Apogee GTZ

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08-15-2008, 08:03 PM
MomijiTMO

Wow now he is definitely shot himself. Martin you better prepare for the, "Done the tests yet?" PMs, posts and mail if your unlucky enough. :rofl:
08-15-2008, 08:04 PM
roofsniper

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Wow now he is definitely shot himself. Martin you better prepare for the, "Done the tests yet?" PMs, posts and mail if your unlucky enough. :rofl:

he probably is turning pming off right now :cool:
08-15-2008, 08:06 PM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

What, you mad cause you didnt get one?

Now was that necessary?:(
I spent 1/2 the night trying to talk some sense into people and calm this down.
Please don't toss gas on the fire.
My typing fingers are beat as it is.
08-15-2008, 08:09 PM
xTKxhom3r

im gonna stay up all night waiting for the results haha
08-15-2008, 08:10 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Now was that necessary?:(
I spent 1/2 the night trying to talk some sense into people and calm this down.
Please don't toss gas on the fire.
My typing fingers are beat as it is.

DOH! Sorry.
Just keepin ya on your toes.:D

*sirheck runs*
08-15-2008, 08:18 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXa

Yes i know. I see the results, but i dont know anything about how they achived it. .

sure you do, we lay it out in front of you right to the smallest detail.. But you chose to question it, that's all. Let's call it as it is. Distrust for manufacturer published data. It is your right, and mine is to try to convince you, and others obviously that our data is geniune. Here is what we say:

"The following tables report the data collected from testing performed with actual retail processors under 100% load using CPU Burn. Published results are the best of a minimum of 5 mounts using the manufacturer supplied retention mechanism. Flow rate and coolant inlet temperature were maintained at a constant and arbitrarily chosen 1.5 gpm and 30 °C respectively. These results are indicative of our test bench settings and of the tested processors only. Results may vary from one processor to another. Competitive data is provided for comparative purposes, and is only representative of the specific waterblock samples tested here. Where different nozzles were available, best results are provided. Where temperatures only are given, these are averaged- out core values reported by the processor Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS).

"

Now soon Andy will publish his results, and then Martin, and then Scott. Let's revisit after that if you can trust what you read on our site or not. Deal ?
08-15-2008, 08:19 PM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

What, you mad cause you didnt get one?

Mad? I can buy myself one, thank you very much. I wouldn't want to be obligated to anybody, or group or company. I will find out for myself in due course.

I appreciate your concern, but its $59.95 at Performance PCs and anybody can buy a couple at will.
08-15-2008, 08:20 PM
aspire.comptech

Isn't 30C ambient a bit high...

86F...
08-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Martin you better prepare for the, "Done the tests yet?" PMs, posts and mail if your unlucky enough. :rofl:

You'll get it when I'm comfortable my results are repeatable and accurate..:yepp:

How do the software folks say it...when it's done?...:p:

30 mounts down....many many more to go...
08-15-2008, 08:23 PM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Now soon Andy will publish his results, and then Martin, and then Scott. Let's revisit after that if you can trust what you read on our site or not. Deal ?

As though you have an obligation to justify yourself.
08-15-2008, 08:29 PM
MomijiTMO

LOL I'm not a fanatic who would bother to write a pm. You'll post it when it's done. My life hasn't changed with this new block XD.
08-15-2008, 08:29 PM
Kayin

For once, I gotta say leave Gabe alone. If the tests are done as stated (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) then the results should be taken as valid. Check and see against our reviewers, but that's just bad form to call him out like that.

I'm waiting to see myself, but as I do all custom blocks pretty much now, i'm just interested in the backup. I have no intentions of trying to fit a pair of these on my setup.
08-15-2008, 08:30 PM
IanY

Once again,

Its - A - $60 - Water - Block !

Just a water block.
08-15-2008, 08:31 PM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

As though you have an obligation to justify yourself.

Agreed, he doesn't but thats what the good ones do because they care..
And because it's his business.. Like a child that you watch grow and you are paranoid that they will falter..;)
08-15-2008, 08:34 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

sure you do, we lay it out in front of you right to the smallest detail.. But you chose to question it, that's all. Let's call it as it is. Distrust for manufacturer published data. It is your right, and mine is to try to convince you, and others obviously that our data is geniune. Here is what we say:

"The following tables report the data collected from testing performed with actual retail processors under 100% load using CPU Burn. Published results are the best of a minimum of 5 mounts using the manufacturer supplied retention mechanism. Flow rate and coolant inlet temperature were maintained at a constant and arbitrarily chosen 1.5 gpm and 30 °C respectively. These results are indicative of our test bench settings and of the tested processors only. Results may vary from one processor to another. Competitive data is provided for comparative purposes, and is only representative of the specific waterblock samples tested here. Where different nozzles were available, best results are provided. Where temperatures only are given, these are averaged- out core values reported by the processor Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS).

"

Now soon Andy will publish his results, and then Martin, and then Scott. Let's revisit after that if you can trust what you read on our site or not. Deal ?

Kinda anxious to see real results as some just talk.
Hopefully the comparisons are with diff. waterblocks and same
cpus. (which i imagine they are).

I will have results from a TC pa120.3 vs. a ST 220(with built in res)
by the end of the weekend.

All runing on the same HW.
Some say a 220 isnt enough for a Q66,NB and 88gtx.
And yes Ambients will be constant.:D
08-15-2008, 08:38 PM
IanY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Agreed, he doesn't but thats what the good ones do because they care..
And because it's his business.. Like a child that you watch grow and you are paranoid that they will falter..;)

I am maximally irritated by the presumption of guilt over here. As though proof provides redemption against some imaginary fakery that did not occur in the first place.

I am amazed that Gabe caters so much to this crowd when they treat him so badly.

Has *anyone* ever put Eddy of EK through such rigor ?!? The level of preferential treatment is stunning. And it has nothing to do with any of my preferences for Swiftech equipment, which is again another myth, because a lot of my equipment now isn't Swiftech.
08-15-2008, 08:45 PM
eXa

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Let's revisit after that if you can trust what you read on our site or not. Deal ?

I trust u already, i really dont think ur altering the test results in any way to get ur product looking better. (There is however other companies that i dont trust yet.)

But that wasnt really my point.
The more we know about the testing procedure the easier it is to trust one.
I have to bring up Martin again. Looking at the fuzion v2 test u even know wich washers he used when mounting the block... thats detailed! :D

If compaines like say.. SilenX would start doing that then they would HAVE to put up real numbers instead of the fairytale numbers they come up with now.

So ye, i do trust Switech. But if an independent reviewer came out with an review looking just like the page about the GTZ id call it a little thin.
(but i may be spoiled...)

Cheers
08-15-2008, 08:46 PM
Omastar

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

I am maximally irritated by the presumption of guilt over here. As though proof provides redemption against some imaginary fakery that did not occur in the first place.

I am amazed that Gabe caters so much to this crowd when they treat him so badly.

Has *anyone* ever put Eddy of EK through such rigor ?!? The level of preferential treatment is stunning. And it has nothing to do with any of my preferences for Swiftech equipment, which is again another myth, because a lot of my equipment now isn't Swiftech.

The only incident I remember of Eddy being hassled was over the mounting mechanism on a first rev X38-compatible waterblock. There may have been something about a nickel plated FC R600 waterblock, too, but I don't remember. Certainly, though, Eddy hasn't been taunted as much as Gabe has in this thread. I just read through the past 4 pages. :shakes:
08-15-2008, 08:50 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

I am maximally irritated by the presumption of guilt over here. As though proof provides redemption against some imaginary fakery that did not occur in the first place.

I am amazed that Gabe caters so much to this crowd when they treat him so badly.

Has *anyone* ever put Eddy of EK through such rigor ?!? The level of preferential treatment is stunning. And it has nothing to do with any of my preferences for Swiftech equipment, which is again another myth, because a lot of my equipment now isn't Swiftech.

Why are people picking on Gabe?
I have zero problems with ST,Gabe or their products.
Hell my Q66 on the ST all in one pump/waterblock shows no
difference temp wise from my D-Tek V-2.

According to on-board software, my non-contact thermometor
or my Fluke meter and by touch/feel.
Both stock and clocked as high as 4 ghz.

:shrug:
08-15-2008, 08:51 PM
Movieman

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

I am maximally irritated by the presumption of guilt over here. As though proof provides redemption against some imaginary fakery that did not occur in the first place.

I am amazed that Gabe caters so much to this crowd when they treat him so badly.

Has *anyone* ever put Eddy of EK through such rigor ?!? The level of preferential treatment is stunning. And it has nothing to do with any of my preferences for Swiftech equipment, which is again another myth, because a lot of my equipment now isn't Swiftech.

Ian:
On this we pretty much agree.
I hate to see any manufacturer treated as if every word they say was a lie and all their numbers questioned. Just plain rude and bad manners to me.
Now just for the sake of arguement if Gabe said his block would do X and I couldn't get close to that number before I posted on it I'd PM him first and ask if I was doing something wrong.
I also hate to see these manufacturers grilled by people as if the manufacturer was their own personal slave.
Again, just bad manners and not right.
Yea, I know they are in this to make money but thats an aside. This questioning can all be done respectfully on both sides with polite questions asked and answered.
It's almost like people get off on being able to talk down to these guys and that has always pissed me off.
Just like Andy tonight, these guys deserve to be treated politely and with respect and if the numbers are ready today,tomorrow or next week thats life and people have to accept that.
To see a guy like Martin banging away 18 hours straight just because some armchair general wants the numbers tonight instead of two days from now is dead wrong..
Ok, end of rant and thanks for posting that Ian.:up:
08-15-2008, 08:54 PM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanY

I am maximally irritated by the presumption of guilt over here. As though proof provides redemption against some imaginary fakery that did not occur in the first place.

I am amazed that Gabe caters so much to this crowd when they treat him so badly.

Has *anyone* ever put Eddy of EK through such rigor ?!? The level of preferential treatment is stunning. And it has nothing to do with any of my preferences for Swiftech equipment, which is again another myth, because a lot of my equipment now isn't Swiftech.

The thing is, in regards to Swiftech's testing data they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I know it is frustrating for them in this respect. They honestly have some of the best test equipment I've ever seen but people are always quick to discard manufacturer's data - no matter the product and sometimes this is justified, sometimes not. I mean, Swiftech do LOTS of testing, there is no doubt. I would say they test and retest more than any mfgr around. Whether you choose to believe their data is up to you, but like I said I have no reason to doubt it.
08-15-2008, 08:55 PM
sirheck

Well this pretty much sums up what i figured.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=198681

Basically you run quallity components you wont see but a degree or so dff.
It wont net you an extra 500mhz oc, or get you the world record.
08-15-2008, 08:56 PM
migueld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movieman

Thank you Ian..

To the others here, who I know and consider friends.
There's been some things said here that shouldn't have been.
Came across even to me who knows you as not exactly friendly.
Shall we say that this was said due to excitement over wanting to see results and bury this?
Some honest advice here:
Never,Never,Never write in anger. I've made that mistake a few times and lived to regret it.
Never let the little things in life such as a hobby get in the way of the more important things such as friendships.
It just isn't worth it and what are we talking about realistically?
If one waterblock runs at 1-2C hotter than another?
In day to day use what damned difference does it make unless your system is at the absolute limits of it's cooling and then realistically you should probably have a bigger radiator or add another or increase the fans cabability to whisk away that heat.
I'm not expert here, far from it, but losing friendships over this is just plain dumb.
Now I'm going to say this and hopefully the people involved don't get their panties in a bunch over it but there's two people here that I beleive owe Andy an apology.
He's too good a guy for the treatment he got here tonight.

Words of the wise. There is hope in this world ;) :clap:
08-15-2008, 08:58 PM
roofsniper

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

Well this pretty much sums up what i figured.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=198681

Basically you run quallity components you wont see but a degree or so dff.
It wont net you an extra 500mhz oc, or get you the world record.

i bet if you tested it with the gtx it would be way better. and if they are doing a similar design on this on their mcw-60 rev2 it will be crazy.

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