Who cares if it is benched at 2560x1600 as long as it can provide playable frame rates with most of those games :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
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Who cares if it is benched at 2560x1600 as long as it can provide playable frame rates with most of those games :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
Both the maximum memory allotment and the speeds would be affected if the controllers were "weak" as was alluded to before. If there were issues with the controllers, you wound not see each one paired up with up to 1GB of GDDR5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconyu
well according to the numbers weve all seen, the 470 needs every little bit of additional perf it can get since it seems to be behind the 5870 in most scenarios...Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
which is what, in 2 weeks? they dont even have the box layout finished and plan to have thousands of them printed AND already shipped to distries and shops in 2 weeks? im finding it harder and harder to believe that the march 26 event will be a propper retail launch...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
capacity and speed are two different things...Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
right, there is some relation between speed and capacity, but just because there are 3 and 6gb cards you cant derive what speeds 1.5gb cards will clock at... for cpu/nb memory controllers this relation is common, but can you remember any differences in memory clocks in 1gb vs 512mb cards? and 512 vs 256, 128 vs 256 etc that was NOT based on how well the memory clocked? i cant!Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I'm pretty sure if you design a memory controller to take 6gb in a certain configuration, you'd have to be pretty hard pressed to mess it up. That sounds like a outright logic error,Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
Much easier for it to fail at a rated speed than be unable to take larger memory IC's, it's a 384bit bus anything below 1gb and they wouldn't even release it.
Maybe I should go back to my original guess and just say nvidia are being cheap, if yeilds are sucky then theres really no point losing more money per card than they already are.
They could be sand-bagging, but I'm hearing this batch on release might be the only batch unless they can fix the issues. So once this batch of Fermi sells out on the 27th you won't get one until June-July.
I never said that you could derive speed from the amount of memory placed on higher end cards. However, both memory speeds and the amount of memory associated with each controller has an effect on stress levels. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
If the card uses lower-end GDDR5, it is likely due to TDP and price issues rather than a design flaw IMO. Especially considering the GT 240 already uses higher binned modules in some cases.
tdp? i find it hard to believe that the memories power consumption is an issue :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
its possible that since its 320bit, they dont need high clocks, more bw barely scales... so they go for the cheapest low clocked stuff... makes sense, thats kinda what they did with gt200, very wide interface and then use cheaper gddr3.
It most likely is a TDP issue, and that itself can be identified as a flaw. Not of the memory controller, rather the GPU design.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
I think nVidia has already started a new radical GPU design. They know they cannot go on forever in this path. I don't know what too much is to them, but 3.2 billion transistors is 1 billion too many in my book. If ATI can get you the same performance out of 2.15 billion of the little guys then you have got a problem that cannot be ignored.
well cause when 2 gb version of 5870 will be out nvidia will be singing different song :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by kemo
Absolutely hilarious box design! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
And the card looks like a render. Not very impressive design anyway...
I don't think the price difference is huge. Look at 5770's memory. Can overclock even higher than 5870's GDDR5. And that's a budget card.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
TDP? Yeah, maybe... But not very likely imo...
Dual Geforce 400 to come later
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18038/1/
fudzilla makes news out of obvious things :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxagelos
Misleading title really: Nothing in that article suggests that a dual fermi is about to come. It's all if's and buts... not even rumor worthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxagelos
If I'm not mistaking, Fudz is trying to say the double Fermi is "postponed" to some unknown date in late Q2. Isn't he trying to say, forget it for this round?.
High speed GDDR5 consumes power like a mofo - it's the reason the 4870 had such a horrendous idle power consumption. And also the reason the 5970 only has 1000 Mhz GDDR.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Zotac planning GeForce GTX 480 AMP! version
http://www.nordichardware.com/en/com...p-version.html
that doesnt make sense, then why does the 5870 have such low idle numbers with even faster memory? i find it hard to believe that clocking gddr5 memory higher increases the power consumption notably... a 5870 consumes less under load than a gtx285 iirc, and dont tell me the gpu is running that cool that it can even make up for the gddr5 consuming more power than the gddr3 on the 285...Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissez
isn't it because the 5XXX series have better idle clock changing mechanism to reduce power consumption when idle?
its downclocked quite a bit. 4870 idle was from that and terrible power gating. its ~3 watts per IC with gddr5 and there are 12 on the 480. thats 35 watts. tesla was delayed because they are waiting for hynix 2Gb IC's. even then with 6GB you are still consuming a lot of power.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
hmmmmmQuote:
Originally Posted by Chumbucket843
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...=expert&pid=10
37W higher power consumption of 1gb gddr3 vs 1gb gddr5?
that CANT be caused by the memory chips alone... impossible...
there are only 4 memory chips on those cards, it would mean almost 10W per memory chip... MORE than gddr3... which would mean above 10W per memory chip! they would burn up in no time without a heatsink on them... normal mem chips have 1-2W tdp...
and lets say the imc runs much hotter if its driving gddr5 and the memory chips ONLY consume 5W each, then the memory chips would still burn up without a heatsink and the imc had to run over 15W hotter just by driving gddr5 instead of gddr3? and thats only a 128bit imc? that CANT be right... that gddr5 card must have a terribly unefficient design and they somehow fcked it up or used super cheap very unefficient components in the pwm...
i couldnt find any useful information on wikipedia or samsung or hynix sites regarding gddr5 power consumption... anybody?:shrug:
You've seen numbers from launch clocks?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
http://news.softpedia.com/news/NVIDI...y-137157.shtmlQuote:
NVIDIA Explains Fermi GTX 470 and GTX 480 Delay
We redesigned GF100 from the ground up to deliver the best performance on DX11. This meant adding dedicated h/w engines in our GPU to accelerate key features like tessellation. We also made changes on the compute side that specifically benefit gamers like interactive ray-tracing and faster physics performance through things like support for concurrent kernels. Unfortunately all of these changes took longer than we originally anticipated and that’s why we are delayed. Do we wish we had GF100 today? Yes. However based on all the changes we made will GF100 be the best gaming GPU ever built. Absolutely.
Just like EVGA will have Superclocked versions, ASUS will likely have a TOP edition, BFG will have an OC.....how is this news? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
I don't buy it lol...:rofl: If we knew when and why this so called " redesign " started, then perhaps it would be more believeable. Otherwise I call shananagins!
they're desperate for anything about fermi :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
4870 had borked MCs that couldn't dynamically downclock the GDDR5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissez
Thats a little harsh man? Considering the power requirements of Fermi and AMP editions have traditionally been one of the fastests OC's, I think it atleast deserves a forum post, if this clock is indeed 15% faster than stock fermi. OTH is one of the best posters here as nothing he post trolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
cant wait for the april fool's fermi joke
its comming.....
http://i49.tinypic.com/2a99p5j.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
what is this suposed to mean?????Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
Single gpu stuttering. Of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
aww... i get it... maybe we could benchmark grandpa against fermi to see who stutters less ????
I must say I was happy to read this post. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
It's been offen stated before that the 480 would have little to no head room to over clock with.
So if they can pull 15% more out of the 480 then thats gotta be a good thing, right. :up:
The 15% figure was just an example there, nothing said anything about Zotac making cards with 15% higher clocks.
hey that's a lot more Fermi's than we thought :D
Its such a pity I just grabbed a 5850:shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
I couldnt take all this kid in a ATI candy store bull#&$%:gamer:
Couldnt...just couldnt..resist. The force is weak in this one.
for launch date are prepared 60 000 cards, in next weeks will be more!
Dell should sue them for stealing the XPS design.Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
Perfect? Lolz...Quote:
Originally Posted by Softpedia
lol, what happened to charlie's "5000 cards" figure?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
You haven't did your homework, have you? :slapass:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Read the initial Anandtech's HD 5000 article. The GDDR5 controller used on HD 4000 was made without enough time to implement power saving futures. The controller on HD 5000 can downclock memory now. The ECC at low clocks can be disabled, too (no need for it) so the memory is similar too GDDR3 than and it's another power saving future.
Releasing cards on some gaming action do not look like proper release anyway. They'll finaly show some runing cards and real benches and than at some time the cards will arrive on stock. Usually there is 1-2 month between demoing the cards and releasing them:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Hey , we can see only 3 480GTX boxes :DQuote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
uhmm 60 000 won't do any good for nvidia if you think that they gathered that much in 2 or 3 monthsQuote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
that one heavy stuttering i wonder how that will translate in gaming experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
there's a very subtle difference between 5.000 and 60.000 though. I'm talking about Charlie's figures here.
;) thats photoshop, not the real world.Quote:
Originally Posted by eric66
Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
There is only one box , other boxes in the pic are different.10 cards per box ? We have 10 cards to ship ?
Source please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
That's some great logic right there. According to this, Colorful has only 1 card to ship and eVGA has no cards at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~CS~
That picture was made suggestive , as is there was plenty of cards.When it is not the case.Ready to ship ? From where ? Are they at Nvidia warehouse , no.They are at inno3d warehouse , means inno3d has 10 cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: aaalll right...Quote:
Originally Posted by ~CS~
With less than 2 weeks before launch, they better start shipping some cards already.
This 60.000 card figure is taken from where tho ? If true,would be fantastic, maybe ati would respond with lowering prices.
Maybe it was possible because nvidia scrapped 480 512SP project in favor of 480SP.That way alot more of not fully working fermis could get used.
Correction, there are 8 cards per box :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ~CS~
That's all we have :D
have you tried slotting one in any first computer you find? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
the reviews arent up yet ... damm i'm itching for information (brain itches are hard to ease)
Correction, inno3d has *atleast* 10 cards... Face palm logic for the win :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by ~CS~
Obviously this was done by someone within the company who felt theyd confirm the rumours that the GTX480 does exsist and it isn't plainly a figment of Nvidia's PR imagination :rofl: Fermi's out there man! They took me up into their ship brah! I even saw a Fermisarusrex! I'm super duper serial!
May I ask what leads you to believe there are eight cards per box? There could be eight boxes per box, I don't see any cards ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
I am enjoying this thread, love the speculation, the hopes of the Nvidia fans, the criticism from AMD fans. I am interested in how fast this card is, and what it will cost but only out of curiosity. I do hope that Nvidia fans are not disappointed though :up:
I have been using both Nvidia and ATI since the first GeForce 256 in 1999, I still have that card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed
Take whatever you wish from it , but picture was purposely leaked for brand exposure, and like i sad it was made suggestive in my opinion , that there are a lot of cards, which i don't think that they would need to do,if that indeed was the case.
We know it exists , now that does deserves a facepalm.
You just completely dismissed me .Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
I see what you are saying now. Placing a single box next to a pallet of god knows what is misleading. You are right. And yes it is all about brand exposure, " Look we have GTX480s guys! Nanana booboo! "
don't know if this was posted yet,we need Part 3 :rofl:
Quote:
Nvidia-exclusive add-in board maker, Galaxy Technology is very excited about the upcoming GeForce GTX 400 series launch and is preparing some events in China to mark the date. On March 26, the company is expected to be ready to sell both the GeForce GTX 480 and GTX 470, a render of the latter being seen just below.
http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=33185
I'm excited for march 26th! just cause 2 comes out! oh and the 15 fermi cards will ship to!:D. just kidding lol but I couldnt resist with all the NV bashing going on I had to join in. Honestly though everyone bashed when fermi was a ghost not it has a face and ship date and everyone still bashes. makes no sense.
Now the box is really sexy looking, loved the logo "NVIDIA AUTHORIZED" :p
Free game pad yay....
Not official prices, but WHO kNOWS :) :) :) :)
GTX 470 - 3x9 USD! (5850 costs 309 USD on Newegg)
GTX 480 - 5x9 USD! (5870 costs 409 USD and 5970 699 USD)
The GTX470 more than likely will compete with the 5870 on price. The 5850 will stand on its own for sometime me thinks... As far as the 480, I see 499-549USD being realistic but given the high probability of less than stellar availability... we all know which way those prices will be going ;)
GTX 470 should be $20-30 less than the price of 5870, say $389 or $379
GTX 480 should be $559-$599
About your opinion of 470 = maybe :up: :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
About second price, you are pretty wrong :yepp:
But if its lower than $559 it will be more of a challenger for 5870 2GB and 5870 custom design than the 5970....Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
At $500+ levels a GTX480 isn't worth it in my opinion. I was so hoping it would be cheaper :/
GTX470 seems to be a good deal, though.
Yeah, GTX 480 is not competitor for 5970, but 5870 :) This is not NEWS.Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
Against 5970 NV has planned dual GTX 470
wrong...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides
viceversa......
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=2896
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
wow that box looks really nice... way better than the palit stuff!Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
and nice, i guess there will be cards available at the launch! at least 120 inno3d cards from the looks of it :D
hah, ok, that explains that i guess... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
how sure are you about that number? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
it wasnt just charlie, lots of people are talking about 5K launch and 10k later, some say 5K launch and 5k later and overall is 10k... it could be that these are the allocations nvidia gave their partners... and then all partners together are 60.000...Quote:
Originally Posted by annihilat0r
oh! excuse ME professor... not everybody can be as all knowing as you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
i thought it does support it but its broken? now that you and somebody else mentioned it i remember reading about that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
1-2 months? thats not normal, thats a paper launch then... there are usually at least some cards available the same day a product launches or a few days after... thats a real launch... the 280 was available immediatly after launch, same for the 275 and 285...Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
Charlies number of 5k 480s seems right if you take into consideration that nvidia planned on releasing 480 with 512sps.
We got something not as stellar in performance but availability is gonna be better (60k of such a anticipated cards isnt exactly plenty anyhow,and i wonder if that number is for 470 AND 480..).
All this last minute changes makes me wonder tho, if they were doing it in such a hurry, maybe they arent laser cut...
470@512Sp anyone :D
I mean usually the company shows samples of the cards on some event (some Analysts day, computer show or so) and than 1-2 month later they release final version. If memory serves me well, NVIDIA did not officialy showed anything. They'll show it together with release? :shrug: So I think there will be gap between the release and cards actually on stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
About the RV770, whole chip was screwed in terms of power consumption...RV670 was pretty good at idle, RV770 sucked and RV870 follows the good RV670 tradition now...:up:
So in the end it seems it's going to be a repeat of RV770 against GT200 this generation again with Cypress vs Fermi, but with the GeForce part coming into the battle with a 6+ months delay and probably a diminished availability due to manufacturing difficulties with 40nm process. Isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
Nvidia's Fermi is naked and pictured
http://www.techeye.net/hardware/nvid...d-and-pictured
IIRC, not all the RV770s had high power draw on idle (4850 used GDDR3).Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
So it's not the chip itself, but the memory controller that couldn't put the GDDR5 in a lower consumption mode.
And ATI already has the dual gpu solution on the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farinorco
lol naked you mean without a box? those pics are rated g, even in a dark room no less.:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
True, but you couldn't underclock the GPU at all. RV670 runs on lower than 300 MHz. I remember some people run on even lower voltage and clocks :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
Thanks for the article OTH, but those pics suck :DQuote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
I thought we were going to see the die and stuff like that.
Just a bunch of pics like this one:
http://www.techeye.net/assets/upload...rmi/Fermi2.JPG
Im running my 4850 at 200mhz clock idle for gpu and 500mhz for ram ;-)Quote:
True, but you couldn't underclock the GPU at all. RV670 runs on lower than 300 MHz. I remember some people run on even lower voltage and clocks
Fermi in steel cloths :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill
Can't remember for sure which AIB it was (thinking it was MSI), but one released BIOS for HD4850 with 160MHz 2D clocks for the core, can't remember memclocks but probably between 400-600MHzQuote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
I remember, too, thought it was something liek 500 MHz core only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaotik
But you're right, I looked at Tech Power Up and it was indeed 160 MHz/500 MHz. The question is how much it impacted power consumption, I think RV670 disabled some parts of core if not needed (Power Play), too.
Chastity belt... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaidev
1920's :banana::banana::banana::banana:.Quote:
Originally Posted by FischOderAal
So you haven't? Thought so....Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Exactly. So expect every slide to say fastest "GPU" or something of the sort to indicate single-GPU. They won't be able to promote having the fastest graphics card so will have to settle for cherry picked situations where their hardware does well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
hmmm idk, i think there were no gtx280 leaks, at least not public ones, before the launch... it was a real launch with no detailled infos before launch, then they showed the cards, reviews popped up and cards were in retail within only 1-2 weeks iirc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot
and yeah, add to that how R600 had completely broken power management as well and theres a weird tick tock pattern in atis power management logic ^^ they seem to break it with every other new release hahah
well, 6+ months late, low availability, and apparently a much smaller perf gap between the red and green cards this time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farinorco
obviously not... whats your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
:rofl:
german ebay: Colorful GTX 480 "Einmaliges Angebot!"
me and several other people already reported the auction to be beguilement.
Seems this guy somehow got the GTX 480 case from Cebit and is now trying to get some money out of it :brick: There are no photos of the card itself, guess why :D
I think the auction will be offline soon, so i made a screenshot ;)
http://www.abload.de/img/ebayauy2.png
Quote:
~~~TOP-OFFER~~~UNIQUE!!!~~~~
I have been at the Cebit last week and talked and negotiated with several people. Through my good contacts i finally got this puppy. Because I actually don´t need it i am selling it now.
I wish you lots of fun while bidding:)
~~~TOP-OFFER~~~UNIQUE!!!~~~~
Weren't you saying that the 470 needs higher clocks in order to compete with HD5870? How can say that if you don't know what the 470 will be clocked at in the first place or what performance would be at those settings?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
somehow? im prety sure he stole it at the end of the show when they tore the booth apart ;)Quote:
Seems this guy somehow got the GTX 480 case from Cebit
hahah awesome :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
i said that based on the numbers that were leaked the 470 seems to need every bit of perf. why are you so hostile?Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
100 pages... fermi thread part3 soon?
even before the launch? :D
Thats roughly what I set mine to run at along with a notch lower voltage but idle power consumption barely even changed, was something like 5 watts difference. Thats about as low as it will clock on gpu and mem without getting crazy artifacts as well so it wasn't really worth it for the 4850, at least in my case.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV[666]
maybe, but not necessarily. Maybe he just asked if he can have the case and they gave it to him, simpy because it just was an empty case :DQuote:
Originally Posted by saaya
thats why i wrote "somehow"
But you clearly should not bid in this auction ;)
I thought you were referring to the 1000Mhz driver leak? I'm not hostile. I just don't use as many emoticons as you do ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Final spec of GTX 470 are here long time ago, but nobody here trust them! Look at chinese leaked spec of their ES card! That is final spec!
I cant tell exactly, but 6xx/12xx/3xxx is that you looking for :)
Can't remember what leak that was. 625/1250/3200?
3600Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
We're just 2 weeks away from launch yet haven't seen any true benchmarks or previews, when will the NDA be lifted?
12 cardboard boxes x 10 cards/box = 120 cards at least. Remember, ASUS and EVGA also have 100+ cards ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ~CS~
Show off nice shiny boxes - check!
Prove wont be paper launch - check!
Reassure that Fermi cards dont require special forklift to lift them - check!
Fermi, oh where art thou Fermi
ok, so gtx 480 has 512 cuda cores? has this been confirmed, or is it 480?