How can the nda still be applicable? i thought these where already on sale.
SF3D- just a number for that spi1m thats all we want, you can encrypt it or something, pleeeeeeeese tell us (or pm me) :)
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How can the nda still be applicable? i thought these where already on sale.
SF3D- just a number for that spi1m thats all we want, you can encrypt it or something, pleeeeeeeese tell us (or pm me) :)
Hmmm.. I looked the screenshots again and they do have retail CPU :shrug: Weird.. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by redratamd
Well.. we will see the final truth when these are out in January.
yeah no cold bug, high clock speed :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by T_M
sampsa and sf3d and amd good work :)
was there anything else they suggestedQuote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
Team AU also facing cold bug issue ? :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
No, they just said ~1,95V is good for +6 GHz, pot needs to be full of LN2 :D and recommended using 1 GHz for HT since we were only aiming for high cpu clocks in our tests. We didn't adjust much from BIOS and pretty much just multiplier and HTT from AOD. It was easy, like a walk in the park.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
I must say I'm a little bit worried about these Tom's overdrive cold bug results since we didn't see any in our tests with our chips and settings... :shakes:
Hey Dinos22 mate, how are you guys doing down under? ;) Hope that poor PHII is holding under extreme cold. Can't wait for your max clocks. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
i'm just asking for tips
not saying anything here
we will talk about it all once NDA is up :)
simple they didn't use enough volts because they're use to intel's stuff. also they're never good with clock amd phenom's ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by redratamd
plus they have Ht high no bout they didn't adjust the nb clocks for it either.
oh btw
for ppl thinking about how to insulate these boards for such cold temps make sure you go out and buy some kneaded eraser
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...kneaded+eraser
this stuff is just perfect
i had two LN2 bench sessions yesterday with PhII and Core i7 920 and the setups were both BONE DRY after many hours of cold............i benched intel second and lost track of time (went to bed at 3.30am) lol with about a straight 10 hour session
there is not a single bead of sweat inside or around CPU socket (plenty of ice and rest around top of pot of course heh)
i am not kidding this stuff is magic........... :up:
dinos, is plasticine can be use too or it isn't a good solution ??
:D
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/...with-tools.jpg
Welcome to the kneaded eraser world :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
So my compatriot, do you had the CB with P2, and if you had CB , can you share information about it?
:wave:
i was a long time user of blutac and i can tell you now i would NEVER use it for full board insulationQuote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
stick to this kneaded eraser stuff specifically ... just read the thread
i feel this is relevant to discussion here
blutac is sticky, right? I dont think pasticine is sticky but I havent touched the stuff for probably 18 years so.... ;)
blutac has terrible cold trasfer/beading/condensation related issues
i would stay back from it
both bluetac and kneaded eraser are sticky but bluetac is stickier
HT, not NB.Quote:
including running NB @ 1 GHz
What about NDA ?
Tom's Hardware posted pi 1M result for 4ghz :)
And this cpu coldbugged to -70°
http://media.bestofmicro.com/V/J/172...nal/4gopti.png
At what frequency was the NB running?Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
defaultQuote:
Originally Posted by massman
We always use art eraser on LN2 .If you find , you must use faber castell brand:D we used from year 2003Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
and Phenom II is great:D 6ghz AMD processor:confused:
Yes true, my bad, fixed :)Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
Cold bug information:
I have now confirmed from AMD that when running Phenom II X4 with LN2 HyperTransport link has to be in HT 1.0 mode (running 1 GHz) to prevent CPU cold bugging. AMD suggested us using this setting in Chicago event and we had no problems hitting +6 GHz.
is there a switch in the BIOS, or do you just drop the multi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
With Gigabyte 790GX board we just adjusted 1 GHz HT link from BIOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by biohead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
:up::up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandybuck
Could this affect the coldbug issues with the 65nm Phenom as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
Can you provide performance scaling information of the HT link? How much decrease in performance does this cause? Moreover, how does this translate in coldbug terms: If HT link is set at, for instance, 1.6G, what will the coldbug be?
As far as I know, the low HT link does not make the performance decrease dramatically.
Would you mind linking that, I wasn't able to find it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pt1t
I'd like to know when the NDA ends, but I suspect that's under the NDA? :)
And of course when these go retail, but I'm pretty sure that's NDA too.
20/12, if I'm not mistaken
This should not affect 65nm parts. Only these new ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
We didn't have time to test those things in Chicago and we have to test them in our next bench sessions. HT link doesn't do huge difference, but NB speed does. So if HT is at 1GHz it shouldn't do any harm.
I can test those settings on air today and I'll let you know.
Yes you are :PQuote:
Originally Posted by massman
soo, so far if you dont bring down the htlink to ht1.0 settings. the cold bug is at -70C?
thank you very muchQuote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
keep pushing it
@ Macci: Why? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
Sound great.Quote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
I have my 9950 BE setup assembled as well, might be cool to compare performance scaling of both platforms :).
I'm not Macci, but there is a easy answer for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
In pervious processors there was some particular parts inside the die, which were holding these CPU's back. Now in this latest 45nm revision, they finally got that thing fixed. Now when CPU get colder it doesn't have any parts which would fail under subzero temperatures.
I know the exact answer for this, but can't tell it. Sorry :shrug:
Video coming soon, uploading it to YouTube!
Can you post anything else?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
also in pvt!:p:
I understand that taking away the parts that fail under subzero conditions resolves the coldbug issue in this way that there's a big difference between 65nm (with the failing parts) and 45nm (without ...), hence moving coldbug from around -10°C to -196°C and maybe even lower, but I fail to see what this has to do with the 'lower HT link on 65nm' suggestion.
As told, the HT link helps in preventing the CPU from coldbugging as follows(*): the lower the HT link, the lower the coldbug. If this could be translated in a 'coldbug' function, by which I mean that the coldbug is higher if the HT link is higher, we could conclude that the HT link is one of the factors which play a role in the coldbug prevention scheme. At the moment I have no view on how different the two cores are in terms of design, so I might be missing essential information here, but if the HT link is indeed one of the factors that helps decreasing the coldbug in the 45nm design, why wouldn't it help in the 65nm design? It might not help much, but as we all know -50°C is much better than -10°C. The coldbug won't be removed by using a low HT link frequency, but it might help decreasing it just a tad.
(*): This is a rather delicate assumption I make here. I see the HT link 'trick' as scalable, in other words 1GHz gives a lower coldbug than 1.2GHz, which gives a lower coldbug than 1.4GHz and so on. If that is not the case, and thus the HT link 'trick' only works when it's clocked at 1GHz, the following line of thoughts is not applicable anymore.
on the weekend I have seen also a Phenom II on LN2
and It haves it CB and CBB on -70° :-(
Results are not so fine I think, but it is still under NDA, so I can not say more.
AMD must go other ways than price out there processors with "high" reached LN2 freqs!
Read a few posts above yours,coldbug is there if you set higher than 1Ghz value for the HyperTransport links.If you set it to 1Ghz it should be fine(ie. no coldgub).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabauterman
Just a photo from last tests....
http://oktabit.foracamp.gr/files/Phe..._5GHz_logo.jpg
Here you can find a summary of our small session.
SF3D, can I ask about mem controller ? I mean, if you set div 1066 how low is timings, 4-5-5-12 was in phenom, how about now ?
It's against NDA ?
:D
I hope this time I'll get answer.
It's not against NDA, but I have no idea. I'm not sure what you mean, but I used SPD timings, cause my memory is so weak. They can't do 1066, that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
Someone with better ram should answer ;)
Cool video guys :D
hmm ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
may Sampsa has better mems and can share ?
Sampsa ?
it's important 'coz if div 1066 work like in P1 it's suck 'coz again for high mhz on mems we have to oc it by htt ;/
and it suck as we know.
:):):):D:D:D
Ok here is a little transcript of an original post on Syndrome-OC :Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabauterman
Bench Bed
* Gigabyte 790GP-DS4
* DDR2 CORSAIR
* AMD Phenom II 940
* nVidia GTX 280
* no coldbug if we play only with the multi (already said here)
* Coldbug @ -68°c (under Windows) with HT Frequency above 220 (can't remenber the rest of the test (that's not me that had thest but i was looking at)
* Coldboot @ -80°c
max screen was 5ghz (from Jmax), no real scores because he only bench @ 4ghz or near to 4ghz (a little above)
enjoy ;)
Will be using this graph in my Dfi review, so I might as well post it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
I've been checking the performance scaling of the HT Link, which is in case of the Phenom2 very interesting. As most of you probably already figured: very little influence on the performance, however, I was expecting a difference in the 3D results, which seems to be exactly what happens: nearly 100FPS gain by moving from 200MHz to 1800MHz (600 -> 700, using stock 4870X2).
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...an-/htlink.png
so hypertransport only effects performance in gaming?
and 100 fps....your scaling graph looks to me liek you meant it as 1.xx performance scaling of the original.
a 13% increase is 100 fps?
or am I entirely off in my confusion.
I think past 1000 MHz it's hit or miss. There needs to be more tests done to have any meaningful data to discuss.
Besides, do we know if the NB was clocked together with the HT link? Because if so, there's your magic wand.
The NB is seperate from HT link, and should be equal or perferably higher then HT link.Quote:
Originally Posted by biohead
I don't bother adjusting HT link anymore.
The NB also controls the L3 cache you want to get as high as you can
For 3D stuff I pefer upping PCI-E speed
HT link frequency probably affects performance of PCI-e, sata, ide, usb and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caveman787
Graph is indeed 1.xx of 200MHz; where XX = performance gain in %
200MHz HT link ~ 600FPS, 1800MHz HT link ~ 700FPS.
I used the nature benchmark because it's very little hit or miss, it's quite reproducable. More data is always better, however, in this case you should look past the actual numbers and see the performance scaling of the 3D benchmark. 15% increase is significant, the increase or decrease in other tests isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by biohead
NB was clocked at 2GHz in all tests. I know how to make comparisons ;)
Nice chart Pieter! The gain/loss is minimal like we see, but of course it would be cool to use higher link speed.
the key thing seems to be to run in HT1.0 mode - it doesn't mean you cant run above 1.0GHz (just use x5 multiplier) ;)
btw, 3dm2k1 Nature responds to PCIe / HT bandwidth more than most 3D benchmarks do. 3D06/05 for instance should see much smaller delta (at least this was the case last time I checked - and that could have been a while ago...)
So it has nothing to do with scaling, only about using the 1.0 mode? (higher HT link means HTT overclocking, mostly quite limited)
What about 300 mhz reference-clock?
http://www.planet3dnow.de/photoplog/file.php?n=3943&w=l
We used FOXCONN Destroyer so it seems this board is quite nice for Deneb. :)
If it affects the PCIe lanes, it might affect other hw as well. I'm picking up 4 I-ram drives tonight ... let's find out if the HT link affects harddrive performance as well :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
Wow ... very(!) impressiveQuote:
Originally Posted by MusicIsMyLife
How easy was it to reach this frequency? Is it only screenshot stable?
My teammate hoschi reached this frequency. As far as I know it wasnīt a big problem. But it was affected by the memory. There seems to be differences when using different slots. Saaya is contacted and after we do some additional testing he will look into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
SuperPI 1m and wPrime 32m ist done with that bus speed, 2k6 is done up to 295 mhz. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
That sounds awesome indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicIsMyLife
Did these tests got significant changes with higher HTT?Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicIsMyLife
Yes. I felt off my chair when hoschi told me that he reached that clockspeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
I donīt think so. Performance went up due to higher nb-clock (multiplier 9 -> 2.7 ghz nb-clock).Quote:
Originally Posted by Morais
He can definitely take down major records with those clocks even with modest cpu clocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicIsMyLife
We currently donīt talk about record breaking because we donīt know how this baby will perform under ln2. But Iīm sure that we will have a lot of fun. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker2k
This saturday we meet for an ln2-session with this setup. And we hope to get some nice scores. :D
here is the Tomshardware linkQuote:
Originally Posted by Halk
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/tom...m-II,6702.html
Good to hear destroyer can run and good run with deneb ;)
MusicIsMyLife, you have es/retail mb?
hmm, so if I will oc by htt and I won't go higher than 1000 mhz I will have cb ?Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
or
for high mhz's only multiplier is good ?
WOW! Nice, very nice. I want ....
I got this motherboard from FOXCONN Germany because I did a review about this board. It should be retail version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
Now we take the destroyer for overclocking our Deneb. :D
first we should have deneb :D
I haven't :(
you have so fight :D
eot ;)
btw
you tested deneb on new bios for it ?
Apparently 06 is quite sensitive for HT Link frequency as well. Check the graph Tye sent me a few hours ago:Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...man-/K10HT.png
(All credits go to KTE)
Note, though that the graphic card's power is less than in my setup (HD3850 versus HD4870X2) and that he ran the entire 3DMark01.
He linked me these as well:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3...0nb2khtez6.png
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4...b2300htmf4.png
I'd say the difference in GT2 is significant.
Yes, saaya sent me two new versions. But as far as I know he already tested deneb with the latest official bios. Cpu model is "unknown" but it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert
thanks for the info :D ;)
eot totally.
Hey Sampsa & SF3D
I have been reading through your notes, and so far I see these recommendations to get 6Ghz. 1.95+ vCore, set HT to 1.0 (1ghz / 5x). Various basic "Cpu" settings, CnQ.. and so forth..
I am curious if you bump any other voltages in BIOS to get it to by Crysis Stable at 6Ghz. Which is a VERY impressive accomplishment.
Any additional settings for the GB board would greatly be appreciated.
Ton
hey guys, just wondering what BIOS you were running on the Gigabyte MA790GP? if it was newer than F2A, any chance of a link? TIA
Yesterday we made 6GHz+ as well. All four cores, no coldbug issues... Just pure fan!!!:up:
More info here.
That's really great http://vozforums.com/images/smilies/Off/sweet_kiss.gif The vcore is so impressive :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
Really good to see 6GHz on retail CPU. Like I said, there shouldn't be any problems hitting those speeds. But of course, let's wait for more results.Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
What was your max benchable speed?
Well it's pifast stable, that was the only bench I tried yesterday. Today and during weekend I will run every possible test to check stability. We got pretty close to Sampa's record (6,3+) though system crushed and could not validate (4 cores as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
It was a small session just to check if 6GHz is feasible.
PS. We need better and durable motherboards in order to push those cpu's off limits...
Awesome result there!Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
Yet another Phenom 2 sees the big 6G :up:
Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
Thanks macci! You have been very helpful...:)
are you saying you experienced no cold bug of any kindQuote:
Originally Posted by dread77
have you tried running with more than 1GHz HT
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
No cb at all!!!
Regarding the high HT Link and coldbug issues, I think that Sampsa already posted an official answer directly from AMD.
Gj there :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
I wonder if the Dfi boards can feed beter vcore than the Asus board. Anyone know what max vore is on the dfi boards?(SB750 boards)
Here is Sampsa's post.
I think that most boards (including Asus boards) give max vcore 1,7V. Only Gigabyte DS4H can give more than 1,9V.
the scaling of the entire 3d2k1 is quite different from Nature test only (=lower). Even then 3d2k1 scaled more than 06 when going from 800MHz to 1800MHz (1.1% vs 0.9%).Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
And yes its a different GFX card, in particular only 256MB Frame buffer (=more chance for PCIE/HT traffic during 06/Nature vs 1GB GFX card).
In general there is definitely a difference between 200MHz HT and 1000MHz HT. 200MHz is not enough while 1000MHz is enough in most cases (excluding IGP scenario). The difference between 1000MHz HT vs 2000MHz HT is much smaller (as HT above 1GHz is usually not a bottleneck).
And like I said we may not be limited to just 1.0GHz HT Link speed (just keep the HT Link multiplier at x5 and tweak the HT ref. clock).
This is with Integrated GFX, right? Yes, this scenario definitely responds to HT Link bandwidth as the Video memory is behind HT Link. Would someone run 6GHz LN2 cooled CPU with IGP GFX though?
of course i am aware of thatQuote:
Originally Posted by dread77
have you tried to test with higher HT to see where your cold bug is if any
I see what you mean. To be honest, I failed to add a very important sidenote, which is: "Yes, 3D performance decreases when lowering the HT Link frequency, however, the performance gain you obtain because the lack of a coldbug, which makes it possible to clock your CPU frequency much higher, definitly outweights that loss."Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
I ran some performance scaling tests on the CPU frequency as well and you can see Nature scale quite impressively :).
People run laptops under LN2, so why not :D. That's not your point, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by macci
Hi...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastviking
On DFI LANparty JR 790GX-M2RS i have +0.775 Volts @BIOS, additional + 0.2Volts @AOD
I don't know exactly, but BIOS is OK for Overvolting
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?i...dfijr79fe7.jpg
BtW: Canīt wait playing with P!! 940BE...
Really Impressive Clocks!
Thanks for the Preview!! Cant wait for Retail!!
Biostar boards (TA790GX serie) give also + 0.787V to Vid.Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6931/vcorewa5.png
Thanks for the info man. It would be good if we could gather info regarding all 790FX & 790GX chipset motherboard which can supply more than 1,7V to the cpu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pt1t
Iīm new to AM2/AM2+ boards have only read info on forums...so how much do +0.787v + AOD 0.2v give? is that 1.9v? or hmmm 1.7v hmm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pt1t
Yes a Faq about AM2+ Phenom II boards is needed....i will try to find info from all good boards and make a compair.... The best would be if evry brand could send a board to me :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dread77
more than 2VQuote:
Originally Posted by Lastviking
Just to let you know guys:
GA-MA790FX-DQ6 - CPU vCore +0.5V in BIOS (Bios F6b)
Memory +0.5V as well
Only downside is CPU NB voltage which can be only lowered form BIOS. To add more vNB I need to use AOD, then it goes all the way up to 1.55V.
Using 1.35V as default would give you 1.85V MAX.
Still decent :)
dec 20th, were them results?!?!?!
January the 8th-NDA.Quote:
Originally Posted by knightwolf654
Ok... i am kinda confuse. I am seeing people in this thread saying that AOD gives an additional .2v to vCORE? Is that right?
For me, AOD stops at like 1.5 ~ 1.55.. not sure which.. but I give it much more volts via BIOS. If you look at CPUz.. it is reporting closer to what I set it at. So to hear about a .2v bump in AOD is kinda strange. Can anyone elaborate?
Ton
On my Gigabyte MA790GP-DS4H, I can set 1.5v Vcore in bios and then in AOD, it says 1.3v VID. I can max it to 1.5v VID which adds .2v to my current 1.5v for a total of 1.7v. This in not the case for my Asus M3A79-T Deluxe board.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiTON
Hmm.. very interesting. I have both boards, so i have to check that out. Thanks for the info :)Quote:
Originally Posted by charged3800z24
Ton
Unfortunately the asus reads the value in the bios, and goes all the way up to 1.55. Nothing more. :(
6221....:up: