add a little AI and skynet will be born...Quote:
Originally Posted by Confused_User
add a little AI and skynet will be born...Quote:
Originally Posted by Confused_User
EVERYTHING is art
doesnt have to be a drawing, sculpture or anything intended to be art
what about sculptures? how is taking a single piece of marble any different than assembling together a variety of parts into a single sculpture?Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
ive never seen a painting that means anything more than the colors in them. but when i see something that took decades to create, then its worth much more to me. one of my teachers husbands took a car from the 50s, separated every single piece, and drew all the schematics. and put it back together across the next 20 years, and was able to start it on the first try. building an entire car in your own garage, with only your own work logs, thats art. its no different than a 10,000 piece model
i think your limiting your view to only things half to appeal to others, and thinking how they appeal to yourself dosnt count.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/picture....&pictureid=277
One more off topic post and this thread is locked.
Definitely, check it out. Mine was not a statement about the Corsair cooler at all, it seems neat. Just a point about al the "hassles" of water cooling setups. I like it all, air, water, sub-zero and these little package deals too. I'm a junkie!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004
ok my bad I wasn't having a dig either :D just seems some people in the thread forget that some people can't afford those nice setups and have to make do with stuff like this :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mrcape
man wish redbeard wasn't on medical leave I want more info :(
I think we all do mate......waiting in anticipation for reviews reviews and more reviews lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004
Anyone know who else has a test unit because hardocp?
I don't think this is necessarily true. If you have a strong enough radiator setup, the air coming out of your case is pretty much ambiant. If you felt the air coming out of your videocard, it is not. Especially with the high end.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
I think you guys are waiting for a miracle then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...spx?i=3097&p=6
Swiftech has been in the game pretty much longer than anyone. And the design is very similar.
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...spx?i=3097&p=6
You can't do that much to improve block design, so I don't think it can account for that much of the difference. Here the temps are worse than the TRUE.
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...spx?i=3097&p=9
The max overclock is worse than the TRUE.
Yet somehow corsair has managed to beat the TRUE by 15C on there first try. How is that possible?
You're wrong then.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
you do realize that system (nautilius+ H20 swiftech) came out 2+ years ago....... lot's of things have happened since then not trying to have a dig it's just the truth.. I am skeptical I see people having triple rads and all the best stuff having a hard time cooling a I7 overclocked.. but if this just beats or matches the true im on it... this is where you don't understand a lot of the people that are looking at this enthusiastically, no one is comparing it to a high end water system... we KNOW it will loose but if it offers the same temps as my true but quieter and in a much smaller package me and a lot of people will buy it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
anyway the only evidence we have shows it beats the true (from corsair...)or at least matches it when overclocked to 4.2ghz(forgot the other site it's in the thread though temps went to 82 max I think on one of the cores WITH HT, which the T.R.U.E would get around too iirc) for the space it saves it's a damn good deal :/
lol read the last page again...
why the f*** where people talking about art??? rofl....
Everyone is still in the old mind state "Buy an expensive watercooler or its not worth it".Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
This is supposed to outperform aircooling, maybe only by a few degrees nothing spectacular - but at a low price thats what this news is all about.
This is a different block, radiator, possibly even liquid so before we call this another "cheap epic-fail watercooling device" lets wait for reviews on this particular cooler.
You also can't just reinvent the laws of thermaldynamics. You can look at the device and reason what the performance range will be with some common sense. Numbers presented by vendors are often misleading and if you think it's going to beat a TRUE by 7C then you're living in Hogwarts and believe in magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
There is such a thing as disagreeing respectfully folks.
Quick, someone get one unit and test it before before we get a forum war with multiple losses over here! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam
I wonder where the corsair rep went. I'd love to know a release date.
^ Near the end of this month , Frozen CPU have already started taking order for this :)
Posted 06-10-2009:Quote:
Originally Posted by nsegative
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
Ah that sucks. Best of health to him.
Some stores are now listing the items.
http://www.superduperclub.net/dhcwch50.html
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.p...er=10021000537
And on sale too! Only 70-72$ in these two stores!
2C would be enough for me... :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by RVWinkle
:eek: REVIEWS GIEF NAOW!Quote:
Originally Posted by nsegative
Only up as placeholder right now. Too bad the guy on hardocp got a faulty unit and that no other review site seems to be doing this cooler :/
We are sending out a huge lot of review units so you should see a lot of reviews of this thing trickle out over the next few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by nsegative
Welcome back and thanks for the info. Hopefully the June release is on target despite the review units only going out now XD
This is what I have been waiting for ever since the soft launch....need some reviews/...this is by far the best option as far as I am concerned and if it can beat my current air cooling setup this is it. I just dont have the time or the dollars for a proper WC setup.
Welcome back, and thanks for the update:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
Good to hear.....:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
Some of the review units have been sent out already, it just takes time to see the results come back. CPU coolers take a lot of time to test because it's largely useless just to test the cooler we send out by itself, they have to have a couple other coolers as a benchmark, in effect, making it like a mini-roundup.Quote:
Originally Posted by nsegative
I forget to say 'Hope your better too' ;)
Then you should tell the reviewers if they want more stuff from Corsair they better damn well hurry up cause the XS community is getting impatient ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
:rofl: Liking that :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Any reviews ? Those with sample units .. give us a mini - review please !!
I suppose we have to wait for a couple of weeks?
A store with a place holder said end of june they'll be getting units.Quote:
Originally Posted by sosna
disappointing results :down:
40 minutes while real temp indicates 20 minutes ? :p Also the NB will get far better cooling with the TRUE setup. Results are not valid to me till H get's it properly setup (airflow wise)
Awaiting more results and the sample to test...
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by [cTx]EagleRock
If the results were atleast as good as the TRUE i'd have baught this.
^ Same here
Hoping to check some other reviews as well .. but seems it won't be able to match the TRUE , which is rather disappointing .. was expecting better results to be honest .
TRUE performance is enough, all I want is high-end air performance and clear my socket space for other gemicks :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by PhenomII2
Look closer into the review, many many flaws there... did they check the mounting ? seems like a rush job to me, just to get it out first.
Exactly same here ! .. on my CM 690 .. i always end up with cuts on my hand when mounting .. not TRUE's flaw or anything .. just that the case is cramped .. this would have worked out perfectly .. but well :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
I agree , Corsair has a very good rep .. and generally all their products are great , so yea will wait for a few more reviews .Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
+1 :) wait for someone respectable to do the reviewQuote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
why is the heat coming out of the back of the case hotter on the corsair than on the true, that alone shows the fan on the corsair is letting heat build up from either being too slow, or there is more heat being removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender17
and why the top of the case has cooler air for the true is beyond me. since the corsair should be removing all the heat out the back, while the true may let some cycle through the case.
sadly it looks like they ran them at vastly different fan speeds, and/or couldnt mount it right. (a 20c jump from idle to the first seconds of benching sounds way to extreme. it should take about 5-10 seconds before the copper plate even warms up if mounted right, not 1-2 seconds)
too many weird results
The corsair was sucking air IN from the back, pumping cool air through the radiator, so hot air from radiator was pushed into the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
lol, im at work so i could only watch the video, couldnt listen to it. and that sounds like a really epic failure for a test case. the heat coming out of the top should be identical for both setups as long as the airflow is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruroni
still waiting for a good review...
From the looks of it, the setup left much to be desired...:shrug:
1> The TRUE setup uses one more fan (the exhaust fan).
2> Not only that, but the "exhaust fan" in the corsair setup was put on push (intake) mode, thus killing airflow and getting hot air from the radiator to hit the mobo.
3> The side fans in the stacker just :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed up things more. You do not design airflow this way (that goes for both setups), you just end up adding turbulence to the system. Choose your strategy (positive or negative pressure), and adjust your setup accordingly.
I'm waiting personally for a frostytech review so that we can see the cooler efficiency under clean conditions (bench table, stable watts to dissipate for all solutions). Also, we need to see results for lower rpms and watts (maybe spcr will pick up a sample). This kit is still more suited to a HTPC rig, not an overclokced i7 one (not that it should not aim that category)...
Agreed. Frostytech is the bestQuote:
Originally Posted by Dante80
I wouldn't say that, even for them. The reason is that they do not use a reference fan for all comparisons, but change from time to time or use the included fans. That makes for some nasty mistakes, like TRU getting 2c colder than TRUE (due to more CFM from the fan used). You can still guess the differences by adding the dB in the equation, but...the damage is already done. At least they test each setup with different fanspeeds (where applicable)Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
What is good about frostytech though, is that (bar fan configurations) they use the same procedure for a vast variety of cooling solutions, for both companies, and for 3 different heat (watt) levels. That gives us a rough table to get some hard data without the procedure screwing up with the comparisons....
Does it make a difference if the in and out barbs are at the top?
Will it be possible to use a push pull configuration for the Corsain unit and put a fan blowing the rad from the inside of the case and use the other fan (Corsair provided) as an exhaust one?It seems crazy to me to intake hot air inside the case.
Would it affect the results,matching the True that way? (considering the True has a same blowing operation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante80
Ok I am convinced not to give up on this product just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by sosna
You're push-pull config idea is quite interesting...
Well, a push-pull exhaust setup would be much more efficient, and still use the same amount of fans that a single (push only) TRUE setup uses. This is because in the configuration used, the fan for the radiator takes the place of the stock case exhaust fan. Frankly, I wouldn't even THINK OF reversing the exhaust fan airflow like H did...its just wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by sosna
Personally, I'd mount it that way, and use it against a push-pull TRUE with the fans for both setups set for negative pressure (for example push @1600 and pull @2000, or 1200/1600). That way we would:
1> Max out (without using earspliting deltas etc) the airflow cap, so that we can witness differences based on dissipation coming from actual the heatsink/radiator.
2> Eliminate variances due to improper case airflow. This is very important, especially since these variances build over time (thus rendering a lengthy stress test comparison useless)..
3> Have a closer to real use cooling scenario.
The TRUE would still have the advantage of one more fan in the configuration, but that would happen in most (if not all) builds anyway. What we really want to look at is whether the radiator can cope as well as the heatsink in dissipating heat...so we have to eliminate all other factors...
In my opinion the results seem believable in the hardocp review.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante80
Good starter kits like the swiftech 120 compact, have a better overall base(a better pump(mcp 350), a thicker radiator with a 81 cfm fan and I wouldn't not doubt a better block since the price is higher and swiftech has more knowledge in the field. Yet the swiftech offers around TRUE performance.
This corsair looks more akin to something like a cool it(radiator thickness) and just because it has the name corsair on it, doesn't mean it will be given a magic 20C boost in performance.
Corsairs other products, you could tell they were going to be good from the beginning, the ps had a good OEM, the case simply has good features and etc. This doesn't looks like anything spectacular design wise, so I don't know why people are expecting crazy results. The fact that HARDOCP got shipped a broken unit doesn't inspire confidence in build quality either.
Well yes, that may be. Personally, I also believe that its performance will be worse than a modded and lapped TRUE, at most load situations. It just makes sense.Quote:
In my opinion the results seem believable in the hardocp review.
Good starter kits like the swiftech 120 compact, have a better overall base(a better pump(mcp 350), a thicker radiator with a 81 cfm fan and I wouldn't not doubt a better block since the price is higher and swiftech has more knowledge in the field. Yet the swiftech offers around TRUE performance.
This corsair looks more akin to something like a cool it(radiator thickness) and just because it has the name corsair on it, doesn't mean it will be given a magic 20C boost in performance.
Corsairs other products, you could tell they were going to be good from the beginning, the ps had a good OEM, the case simply has good features and etc. This doesn't looks like anything spectacular design wise, so I don't know why people are expecting crazy results. The fact that HARDOCP got shipped a broken unit doesn't inspire confidence in build quality either.
That doesn't mean though that the methodology that H used was right. The setup for the corsair unit was wrong, and I think that it could influence the results. This is what we were talking about in the posts above...
theres are the four main factors that go into a heatsink/waterloop:
the contact from cpu to heatsink base/waterblock
the heat moved from base to fins by the water/heatpipes
total surface area of the fins/radiator
lost air pressure from fin/radiator density
each one factors into the total performance by a huge margin. imbalance in any can destroy the performance. and thats not including the effects of human input/errors, like bad mounting or fan configurations. when trying to compare a water cooling system to a heatsink, the main difference is step 2, how well does water take away heat compared to heatpipes. if they were to look at the temperature of the fins/radiator, (given that the fans move air identically, which is tough to guarantee, and that the surface area is the same) the one with the hotter fins will be the one with better efficiency of removing heat from the block to the fins. the base and fins are both near their limit for modification, you can really only get more surface area, or use copper instead of aluminum.
still even with the heatpipe vs water efficiency, there are still many options. like the pin/maze configuration of the waterblock, or the direct touch heatpipes, or how the heatpipes are spread out into the fins. this is where the most tweeking goes and where the most performance can be gained when comparing things that look the same.
its very possible this can out perform a true, but at 50w or 200w i dont know, or at what fan speeds. since effiency is not as simple as .1C/W in all cases, just the tested ones. who knows if this will suck at 50w but pwn at 200w, or if at 1000-2000rpms beats the true, but fails at under 1000rpms.
You guys should see more reviews coming up this week and next week. Our internal testing numbers have never claimed this is the world's best cooler, but we've never been able to get an aircooler to beat it unless it was an open bench test or we put super high RPM fans on the aircooler.
Anyone know where the video went? I can't find it on hardocp and it seems to be missing from the site posted above. Maybe hardocp redoing the review due to unfavorable feedback?
what happened to the review? :shrug:
i hope being retested
http://hardocp.com/news.html?news=ND...VzaWFzdCwsLDE=Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
thanks
Any info about the fan configuration being used?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
I'd like to know that too...specifically.Quote:
Originally Posted by sosna
1> Is a push-pull double fan configuration feasible?
2> Corsair advises users to mount the solitary included fan in a push, or in a pull setup? The H preview used a push setup, but the mounting made sure that hot air is expelled into the case, not away from it.
For me -after what i ve seen- i consider that it can beat the True by only matching it!
Look at the price and the hassle free install,not to mention the noise being produced.A win win situation,at least for a mid o/cer like myself.
Freaking good! My TRUE cannot get around 45c @ 3.6ghz fully loaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender17
Hi all,
yes I would like to confirm that the "high end air cooler" that corsair quotes in its test with the H50 is the TRUE.
P.S.: I will receive a Corsair H50 in a few days :D
So I have found a pre-order in the UK.... http://www.c3computers.co.uk/catalog...ookieSupport=1 ........just waiting for reviews now, to see if its worth getting!!
Oh my god:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Manc
That's the price of a high-end air cooler
For anyone testing this, it really is essential to atleast get 1 test with both the TRUE (or equivalent) and the Corsair unit using the same fan, and another test with both of them using 2 fans in a push/pull.
I know lots of review sites like to just test things as stock, with the included fans because thats what people get, thats great but for anyone actually wanting to know the real potential of a cooler those tests are 100% worthless.
i want to see if this can be put outside of the case so it uses outside air, and dumps the heat outside aswell.
Turns out CCL and Novatech have it as well circa £60......and they have stock too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Manc
Where are the goddam reviews?? :shocked:
It's time for redbeard to start threatening reviewers:shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Manc
why cant people be this excited over any other air cooler weve seen in the last year? o cause this one will pwn
Normal air-cooling have reached it's limits, now we need something that is not purely a big heatsinks with a few heatpipes stuck in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
@Redbeard: How do you mount this on a AM2/AM2+/AM3 socket? Do you need a backplate or is it the easy clip-on?
My sample arrived today, will test it first on the S775 and later on once my 950 comes in on the I7... will post some piccies later on this evening...
Can you answear my question on the AM2/AM2+/AM3 mounting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
How do you think this thing will perform skinnee.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
You have enough knowledge that you can probably give us a pretty good guestimate, based on the radiator size, and this unit is build upon an older astek design.
I will take your guess as more credible than the manufacturers results, since 15C better than a TOP air cooler seems pretty much impossible since we are starting to enter good water territory, depending on load.
PS.
I love dogs in avatars.
I'm sooooo tempted to get one from Nova :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Manc
I have only S775 and 1366 mounting in my sample (READ NOT RETAIL), will ask Corsair if there's gonna be an AMD version tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Anyway here are the early piccies :
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00180.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00183.jpg
Socket 775 mounting + Backplate
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00185.jpg
Socket 1366 mounting + Backplate
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00184.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00186.jpg
Cooling unit :
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00189.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00187.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/Corsair...a9DSC00190.jpg
^ Looks good , hope we can get few numbers soon :)
I would prefer not to speculate on the performance of product I do not have in my lab. I will say that the radiator looks to be higher FPI (looks around 20FPI) and hopefully copper tubes and fins to squeeze as much performance as possible out of the compact design. With higher FPI, the performance gains truly start to show in the 1500+ RPM range.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Again, all my comments are based solely on observation of the pictures in this thread and not from experience or testing in my lab.
The dog in my avatar is the skinnee labs safety officer. I have an ESD smock that I have been trying to get him in for a picture, but he isn't cooperating. I'll get one eventually. :up:
For those of you asking - the initial shipment will not have AMD brackets inside the box, they will be available from Corsair upon request for just shipping & handling costs.
Get to testin'!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
I have been twirling my mustache and shaking my fist angrily at my email inbox waiting for responses as we speak. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
Starting to get excited. I hope this is good.
Can't wait to see your numbers to deny/support hardocps numbers XD
u do also realize both of those systems offered a delphi/laing DDC. These are the pumps we custom h2o people use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004
Which is why i said, the old nautilus was better because all u needed was a rad change to copper, and it would decimate any air sink.
I honestly think corsair should of just used this radiator on there old nautilus and pumped it out with a better cpu block.
Then that would be a very nice small package system.
Unless corsair would like to tell us the specs on that cpu pump / block?
Did you guys mount a DDC on it like swiftech did?
:D Do you know anything about the mounting for AMD systems? Is it clip-ons or those horrid backplates?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
Looking at the current mounting system a backplate would be far easier to produce and it avoids flexing of the mobo, plus you need to turn the cooler into the bracket. With push pins it would be harder to get the same pressure at the 4 mounting points. I would prefer a backplate anyday over push pins...
That isn't the case with the current AMD socket, and I really hope Corsair utilized this instead of using a backplate when it isn't necessary for a light-weight product like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
What we need is some reviews here , other than the [H] one !
From what i understand it will be hard to cool it with fresh air.You could only use the ambient of ur case and an exhaust fan for the rad.
Lets hope the rest reviews come soon.
@Redbeard:which methodology did u use when testing?Also did u use 1 or two fans -push pull-?
Corsair want's you to set it up like the Hocp article, so the fan sucks air inside the case and pushes it onto the rad... so ambient onto the rad
Early test show that the air flow in the case is crucial to get it working right, even an extra Nb fan reduced it's performance by 1-2°c. Current testing is done in an Antec P180 with an OC'ed E7400. I7 will be done in a monstrous Lian Li case paired with an OC'ed 950.
Case setup is very important, hence why I think we will see different results depending on the case and setup used.
It that's the case, then SG05 will do wonders with it's 120mm intake fan.
That's right. It's a bump for a very important product :stick:
Any reviews or sneakpeaks yet? :D
Nothing yet ? :(
Was thinking the same......but I guess to test properly at stock / OC / standard fan / extra fan / different fan etc can take some time.
Will post some numbers on S775 tonite, I7 is in progress