days, one cannot do anything but hope for some good tech news... ;)
Rob
That's been there since ATI's first drivers for Vista, in RC2 i first noticed that..Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35629/118/
Quote:
AMD moving up launch of dual-GPU graphics card
Sunnyvale (CA) – Industry sources are telling us that AMD will be releasing its dual-processor R680 graphics card one week early. The NDA on all the technical specs was due to lift on January 28th, but our source tells us this has been moved up to the 23rd. We’ve yet to get a confirmation from anyone at AMD.
:shocked: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Face
regardsQuote:
R680_Crysis 1.1_VeryHigh DX10_1280×800_0AA/0AF_8.451
http://www.itocp.com/attachments/mon...IxRkppvJ4S.jpg
QX9650
nForce 780i
2GB RAM
Driver 8.451
http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=225743
28fps is playable , i can only hope with better drivers this will be an animal :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papu
not 28 fps :
Average FPS = 21.7 FPS and only 1280x800 ( DX10 @ Very High)
regards
they say in thread that he was running in Window!Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
Normally Window = No CF
We need more leaks :p:
thats a heck of alot better then what i get now!, i get about 18 , everything on low!
LOL, whenever someone says with drivers, or better drivers i cannot help but laugh.
21 fps at that resolution is total crap. Crossfire is obviously not working correctly.
Yeah, that bench is garbage. CF can't be working. And who is going to buy a CF card for 1280x800? C'mon 1920x1200 @ very high benches.
Agreed, but I still wonder if it was even in 3d clock let alone if CF was enabled. But the use of 1280x800 instead of the traditional 1280x1024 and higher doesn't make any sense when the very same website was using 2560x1600 in 3d06Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock&Roll
http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/Rade..._449/5504.htmlQuote:
Radeon HD 3870 X2 Launch On Jan 23rd, Costs US$449
AMD has informed their partners that Radeon HD 3870 X2 (R680) launch has been pushed forward to 23rd January instead of 28th. Therefore, it will now be launched together with Radeon HD 3650 (RV635), HD 3450 (RV620) and 780G (RS780). The price point for Radeon is US$449 and stocks will hit the retail market by next week.
E8x00 and 3870x2 both comming out within 3 days of each other... onlineshops are going to have record sales in the week from 21st to 28th
in december it was said, that it will be below 400$.
So either this news is BS or it better be superior to 3870cf...
Radeon 3870X2 to launch on 23rd !!!
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=5176&Itemid=1
3 days after the intel chips!
thats normal crytek is against ati :) please more games at normal resolutions :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
Yea, I was also hoping for less than $400. Might as well wait for the 9800GX2 if it's really $450.Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
GX2 is rumored to be priced at $550-$600.Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter
We will see in a handful of weeks.
either way ill be owning 2 * 3870x2's :D
:up:Quote:
ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 Launch On January 23rd, Costs US$449
According to TG Daily, AMD will be releasing its dual-processor R680 graphics card one week early. The NDA on all the technical specs was due to lift on January 28th, but apparantly ATI/AMD have decided to step on the pedal and deliver the card on January 23rd. The upcoming R680 contains two graphics processors on a single board and will eventually allow four processor CrossFire mode on select motherboards. Pictures of the card as well as some early benchmarks can be found on our front page. Also note that the story is yet to be confirmed from anyone at AMD/ATI.
Source: TG Daily
http://www.techpowerup.com/?49837
So using 2 of these cards together will not be available on launch day. What does eventually mean? The driver for quad Crossfire will be completed in a couple weeks? a couple months?Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
I sure hope this means ALL i975X, Blitz, X38, and X48 boards. What would be the point of restricting it to just select motherboards?Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
The card itself is 'onboard CF' using 2 x 8 PCI-e lanes, needs a 16x PCI-e slot. So: 2 of these cards in CF need a motherboard that have 2 16xPCI-e slots. And i know the x38 boards are amongst the 'select'.
the price of the 3870x2 will be 449$ and will be out Jan 23. id say thats a dam good price. 2 of those for a grand, another grand for parts and cooling, got ur self a REAL gaming rig.
One week today! Get ready to finally sell your 8800's!
tbh ive pretty much gone and bought a new pc :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
board /. changed ram / will change cpu
I'll sell my 8800GT only if this card happens to be 30-50% faster in crysis
LOL only if it can beat the 8800GTS 512 in my favorite game. I play Supreme commander in Duel Screen mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
I have also done tests and 2 x 3870 V 8800GTS 512. GTS wins hands down.
In your case getting a new Yorky and clocking it to 4ghz would show better results. Supreme Commander is extremely CPU bound.Quote:
Originally Posted by X.T.R.E.M.E_ICE
I use a core optimizer on my Q6600 and i run it at 3.6ghz-3.8ghz. I have never seen more then total of 38% of combined cores used as of yet. Still have heaps of joice left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
I will most likely get 1 of these cards any way but if the single card runs Crossfire then i won't be able to play Dual monitor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeywoman
Don't know abou that. $450 is a pretty penny and the verdict is not out on this card yet. The $260 my 8800gt costs is hard to ignore and it puts spending $450 on a card in whole new perspective. If this card is inching out the 8800 Ultra for that price, it's not worth it, IMO.
Edit: I would need to see this thing in action before I buy. (but notice I haev an xfire mobo, so you know where I'm leaning)
I doubt anyone will be forced at gunpoint to spend 450 dollars on a video card. For you to assume this card might just edge the gtx is absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by iadstudio
Two 3850's equal one 8800gtx even at 1920 resolution in most games. So what makes you think two 3870's will be only inches away from a singel 8800gtx? It'll be atleast 25-40% faster then a singel 8800gtx and it will easily beat the 8800gtx ultra which still retails for 700+ bucks...
And don't forget the option of CF for a total of 4gpu's....Most people will upgrade just for that reason....Who wouldnt mind having 4 gpu's for 900 dollars killing both the gtx and ultra when considering the price.
i edited my post for a little more clarity. Ur right, it is a good price for that performance. don't get me wrong. And yes, that is a great price to get 2 killer GPUs and on 1 pcb. I'd love one, but it's tough to upgrade from the card I have considering its price performance rating. If this card can COMPLETELY change my 1920x1200 gaming experience then maybe I'll do it.
any chance of a 3870 price drop when this is released?
A 3870 price drop would make this card look very unattractive; I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by geo
If the 3870X2 performance equals 2x3870 CF... You can forget competition with GTX/Ultra, at least in games.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull78
To out-perform the 8800 Ultra, 3870X2 needs a 30% boost from 2x3870 CF and CF issues solved in games.
My conclusion is based on my own experience with 8800 Ultra/GTX/GTS 512 and 2x3870 CF at 1920x1200 resolution.
o rly ?
click me
It's an article, that's very unfair for ati with old driver and no exe-renaming, old game versions(demo versions sometimes), so real performance of 3870cf is even better.
But still,even with these issues 3870 is like +10% to ultra in 4xAA and +30% in 8xAA when looking at normal resolutions.
I can show you a recent benchmark where 2-3850's in cf is head to dead with a 8800gtx. So i think its fair enough to say 2-3870's should equal the performance that of a 8800ultra...How much faster do you think the ultra is compared to a normal gtx? 30% Noway......Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMike
You claim the ultra is 30% ahead of 2 3870's in cf ...At what settings? 16/16?
Show me proof.
Well as much as I wanted to go with one or 2 of these card the length of the Beast will be too much for when I get my Super Micro Hot Swap Drive Bays which are about 10" long by them selves:eek: So unfortunately the 9" HD 3870 in Crossfire is about what I can stand due to that reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMike
Quote:
Originally Posted by realsmasher
Bla, bla, bla. It depends mainly on the game and secondly the resolution/AA+AF. Sometimes CF 3870's dominate and sometimes they get owned by a single 8800GT. Hopefully this new card does NOT perform like CF or SLI. The card will be much less successful if it can't be consistent in performance across all game benchmarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull78
What are you talking about YUKON? CF is awesome with these new cards:up:
cf single card or cf dual card?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
I'm referring to 3870's in CF not 3870 X2's in CF. I never said either wasn't awesome, I just said that 3870's in CF are not always on top of Ultra, GTX, GTS or even GT. Lots of situations where a single 8800 card will pull ahead. It's just the way it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
$449 is a great price, IF the 9800GX2 is 499 or more
But many sites are reporting the 9800GX2 to be priced at $449. I was hoping for the 3870x2 to be at 399$
30% faster than slideshow.Quote:
Originally Posted by kite7
Wow-wee!
:P
I mean, Anything is possible.
Except that.
:P
What kind of "core optimizer"?Quote:
Originally Posted by X.T.R.E.M.E_ICE
I thought this card could not be Crossfired?Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
Any benchmarks?
Oh yes this card can be crossfired... on 2 x pci-e x16 boards.
From GPGnet forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinFlavored
http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?t=15556
oh yes :D i want two :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MuffinFlavored
+1 thats why i bought my x38Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbornchild
Question, could you run one of these in Crossfire mode with two 3870's? I would think that the other two would have no issues with the connection. Thoughts?
pretty sure it'll work on a p35 board with two pcie x16 like the mars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
Was that an answer to me or a comment to Origin_Unknown?