The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

People are more sympathetic with AMD simply because AMD probably needs the money more than Nvidia

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You are totally right on this.

If an AMD hobo was asking for my money and an nVidia hobo was asking for my money too, guess which hobo would get it:

Clue: not nVidia.

It's just the underdog vs. goliath thing

And anyways, I don't think the GPU manufacturer's actually WANT prices to be low. They want to make as much money as possible - I'm sure, looking back, that ATI would've gladly priced RV770 higher and made 25% more profit and the price STILL would have been competitive. They were probably shocked more than anyone else that RV770 was as good as it was

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Originally Posted by blob

rumor goes around:
199euro for GTX 470
299euro for GTX 480

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That isn't MSRP...

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Originally Posted by ElSel10

It's already been confirmed that the die size is somewhere between the 65nm GT200 and the 55nm GT200b.

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And by between you mean within a few mm2 of G200?

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Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

You see that $599-monster came back from the death just because nVidia "jumped over" the GPU that should compete with it. If you remember, ATi had announced $499 for 5970 to start with, But the lack of competition not only brought back that $600-monster from the death, but also ended up selling for over $700 too.

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So where did AMD/ATi say anything about a $499 5970?
Oh, that's right they never did.

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Originally Posted by h0bbes

People are more sympathetic with AMD simply because AMD probably needs the money more than Nvidia

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or loving the underdog for the sake of it, nvidia doing little to avoid the portrayal of a green monster has done nothing to stem the movement even though now nvidia is the underdog of this forum.

When 3DFx was around i loved them even tough they were not under dogs

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Originally Posted by thatdude90210

Could be that he meant Gemini the Zodiac sign. In which case, Gemini would be May 21 to June 20.

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Now we are making guesses based on zodiac signs, as funny as that may be its probably some of the most solid guessing done in this thread. :D

299 for 480 lol you people are really getting high i can't even buy gtx 285 for that much oh my god this thread is epic

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Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro

You are totally right on this.

If an AMD hobo was asking for my money and an nVidia hobo was asking for my money too, guess which hobo would get it:

Clue: not nVidia.

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This is why i'll be throwing my money at the green hobo this time round, too many fat & drunk red hobo's blocking the pavement.

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Originally Posted by eric66

299 for 480 lol you people are really getting high i can't even buy gtx 285 for that much oh my god this thread is epic

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please quit trolling this thread and talking about drugs. we all know the real reason you cant buy a gtx285.:p:

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Originally Posted by DeathReborn

This is why i'll be throwing my money at the green hobo this time round, too many fat & drunk red hobo's blocking the pavement.

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Thank you :) Now I can go to sleep with a smile :)

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

That isn't MSRP...


And by between you mean within a few mm2 of G200?


So where did AMD/ATi say anything about a $499 5970?
Oh, that's right they never did.

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http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9...odaticedar.png

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Originally Posted by -Sweeper_

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9...odaticedar.png

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Where does that say the 5970 was suppose to be $499?
Maybe there was another model that was suppose to be around that price?

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Where does that say the 5970 was suppose to be $499?
Maybe there was another model that was suppose to be around that price?

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Which "Hemlock" part is 500 dollars then? Note the slides, which put this part in Q4 2009. As far as I know, it's already 2010. :p:

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Originally Posted by Chumbucket843

please quit trolling this thread and talking about drugs. we all know the real reason you cant buy a gtx285.:p:

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its not my fault that ppl use drugs :ROTF: especially green ones

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Where does that say the 5970 was suppose to be $499?
Maybe there was another model that was suppose to be around that price?

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well 5970 is hemlock :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by Musho

Which "Hemlock" part is 500 dollars then? Note the slides, which put this part in Q4 2009. As far as I know, it's already 2010. :p:

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The shortage/capacity problems that occurred at TSMC might have changed somethings, as well as the delays from Nvidia.

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Originally Posted by eric66

well 5970 is hemlock :ROTF:

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Yes it is. Not sure what is so funny about that.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

The shortage/capacity problems that occurred at TSMC might have changed somethings, as well as the delays from Nvidia.


Yes it is. Not sure what is so funny about that.

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Well you see Nvidia's fermi is Enrico Fermi and ATi's hemlock are several poisonous plants in the Apiaceae family, now when Enrico Fermi eats hemlock he will be no more.

I dont know what he was talking about i just recalled a pj and wrote that :p:

Back in Nov (09 that is), I said Fermi launch would take a miracle. There were just too many risks and problems:
1. Precedent. Everyone was thrilled with big G80. It was a big jump. Everybody expected it now. Naturally successor, G200 had to be big to outperform. Fermi - making it 200 SP or even 300 SP was not an option. And ofcourse the hype! nVidia fans expecting "the 2nd coming" have been impatiently waiting for over 20 months (GTX280).

2. Complacency. AMD FUBAR'd on R600. RV670 was just a patch job. Ofcourse nVidia went along with (logical!) rumours that 480SP. Hook, line and sinker. Likewise, despite die shrink, who would've guessed 2x SP and still comfortable at just over 300mm2 range. All of a sudden, AMD is very (Apple) good at keeping secrets and misdirection.

3. Fear of Failure. The fx5800ultra used 130nm early, and had problems. nVidia vowed not to repeat mistake. Besides, why not let AMD sort out the shrink issues.
FYI nVidia and AMD switched with G80 launch: X1900 was ~350mm2, while 7800 was 330mm2 (and 90nm 7900 die shrink <200mm2 giving amazing yields and nVidia the price/profit advantage)

4. 1101. nVidia and AMD launched GDDR3 together back in '04. But, AMD wasn't satisfied and used GDDR4 first on X1950, then X2900's and finally on HD3870's. And AMD didn't stop there. GDDR5 in the HD4870 and HD4890 doubled bandwidth and was cheap.

5. Outs with MSFT. nVidia was #1 choice for XBOX. Naturally, after collaborating to bring DX8 to market. But, ATI was first with DX9, and MSFT didnt forget, and chose R500 for XBOX360. Although first with DX10 hardware, nVidia quarelled over features. Early Vista and Win7 drivers were buggy and very limited. And nVidia fell further behind, as AMD added DX10.1 and then DX11 to "first" and "AMD only" lists.

6. The X Factor. AMD - the cool kid? AMD makes graphics chips for both XBOX360 and Wii. Developer who already worked with AMD to make console game, will feel at ease making the PC version run well on AMD graphics. Sadly, PS3 doesn't have that same level of market penetration or console-PC tie-ins. Despite some PhysX games, AMD is getting more popular with developers. And manufacturers too - many jumped ship on "nVidia only" and shipped Radeons.

7. The Full Monty. AMD also makes CPUs and chipsets, which makes IGP development a snap... nVidia meanwhile between a rock (lack of license for Intel i3/i5/7) and a hard place (AMD). AMD Crossfire enjoys hasslefree support across wide range of Intel and AMD chipsets.
And with $1.25B cheque from Intel, legal wise, AMD is virtually worry free. nVidia meanwhile is being sued (again?) by RAMBUS.

8. Avatar refresh. Ofcourse none of these points mattered when nVidia was ubiquous with "fastest". G80 and G92 raked in big profits - but RV770 put a stop to that. Importantly, while AMD shipped a whole product lineup with HD4xxx, and then HD5xx, nVidia only launched the high-end and never improved the midrange or lowend. Unless you think G240 is "really" an improvement on 8800GT/9600GT. No word yet on Fermi derivatives - worrisome

9. Price Wars. G92 is great. Its 256bit bus, small, "simple" PCB and cheap. Unlike G200s. Or Fermi's 384bit bus. Arguably AMD is also ahead in digital power circuitry, and clock/idle power management. But, that's easy to fix for nVidia - except R&D budget is rumoured to be slashed. Due to bargain basement prices on GTX260s in the price war, nVidia didn't make much. 2009 featured triple $200-300 quarterly losses. Q1 is historically low. Tighten the belt and ride the storm out till summer.

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

Back in Nov (09 that is), I said Fermi launch would take a miracle. There were just too many risks and problems:
1. Precedent. Everyone was thrilled with big G80. It was a big jump. Everybody expected it now. Naturally successor, G200 had to be big to outperform. Fermi - making it 200 SP or even 300 SP was not an option. And ofcourse the hype! nVidia fans expecting "the 2nd coming" have been impatiently waiting for over 20 months (GTX280).

2. Complacency. AMD FUBAR'd on R600. RV670 was just a patch job. Ofcourse nVidia went along with (logical!) rumours that 480SP. Hook, line and sinker. Likewise, despite die shrink, who would've guessed 2x SP and still comfortable at just over 300mm2 range. All of a sudden, AMD is very (Apple) good at keeping secrets and misdirection.

3. Fear of Failure. The fx5800ultra used 130nm early, and had problems. nVidia vowed not to repeat mistake. Besides, why not let AMD sort out the shrink issues.
FYI nVidia and AMD switched with G80 launch: X1900 was ~350mm2, while 7800 was 330mm2 (and 90nm 7900 die shrink <200mm2 giving amazing yields and nVidia the price/profit advantage)

4. 1101. nVidia and AMD launched GDDR3 together back in '04. But, AMD wasn't satisfied and used GDDR4 first on X1950, then X2900's and finally on HD3870's. And AMD didn't stop there. GDDR5 in the HD4870 and HD4890 doubled bandwidth and was cheap.

5. Outs with MSFT. nVidia was #1 choice for XBOX. Naturally, after collaborating to bring DX8 to market. But, ATI was first with DX9, and MSFT didnt forget, and chose R500 for XBOX360. Although first with DX10 hardware, nVidia quarelled over features. Early Vista and Win7 drivers were buggy and very limited. And nVidia fell further behind, as AMD added DX10.1 and then DX11 to "first" and "AMD only" lists.

6. The X Factor. AMD - the cool kid? AMD makes graphics chips for both XBOX360 and Wii. Developer who already worked with AMD to make console game, will feel at ease making the PC version run well on AMD graphics. Sadly, PS3 doesn't have that same level of market penetration or console-PC tie-ins. Despite some PhysX games, AMD is getting more popular with developers. And manufacturers too - many jumped ship on "nVidia only" and shipped Radeons.

7. The Full Monty. AMD also makes CPUs and chipsets, which makes IGP development a snap... nVidia meanwhile between a rock (lack of license for Intel i3/i5/7) and a hard place (AMD). AMD Crossfire enjoys hasslefree support across wide range of Intel and AMD chipsets.
And with $1.25B cheque from Intel, legal wise, AMD is virtually worry free. nVidia meanwhile is being sued (again?) by RAMBUS.

8. Avatar refresh. Ofcourse none of these points mattered when nVidia was ubiquous with "fastest". G80 and G92 raked in big profits - but RV770 put a stop to that. Importantly, while AMD shipped a whole product lineup with HD4xxx, and then HD5xx, nVidia only launched the high-end and never improved the midrange or lowend. Unless you think G240 is "really" an improvement on 8800GT/9600GT. No word yet on Fermi derivatives - worrisome

9. Price Wars. G92 is great. Its 256bit bus, small, "simple" PCB and cheap. Unlike G200s. Or Fermi's 384bit bus. Arguably AMD is also ahead in digital power circuitry, and clock/idle power management. But, that's easy to fix for nVidia - except R&D budget is rumoured to be slashed. Due to bargain basement prices on GTX260s in the price war, nVidia didn't make much. 2009 featured triple $200-300 quarterly losses. Q1 is historically low. Tighten the belt and ride the storm out till summer.

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are you trying to prove that fermi is dead in the water or that i should use ati graphics in the next console i'm designing?

I think he's trying to say that nvidia are sliding down a big slope of fail championed by a fat speccy dude who somehow landed a job when he should be the teaboy.

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

..
So where did AMD/ATi say anything about a $499 5970?
Oh, that's right they never did.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by -Sweeper_

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9...odaticedar.png

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Where does that say the 5970 was suppose to be $499?
Maybe there was another model that was suppose to be around that price?

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Originally Posted by Musho

Which "Hemlock" part is 500 dollars then? Note the slides, which put this part in Q4 2009. As far as I know, it's already 2010. :p:

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Originally Posted by eric66

well 5970 is hemlock :ROTF:

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You don't get it. You can't admit it and it is really funny :rofl::ROTF:

You've learned that resistance is futile. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

You don't get it. You can't admit it and it is really funny :rofl::ROTF:

You've learned that resistance is futile. :rolleyes:

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You guys seem to like to keep this slide out of the "proof" which is from the same slide deck.

http://lab501.ro/wp-content/uploads/...at-580x381.jpg

Also, why wasn't the 5770 priced at $200?

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

You guys seem to like to keep this slide out of the "proof" which is from the same slide deck.

http://lab501.ro/wp-content/uploads/...at-580x381.jpg

Also, why wasn't the 5770 priced at $200?

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The first slides confirmed U$499 for Hemlock.
This one showed up at HD5970 launch, weeks later, and by the time Ati already knew there would be no Fermi or any competition in 2009.

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Originally Posted by -Sweeper_

The first slides confirmed U$499 for Hemlock.
This one showed up at HD5970 launch, weeks later, and by the time Ati already know there would be no Fermi or any competition in 2009.

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Which slides are those? I don't recall them ever specifically stating MSRP: <$500 other than people's interpretation's of a marketing graph. And we all know how reliable those are...

hmmm 2 weeks until cebit, and still nothing?
nada? im starting to think there really wont be any public fermi cards at all...
i wonder if any of nvidias partners even shows up, if there are no new cards to show then whats the point?
they have been on bread n water for a few quarters already... :/