P45 is a better chipset IMO, 65nm vs 90nm, ich10 vs ich9, higher fsb's, only thing lacking is full 16x crossfire.
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P45 is a better chipset IMO, 65nm vs 90nm, ich10 vs ich9, higher fsb's, only thing lacking is full 16x crossfire.
if we can send people to the moon and back most of the time, I guess someone can figure out to fix the microstuttering ;)
and the p45 chipset seems to clock well.
nice i don't trust any of these review sites, they spill too much crap :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Indeed, P45 is so much better than X38/X48 in terms of overclocking... it's like plug'n'play... put 500FSB in BIOS, boot and enjoy :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by generics_user
yeah right now i'm limited by the temps, however once i finally finish the remod of my g70 and get these GPU blocks i really have to think of a new mobo, this abit one is no bad clocker but i have some bootissues with 2 graphics cards, sometimes i have to reboot up to 3 times until the dam thing recognizes both cards :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
soo many tnice things, p45, e8400 (i'm glad i got it, fps jumped from ~140 to 200+ with 3870 CF in CSS (1920x1200) and no more lags (from memory loading, big cache owns), hd 4850 :( and not enough spare money to waste on unneeded parts :rofl:
BTW: SPAIN FTW, GOOD GAME!!! ( i was in the fanzone in vienna =D )
That looks to me to be far more plausible than the tweaktown review....but yes, let us know single card, and CF performance on the P45 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
amypme got backside images of a 4870??
i want to verify wether i can reuse a full cover block on these cards (maybe i'll go for FC blocks for my 3870s) and take a look at the vrm mounting holes + memory chip placement (so i far i know that a watercool hk gpu-x² could fit if the 4870 makes use of the same vrm as the 3870s (4850 has the same as 3850...)
Having X48 over P45 makes quite a difference with CFX performance:Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/14...ion/index.html
most of the time? When did an apollo astronaut die in space? Only apollo 13 ran into major difficulties and they were fine in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by flopper
The russians on the other hand, weren't so lucky, but I agree, fixing micro-stuttering isn't rocket science, and I wouldn't be surprised if intel gets dual gpu right on their first try due to the nature of Larabee anyways
We've seen those results more than once 003, and what we're saying is that the test is either flawed, or the results have been skewed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Look at the Bit-Tech results, you'll see what i mean.
speaking of xfire, I wonder why 3 and 4 way xfire is scaling so poorly with the 4xxx series, they lose performance :/
i heard that 4870 beats GTX260 and stays behind 280 only 5%
is this true?
They are working on CFX for the 4800 series, a new driver should be out in the coming weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
You know it could also mean that the bit-tech results are flawed and/or skewed :) Not saying they are though. Do you have a link? I'd like to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Robinson
that could be possible, on average the 4850 is around 70%-80% of the gtx 280. If you take into account the 25% increase we've seen (with max details, 20% in general), then you're looking at a power very close to that of the gtx 280's, makes you wonder what the 4870x2 is capable of, and more importantly what the price will be. We all know amd is in no position to do what intel is to them (cut profits to kill your opponents' market share), so be prepared to pay $700 if the gtx stays at $650 and gets spanked by the r700Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHydes
How do you think the performance increase by hybrid crossfiring one 3870 and one 4850 will be?
Has anybody tried this? I'd be interested in some benches...
The relevant section is here:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...has-arrived/13
Notice that between the x48-dq6 and the P5Q-D, theres 1.3fps difference in it...the same difference that was shown in the THG article over here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-0,1915-9.html
See? Between 8x PCIe 2.0 (4GB/Sec) and 16x PCIe 2.0 (8GB/Sec), theres almost no difference.
And yes, the 9800GX2 reports the same non-difference as the Radeon 3850.
Envyyyy :D I can only imagine what are you living in Austria right now :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by generics_user
Uh is it only me but no one has figured how much cpu speed/power these new cards need to run at full power?
The 8800 series and 3800 series needed around 3.0 ghz it seemed so what does this new round need?
and some of these leaked reviews of the 4870 dont make sense they make it out to be slower then the 4850 which makes no sense. I think the ones that put it between the gtx260 and gtx280 are the most likely. And if I must say so myself the ones I hope to be real.
I'm to poor to have to uprade to a nehalem at 3.5 ghz or something to pull there full potential...Not to mention the bugs the new motherboards and cpu's will likely have.
Yes like Kai Robinson said, Toms and Bit tech were really close to one another....Tweak town was wayy off.........anyone, im going to test crossfire on monday here in the USA, its going to be a fresh install of vista x64, and xp sp3, clean drivers, its going to bring some clarity to P45 performance, as many of us users like the user reviews instead of the review sites. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Well, it depends on what test you do really.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHydes
I heard that 4870 loses to the 9600 GSO
How would that happen when the 4850 bests the 9800GTX? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
doesn't matter... i heard it :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan
I heard you have much to learn. Don't worry, you're in the right place to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
Fixed :up: :ROTF::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
That's true. The french website didn't sign any NDA as ATI don't bother to send them early samples for review. So the reviewers just went to buy a couple of HD4850 and no NDA implies they posted whatever they wanted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Hehe, true enough. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by iTravis
HD 4870 RV770XT card exposedQuote:
Originally Posted by generics_user
Attachment 80919
That card is sex. Buh-bye 8800GTS 640MB.
If that card is sex, you need to google 'Bianca Beauchamp' :D
Any word yet if a 3870 and 4850 will match in xfire? Gettin a 4850 this week, trying to decide if I should sell the 3870 or not.
PowerColor HD4870
http://www.powercolor.com/Global/NewsInfo.asp?id=231Quote:
Taipei, Taiwan – June, 25th, 2008 -- TUL Corporation – a leading manufacturer of AMD graphics cards today announced the new generation enthusiast graphics card – PowerColor HD 4870 and HD4850. Based on RV770 core chip, PowerColor HD 4870/4850 support GDDR3/GDDR5 high-speed memory, aim to deliver a superior visual performance.
PowerColor HD 4800 has adopted 55nm technology and is powered by ATI’s Radeon HD 4800 graphics processing units. For HD4870, its GPU and memory runs at 725MHz and 900MHz respectively with 512MB of GDDR5 on a 256-bit memory bus design, memory data transmission rates up to 3.6Gbps. As for HD 4850, it’s equipped with 512MB of GDDR3 on a 256bit memory bus design, while the GPU and memory run at 625MHz and 1986MHz respectively
Hmm...993 mhz GDDR3.... 900mhz GDDR5. Overclocking headroom, or fantastic yields binned on memory control? :hrhr:
I don't think they can. look at the chart firstQuote:
Originally Posted by CTM Audi
http://game.amd.com/us-en/content/im...hart_Dec07.jpg
HD 38xx series cards only can crossfire when they are using the same chip.
RV670pro and RV670XT is the same chip with different clock.
So i dont think RV670 and RV770 can CF
PS: dan, I just read this: ATI Radeon 4850/4870 mix and match with Radeon 3850/3870 in TGdaily
I didnt think they would, but there were reports yesterday that they did. One was from Fud though, and most likely not true.
no mention of the x48 chipset on the charts :p:
you talking about the news with a screenshot with GPU-z notification "Crossfire disable"?Quote:
Originally Posted by CTM Audi
i don't think that's ture....
ATI Radeon 4850/4870 mix and match with Radeon 3850/3870 Maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by CTM Audi
I don't expect you to be able to do it, AMD has stated that they can basically mix and match any card from the HD3 series but that cards with too much of a difference in performance will most of the time do you more harm than good. So a 4850 and a 3870 could probably work together in CFX, but they would most likely hardly perform any better in many cases than a single 4850. That's what I got from their message at least.
I wouldn't trust anything from Toms, was a member there for a year (had 6,500 posts there lol) and because of Jake Barnes's stupidity every knowledgeable person (myself included) was instantly banned and thus all that's left there is a bunch of n00bs and flame wars, not to mention they were bought out and the sweet old layout turned into the fugliest thing I've ever seen, and none of the staff know what they're doing either
yes and this is something you will be hearing in the near future with that knowledgeQuote:
Originally Posted by natty
http://blogs.nitobi.com/alexei/wp-co...nt_of_fail.jpg
that or "Aloha! Welcome aboard the failboat! We expect to be sinking in 9 hours, enjoy your trip!"
In other words, if it doesn't make sense, generally its not true
Grind that axe a little more :pQuote:
Originally Posted by AliG
An axe? Get something decent, something you only have to fire once, that's the preferable weapon :p:. Oh well, I guess Iron Man is still sticking around in my head....
I think Tom's HW just reposted the results from the HKEPC forum page.
Internet is throwing tantrums so I can't check. Anyone?
I did, it doesn't work (at least I could get it to work). Wizzard also tried it and had no success.Quote:
Originally Posted by adpr_02
Oh okay. Saves me some time. I was about to install a hd4850 + hd3850 setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl
Just a quick question for anyone who can help me. When the 4870x2 is released are Ati going to be releasing a 2GB variant of the card? I am sure i read somewhere Ati are going to let other manufacturer's decide to whether they want to add extra's such as more ram etc to the cards... Ati allowed Diamond to do this with the hd2900 cards, there was a limited number of diamond 1gb hd2900 cards around.
Also do you think more ram say 2GB would bring any significant advantage other the other cards. I know the Diamond 1GB 2900 cards didn't improve the performance much, only a couple of fps.
hmm, I doubt that will happen simply because there aren't large capacity gddr5 chips out yet, they'd have to probably lace either the entire board with memory chips or put them on the backside also to fit 2gb on a single pcb
2GB of memory won't be beneficial, at least in a gaming environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by azza21
That's a nice shipQuote:
Originally Posted by AliG
So what are we looking at a 1GB 4870x2 available at launch or less? Also will the 1GB gddr5 x2 cards cost alot more then the 512mb versions? Anyone have any idea of the price at this time or is a it a guessing game at the mo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
What do you mean 512mb x2? There's only going to be a 1gb gddr5 x2, unless if AIBs decide to give a card 2gb of memory, but that shouldn't be necessary if the shared memory thing is true as that is essentially the same as 2 1gb 4870s in xfire
But that shared memory is probably not true....
Although I do hope it is, but I'm pretty sure it's not :(.
BTW, why is everyone suddenly so concerned about memory size on these cards, if history tells us anything then we won't have to worry with 1GB for at least another year. For the ATI cards that is, it's a bit different on the NVIDIA side atm.
Any chance of a 4780 or 4870x2 AIW? :D Should I hold my breath? I miss them. :(
That shouldn't be needed if clamshell mode is used in GDDR5 application in HD 4870 board. Problem is, it hasn't been implemented in the reference board at the moment IMHO, perhaps the AIB will implement it later in their own version of HD 4870 card -in house designed PCB ala HD 3870 Toxxxic from Sapphire, so the existence of 1 GB HD 4870 won't solely be determined by the availability of 1 Gb GDDR5 chip.
CJ@B3D confirms HD4870 is fast and beats GTX260 in some cases
LinkQuote:
Originally Posted by CJ
It's just that I don't put much value in 3Dmark scores, not for buying a gaming card at least. I would if I were to aim for some kind of overclocking benchmark world record or something like that, I'm just not into that.
So -->> waiting for game benchmarks is all there is to it and the card is supposed to be unwrapped in 2 days anyway. Not doubting the fact that it's fast though, I'm quite sure we won't be disappointed.
Well the feature tests on Vantage are pretty good at seeing the different parts of the card (fill rate, shader performance, etc.) and those look promising (since the 4800's always seem to lose at the GPU cloth test anyways, but it beats the GTX260 at all the other tests so it has a lot of power)
512MB at launch for sure, and I think 1GB to follow soon after. Due to price, availability, demand, and practicality, a 2GB version will probably never see the light of day. If there is one, it will probably be way after initial launch due to the above reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by azza21
As for price, I think we'll hear many different numbers up until launch, but so far I believe it's estimated in the $500 range. However, considering AMD's recent success and Nvidia's decline in the stock market, and the possibility of the X2 stomping the GTX280, we may see a card as high as $700.
I want a 4870, but this has me worried.
I'm still on PCI-E 1.1 16x which is basically PCI-E 2.0 8x. 4870 will require more bandwidth than 4850, and if a 2.0 8x slot isn't enough for one 4850, then 4870 will choke. Not good.
We were arguing over this a page or so back...
And that tweaktown review is the only review that is showing such poor scaling on a P45 chipset compared to a X38/X48. It can make a difference with flight simulator X but that is about the only game I can think of.
AIW was killed awhile ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by Your_Boss
It shouldn't be missed.
Shared memory is most likely clamshell mode for GDDR5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
I take it you understand the whitepaper?Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
Why would it need to be "implemented" on the board?
ffs wot is clamshell mode? :lol: is that like put-head-in-sand-mode?cos that's the mode i run in :hehe:
where's my macbook.
from "the whitepaper" link...Quote:
Operation in clam shell mode has no impact on
system band width.
Example: System configurations with 512M GDDR5 device using a controller with 256 bit interface:
A) 8pcs of 512M GDDR5 in standard mode ➔ Frame buffer: 512 MB
B) 16pcs of 512M GDDR5 in clamshell mode ➔ Frame buffer: 1 GB
Haha :rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsleath
Looks like i need to do some reading...:rolleyes:
Clamshell mode for GDDR5 does not do what you say it does. Clamshell mode allows for a single memory controller to access 2 memory chips, it does not allow for 2 memory controllers to access a single chip. So no shared memory through clamshell mode because a single memory chip can only cope with 1 controller and not 2, which is need for your shared memory approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEC911
Basically clamshell mode allows you to use the same 512Mbit chip for both a 512MB 256-bit card using 8 chips and a 1GB 256-bit card using 16 chips. That's also what spursindonesia is referring to.
Thermalright has updated their VGA Compatibility charts stating that many cooling solutions work on 4850/4870.
I might get the V2. I'm a sucker for copper :). http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_pa...age/v2_mcl.htm
Thank you, that makes more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
thank you, lets stop spreading this nonsense. clamshell mode has nothing to do with letting 2 gpus share memory, if it was that easy it would have been done already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
@LordEC911, i don't think the reference HD 4870 PCB is designed to accommodate 16 GDDR5 chip on it.
@Helmore, thx for the kind explanation mate, appreciated. :)
Is the release date for 4870 still on the 25th? Or has it been pushed back?
25th is the day still I believe
cannot wait
Can somebody explain to me the differences between the 4850 and the 4870?
From what I understand they've got the exact same core, only different clocks which the 4850 will easily reach wit a bit of water.
The memory, though, the 4850 has 512mb clocked at 990mhz while the 4870 has 512mb clocked at 900mhz....
I know the latter has gddr5, but is it actually faster at 900mhz than GDDR3 is at 900?
Yes, GDDR5 operates at 900Mhz but its effective memory is actually a multiple of 4 so GDDR5 900Mhz = 3.6 Ghz effective. GDDR3 at 990 MHz = 990 x 2 = 1980 Mhz effective.
Also, the 4870 operates at a 20% higher clock, has a dual slot cooler, but requires 2 x 6 pci-e pin connectors.
http://translate.google.com/translat...sl=zh-CN&tl=en
Great success! 4870 CF here i come :) Little less performance then GTX 280 at almost half the price :up: I'm surprised it even beat the 280 at 1900 res with AA turned to the max :D
WOW, I did not know that about the memory. Hm... any word on how much more expensive this will be than the 4850?
Good cooler or bad cooler, it comes off for the water, and the card gets vmodded either way, but still. That ram speed sounds nice:).
it's rrp is $300Quote:
Originally Posted by adpr_02
just occured to me, what PSU can handle 4870 CF? coz i usually only see PSU's with 2x 6-pin connectors
Most "good" 550+ watt ones have 4 x 6-pins... heck my Corsair HX620 has 2 x 6-pin and 2 x 8-pin
Supposedly it does, front and back with 8 on each side.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
Qimonda is also "launching" their 1Gbit IC's on July 8th.
Hopefully this is an accurate reflection of what most reviews will conclude, 4870>GTX260Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
So far it's looking very promising. ^^
ah thanks, missed that. checked the p45 bit-tech review. indeed tweaktown's crysis results are off; the other results seem plausible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Robinson
My 1000HX has 2x8pin PCIE and 2x6+2pin PCIE. Guess i'm valid for CF :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by emoners
my seasonic m12 700W has 4 6-pin pci-e connectors.Quote:
Originally Posted by emoners
Still using my enermax noisetaker 495P, I'm gonna adapter that shiet. She'll be fine gov'na!
Very impressive if that review is accurate. I am somewhat concerned about their power usage figures however. For a card with a TDP of 160W when you see it load around the same mark as the GTX 280 it makes you wonder.
Hopefully with the fan at 50% the 4870 will load in the 80s at the very least. Seeing the 4850 at 97C with 70% fan speed is not impressive. They did mention that the cards have the same heatsink mounting holes as the HD3800s so at least that would mean many current aftermarket sinks would work with the 4800s. I'm not to keen on putting the fans on these things above 50% ( and even then they'd be too loud for me if they are anything like the 3870 fans )
As long as they don't choke in a few keys games (mainly WiC and AoC, two games which prove to rape the G92 at 19x12 with AA ), It looks like I'll be passing on the 280. Still remains to be seen whether or not the 4870x2 will be more impressive than CF4870s but its hard to say at this point. The 4870x2 will be clocked lower and won't clock as high I'm sure so 2 individual 4870s should technically do better but that all rests upon the interconnect on the new board. Either way I'll probably try the 4870s for a month and if the X2 is notably better I can just take them back. Its been a good 2 and a half years since I had my x1900xt so hopefully going from 8800s in sli to 4870s will be a pleasant change.
I'll be fine for either 2x4850's, or 1x4870....decisions, decisions....
I has this: http://www.antec.com/uk/productDetails.php?ProdID=17481
1x4870, end of story. Skip CF of you can.
Everyone was complaining about the GTX 280 power consumption. According to that review, the 4870 consumes more at idle, and almost as much at load. :shocked:
I just noticed this now but these cards seem to be anti aliasing monsters. What ever ATI did, it did the trick. Matching the 280 at 1920x1200 8xAA is damn impressive. As long as VRAM isn't a bottle neck, these should be awesome cards for high IQ gaming.
As far as skipping CF, its either 2 Ati cards or 1 280 for me. I'd sooner have nearly as good performance in non supported games and noticeably better performance in supported games considering this is the same price we are talking. That may change though as I can't see Nvidia staying competitive with the 4870x2 ( or even the 4870 for that matter ) with their current prices.
As far as power consumption goes though all the cards of this performance level have basically used alot of power. Considering the dual gpu cards use just as much if not more than a 280, its nothing to complain about really. Less would still be better but I still find it weird that a 4870 which has roughly 400 million less transistors, runs lower voltage and uses half as much vram ( which is more efficient as well ) as the 280 yet still peaks around the same amount? Something has to be wrong there.
For those interested, in this review they broke the NDA and exposed the rv770 architecture. It's in French tho'.
http://www.presence-pc.com/tests/Radeon-4850-22794/
Well, considering the amount of money you save, you can buy 2 1000W power supplies :)Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
Nvidia needs to get the GTX 260 down to $349 before ATI gets their 1GB cards to that price point and make it completely useless.
Perkam
I'm so in for a 4870 now but I don't know if I should go for a 512MB or a 1GB version. I really wanna do CF so let's just wait for some more benchies and better driver from ATI. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
powerplay isn't working correctly yetQuote:
Originally Posted by natty
it will with C 8.7
Tempting though it is, surely a pair of 4850's would give better performance? Microstuttering is one thing i've never noticed, i already wear glasses, so my eyesight isn't great.
When you look at their comparison charts they average out with the 4870 being 10% slower than a GTX 280 in both no AA / AA. When you think about that, the current MSRPs seem even more absurd (350vs650). AMDs own slide claimed "performance within 20% of the GTX280 but at half the price" and its looking like it is true and then some. Sure it is still only one review but its extremely promising non the less.
i'm going to watch everyone else take the plunge and then decide :D
meantime i have my gardening hobby...brachyscome multifida, dianella longifolia....
Cool, since I'm french, I'll be able to understand the meaning of such a change in performance :DQuote:
Originally Posted by LowRun
maybe the R600 wasn't so bad, it was just probably missing a few things that they integrated into the R700 :up:
If you're gonna wait for the 1GB version wait until the 4870X2. But if it's CF on a card nope. ATI will never do a good driver for CF, at least in my life. So I wouldn't put too much faith in that :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by iTravis