As above, no I haven't - don't have any spares. I agree, this definitely needs to be done to be sure - was just checking to see if anyone could perhaps point out something obviously wrong with my OC attempts, or rule out CPU.
Printable View
@SoulsCollective
Again, did you try only two sticks of ram for 4GB instead of 6GB. Do you know what bios your on? Some C0's have trouble with 6GB's at certain speeds but you said it's a D0 right? Really would like to know what bios your on.
Haven't tried running with two sticks - but if it doesn't work with one, why would it work with two? Regardless, I'll give it a shot.
Current BIOS is the latest non-beta from the DFI website.
I was mistaken - it's a C0. I always knew it was the old revision, just wasn't sure what was what.
Okay, here's my cf or 88 clear procedure. I have to do this often on this board but it absolutely works.
1) Shut down system and disconnect power source via plug in psu.
2) Press power button to fully discharge board
3) Clear cmos using either jumper or power reset method
4) Plug power then power up.
Board will cycle CF first, hold then C1 the a couple things before c26. If powers off after c26 then just unplug again but skip clear cmos. After 26 you'll get beep and all will be fine.
Do this with two sticks of ram. Because you have a C0 chances are the memory controller may be weak and struggling with 6GB of ram. Your bios is okay for your hardware but your board is definetly behaving as though there's a memory issue. Makes me wonder if you do have elpidas under those spreaders. Which would work better with 4/28 regardless of C0 or D0.
Not necessarily. Some of the UT boards will not overclock with either the 04/28 or 05/08 BIOS. Which is why the 02/17 is used as a base for internal troubleshooting. Although this does not seem BIOS related as the symptoms are different.
The board does have an issue with the 1866 speed CAS9 Reaper but they still should do 1600 easily and should not limit BCLK.
http://i317.photobucket.com/albums/m.../GTX275700.png
Isn't it just nice? :p:
Sorry didn't tried that...but it should be very hot.
I'm in water actually but still everything in default shows 40C in idle and 60ish in load temps...2.8Ghz
That's what I was doing above for "cold reboot" - and as you say, it no longer hangs on CF, but instead goes to 26, but at 26 the board reboots and goes back to hanging on CF again.
Doesn't work with three, two or one stick - still not able to get BCLK to boot above 185.Quote:
Do this with two sticks of ram. Because you have a C0 chances are the memory controller may be weak and struggling with 6GB of ram. Your bios is okay for your hardware but your board is definetly behaving as though there's a memory issue. Makes me wonder if you do have elpidas under those spreaders. Which would work better with 4/28 regardless of C0 or D0.
But, why are you so certain it's RAM related? Not that I don't appreciate the suggestions, I just don't understand why if my board can push these three sticks to a full 1850 CAS-9 using 185 BCLK and 10x memory multi, you'd then think that the RAM is preventing it from booting at 190 BCLK with memory multi of 8x for 1520 and CAS-10.
My board performed well with the 2/17 bios until I switched to elipdas. I had to use a 3/18 bios to get those to work well this was on c0. When I grabbed a D0 I flashed to 5/08 and it was horrible. I flashed back to 2/17 but couldn't get much over 210 BCLK so I flashed to 4/28 and have had no issues with elpida or samsung hcfo's. I run corsair dominator 1866's for 24/7 settings and they never gave me any trouble they they like higher voltages. I still think 4/28 is best for elipidas once you start raising the blck but thats just my expirence.
One thing to note/remember this board does seem to favor a collation or .27-.35v difference between vtt and vcore or the board won't boot. Maybe you haven't found your sweet spot yet.
Have you tried by using live tools like setFSB to try 185 bclk instead of cold boot?
BTW my board is acting weird when going up to 200 bclk...It will reboot up to 3 times in Debug LED 26 before it successfully boot up...that will 100% happen when then power is fully unplugged and plug back to power. Any of you guys experience this issue? I have this problem both on my W3520 and i7 920 D0...it should be a mobo issue isn't it? :shrug:
Haven't tried anything like that, no. I got burned badly on an older version where using SetFSB corrupted my OS and borked the board, haven't tried since. I'll give that a shot.
As for the reboot issue, my board acts like that as well. I'll sometimes need to totally power down, turn PSU off and push the on button a couple times to clear residual charge before I can boot successfully with the new OC settings. Stable as anything and cold-boots fine from then on after that, though.
Guys .. looking to get this board .. good or bad ? .. can get this or the Biostar Tpower .. will be coupled with i7 920D0
Cheers .. need some quick replies :)
Hey all,
I have been playing with this board for a couple of days now and have been stumbling across a few issues:
I have a D0 920, Elpida BBSE 2000 G.skill Tridents and am using the 05/08 bios...
1: I am getting a lot of lockups on CF and then lots of reboots and recycling back to CF from code 26.... if I make it past 26 then everything is fine... (quite often it is 3 or 4 cycles - cheers for the info Praz)...11 cycles? :eek:
2: I am getting a weird CPU fan issue where the fan spins up to max from its nominal value for 5-10 seconds and then returns to nominal value. This is happening every 5 mins or so and the rig is currently just sitting on the desktop idling. The CPU fan thresholds have been set but when it spins up to max it is not anywhere near any of these thresholds...
3: I have the same BCLK issue as SoulsCollective except my ceiling is @ 200. I can run many other configs ok but if I try 201x20 I get a non bootable system even when 200x20 ddr3 2000 + turbo x21 & x22 is fine dandy and rock stable. I have tried 1 stick and 2 sticks and if the ram timings got any more relaxed.... ;) Could this be some kind of strap issue like we had with some 775 boards? Ie just a tiny increment takes us over a threshold which changes the timing of something else unknown and causes a non boot situation?
I have only tried 201 and 210 so far and need to set aside some time to test more thoroughly, hopefully you are right ;)
I have no chance to test today and Sunday is also out but I should have enough free time on Monday to sit down for a few hours and test thoroughly from 201 up to 225 with low mem timings and x19 and x18 multipliers as well as the troublesome 20x...
Ugh.... so I got my T3EH8 today... plugged it in, got a stop code of CF which I determined to be caused by my placing the RAM in the yellow DIMMs instead of green due to a voltage difference?
Anyways.... I get that done I get a CF code again but it immediately kicks to a Code 88 and I get an acidy smell like something bad happened, I take EVERYTHING out and look over the board for any signs of damage or what could have caused that smell... it checks out fine so I reinstall everything and try clearing CMOS as I had seen in a few threads concerning CF/88 Code.
Long story short..... I gotta wait for Newegg to replace this board before I can join in on this thread :mad:
want to point out some cpu issues that my friend tested on the classy
he got two procs of 950 D0 3844A920
one couldnt do bclk 200,, was stuck at 190.
the other could
also after 4.4ghz on bclk 200 to do 4.6ghz dram 1600 he had to up his vtt the same amount as his vcore
so 4.4ghz 1600mhz bclk 200 vtt is 1.2
4.6ghz 1600mhz bclk 200 vtt is 1.4
maybe the acid smell was the paint job?
you'll get that if cpu vtt and vdimm aren't set optimally - i experienced this on 4/28 beta which is what 05/08 beta is based on - posted a note on this in post #20 and #21 at http://i4memory.com/f80/4-28-beta-bi...8-t3eh8-17224/
once you set cpu vtt and vdimm balance correctly it should go through post codes normally without problems.
remember voltages you used for 2/27 and early bioses might not be same needed for 4/28 and 05/08 beta and i suppose the official 05/08 bioses.
As per tip #30 at http://i4memory.com/102537-post3.html (list of links in first post of this thread) - memory modules in single, dual and triple channel need to be inserted in correct dimm slots, single or dual channel need to be in dimm 2+4 only for most X58 boards. Triple channel with 3 modules is 2+4+6 dimm slots only.
Quote:
30. The manual has neglected to explain the memory configuration combinations for single, dual and triple channel and it's same for all X58 boards.
- For single and dual channel use dimm slots 2+4. Seems you can also use dimm slot 6 for single channel as well.
- For 3 module triple channel, dimm slots 2+4+6
- For 6 module triple channel, populate all dimm slots
woah stuck at 190/200 bclk is low and batch is only 1 or 2 weeks before the week 45/46 gem batches too! sounds like your friend got a type 4 i7 cpu
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
Yeah pretty much the case for non-subzero DFI price wise is the one. Although seems DFI UT X58-T3EH8 is also capble of 254bclk on subzero http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=572978 (not mine as i've never used LN2/DI myself heh)
DFI has been able to duplicate this issue and are currently working on a fix.
For anyone who is having major problems with the D0 and Elpida at 200x20/2000 memory there is a new ABS file posted. It is for use with the 02/17 BIOS as it has proved to be the best version at getting around the issues users are experiencing.
http://www.dfi.com.tw/portal/CM/cmpr...rue&itemId=561
Like most of the ABS files the voltages are quite a bit higher then most of us use. VTT is set to 1.50V. My board will boot into Windows at that setting but will not pass any stability tests. 1.36V - 1.42V will probably be where most users will end up, assuming an average D0 CPU. After finding the optimal VTT voltage the other voltages can be adjusted while fine tuning VTT.
Boot UP Clock is set to 135. Can try 130 - 160 with 135 - 145 being optimal for most setups.
There will be a BIOS released based on the 05/08 that addresses these issues.
Cheers guys .. gotta wait 2 weeks for this baby to get it @ my place , but i guess i ll wait now :)
Play around to find a sweet spot, and 19x seams to require less Vcore than 20x, just like my good old i7 920 CO., But i couldn't dream av primestability at BCLK 220 with C0.
VVT: 1.24/1.28v (BIOS/Load)
NB Core: 1.13/1.12v
w3520 @4.18GHZ(220 x19), 1.2v , 1 hour primestable
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6...ft1hour.th.jpg
I have to test more before i go further with this setup. I don't know how my GTX 295 would react to BCLK 220. So far so good and if this setup "behaves", i may use this for 24/7.
What the hell is this?!
http://i317.photobucket.com/albums/m...8/P1070092.jpg
I cannot even get the boards power buttons to turn the board off after I had that acid smell + code 88.... it requires that I cut the power the PSU.
I tried several memory configurations as well.
Any thoughts?
Edit: no matter what I do... Clear cmos or any combination of memory in dimm, it simply will not boot. It sticks at code 88 and I get no further.
Is an acid smell normal on dfi when starting it up? I haven't used a dfi since the RD600 days.
He's questioning the screwy order/double appearance of the 1.06255V entry.
Has anyone else noticed that their board is very sensitive to settings while changing GPU's and such? Mine needs more vCore for every additional card, something I thought the aux power connectors were supposed to help prevent.
Switching from an 8800 GTS to a GTX 285 requires 0.02 extra vcore as does adding my raid card. PSU is an Antec Signature 850 and the rails are rock stable.
Okay, before I went to bed last night I had 210x19 chugging along with 10 LinX cycles. Pwr on today in the morning and I find Vista isn't booting anymore (goes until you see that bar 'Windows is loading', I could hear the hdd being accessed, but then it stops and stays there), figured maybe the BIOS is corrupted so flashed 05/08 over 02/17. Still not booting, so maybe Vista is shot. Started reinstalling and guess what, it seems my raptor can't be found using AHCI mode anymore, IDE is fine and I've got a working install again. Didn't try another hd. Any ideas, did I just shoot my controller or HDD?
I have been running @4.01GHZ(19x211) for 24/7 use on both i7 CO, and w3520 and never had any problems. I have had a few short (10-20) Linx run with SSD on SCSI-mode too.
I have got a few IRQ_xxx errors on USB devises while priming at 220 BCLK, but nothing is gone bad yet. High BCLK will push the SB and PCIe more, and probably Linx has shoot out your AHCI controller.
EDIT:
How much volt on SB did you have?
Bone stock on the SB. I'll definitely test this out with another harddisk, god that would suck if you're right. :(
Edit: Controller seems to be okay. Another disk installs just fine on the same port so I guess the raptor is faulty. I had it running on a cardboard box without extra cooling. Fun fun. Time for SSD maybe?
Good news, and yes you should go for SSD. I have been using a OCZ Vertex 30GB as OS disk (W7 RC 64bit) and can never think of going back to HDD again. It is cool, fast and quiet.
So I just decided to RMA the board, nothing would get it going just code 88 everytime... better luck with the new one I hope.
Yup, good luck! Acidic smell and boot issues for a new board, maybe a dud? I hope you get a new one fast. :up:
Yeah, I'm still unsure if a Vertex or that 80Gig Intel SSD would be better. I guess when going from HDD to SSD both brands are fine. :)
On my side of things: for stabilizing bclk 210 I gave IOH/ICH 1.1V Voltage and IOH Analog Voltage each .1v more juice, is this within sane limits? What is this refering to anyway? To a part of UnCore or the Northbridge?
Edit: There seems to be a direct correlation between IOH volts and Linpack times. Going from 1.15 on both to 1.17/1.5 adds nearly 5 seconds to completion time of EACH run! More volts, less GFlops. :confused:
Is there any new beta BIOS on track?
will post back later prime 12 hours stable again
difference now is
vdimm at 1.58v for 2k C7
and vcore is now same as linx 100 pass at 1.24
ok here is what u do
set dram pwm to nominal
set vtt pwm to reduce 15%
set dqvref to +1.5%
also another note
cpu vtt add disable and vdropp disable
u either set both on enable or both disable.
A Quick Test.
This XEON simply ROCKZ!~
http://i317.photobucket.com/albums/m.../X58/35201.png
just got this board and set it up a few days ago, i have already tried bios 0217, 0428 and 0508.
but i don't have a lot of time with it yet, also i'm still waiting for better ram kits, as of now i'm using crucial PC3-10600 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 Micron D9JNM/D9KPT
anyway, i like to thank eva2000, for a lot of useful informations. i'll continue checking most of your posts to learn a lot of things you've found about this board.
here are some of my quick tests which most of them using AUTO + VID special add vcore.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3...0612212849.png
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/245/20090614034127.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/313...0614031903.png
4.2GHz (Turbo mode enabled), full load 1.248v (cpuz), no load 0.976v (cpuz). room temp. 27c, True+2fans.
cpu idle temp...
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/861...0615021749.jpg
running prime95...
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4...0615021725.jpg
4.3GHz Superpi 32M Win 7
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/616...614174056a.jpg
4.4GHz (Turbo mode enabled) Superpi 32M Vista x64
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1...0615170715.jpg
Not sure if anyone has posted this already but brand new BIOS was just announced by RGone,
http://csd.dficlub.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10674
PS: Thought it interesting to note that the UT has the smallest size BIOS update at 527KB and the Jr the largest at 559KB.
A Little PI 32M Run~
http://i317.photobucket.com/albums/m...an/X58/321.png
hmm something interesting
i can run qpi multi 12.
go figure
means i am running my proc at 4.3ghz bclk 205, dram at 2050 C7
uncore at 4.1ghz
but instead of qpi at 205 x 18 i am running 205 x12.
all i did was change the qpi link speed to disable
so far performance wise no difference from gc benchmark etc
will post later..
just sold off my gc's just a few minutes ago.
sourcing some new gc's hopefully atomics'
Thanks for the tips and updates, guys. I haven't had more time to test as yet.
I have however come across a much more fundamental problem:
The board will not recognise my RAID card!
The card in question is the one in my sig (LSI megaraid 8708ELP) and it is not recognised at boot and does not show up in Windows either...
I have tried it in all slots (except the 4x slot since it is physically an 8x card and will not fit)... I have played with memory lowgap (up to 2560) with no change...
Has anyone got a RAID card to work in PCI-E slots 1, 3 or 4?
Roger that.
Thanks for testing...
No joy in middle slot for me so:
Defective board? or
Board does not recognise 4x card? or
Something overlooked in bios? or
Something else going on....
Answers on a postcard ..... ;)
Edit: Just tested with an Adaptec host raid card that i had lying around and that works just fine so it is looking like a LSI / DFI incompatibility :down:
Anyone got one of these working with a LSI Megaraid card?
New board gets here tomorrow... lets hope this ones a little more cooperative.
Can confirm that a Highpoint RocketRAID and Areca card both work in all PCI-E slots.
Which BIOS version are you using? IIRC the changelog for one of the recent BIOS files on the DFI site mentioned PCI-E RAID card incompatibility fixes. However, it seems you're not alone
Wow!
A hardware issue clone :D
Seriously though, it looks like that recent bios fix worked for Adaptec cards but LSI are no go. The thing is I have 2 important arrays on my LSI card and since I moved to X58 after my P35-T2R's NB started dying i need to to work ;)
Apparently the 8888ELP card is causing issues to (saw it regarding P45 boards) so I was wondering if it is a PCI-E 2.0 issue (my LSI works flawlessly on PCI-E 1.0)...
What bios? Currently using the 16/06 release and have tested the Adaptec fix release....
Been trying out BIOS 06-16 the last day and a half and cant get my system to work at same clock as I did with 05-08 without BSODing all over the place. Reverting to previous release...
hi guys!
my new Ci7 920 D0 Batch#3845B260 end new WC setup:
WC:
[Laig 3.2+XSPC ResTop] -> [XSPC RX360+3xYate Loon 1440RPM] -> Sapphire (Core i7 920) -> MCW30 (x58) -> SW16 (Digital PWM) -> MCW60r2 (GTX285)
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/182619.gif
ambient - 24
water IDLE - 26.3
water Load - 32
1HR Prime Blend:
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/182616.gif
Factotum: You might be having a problem with Turbo throttling at full load. That's when your +1 Turbo will rapidly cycle on and off so your CPU multiplier will bounce back and forth from 21 to 20. That is likely why RealTemp is reporting 20.8 for your multiplier.
Try running i7 Turbo and keep an eye on what it shows for the Calculated Multiplier. Run Prime 95 Small FFTs and see if it is steady at 21.000 or not.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
If your Turbo is cutting out at full load then there should be an option in your bios to turn this off.
done
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1993/48892478.gif
bios settings:
what wrong?Code:CPU Feature
Set VR Current Limit Max: Enabled
Thermal Management Control: Disabled
EIST Function: Enabled
CxE Function: Disabled
Execute Disable Bit: Disabled
Virtualization Technology: Disabled
***** Logical Processor Setting *****
Intel HT Technology: Enabled
Active Processor Cores: All
PPM Function: Enabled
Turbo Mode Function: Enabled
1 core Max Turbo Ratio: 22x
2 core Max Turbo Ratio: 21x
3 core Max Turbo Ratio: 21x
4 core Max Turbo Ratio: 21x
CPU Non-Turbo Clock Ratio: 20x
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3835/48892478.png
While Prime95 Small FFTs is running, the Calculated Multiplier should stay steady at 21.000. If i7 Turbo 6.1 shows that it is constantly less than 21.000 then that is a sign of Turbo throttling. Your bios looks like it is setup correctly. Try turning on the Log File feature of i7 Turbo so you can go back and see if the multiplier drops down for 1 second which might be reporting error or if it is constantly changing and dropping below 21.000. Post a piece of your log if you see a lot of numbers in a row below 21.000.
@unclewebb
5 min Prime95 Small FFTs
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/566/96003479.th.gif
and logfile: http://cp.people.overclockers.ru/cgi...i7TurboLog.zip
anomaly?
Factotum: How about reducing your overclock down to about 190x21 and run Prime95 Small FFTs again and see if this problem goes away?
Based on your bios settings, your CPU shouldn't be throttling but it looks like it is trying to.
Edit: Before doing that maybe try turning off Everest. This might be interfering with i7 Turbo.
confirmed!!! Turbo/RealTemp have conflicts with Everest
5min Prime Small FFTs w/o Everest:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8520/46350445.th.gif
LogFile: http://cp.people.overclockers.ru/cgi...TurboLog_1.zip
many thanks @unclewebb
Testing my new toy,
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/927/xeonuruk2.th.jpg
Low volts, but high temp. I think its time to watercooling :rolleyes:
Edit-Promising,
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6342/xeonuruk3.th.jpg
I received today my dominator gt, and reading the elpida graveyard post, i have fear to kill them too fast. What vtt is usually needed with elpida chips?
Wow that temp is rather high IMO...by the way what batch of yours (3520)?
Guys I have a problem...Tried 0508 and 0616 BIOS and problem still exists.
[NO OVERCLOCKED] When I tried using PCIE Clock 100Mhz my GTX275 won't work and device manager claimed it can't active the nVIDIA driver however it worked @ 101Mhz+...I wonder if it's an BIOS issue?
3845A935.
I have no problems with pci and my 295. Im using 0508 official bios.
Depends on mem and bclk frequencies and cpu multiplier used - http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=227580
could be anywhere between 1.31-1.65v cpu vtt needed as it can be individual cpu dependent as well as motherboard dependent
I need some help for my friend, he got his new setup today (DFI X58 + G.SKill Trident + i7 920 D0) and the mobo is only showing 2 cores instead of 4 (@BIOS on CPU-Z etc), we tried everything and still shows 2, any idea? please any help would be appreciated...
does anybody hear hissing sound from mosfet area under a load, or it's just me?
1) Boot PC hit Del Key to enter bios
2) Choose Gene Bios on right side of Bios options
3) Choose CPU Features
4) Choose Active Processors
5) Choose ALL Hit F10 N Reboot
Bios page shots courtesy of eva here
Thank guys for the feedback! I was able to fix the problem by doing:
Stock I guess we assembled the systems few hours ago, but I was able fix it after various attempts, what I did was on OS > Search > msconfig > Boot > Adavanced options > Numbers of Processors ( displayed only 4 instead of 8 ) > I put it on 1 processor > rebooted the system and that fixed the problem somehow :rofl:
^^ thanks for the tip I will have it in mind next time it happens!
Also I must say this board is incredible his first attempt he got the chip to 4.4ghz with HT on without any problems!! D0 rocks :eek: I wished I had one....
Got the new board, its up and running.... now for stability testing.
Congrats. Getting a second dud would make me RAGE.
Haven't heard a thing from my board.
I can't get BCLCK above 185 to boot - see above. So either my CPU or mobo is poor. However, full IBT/Linx/P95(SFFT) load at 1.4vCore doesn't produce a peep from the board.
Yeah I can't get to 235bclk it hard locked...anyone with a w3520 can pull off over 235 bclk CPU-Z validation? Or maybe it's an FSB hole? :confused:
By the way, I've found my Kingston Kit won't do CAS 7-8-7-20 2000Mhz Anymore the system just random freeze during PI. Maybe w3520's IMC is slightly different that the newest BIOS still didn't enhance it...
So far only managed to cold boot 230bclk and pull off to 232x19@1.3125v for a PI 32m run...
i can't hit even bclk 205 with my w3520, 205x12 cpu and 205x6 memory results in bsod under priming :(
i tried same with my old C0 and pass bclk 215, so i guess this is bclk wall in xeon
Longbow
ver 2.1
cold boot 232 bclk was successful (With QPI Fast Link Mode disabled)
now priming blend...
Okay I think I need some help with a memory problem. I'm running 6GB OCZ 1600LV Platinum sticks and the BIOS (0508) seems to mess up the subtimings. My chip isn't the best but it seems it can do 4.2 at 1.31/1.43 vcore/vtt, if I run the memory at 1200 7-7-7-24-1n I get 10 LinX runs and more without problems, now if I set the memory to 1600 it BSODs within 30secs. I took the RTL values from the 600MHz setting (63-66-68) and manually set them on 800MHz and now I've got two runs and after that BSOD. Any help?
1200 timings:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25841611@N07/3651309757
1600 timings:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25841611@N07/3652107398/
(Sorry for the flickr, but bandwidth.se is reworking their site)
I have the same problem as you p2501. I dont run the latest bios but if i run 21x200 (ht off), mem@1200 i can pass linx no problem at all. If i get mem@1600 i cant pass linx no matter what. Always end up with bsod no matter the vtt.
So now there's 3 people having problems with running their memory at 1600. We need someone who knows his/her way around mem subtimings. I forgot to add that for me this behaviour started when I set the bootup base clock to 185 to get rid of this annoying reboot-at-26. Before the setup with 1600 was good for 9 LinX runs before BSOD.
Have you guys tried running memtest 86+ DOS version v2.11?
Let's see if you get any 'unhandled expection', or 'unexpected interrupt'