Possible 4870x2 ? :D
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Possible 4870x2 ? :D
Umm yeah. . R700
The black is pretty sweet looking.
When are the 4870 and 4870x2 supposed to be launched? From the 4850 reviews i'm seeing that the 4870x2 would beat the GTX 280 hands down, in every game.
4870 is out on the 25th of June while the 4870x2 is unknown but is looking like July/August
hehhehehe :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
I've been ithcing to get a replacement for my 8800 GTX. Now 2 4850's would fit the bill nicely and not cost a ton of money and I'd probably still be okay with my 500w Ennermax Liberty PSU.
On the other had getting two 4870's would probably just make me cream my pants :ROTF:
So the initial launch of the 4870's is going to be 512MB cards right? If so, I'll be waiting on the 1GB ones.
I'm so happy that ATI finally got their act together and I hope they sell laods of these cards... Gamers that will get these latest generation cards are spoiled as we get a good increase in performance at an affordable price level, but quotes like Bob's really turn me off big time... so silly, maybe it's me that shouldn't react at all and be smarter :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
Hope that 4870(X2) kicks butt too...:up: I just got a good deal on the 280GTX (370 euro's) and will cherish that card like I did with my 8800GTX... and I don't need to turn up the heater anymore... it's an all in one package :D
Lol. Well I hope these sell like hotcakes but so far, 2 stores here have them for $299 :(. Oh well, I'll just wade the 'new card madness' and buy them in a month or two.
It's always a good day when the consumer walks away the winner :D
Hey why is there only 1 crossfire connector madoobie in the R700 pic?
drivers right now only support a max of 4 gpus, and if this limit remains there is no sense to make more connectors.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
Because 1 connector = 2 cards, and they won't let you exceed 4 GPUs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
EDIT- LOL same reply in 1min :p
Because you can only crossfire 2x HD 4870X2.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
Otherwise you could have 8 GPUs rendering in 4x HD4870X2. 8 Tera-Flops :p:
"2nd generation PCI Express bridge design", also known as PCI-e 2.0?
So it's confirmed that what they have done is changed the pci-e bridge to a pci-e 2.0 one?
No, they change a lot more, but u´ll see soon enough :D
R700 is way more than R680 was...
So you really only need to have 1 bridge on 2 4850s right? Why does everyone whack both on?
It thats true in august/september i sell the GTX280 i step-up to, but with PhysX driver for GTX280 the 4870X2 and 4870CF might not be so clear winner after all if ATI does not add the same thing to their cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
But with the issues CF/SLI always has the increase has to be substantial to consider the multi-GPU X2:s/4870CF.
Actually, a LOT of Crossfire problems using Catalyst 8.3+ were exactly due to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
Previously 2 bridges = 2 cards, now only 1 is needed since 8.3. And there was flickering. Everywhere. For those still with 2 on.
I guess this is solved now however.
It's been rumoured that the PhysX driver is useless for other PhysX stuff AS OF NOW, besides Vantage and UT3 mod.
But I can see Futuremark correcting the scale- this might get very lame.
So this August/September launch is FUD?Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
Ahh ok. Cheers.
It isn't FUD (8 weeks rumour is true), but the tech specs will ALL be exposed come June 25.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xello
Inintial testing met with no success. The 4850 would disable itself and the driver wont load. I'll try once more with newer drivers found on ASUS ftp (8.503 as opposed to 8.500 found on driver CD that came with the card).Quote:
Originally Posted by Papu
so they solved the bus communications and the scaling is then pretty decent?Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
I just hate that the decisionmaking what cards to get is not open with all info yet.
:up:Quote:
HD4000 Hotfix
This Hotfix improves overall performance and stability. The Hotfix includes the Display Driver and Catalyst Control Center.
http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...asp?deptID=894
Source: Vr-Zone Forums
Anyone tried these yet? I would like to know what kind of performance gains is will give, if any....
I tried and they give me black screen when windows login prompt should pop up. Catalysts 8.6 also dont work.
RV770 X-Ray:
http://s1.directupload.net/images/080620/npcr22yj.jpg
Source Dutch Tweakers.NET Forum:
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/...ssage/30281951
I'm assuming you have or will update your own results?Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
so, 32 or 40 tmus?
They're saying 40.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrobozo
It seems that perhaps AMD's influence on chip design is paying off. I'm curious to see the actual architecture the new R7xx..!Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
Anand Shimpi has hinted that ATI's core is quite impressive/interesting, even though his hands are tied by the NDA, it seemed as if he really wants to discuss what ATI/AMD have done.
So depending on how far ATI/AMD is thinking ahead about scalability, I really do see the 4870 is a premier Card. At least for the majority of gamers that I know of. Most if not all gamers are using 21" & 24" monitors, resolutions beyond 1920 x 1200 really are meaningless to most. So I think ATI is going in the right direction.
A 1gig 4870 for $350 sounds about right for 80% of the people I know!
10 effective pipelines, 4 per pipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrobozo
it's actually almost more than that, thanks to added functionality of the "slave" shaders. There's absolutely no direct comparison now. We need a standardized gpgpu app to test cards to determine which is faster, really..even games aren't accurate testing as scheduling of pixels in flight can change from driver to driver, completely skewing any results...think like G80...with the "missing MUL"....it's only missing in certain situations(most situations, but that's besides the point).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
hmm, I guess that we'll never truly see the full potential of any r600 derivitive (including the r600 itself) for a long time, but once that happens, NVIDIA's going to need a life time supply of butt-plugs because they're going to be raped
Yup 10 quads of TUs (40 TUs), these are not the full TMUs that the R(V)6xx series had though.Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
To Hornet331, there are only 10 cores actually, just like on the GT200 which also only has 10 cores. Compared to the 8 cores on G80 and 4 on the RV670/R600.
About that MUL, the MUL on G80 was basically nowhere to be found, there are some guys that tried to find it (on beyond3d for example) but without any succes. This is different on the GT200, there the SPs can do this 'dual issuing' (calculating 1 MADD + 1 MUL (3 FLOPs per SP in other words)). This 3 FLOPs per SP per clock is what gives the GTX280 it's 933 GigaFLOPs, it would have 622 GigaFLOPs if it could not do this. The 8800GTX was advertised as being able to do 518 GigaFLOPs, but that is with being able to do this MUL and in reality it could do 346 GigaFLOPs. But the GTX2x0 is not always utilizing this extra MUL, I'll quote TechReport on this one:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14934/5Quote:
Originally Posted by TechReport
Oh and it should give the GT200 +50% extra computing power, they are a little off with their +33%. Those Vantage tests are pretty much completely shader dependent BTW.
I think you are a exaggerating a bit, but ATI/AMD sure is in a lot better shape than it was about 1 year ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
I'm seeing 5-8% in vantage, most notibly the flag test and Jane Nash. '06 performance is basically the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
And yeah, I'm aware of "the MUL".:ROTF:
The NVIDIA way of wishing you luck goes something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
"May the MUL be with you, Luke".
I hope R700 is a beast....
LEt's put it this way....3870 Quadfire gets about E62xx in Vantage @ 877/954(CCC max), Phys-X and 4ghz QX9650.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dmv=179377
4870x2 is supposed to get E7xxx?
:slobber:
Well that probably because RV770 is a bigger change in microachitecture from RV670 than GT200 was from G92. Quite a lot has changed actually, no ringbus but more of a hub, TMUs are different, Shader units have also gotten some refinement, RBEs are larger and there is extra functionality build in to make sure that the R700 can be made. That list one is quite a departure from the R680, here they are claiming (dutch source, you might have to grab yourself a translator) that the RV770 chip has it's own PCIe bridge build in and therefore won't be needing a PLX chip, or get a smaller (proprietary) one. The R700 board is smaller because of this, quite a surprise actually as R700 will probably draw more power than R680 and it will still be a shorter board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
There probably are a couple more things to mention but these are probably the most significant changes.
That could explain the early arrival of that hot-fix, there barely are any results in that article :p:.
BTW AnXioZ, your avatar is disgusting :p:.
to the guys who already got one 4850 - is the mount mechanism(mount holes) the same as on the 3870?...
...so that coolers which can be used with the 3xxx series can be used also here with the 4xxx series:)
The article is yet to be posted on their website that's why :)
BTW Thanx :D
Actually there are no reports of a July release for the R700 that I am aware of. For now, we are talking August 15th as a best case scenario. It could easily be delayed further. If there are any unforeseen problems it could be October before we see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Hunter
Let's not forget how ambitious the R700 is if it's true that it seeks to connect the two GPUs in some way that is not Crossfire. Sort of like what the CPU folks have been doing for a while now, but for GPUs. If AMD can make the two GPUs look like one functional unit to the OS and drivers it will be a major milestone for PC graphics cards. A huge step forward. And it will vindicate AMD's new design philosophy for GPUs. The 6 month refresh could be a 4870x4, and then a summer refresh could be a 4870x8, and then a 4870x16 etc. Although, as some have mentioned wrt a GTX295 GX2, cooling could be an issue. Remember that GPUs don't have the scaling problem that CPUs have. Graphics processing is an "embarrassingly parallel" problem domain. SLI and CF (usually AFR) is basically a crude 3DFX era hack. That's why it doesn't scale much past 2. If doubling the amount of stream processors is so effective for this generation there is no reason why doubling the number of GPUs couldn't do the same. At least in theory.
And to those of you who are reminding us of how a 4870x2 should utterly clobber a GTX280 in every game, remember that that is only true if AMD succeeds with this idea of eliminating "crossfire" from their dual GPU cards. Otherwise it would only be true for those games that fully support crossfire. Currently there are quite a few that do not. And for older games that isn't likely to change no matter how popular the R700 becomes. And that is not even considering the microstuttering or lag issues that continue to plague SLI/CF. Until someone is willing to break NDA and actually tell us, it will remain a mystery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnXioZ
Haha what is this noob saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by VR-Zone
Yes. The four main holes are exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by AAbenson
:rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Oh, SNAP!!!! You mean they will support the card they have just released with new drivers in the future? Wait! These "drivers" will "iron out" bugs(what are those? I don't get the jargon.) and stab-o-rize the product? AMD is too good to us!
This whole supporting your product with beneficial "drivers" could flip the tech industry on its ear! :clap: Bravo, Vr-zone, for getting the scoop on this whole product support business! Bravo! :clap: :rofl:
:rolleyes:
I am also curious about this. The last time I was looking at ATI cards (an X850 maybe?) Sapphire was regarded as an excellent manufacturer IIRC, with lots of fancy cooling solutions etc. Now I am told not to buy anything from them, ever. So who is the best then? Is there an Evga of the ATI world? It looks like Asus and MSI make cards. My immediate inclination would be to buy my 4870x2 from Asus or MSI, since they are familiar to me as motherboard manufacturers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morais
Asus is pretty good. HIS has good coolers.
Speaking of HIS, I wonder if they'll reveal the Ice Q 4 cooler, the 3 was good but I heard it wasn't enough for the 850 core 3870
We no longer need this thread now that the new reviews are out. Plus the 4850 Preview thread needs to be renamed to the Official 4850 Review Thread.
Perkam
Half the pages don't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnXioZ
hello.
this card is really very hot! 63ºc idle and the cooper heatsink is HUGE hot!
shappire 4850.
I like how the only pages they do put up makes the 4850 look like crap, rather they took it down totally and posted the whole thing instead of what they have currently.
FYI Visiontek Radeon HD4850's are 149.00 + tax without coupon or AR out the door @ BestBuy today ;)
Instore, 25% off all VisionTek products. Good luck.
Who wants 4850 CF on your intel boards for $298?
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...uid=0&t=850075
As expected, there's no way the price in my country would only be 10% more expensive compared to USA price, now it seems HD 4850 really shows it low production cost advantage over competitor, 169-179 US$ seems to be de facto price for it in USA. And the card hasn't really been officially launched, talking about super duper hard launch continuation, LOL.
What about rv770 discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
People still not realizing that this card isnt hot, its the fan that is set to 10~20% at idle and about 60% at load.
imma see if i can get 2 of em.
That is the reason why it's hotter than Death Valley in August. These chips put out a lot of heat. Active cooling is required. That means a fan. The only reason that the 4850 can get away with single slot cooling is because it was so underclocked. The GPU itself is just a lower binned 4870, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morais
They are in essence lower binned 4870 chips and the top chips will probably go to the 4870X2 in the hopes of keeping power consumption in check on that one. That's my guess though but I can't be too far off as this is also basically what NVIDIA does for their G92 chips and it's probably the wisest thing to do.
BTW, I still have no confirmation on whether PowerPlay is currently working on the 4850. AMD is saying that this is the 2nd generation PowerPlay for the desktop, and 5th for the laptop, so this could mean that drivers for that are not finalized yet. Could anyone confirm this? I remember w0mbat having said so once, but I can't remember where and when. (and my memory isn't all too stellar :p:)
If the HD4870 is expected to be launch on June 25th then we should have some benchies by now, maybe over the weekend? Besides higher clock and GDDR5, are there any differences between HD4870 and HD4850?
Ahh this is the HD 4000 Series Thread, not HD4850 thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I would guess most of the people posting here, will be getting the HD4870/ HD4870X2 and dont really care about the HD4850
Any one in the know have more info on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kbos
100% scaling?
To answer your last part:
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2...archlx4.th.gifhttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6...llervu5.th.gif
I believe they have been posted before on this very thread and I'm not sure what the source was (they are not mine). Source was Extremetech.com, but it has been taken down.
That CrossFireX sideport is probably part of the trick, a dutch site has also stated that the PLX chip will be gone, or at least it's a different (smaller footprint/package) chip. That's because the R700 card is smaller than R680.
Also remember that the Ringbus memory controller is gone now and some sort of a hub has taken it's place.
EDIT: fixed...
EDIT2 :p:: for whatever it's worth for some, here is the official announcement of ASUS' 1GB 4850.
In france cards are selling from the 10 june ... the resellers didn't respect the NDA. ... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Power play is not full active. 500mhz at idle with the 4850
Madcho, did you hear any rumour of 175Mhz Powerplay clock, or something near that?Quote:
Originally Posted by madcho
I think there were rumours of that running around.
This thread should stay up until at least the 4870 is out.
Attachment 80760Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
Even the gtx280 burns less power than hd4850 when idle:shrug:
Yeah it seems drivers don't support PowerPlay yet. That's the reason for high idle temps and power consumption. GPU is running close to full speed even in 2D.Quote:
Originally Posted by drjunk
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2299/58380657wb6.jpg
RV770pro codename is "Makedon" named after Terry Makedon, inventor of Catalyst.
RV770XT codename is "Trojan". So that explains the cartoon.
I have a P35 board and I'm thinking that I'll be held back if I don't go to PCI-e 2.0, considering the Crossfire test done and the final results. Am I right in my reasoning? Need to know if I have to purchase a P45 board or not. I don't plan on going Crossfire, so I won't need X38/X48, unless I can find an X38 used at a good price.
EDIT: OMG some people are stoopid!
My guess is, you will be fine with PCIe gen 1 as long as you stay single card. There is also some communication between the 2 cards through the PCIe slots when running CFX and this adds to the need for PCIe gen2.
Oh that cartoon would have been true if AMD had kept a wrap on the 4850. Before the NDA was lifted we all knew how the card performed. This gave nVidia a heads up [9800GTX+].
I think that ATi should think about some new slogan for their advertisements like:
"HD4850: New meaning of paper release."
Haha yes not meaning to sound too much like an nVidia fanboy again (nVidiot), but ATi have still not quite got a launch right.
However I think that this Launch is perhaps the BEST ATi Launch ever. I mean seriously would you rather reviews come months before cards hit the shelves?
OR what we have now, cards out in the wild and then ATi having to lift NDA's the market being flooded etc before Toms Hardware and other review sites can get their reviews out on paper!
I am looking forward to the HD4870.....but ONLY if they do a 1GB model, I have read around on ASUS site that it looks like they might not be doing a 1GB model...if that is true then I may be saving for the Zotac AMP GTX280!
If not
Then 2x HD4870 1GB cards for me :p:
John
i think some partners will do a 1gb 4870 but don't know if it will be out with the 4870 512mb or latter
I hope it is out next week :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_d
Then I'll be back on the red :up:
would be nice to leave the green collective :p:
will thr r770 support soft particles in OpenGL?
The hd38xx did not :(
John
Looks like Connect3D will have a 1GB model.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
http://www.technodiscount.com/webmar...php?p_id=12026
I guess that card will be xtreme:clap::up:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
the only thing i heard is 300mhz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
Wicked thanks Lowrun :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by LowRun
Does anyone know if the HD4800 series supports soft Particles in Quake Wars, if not...why not?
I mean these are DX 10.1 cards so surely support everything and the kitchen sink! (well everything except physx).
Indeed Mr flopper
would hope that 2x HD4870 1GB cards would be more extreme than my G92 GTS! I love this card to bits but high res FSAA with AF struggles a wee bit in new games. :(
John
I have only seen slides, of which we aren't even sure whether they were legit, that said these cards will consume 10Watts when idle. That 300 MHz. is what the 3870 clocked to when idle though and I think that a RV770 has to go lower than that to be able to draw only 10 watts when idling.Quote:
Originally Posted by madcho
Alien Technology?Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
ATI could infact support Physx, they would need to adopt CUDA to there own CTM system, nvidia have already said they could adopt cuda, so its upto ATI if they do or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
ATI apparently has more faith in open standards like Brook+ and OpenCL and their backing goes to those coding languages. BTW, Brook+ is basically born in the same place as CUDA :p:, it's just that Brook+ is open source and CUDA is not. Otherwise check this article on ATI's doing in GPGPU:Quote:
Originally Posted by madmossy
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14968
Interesting... I smell driver mods/hacks or something which may perhaps "wrap" one to the other.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Still ATI need to support Physx, not just because nvidia do, but because unfortunately for us nvidia have the largest market share and they will push it, if its not supported in hardware we end up with a situation where some software titles get a massive boost over others for different hardware brands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
This can already be seen with 3dmark vantage making use of the physx acceleration offered by the 9800's gtx 260/280's.
Atleast one this is good though, with ati and blizzard teaming we should see a drastic increase in ati's market share, with 10 million people seeing "made for ati etc" as they fire up wow it should sell alot more cards.
I have a big feeling that FM might release a 3DV 1.02 and change the scoring on PhysX and CPUs. Since unlike the PPU, the GPU has to work on other stuff when gaming, and pure speed in Vantage is not representative of the gaming experience/speed with PhysX otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by madmossy
Go WoW!Quote:
Originally Posted by madmossy
:rofl:
However, love the commerials Blizzard are doing, when a game even as it is now gets into tv-series, commercials even as it is popular that would give ati a good push.
http://kotaku.com/gaming/clips/new-w...ner-325030.php
When even capt Kirk is joining you know its good.:D
Big thread, so I'm just gonna pipe in for a quick question. What's confirmed about the 4870? Is it just a faster core with more memory bandwidth? Is the reference card going to have 1GB of vram or just 512?
The 4850 and 4870 will both have the same chip, both the full version so no disabling of parts. Clocks on the 4850 are 625 MHz. and for the 4870 it's 750 as reference speeds. 4850 will have 512MB GDDR3 at just under an effective clock of 2 GHz. (64 GB/s bandwidth) and the 4870 will have 512MB of GDDR5 with an effective clock of 3,6GHz. (115GB/s bandwidth). That's the specs for the reference design cards. There will of course be makers of boards with standard overclocked versions and more RAM, there have already been reports/announcements and sightings of boards with 1GB of RAM for both the 4850 and 4870.Quote:
Originally Posted by munim
I have a small request. I have 2 7900gto's, and am looking to upgrade my videocard's because they dont support the required refresh rate for my new monitors native resolution (1920x1200 60hz). I am torn between the 8800gts for $159 after MIR and the 4850.
the request is if someone with an 8800gts and a 4850 could go the everquest 2 trial download, and see what one runs it better. or if you all ready have it, tell me how it performs.
i know its an odd request, but there arent too many people reviewing this game, and its the one i spend most of my gaming time on. I would just snag the 8800gts up, but ive heard of issues with the 8x00 series cards and eq2.
thanks!
Well the 4850 is already cheaper than a 8800GTS512 here in the Netherlands and the 4850 is quite a bit faster on average than the 8800, especially when you crank up the AA and AF. Maybe you should check out performance of the 3870, a 4850 performs close to twice as fast as a 3870.Quote:
Originally Posted by rozzyroz
Hmm, i'm not sure WoW is the best game to partner with to sell cards, it runs pretty well on a Radeon 9800. I wonder what the logic is in this partnership.Quote:
Originally Posted by madmossy
One would presume they are likely to bundle a 10day trial or something with the ATI cards, or more importantly optimise WoW2 around a ATI architecture. 10million users is a nice base to have if and when a sequel comes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xello
If I told you that Best Buy has the Visiontek 4850 for $150 (25%), would that change your mind? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rozzyroz
there are a total of 84 games that use PhysX. there are over 150 that use Havok which is soon to be adopted by ATI. Nvidia might have the upper hand now but when physics acceleration is added to Catalyst then there would be more benefit to own a Radeon card. BTW starcraft 2 uses Havok, that might be a push for ATI.
Don't forget Starcraft II that is released sometime this H2 :)
Starcraft 2, their unknown, un-named 'next generation MMO', anything else they might bother with.. Diablo 3, etc :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xello
http://kotaku.com/gaming/world-of-st...mmo-255852.php
here in PT HD4870 512MB already anounced for next week (28th)
price = 279€ (512MB GDDR5 version)
regards