The OFFICIAL MSI K8N Neo2-939 tips and tricks guide thread

Sideeffect -

Thank you for the picks. ok now im gunna sound a friggin retard. but what setting do i switch the tester to. meaning what setting on the Dial do i use ? again i just have never had the need to learn about voltage testers thats why i dont know.
and WHEN do i test this. i mean do i test it when its running prime so i know what the voltage is under load ? and again under idle conditions ?

my point about the X2 and NEO2 is that the neo2 is how old? i mena look, it has enough issues already running the winchesters and newcastles. (most were worked out yes)

But the motherboard is old ok. the X2 is new. its not an old technology it s anew chip from the ground up.

the power demands, the memory controllers, the .... everything about it . just look into a new mobo preferably nforce 4 to make this chip run properly.
seriously look at how certain chips run better overclock better and all around are better on let say the DFI boards with the 4-phase power.

am i wrong ?


12.5v into the 12v line messing up the 12v regulators ? oh come on now i know the posssibility is there but please. The chance of that happening when SOOOOO many psu's come out of the box running over 12v is rediculous. the 12v regulators will handle well into 13v i imagine. i mena sure it COULD happen. but ive seen psu's running 12.3v right out of the box. and reports of ones running higher.
i dont have the balls to push the 12v line higher and no need to do so. The reason i made it 12.5v was to make sure i got 12v on everything and not 11.xx i wanted a nice 12v and 12.5 makes everything run at a reported 12.1v

sideeffect thank you again for the pics i grabbed one of the guys who knows this stuff. not sure what his name is here. and he showed me how to test properly

Vcore 1.69 even though everything else says 1.6 EXCEPT corecenter. Corecenter is SET to 1.7v in the little side window but it REPORTS 1.6 in the main screen

are the chips undervolting themselves.. i mean what do i trust ?

so by testing it on the board thats what the cpu is actually getting right. damn damn damn i dont like that.


vdimm is 3.01 how ? i have no idea since its 2.85 in the bios and i dont even hve the 3.3v rail raised.

that vcore really freaks me out. i mean all my overclocking thoughts just went out the window. if i have to run 1.7v to get to 2.65 then im not happy at all.... not at all,


ok wait wait wait i just realised something. my bios is set to 1.4v + 10% which is only 1.54v

how is that possible ? i mean wow im gunna toast this chip lol and my temps sure arent reflecting 1.7v

im scared lol :stick: ... ... ... :explode2:


Edit again

Raising the Bios to what SHOULD be 1.57v vcore -> 1.425 + 10% reselts in PC health core center and cpu-z showing roughly 1.625(roughly) and M.O.M. (Meter On the Motherboard) shows 1.75v
so i seriously gotta ask which do i believe ?
do the venice chips have the ability to actually undervolt themselves ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tyrvidar

I can not for the life of me figure out how to get the hidden bios up. I've done the whole shift +f3, then alt +f2.

I am running 1.8 offical

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I'm not surprised that you can't get the hidden options to show up. It's Shift+F2 and Alt+F3. LOL
:toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

ok wait wait wait i just realised something. my bios is set to 1.4v + 10% which is only 1.54v

how is that possible ? i mean wow im gunna toast this chip lol and my temps sure arent reflecting 1.7v

im scared lol :stick: ... ... ... :explode2:


Edit again

Raising the Bios to what SHOULD be 1.57v vcore -> 1.425 + 10% reselts in PC health core center and cpu-z showing roughly 1.625(roughly) and M.O.M. (Meter On the Motherboard) shows 1.75v
so i seriously gotta ask which do i believe ?
do the venice chips have the ability to actually undervolt themselves ?

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I never trust software to report voltages properly. This board has always had "issues" when it comes to reporting voltages and temperatures. No software that I've used has ever reported either correctly. I use core center to get a ballpark reading on the temperature, and I use a multimeter to test CPU voltage. (Just make sure that you're reading from the right place and use a digital multimeter.....the old-school analog ones suck where precision is concerned.)

lol yeah i got a digital one and im using Sideeffects pictures to guide my metering location.

im mean seriously fellas.
How can a person trust a product that has a bios setting of 1.4v +10% and yet you Meter the Mobo and it goes 1.75v. basically if thats the case i might as well kiss this cpu goodbye if im actually running 1.75v.

im thinking of calling either MSI or AMD and talking to their people about this issue.
That really bothers me that th emeter shows 1.75 v and yet the Bios setting is for 1.57 and cpre center reports 1.6v
I mena if i were to be open minded i could simply average the 3 and get 1.65v. that would be fair assumption.

personally i belive im ready to RMA the board. voltage issues such as this, if infact its true that the cpu is getting 1.75 v then this motherboard voltage regulation is severly fubar'd. not to mention the fact that the vdimm shows 3.0v instead of 2.85 which i have it set to in the bios.

The pictures you see here are jsut some playing around im doing trying to see the limits of ram/cpu/mobo
the ram is running 133mhz just to lay that out right now.
the 2 key pictures to look at are the 2nd and 3rd CPU-2726 and cpu-2749
notice the voltage differences. There is more testing to b edone but the difference in voltages are needed because of the cpu miltplier. one is 8 one is 9.
9x multiplier i can not reach near as high as 8x multi. which seems odd to me since the 3000's seem to be the highest overclockers. and they have a 9x multi. correct ?

anywho. those are the voltages i go with regardless of what the meter says. I also go with them as my temps reflect that that appears to be the correct voltages also. If i were infact running 1.75v my temps would be much higher than what i am seeing. which is 30-33 idle and 43-47 load. depending on how warm my room is. those temps reflect roughly 1.65v also.
The first picture is where i am at right now btw.

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=28215

355 HTT 133mhz ram 1.65ish lol i never know what im running now lol.

suicide change with clockgen. prime failed and windows was still ok until i opened Trillian... then it rebooted lol.

1.9 final bios is out guys. 1.9 final thread

Some mod bios files are there to. Seems to be the same as the 1.98 beta bios but now usb 2.0 is working again and supposedly the 100; 133; 1 166; 200; 233;250 all work now.

183 and 150 are not available still though. Im going to test it now and see what its like.

SWEET! 1.90 TIME TO TEST FOR 3GHZ!!!! is it better to run speed spectrum on or off?

time to test 3ghz and yet you ask if you should turn spread spectrum off ?

no offense guy but you better stick with a few hundred mhz and not clear to 3 mhz if you dont know if spread spectrum on or off.


and why put 233 and 250mhz in the ram divider this mobo cant even support it. ?

iot only supports 400mhz ram and that kiddies is a hardware restriction. not something that you can just change with a bios add-on. this is a fact of all nforce 3 chipsets.

the 233 and 250 did not work in the beta even though when you posted it showed ddr500 when you got into windows the ram was only running 100mhz. not 200mhz or 225 or 250 so.. why they added it ? who knows. MSI screwed up yet again by not adding the 183 divider... uhg when are they gunna learn.

Sideeffect do you concur with what i just said about the 400mhz limitation of the hardware. ?

Well speed spectrum is sapouse to reduce crosstalk I read, this sounds good for a motherboard running at very high freqency, and maybe out of it's engineered specs.

Also notice how when you bump up the htt a big the option for speed specturm goes disabled? At least it does on my board, so I figured ok msi is doing some thinking here for us.

I never tried disabling it then upping the htt freq. but I just read somewhere here on the fourms someone running it disabled.

I don't think there is a 400mhz limitaion on the ram, the divider is part of the memory controller on the cpu, It's something amd put there before they decided if they were gona go ddr2 or ddr500 for example. Amd does not offically support those dividers, all new cores have those dividers.

the nforce 3 chipset can only run ddr400
DDR2 was out "officially" after the amd64's so AMD had no way of knowing that ddr2 would come around for sure. There was never any plan to allow the amd64's to use ddr2. possibly in the future but not now. and those divider speeds dont work that im aware of becuase again the nforce 3 chipset can only use up to ddr400
Intel 865PE was the last chipset to officially use anything higher than ddr400 that i know of.

If it works super but realise that running your ram divider at DDR500 does not automatically overclock your cpu that simply lets the ram run that high the HTT will still be at 200. If its the same way that Intel handled ram higher than ddr400.
This in turn severely limits your overclocking as you have already knocked off any where from 450-600mhz of overclock cuz your ram is already running at ddr500 but the htt is still only 200.

the 1.98beta really sucked balls as it killed my HTT cap. as my pictures show i was able to reach 355 htt. and run stable with 330. (350 would be stable but i need to lower the cpu multiplier i simply had went to far with the cpu and it crashed)
the beta didnt allow me to go close to 300... so be aware of that and test it someone.
i dont wanna be MSI's guinnea pig AGAIN.

Spread spectrum actually is disabled once you go above 210mhz.
and no it doesnt offer any type of stability when you overclock. only at stock speeds.
its just hte opposite. it makes overclocking worse.
you always leave it disabled.

lestat maybe it depends on the board..... i do not hav such issues. my HTT still max out the same... i can still run mine at 306x9 very stable. although i chose 275 now for 1:1

in my case. the 1.9b8 is jus as good as the 1.8 i was using all the way b4.

and yes i do agree the 233 250 divider is useless... especially for users like me who runs a 3200+ with multiplier 10 max. i need at least 275HTT to max out my CPU.. but tat will gives ram speed more than DDR633... but im not surprise that those divider will work in the final version of 1.9.... as said since the beginning even the 1:1 ratio is actually running off a divider from the cpu... if everything is 'divided'... it makes to difference to divide a larger or smaller amount. and now that higher speed ram is getting cheaper... mobo makers begins to see that this is a nice features to implement now.

are you saying you can run 275 with spreadspectrum ON ? then your a first. lol.
or did you simply mean that 1.98beta or 1.8 regular it still overclocks the same ?

for me its not. the 1.98b bios is really limiting my htt for some reason. and the venice voltage issue is still there.

all i can say is the neo2 isnt designed to run the Venice San diego and X2. its never gunna run them properly and as you may already know the nforce4 boards, primarily the DFI and i believe the aBIT Premium or was it the ASUS Premium ( dont matter to me i hate both mobo makers. i've had nothing but absolute crap mobo's from them) that allow these chips to really run properly. although the X2 still has issues. The sandiego issues where very quickly fixed with temp and 1T mod's.
the venice is a different animal. the voltages this chip uses are whacky and so are the memory dividers.

i didnt wanna upgrade yet but if this chip is gunna run properly i am gunna have to. more money i dont have and a neo2 and 9800 XT i have that i have to try to sell or trade for a nforce4 and pci-e vid card.

anyways.. ill keep tabs on things with this mobo to see if some hacked bios comes around to address the venice issues but i dont think it will happen.
the beloved neo2 has had its time in the spotlight. and still does for older chips. but not these newer ones unfortunately.

New rev.2 BIOS is up based on official release

@Lestat
Interesting vcore results. I used to run my CBBID, winnie 2.6GHZ@ ~1.6 repored by CPU-Z. Now I see performance degregadion. I suppose my mobo used to overvolt my CPU severly. I was at 2.5GHz around last month. Last I got BSOD at 2.48GHZ. Today I got BSOD at 2.2GHZ. Now i run default vcore and im doing 2.4GHZ fine, but can't get 2.6GHZ though :( Neo2 weakened my CPU by overvolting :slapass: I got very pissed today, look what i pumped through winnie
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=34482&stc=1
^^^ OWNED That was on thermaltake venus12

I agree the neo2 had a good run, but new technology always wins.

holy crap dude your running a 3200 winnie at 2.6ghz @ 1.9v omg dude that chip is toast ? cascade dont even run 1.9v lol.

my whole issue is with the fact the the setting i use in the bios is one thing.
Core center, and cpu-z says another. and when i use a volt meter on the mobo its another different reading.
and frankly i dont know which to trust .. ? the way the cpu is acting and the way the temps are showing, i think core center and cpu-z are correct.
also the fact that the meter is reporting my vdimm as 3.0v when the bios is set to 2.85... frankly i dont believe its 3.0v simply cuz of the lackluster overclocking with this ram. i know for a fact that with 3v this ram will do more than 3-4-4-10 260mhz. my last kit of this ram did way better.
And lastly the only way for me to actually reach 1.7v is by using core center to raise the vcore. and then i have to set Core center to 1.75v to make it READ 1.7v
setting the bios to 1.55 +10% only gives me about 1.625 in windows and thats wrong. it should be a stright 1.7v

i think personally as i said earlier that i need to rma this board. but the damn S/N is on the botton GGRRR and i cant tear it out just for that.. not right now at least.i hate msi for putting the s/n sticker on the bottom.


also any results yet from the 1.9 testing ?
everything there ? anything missing ? are things as stable and overclockable as 1.8 ?

NFM please do us a favor


make your memory hacks or special setting use something OTHER THAN FULL SCREEN LOGO! PLEASE!!!!!

that full screen logo is pretty dumb by itself let alone when you force us to leave it on so your tweak is on. use something else please please PLEASE!!

Actually memory testing cannot be disabled, I believe it's harcoded into the bios. But when you enable full screen logo it seems that memory testing does not take place. Maybe it does but logo hides it :) lol

No matter what you do memory tweaks always be apllied by default

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

NFM please do us a favor


make your memory hacks or special setting use something OTHER THAN FULL SCREEN LOGO! PLEASE!!!!!

that full screen logo is pretty dumb by itself let alone when you force us to leave it on so your tweak is on. use something else please please PLEASE!!

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do it urself then.....

i hav nothing against wat NFM had done... he has help a lot.. and even if he even force a full screen logo fixed at ON.... no one should even complain a bit..... really....

lestat: if u hav so much to complain about Neo2 ... maybe is time u change out ur mobo ? for problems like we r facing and for 'hero' like NFM... it is all part of the fun in playing with hardwares.... if u r looking for perfection.... maybe u should get a DELL system then......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by harpyboy

do it urself then.....

i hav nothing against wat NFM had done... he has help a lot.. and even if he even force a full screen logo fixed at ON.... no one should even complain a bit..... really....

lestat: if u hav so much to complain about Neo2 ... maybe is time u change out ur mobo ? for problems like we r facing and for 'hero' like NFM... it is all part of the fun in playing with hardwares.... if u r looking for perfection.... maybe u should get a DELL system then......

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:lol: :woot:

WOW what a jacked up bios.!!

i cant even overclock any where near where i was .. dang

what is msi doing to these bios's.

blah im going back to 1.8mod.


and yes the full screen logo was rather silly to force that one. do you know anyone who uses it ? i dont. (but that is also the point of using that for the hack cuz no one uses it,, i realise that.) the point of removing the full screen image is cuz it blocks the post screen where there are messages and it shows your ram speed and timings.
now you have to quickly tap TAB. if you catch it in time.

All i said was use another part of the bios for your trick. the full screen logo is something people want OFF not on...

and i said please lol.

So does the new official 1.9 bios still overvolt without ppl knowing?

according to the meter on the motherboard it does.
I'm back on 1.8mod. the 1.9 i couldnt even boot at 250mhz. with 1.8 im back at 300+ HTT. ggrrr msi...

i dont know guys is it really the bios thats overvolting ? or is it a combination of this new cpu and the motherboard itself. ?

Not sure if some of you understood but the full screen logo has nothing to do with the modified memory timings in the bios. They are set by default. The full screen logo just stops the memory testing which as you might notice takes longer on the 1.9 bios than it did on 1.8 bios even when u set quick boot.

I still havnt checked my vcore with a multimeter as my setup would involve me removing the power supply because its vapochill and then i have to worry about the clamshell moving etc and insultation. But i will check reading soon.

The vddr reading is 0.5 above bios setting so if i set 2.75 in bios i get 2.8 volts reading. The reading is very constant. The 1.9 bios seems about the same as 1.8 bios for me as far as memory overclockability goes. I dont need a htt above 275 so high htt doesnt bother me.

San diego is still stable on the neo 2 at 3ghz no problems. Moving to a nforce 4 wouldnt help me get any higher imo.

The 233 and 250 dividers well I dont see a reason why they wont work eventually when msi implements them properly. They dont effect the cpu only the ram and it could be usefull for people wanting to keep the cpu in spec. They are useless for me however and i would have much prefered 183 divider.

well what the devil ?

where what when and how... gawl dang it i do apologise to you fellas and NFM most of all. i absolutely misread the readme. i read memory timings (the extra settings) and not memory test like it says. so yes i was wrong and gladly and humbley admit it.

my vdimm is ehhh roughly .10 to .15 higher than the bios. 2.85 in the bios produces a rock solid 3.0v on the mobo. but i know the ram isnt getting 3v cuz of the lackluster overclocking i am getting with the ram.
again i dont feel this to be a bios issue and sideeffect you can probably concur that its a hardware issue. Unless osmeone can tell me that there is a bios that isnt reporting overvolting when you meter the motherboard.

i'm still trying to figure out why 1.55v +10% doesnt give me 1.7v its only 1.65 or so.(im basically going thru every vcore setting to see what they show and what the meter shows)

i actually have to set core center to 1.75v to make it report 1.7v.

i'm back on the 1.8 bios fellas. im not sure what happened with the 1.9 but wow that bios is a total bomb.. i really lost all my overclocking.. i didnt go into to much testing i just set it to what 250mhz should have booted like the 1.8 did and it wouldnt even post. i then reset the bios since you ahve to do that now since MSI took away the "Press Insert Key for Safe Mode" which again i cant believe they did that. total carnage when you make 1 little mistake in the bios and you have to reset the jumper.
i loosened the ram a little and it still wouldnt boot. so no thanks ill stay with 1.8

one comment/question though.

i have seen a few fellas running the 1.41mod bios and having really good luck overclocking and such.
Is there something in the 1.4bios thats different ? i dont have that particular bios and cant find it yet. i think im gunna pm one of the guys and see if he can email it to me. unless one of you gent's have a link for it ?
im willing to try anything but the actual hardware overvolting is really disturbing me. i dont wanna fry this chip or the mobo...

you can get the 1.41 and also a lot of other bios files from here link

I did try the 1.41 it does boot but i found HTT wasnt as good as with the 1.8 bios. But worth a go It has optimisations for certain ram i think so maybe it works better for some configurations.

Im pretty sure the 1.41 bios shows the correct -12 volt voltage line as well cant remember but 1 of them does.

NFM the 1.9 mod has the temperature issue for me so it wouldnt boot bios setup. It wouldnt boot windows either. Not sure why but its kinda killed that bios chip :P

I have a spare though so its no big deal and ill hotflash the other chip back so no harm. I also have my trusty nforce2 lanparty mobo that can hotflash neo 2 bios files to.

EDIT IMPORTANT - That link also has the 1.52 and x bios dont try that with a venice or san diego it really doesnt work and the bios wont even boot. I think it might be using a earlier romsip than the 1.36 bios and so it doesnt have support for new cpus. Like all the bios files information on changes is sparce. Just dont try it.

the one thing i saw with the 1.9 when it came to booting is that APIC is disabled and if you had APIC enabled when you loaded windows your windows install will not boot now if APIC is disabled so be sure to check that. i also had to no booting to any media at all for the first few times i tried to boot after flashing but then it went away. :\ no matter what i try to boot do cdrom floppy or hard drive it acts like it was gunna but then nothing happened. (i doubt this is APIC when it comes to a cdrom or floppy or USB related but its possible)
i would find it hard to see how it killed your chip. it also sounds like you have had to do this before ? lol sure your chip isnt bad ?

I also saw some people over at the german MSI forum where murdock gives out his bios say that they can not do 250mhz overclock now either. i replied and said the same thing.

what in the world is MSI doing with these bios's there is no way they are actually TESTING them. I've worked in a test lab and believe me you have to be blind def and umb not to see these issues and even then you would have to be bound and gagged not to notice booting issues.
who do they have coding and testing these ? bring the 1.8 guys back atleast that bios was good.

the whole 1.9 series has been one scary bios lol that not booting issue really had me going for a while that the rom chip or board was toast.


EDIT

hhmm seems like the chaps over at pcper have found out that spread spectrum is still enabled according to cpu-z even if you disable it.
http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.p...47#post3551447

im sure NFM can fix that though. maybe lol.

Yes i was being a bit over dramatic when i said dead. It was just ill.

I cant enter 1.9 bios setup files that show the temps in the bios because well ask msi. Something to do with cold temperature maybe.

So if apic was disabled by default that would be why windows wouldnt load with defaults too i guess. I dont have a floppy so if i cant get to windows and use winflash then the bios is stuck the way it is.

Well i hotflashed it back to 1.8 1t mod bios now and going to use that again for the time being.


Edit - there isnt a reading for spread spectrum in cpu-z. I dont think it does stay on when u disable it the guy in that thread was saying it came back on in bios by itself. Doesnt for me.

It's interesting to use 233 / 250 divider for testing our ram chips ... without cpu's factor limitations imo ...

Sonic

what do 233 and 250 make your ram freq ?

250 was 100mhz i believe. i may have been 133 but i was overclocked when i tried it so i dont know.

spread spectrum never came on for me either. it stayed off. what is odd is that once you go over 210mhz (i think its 210 right ? ) its off perminantly you can not change it. so whatever this guy was doing... hhmm ?

I have tried nfm's rev2 mod of 1.9 official bios, and i must say it despises my setup. ANY changes, even so much as disabling a sata port or changing just the boot order results in me NOT being able to load windows, ONLY with freshly cmoc reset settings can i boot into windows. I was really looking forward to that 216 divider, but I guess I will settle on 1.8 forever now. by the way, if my system is 100% stable at 250x11, with ram 1:1, but fails superpi/prime after several minutes at 275x10, do you think it just hates the 10x multi or the cpu's memory controller is just garbage? btw 216 divider with 250x11 wouldnt even POST. this is g.skill pc4400 btw, ran 280mhz rock solid on my crappy clocking cbbid. I have since thrown the cbbid back i nto see if the ram somehow degraded, but it still runs sweet at 280mhz. so this cpu is just garbage. any way to incorporate the 216 divider into the 1.8 bios??

Sounds like your CPU just has a crappy memory controller, arnemetis :( Can you Prime with your memory at 275 on lower multis?

Btw, my CPU won't go over 240HTT on a multi of 9, but does 10x260 - so it could just be like that with your CPU also :)

I was the person reporting that CPU-Z said Spread Spectrum was showing still enabled in CPU-Z. That was wrong. For whatever reason, I saw Sideband Addressing and my mind registered Spread Spectrum.

My foray into the NF3 Ultra chipset is just about done. I also believe there are issues with that chipset and the San Diego core, that can not be made right by simple bios changes. It pains me because I have a large chunk of change tied up in my AGP video card, which I love dearly. I'm not entirely convinced that the NF4 chipset is the "manna from heaven" either, but we are being forced to migrate to PCI-E whether we want to/need to, or not. The tail is definitely wagging the dog on this one. I will continue to play with 1.90 and it's modded derivatives. NFM, can you disable temperature shutdown in yours, like you did in 1.9b8? I run my thermal diode pins to an external reader. I tried using MODBIN6 to do this, but it doesn't save my changes. Perhaps an NTFS issue. I'm not sure.

Thanks,

Hoot

still, point remains that any changes to the bios resulted in me not being able to load windows, even when not overclocking, just disabling a lan port or something simple such as that. THIS was my primary concern, I had already established my cpu was garbage, was just hoping maybe 1.8 didnt really support san diego, and maybe my cpu didnt like high ht but would run the mem faster with 216 divider, and 1.9 would like it better. as far as I can tell, 1.9 is completely unusable. I will just have to wait on 2.0 :( Once again, thank you nfm for your hard work.

Hoot.

i can agree as ive stated and had people shoot me down and some agree that the nforce 3 is out of its league when running a sna diego and even the venice is plagued with memory and voltage issues.
the nforce 4 is a good chip but makers are going into the overclocking realm so hard that they are releasing really crappy bios's that arent fully tested i think.
the DFI boards really do kick but but wow when you have bios after bios after bios that are just garbage or fixes one thing and breaks 2 others... well then... what can one do.
I agree im not ready to go to pci-e as there is no viable performance increase by doing so. But alas. here i sit today pricing parts and selling my neo2 and my ram and video so i can get something in the pci-e flavor.
but remember if we werent speed freaks and tech in our heart of hearts we wouldnt have the need for speed and we probably would still be happy with our machines from 5 years ago...
its that pc lovers double edged sword poking you.

true that Lestat.

Well I've flashed the damn bios anyway, the light version (mem timings unhidden) and it works fine for me :)

Had to set it up all over again because of clearing cmos of course, but no pain here... now I can finally run 166 divider and manually alter the trc and trfc timings so that my UTT ram doesn't crap out at this 166 divider :thumbsup:

But on the other side SLI looks kind of nice too LOL I don't know what I want :D

The newer cards probably will not come in AGP flavor so one day we'll have to go PCI-X... ah well, until then :toast:

Not shooting you down just disagreeing :)

I dont see a difference like for example Hoot has his san diego running at 2700 mhz at 1.52 volts. If You read the san diego thread thats about normal on any motherboard. Mine is at 3ghz at 1.6 volts which is also good.

The nforce 4 wont help anymore with cpu speed it might help with ram speeds and htt though but not by a great deal. The limits seem to be the memory controllers on the cpus rather than the motherboard.

If i was dead set on moving away from nforce 3 i wouldnt get nforce 4 because its not any better. The ATI xpress might be worth a look though.

Dont forget that pci express is being upgraded soon anyway and so revision 1 boards could become obsolete.

the whole argument FOR dfi is its 4-phase power units which helps beyond anything else.
voltage stability bleeds into almost everything else... heat.. overclocking, performance. and just overall stability. the board has proven that already.
plus the nforce 4 does perform better.

in general its not the nforce 4 its the architecture.. the new motherboard layouts the chip design the capacitors and so on that are on the new motherboards.

and pci-e isnt going to be upgraded as soon as you might think.
pci-e was a viable upgrade since AGP had been around since the mid 90's. But to force an upgrad of a component thats 1 year old that would make current video cards and other devices obsolete. I just cant see the hardware designers forcing such an imense change on pc society after thousands and thousands JUST upgraded or are currently upgrading.
I think that if they do so that there could be some legal ramifications that could send some serious shockwaves thru the pc industry.
At the time PCI-E was released they had already designed and were testing the next level. All of this didnt happen just within this last year. they had the architexture designed and testing long before that.
One could argue that the hardware makers knew this and only released this as a reason to boost income, and thus creating havoc in the industry as everyone spent thier money on PCI-E 1 and now they go and shove PCI-E 2 at us ?
there could be legal issues with that if a person got a good lawyer. and one that would be awarded with amount sof moneyt hat no one has seen before.

I for one dont see any reason to not make it backwards compatable and if they have 1/2 a brain they will do it.

i want to upgrade but dont NEED to. i need a upgraded video card as this 9800 XT isnt cutting it for my gaming and certain other needs.
so that is first if i can get a good deal on a 6800 series or x800 series then ill stay with AGP and not look back. but if an overall deal on a good PCI-E mobo and video arrises then i will gladly take that also.

Yes they will will for sure make it backwards compatible for the video cards but only new motherboards will support pci express revision 2. Sort of like the move from AGP 4x to 8x.

Pci express revision 1 doesnt perform any better than AGP 8x the only use i see for it is SLI.

I dont see how the 4 phase power solution will help when your voltage rails are already spot on. Yes it is a step forward but its main implications are directed more towards a SLI setup as well.

I just got a great deal on a 6800 GT in the uk. Upgraded from a 9800 at xt speeds. Its so much better for gaming would really recommend it.

yeah i sold my 6800 GT and my Gskill LA a few months ago so i could get this 2005FPW. was it worth it. i havent decided lol.

4 phase power helps alot. it really does. again the dfi boards compared to a similar board without 4phase shows how good it is. its not the end all omg 4phase. its just that much extra electrical support that the chip and mobo and ram needs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

i'm still trying to figure out why 1.55v +10% doesnt give me 1.7v its only 1.65 or so.(im basically going thru every vcore setting to see what they show and what the meter shows)

---

If your cpu's default voltage is 1.4v then you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE ANYTHING ABOVE 1.45V FOR VID. That's why 1.55v * 10% will give you the same voltage as 1.45v * 10%. I have had no problems with any of the 1.9 beta bios's either. I'm beginning to think that in your case there is either a user "issue" or you have a flakey board. :shrug: I've added, and removed, the 4th phase to my board and have had no results worth mentioning....neither positive or negative. Are you sure that you're measuring CPU voltage from the right location? (The correct mosfet, and the correct leg on the mosfet.) Are you grounding the negative lead on the case?

I have had positive results from 4 rigs that I've built around the K8N Neo2 Platinum.....none of my builds have had any problems that you seem to be experiencing aside from innacurate readings from core center, mbm, speedfan, or any other "monitoring software." Unless you have a bad board, getting an nForce4 board will not help your overclock. If you're looking for the added features that the nForce4 chipset brought to the table, then that's a different story. I feel badly that you seem to be having so many problems with your motherboard, and I hope that they can be resolved somehow in the near future....good luck to you. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corruption

If your cpu's default voltage is 1.4v then you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE ANYTHING ABOVE 1.45V FOR VID. That's why 1.55v * 10% will give you the same voltage as 1.45v * 10%. I have had no problems with any of the 1.9 beta bios's either. I'm beginning to think that in your case there is either a user "issue" or you have a flakey board. :shrug: I've added, and removed, the 4th phase to my board and have had no results worth mentioning....neither positive or negative. Are you sure that you're measuring CPU voltage from the right location? (The correct mosfet, and the correct leg on the mosfet.) Are you grounding the negative lead on the case?

I have had positive results from 4 rigs that I've built around the K8N Neo2 Platinum.....none of my builds have had any problems that you seem to be experiencing aside from innacurate readings from core center, mbm, speedfan, or any other "monitoring software." Unless you have a bad board, getting an nForce4 board will not help your overclock. If you're looking for the added features that the nForce4 chipset brought to the table, then that's a different story. I feel badly that you seem to be having so many problems with your motherboard, and I hope that they can be resolved somehow in the near future....good luck to you. ;)

---

wouldnt you suppose that considering that sideeffect gave me pictures on the previous page that im doing the right spot
the wrong leg ? please dude, i leg shows 1.xx and the other shows well... a whole helluva lot more than that. same with vdimm 2.85 in the bios and 3.x on the mobo... the 2nd leg reports over 7volts.
ground ? no i have a wire connected to a 5 foot pole i have shoved in the ground.... yeah guy the thing is grounded properly. if its not grounded your not gunna get a reading with a dig. meter.

issues with a flakey board sure.. but you might wanna go searching around on the results for the Ultra-D AGP version. the EXACT same thing.... ..... massive overvolting on the motherboard when metering it.

im not saying there is anything wrong with this board either stability wise. But this board is severely lacking and has been since the day it was made. There was only 1 build date of this board that came out that has superior strengths to the other boards and its a highly sought after version of the neo2, ill have to check with :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:breaker,, he knows the one cuz he has one.

you speak as if im the only one here having this issue and yet im the only one who has actually reported metering the motherboard. maybe sideeffect did i dont recall.
look around this is a highly known issue

and 1.45 + 10 is 1.6 1.50 + 8.3% = 1.625 the system reports it as 1.58~1.6


what seens to be really funny is the fact that core center can adjust the voltages allt he way from defualt to 1.7 so how does it do that when the bios cant ? or is flakey at best.
well other than direct interaction with the chip at a software level.

well anyways there is no user level errors you can be darned sure of that.


I would dare you to prove that you removed the 4 phase off that motherboard and still had a full functional board. you can't simply remove a phase of electricity on an item like a motherboard and still have a functional board. just like attempting to run a 4phase or 3phase motor on non 4 or 3 phase electricity... just aint happening guys not without changing 1 wire inside the motor. which i suppose could be possible with this board but again im not aware of any mot removing the 4 phase as you would be dumb to do so, the loss of that 4th phase ,,ehh yuck,, why even think about it. your not gunna see it unless your into some heavy overclocking. thats where the 4th phase shows its colors.
unless your referring to something your changing in the bios or a jumper, which the board is 4 phase always ther eis no on off switch for it.
Unless there is and i just havent paid enough attention to those dfi boards to hear about it.
im sure you didnt do this as an experiement so if you care to provide me with some proof or reading materials on how to do this with this board and still make the board functional id find it interesting reading. (yes i mean that seriously i would indeed find it interesting to read about)

again i encourage you to research the neo2's the flakey voltages are a well known issue with the venice's and even the boards themselves... you not knowing this indicates to me you been building systems but not knowing about the hardware your using. or maybe you just deal more with dfi than the neo2.(as i did at one time)

ok confusion and mass histeria has set in.


in my curiosity of overclocking and hardware stressing i pulled one of my sticks of ram. which i rarely do simply becuase it serves no purpose in overclocking to run 1 stick of ram. What does that prove of your hardware but its pure weakness in not being able to handle 2 sticks of ram, mainly 512meg sticks.

So in my testing of ram this morning i pulled 1 out ... and everything is fine i squeezed a few more mhz out of it as i thought i would but then decided id see how the voltages looked with only 1 stick of ram in.... and this is what i found.
Voltages are tested with M.O.M. (meter on motherboard)

Vcore - 1.68 .03v over what i have set in the bios
vdimm - 2.89 .04v over what i have set in the bios.
Those 2 readings are what i should be reading at any given point in time no matter what.

with 2 sticks of 512 in dual channel.

vcore - 1.70+ when bios is set to 1.6. And when the bios is set to 1.7v it reads over 2.0v!!!
vdimm 3.0v when bios is set to 2.85v

so now the question arises WTF!! now aside from the immediate answer of nothing more than a fooked up motherboard what explanation is there ?
i realise the memory controller is ondie so there for dual channel configuration may cause the system to possibly boost the voltage on the vcore slightly but not the whacko voltages im reading same for vdimm.

anyone have any generalized theories or thoughts ?

(i can not elaborate on 2 256 sticks as i dont have any)

hhmm.. tat's pretty weird as many would aledi toasted their CPU with 2.0V...

i saw the pic on page 77 on vcore measurement... how about vdimm ? lestat can u tell me where to test the vdimm ? sorry but i was MIA for some time due to exams.... i will measure the voltages after someone told me where to for the vdimm..... oh ya.. where did u ground ur meter ?

oh nvm..i found....

lol i was gunna say the link for vdimm is right under it.

well it may say v but no way on this iearth the pcu is actually getting 2v. The temps show that they dont go above 33 idle if it was 2v well... the chip would have fried and the heat would def be more. lol. same with my ram.. i would be overclocking the ram higher if it was actually getting 3v.

the regulators are doing some wierd stuff with 2 sticks of ram

i tried running 2 sticks in single channel but oh my guess what.. this crazy board wont let me!! it just beeps at me. GGRRR man o man talk about anger management.
i'll have to set up an rma or something this board is really whacky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

lol i was gunna say the link for vdimm is right under it.

well it may say v but no way on this iearth the pcu is actually getting 2v. The temps show that they dont go above 33 idle if it was 2v well... the chip would have fried and the heat would def be more. lol. same with my ram.. i would be overclocking the ram higher if it was actually getting 3v.

the regulators are doing some wierd stuff with 2 sticks of ram

i tried running 2 sticks in single channel but oh my guess what.. this crazy board wont let me!! it just beeps at me. GGRRR man o man talk about anger management.
i'll have to set up an rma or something this board is really whacky.

---

That's true about the voltage. Perhaps the regulators are messed up. For me as long as the motherboard is 100% stable, I dont care what the voltages are. AND the NEO2 is a very stable motherboard if configured correctly!

omg i jsut saw my typing wow i gotta get help for this i cant stand it anymore. i have to type almost like a snail to make sure my mind and my fingers work together.
my aplogies for the spelling guys. its something i cant controll.


yeah i agree its stable just the voltages freak me out.
but like i mentioned the votlages running above 2v every single piece of software i try reports pretty much the same voltages which are under 1.7 or 1.65 or whatever i set it to.
my heat is the final indicator if voltages to me.. the heat isnt what it would be at those insane voltages and again,,, the chip would have been dead by now at 2v on water cooling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by harpyboy

hhmm.. tat's pretty weird as many would aledi toasted their CPU with 2.0V...

i saw the pic on page 77 on vcore measurement... how about vdimm ? lestat can u tell me where to test the vdimm ? sorry but i was MIA for some time due to exams.... i will measure the voltages after someone told me where to for the vdimm..... oh ya.. where did u ground ur meter ?

---

With all due respect, that is not the best place to read the Vcore, though it is convenient. It would be more accurate to read it on the load side of the toroidal inductors (donuts with wire wrapped around them), AKA Chokes. If you look in the picture on Pg 77, below those inductors is the array of electrolytic capacitors that filter the Vcore. You will see one of them is missing. MSI probably saved $.50 omitting that capacitor. :rolleyes: Anyway, where it belongs are two plated through barrels from the Vcore and ground planes. Those two pads are the best compromise between accessability and accuracy to take the reading. There is a half-shaded-in circle silk-screened on the motherboard where the cap belongs. The pad in the shaded-in half it positive and the other pad is negative. As for Vdimm measurement, again you want to be as close to the load as possible. Again, MSI omitted a capacitor in that circuit. Up near the top of the board, to the right of the fan header, you will see a missing electrolytic capacitor that filters the Vdimm. Take your Vdimm reading from the two pads where the cap belongs. Again, the shaded-in pad is positive. FWIW, I tried adding a low ESR electrolytic capacitor to each of the two missing ones and it didn't increase stability, so don't bother pondering that one. MSI already figured that out.

Hoot

What about another choke, 2 more fets and the missing caps on the vcore side, is that like a missing phase or something?

the 4th phase, yes.

4 phases is better then 3 right?:D But I guess It not really that much of differnce, well at least for normal users, is this why msi doesn't use it? How much better is it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoot

With all due respect, that is not the best place to read the Vcore, though it is convenient. It would be more accurate to read it on the load side of the toroidal inductors (donuts with wire wrapped around them), AKA Chokes. If you look in the picture on Pg 77, below those inductors is the array of electrolytic capacitors that filter the Vcore. You will see one of them is missing. MSI probably saved $.50 omitting that capacitor. :rolleyes: Anyway, where it belongs are two plated through barrels from the Vcore and ground planes. Those two pads are the best compromise between accessability and accuracy to take the reading. There is a half-shaded-in circle silk-screened on the motherboard where the cap belongs. The pad in the shaded-in half it positive and the other pad is negative. As for Vdimm measurement, again you want to be as close to the load as possible. Again, MSI omitted a capacitor in that circuit. Up near the top of the board, to the right of the fan header, you will see a missing electrolytic capacitor that filters the Vdimm. Take your Vdimm reading from the two pads where the cap belongs. Again, the shaded-in pad is positive. FWIW, I tried adding a low ESR electrolytic capacitor to each of the two missing ones and it didn't increase stability, so don't bother pondering that one. MSI already figured that out.

Hoot

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Hoot any chance you can get a picture and point arrows to these spots to make it clearer?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sideeffect

Hoot any chance you can get a picture and point arrows to these spots to make it clearer?

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I second that question :D (thanks for pointing it out sideeffect :thumbsup: )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sideeffect

Hoot any chance you can get a picture and point arrows to these spots to make it clearer?

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Unfortunately, I'm at work today, but I'll be happy to when I get home. Perhaps I can rework other pictures available online and post them.

Hoot

Many people requested no temp BIOSes. So here they are:

Link

thanks NFM :)

Thanks NFM. I can't speak for everybody since I'm new to these forums, but I'm sure the rest of us really appreciate your time and effort as well as putting up with all our requests. Thanks again! :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

hey guys, is the 1.9 bios good for winchesters as well? I have 2x256mb gskill and a 3500+ winchester, and im still using the 1.36b bios. should I give 1.9 a try?

Hamster yes the 1.9 should work fine for the winchster also but never forget. If it aint broke dont fix it.
the 1.8 should actually be more appropriate for your winchester as reading across many forums people are showing similar issues as what are stated here. not many issue but its enough to cause most not to use it. But then again people with san diego's and X2's i think are seeing things better for them while the rest of us ae seeing issues.

if your 1.36 is working good and overclocks are good then there isnt a reason to update.
1 thing i'll note is that for me atleast when i moved to 1.8 my HTT is able to reach 370mhz but with 1.9 i cant even hit 250. and with others 300mhz is an issue. so if you havent tried 1.8mod try it see what you think.

hoot if possible please throw us some picks i for one am interested in anything that gives me more accuracy.

*note of interest*
i put in my 2nd stick of ram and my vdimm instantly shot up to 1.96v instead of the 1.55v it was. (it actually showed 1.57v on the board)
vdimm went back up to 3v also. where it was showing 2.89 (bios is 2.85)

so something about 2 dimms really messes up this mobo's voltage regulation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

wouldnt you suppose that considering that sideeffect gave me pictures on the previous page that im doing the right spot
the wrong leg ? please dude, i leg shows 1.xx and the other shows well... a whole helluva lot more than that. same with vdimm 2.85 in the bios and 3.x on the mobo... the 2nd leg reports over 7volts.
ground ? no i have a wire connected to a 5 foot pole i have shoved in the ground.... yeah guy the thing is grounded properly. if its not grounded your not gunna get a reading with a dig. meter.

issues with a flakey board sure.. but you might wanna go searching around on the results for the Ultra-D AGP version. the EXACT same thing.... ..... massive overvolting on the motherboard when metering it.

im not saying there is anything wrong with this board either stability wise. But this board is severely lacking and has been since the day it was made. There was only 1 build date of this board that came out that has superior strengths to the other boards and its a highly sought after version of the neo2, ill have to check with :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:breaker,, he knows the one cuz he has one.

you speak as if im the only one here having this issue and yet im the only one who has actually reported metering the motherboard. maybe sideeffect did i dont recall.
look around this is a highly known issue

and 1.45 + 10 is 1.6 1.50 + 8.3% = 1.625 the system reports it as 1.58~1.6


what seens to be really funny is the fact that core center can adjust the voltages allt he way from defualt to 1.7 so how does it do that when the bios cant ? or is flakey at best.
well other than direct interaction with the chip at a software level.

well anyways there is no user level errors you can be darned sure of that.


I would dare you to prove that you removed the 4 phase off that motherboard and still had a full functional board. you can't simply remove a phase of electricity on an item like a motherboard and still have a functional board. just like attempting to run a 4phase or 3phase motor on non 4 or 3 phase electricity... just aint happening guys not without changing 1 wire inside the motor. which i suppose could be possible with this board but again im not aware of any mot removing the 4 phase as you would be dumb to do so, the loss of that 4th phase ,,ehh yuck,, why even think about it. your not gunna see it unless your into some heavy overclocking. thats where the 4th phase shows its colors.
unless your referring to something your changing in the bios or a jumper, which the board is 4 phase always ther eis no on off switch for it.
Unless there is and i just havent paid enough attention to those dfi boards to hear about it.
im sure you didnt do this as an experiement so if you care to provide me with some proof or reading materials on how to do this with this board and still make the board functional id find it interesting reading. (yes i mean that seriously i would indeed find it interesting to read about)

again i encourage you to research the neo2's the flakey voltages are a well known issue with the venice's and even the boards themselves... you not knowing this indicates to me you been building systems but not knowing about the hardware your using. or maybe you just deal more with dfi than the neo2.(as i did at one time)

---

I'm sorry that you're still uptight about your board....you should take a laxative and relax a little. I asked how you were using the meter because your voltage readings are wonky. You can use almost anything as a "ground"...."ground" is relative. If you have ever done a 7v mod for a DC fan in your case, you'd know that you replace the ground wire with the 5v line. The 5v line becomes the "ground" for the fan's circuit. The "ground" is nothing but a reference point....in the same manner, you can "boost" the 12v to the fan by using the -3.3v line as a ground. This would result in about 15v to the fan. Not all powersupplies "like" this though and often end up malfunctioning.

As for providing documentation on adding and removing components to complete the 4th phase, I can only say that I'm not going to be doing that again any time soon. I've experimented and have found that the differences are too small to be useful for me. If you're using phase change and are pushing over 1.75v through your chip, then the 4th phase might be useful to stabilize voltages a bit. I am only watercooling and I refuse to push over 1.65v through my chip for 24/7 use. The 4th phase will help to remove "ripple" from the voltage supplied to the chip/board. If you're not experiencing voltage fluctuations, I wouldn't recommend attempting to add it. (Some others online have reported the same as I have regarding the 4th phase on the K8N Neo2 Platinum.)If you are intersted in a few mods that require a bit of soldering, you may be interested in this page: http://www.hardwaredome.nl/reviews/view/18/ I find that the cap mod helps the most for stabilizing fluctuating voltages.

As for not knowing about hardware, I can only laugh and point in your general direction. :ROTF: :slap: It's not like a technician with an engineering degree knows anything about computers or discrete technology....right? As I've said before, I hope that you resolve your MB issue. :toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sideeffect

Hoot any chance you can get a picture and point arrows to these spots to make it clearer?

---

Sorry to take so long. My dog ate some of the neighbors grass that had been treated with 2-4-D and I spent the evening at the animal hospital, the cost of which would have bought me my choice of NF4 boards. :rolleyes:

Here is the Vcore metering point:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/ne2p/vcore.jpg

And here is the Vdimm metering point:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/ne2p/vdimm.jpg

Hoot

i like those mods but Cap mods really on serve their purpose on extreme overclocking.
but wouldnt hurt on low or midrange overclocking. Any extra punch that the system takes for power will be backed up by more cap's. Think of it as when you have anice car stereo and when the bass hits your headlights dimm. throw a 1 farad cap on your positive line to your amp and no more problems!. (of course a bigger alternator helps also). same thing here more power stored for use when the system needs it.
The vdimm mod where you run 1 wire from the 3.3v line to the vdimm line is a quick and painless mod for people who have ram with a sweet spot around 3.3-3.5v. Me personally i get nervous thinking about running my 3.3v line on my 600w Powerstream upwards of anything above 3.5v.
Personally if i were to do it i would run it to the 5v line and put a adjustable resistor on it so i could adjust it as high as needed. but then again i wouldnt want to turn the dial the wrong way when i first power up the system... ouch! you'd be sending up some serious smoke signals.
the htt mod is interesting for sure as MSI didnt give us HTT voltage adjustments. ggrrr. but alas he was right higher htt multipliers dont give any more performance. infact from 2.5x to 4x ive never seen anything increase or decrease.


Again if you do come across some materials on the 4 phase removal on the dfi board or discussions about it let me know, it sounds like an interesting debate. Just something that sparks an interest in my mind and i wanna do some learning also.
but again its been shown that the DFI boards "power" in overclocking and such comes from the 4 phase power. but then agian the boards themselves are some impressive work with or without that 4th phase.

My neo 2 and me have no need to take any type laxative. My gripes are not with stability, my system hasnt run better. its with the "how's" and "why's" and "what do i do now" when it comes to this voltage going thru the roof when i put in 2 dimms.

There has to be a pin on the back of the CPU socket (rear of the mobo) that gives a 100% reading of voltages. seriously there has to be the voltage is fed TO the cpu via one of those pins so taking a reading from it ... thats the best spot.

Hoot do you know or seen anyone do this ? or know where i might find out ?
One thing that would be cool would be a schematic or several pictures showing exact locations on the mobo of all known testing spots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoot

Sorry to take so long. My dog ate some of the neighbors grass that had been treated with 2-4-D and I spent the evening at the animal hospital, the cost of which would have bought me my choice of NF4 boards. :rolleyes:

Here is the Vcore metering point:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/ne2p/vcore.jpg

And here is the Vdimm metering point:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/ne2p/vdimm.jpg

Hoot

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Many thanks Hoot hope the puppy feels better.!
Although that vcore check point is only 1/2 inch from the other one readings arent going to be much different but yes its closer to the CPU so a more accurate reading should take place.
the vdimm one i would assume would give a way better reading since it is right up by the dimms.



Edit

just checked and voltages are exactly the same so they are no different.

Vcore 1.94
vdimm 3.56v that is impossible....( the other leg is over 7v ). the bios is set to 2.85 and frankly i can tell you from experience that this ram wont even BOOT at anything over 3.2. at least my last set of this same ram wouldnt. Again if this particular ram was volted that high then i would be getting better overclocks this this on the ram.

Dude, I think your dmm might be going wacky, I have one there the has gone wacky and reports off voltages like that, I checked those spots and the other spots in the pervious picks, and I get less then 50mv from what bios reads vcore as.

Your chip would be dead by now, test ur dmm on something like ur house outlet, should be 110-120.

now see the whole thing is that with 1 dimm in the dimm slots the voltages are exactly spot on. and i dont mean just vdimm i mean vcore and vdimm. but since its an ondie memcontroller adding the 2nd dimm ... well... i could see how it might adjust voltages to comensate.
the voltages only are reported fooked up like this when i use 2 sticks of ram.

I wish i still had my newcastle to test things with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

Many thanks Hoot hope the puppy feels better.!
Although that vcore check point is only 1/2 inch from the other one readings arent going to be much different but yes its closer to the CPU so a more accurate reading should take place.
the vdimm one i would assume would give a way better reading since it is right up by the dimms.



Edit

just checked and voltages are exactly the same so they are no different...snip

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Was that while running Prime95 Torture Large FFT's or BurnK7 ???

I see a little voltage drop across the toroids. Remember, there is literally 7 or 8 inches of wire wound around each of them and even though it's fairly large gauge, it does offer a little voltage drop when a lot of current is passing through it.

Were you getting those odd voltages with both your positive and negative probes on the capacitor pads, or did you cheat and put the negative on say, chassis ground and only use the positive pad? If so, you can't do that as you add ground loop currents to the measurement, which can add up to as much as .1V error. :)

Hoot

Quote:

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throw a 1 farad cap on your positive line to your amp and no more problems!. (of course a bigger alternator helps also). same thing here more power stored for use when the system needs it.

---

Sorry, but car audio caps are bandaids mostly.

Quote:

---

There has to be a pin on the back of the CPU socket (rear of the mobo) that gives a 100% reading of voltages. seriously there has to be the voltage is fed TO the cpu via one of those pins so taking a reading from it ... thats the best spot.

---

You might get something off one of the SMD capacitors under the metal backplate, but other than that there are only the legs of the capacitors near the vcore mosfets and the torroids.

Best to use 2+ wires if you can for the 3.3=vdimm mod too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

Again if you do come across some materials on the 4 phase removal on the dfi board or discussions about it let me know, it sounds like an interesting debate. Just something that sparks an interest in my mind and i wanna do some learning also.
but again its been shown that the DFI boards "power" in overclocking and such comes from the 4 phase power. but then agian the boards themselves are some impressive work with or without that 4th phase.

---

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I added the 4th phase to the K8N Neo2 Platinum and then removed it. I wouldn't dream of removing the 4ht phase from a DFI board. I simply meant that after adding the 4th phase to the Neo2, that I saw next to no difference. So I've stuck with the cap mod until I want to upgrade to a PCI-E board. I found that the cap mod on the site that I linked to worked quite well. If your board is out of warrantee and you want to attempt a mod, the cap mod is the one that you should try first. It helps with fluctuating voltages especially when you're pumping 1.7v+ through your CPU. ;) (I run what's in my sig 24/7 though.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

My gripes are not with stability, my system hasnt run better. its with the "how's" and "why's" and "what do i do now" when it comes to this voltage going thru the roof when i put in 2 dimms.

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I've never seen the voltage jump like that when 2 DIMMS were installed, but anything is possible. If I were you, I would write to MSI and try to get the board replaced. :shrug: Do you know where your chipset was made, and week/year? (Taiwan or Korea?) I know that some of the early Taiwan chips seemed to have issues with high HTT's. I've heard that the Korea chipsets run at a slightly higher voltage than most of the early Taiwan's which could help obtaining high HTT's, but I haven't verified this for myself yet. I have a Korea 0450 and have had no problems hitting over 300HTT with any of the bios's that I've tried. *knocks on wood* (1.36mod through 1.9, including betas) I actually found that 1.37mod bios gave me higher voltage fluctuations and temps, but that's with software reporting.....and you konw how "accurate" software monitoring utilities can be. :rotf: :zombie: I'm actually impressed that the board has lasted this long in today's market. It is a really good board, but 64bit technology has matured, and there are better options available if you're buying into the 64bit market for the first time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

My neo 2 and me have no need to take any type laxative.

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Sorry if I appeared to be grumpy......I haven't had much sleep lately. I've been trying to ressurect my 9800pro that recently "drowned" when my cpu block threw up on it. :stick: I think I'm going to have a new R350 keychain pretty soon though, as things aren't looking good. :brick: On the bright side, I'm happy with the x800xl. :p: :woot:

Anyone have issues with the 1.90 bios? I finally got mine flashed and the bios menu was totally different, and after a short amount of time the CPU Fan would spin down, i reverted back to 1.80

I was attempting the 1.90 Release, not a modded version

Quote:

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Originally Posted by d1c1ple

I was attempting the 1.90 Release, not a modded version

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In the "Plain Vanilla" 1.90, Cool-n-Quiet is enabled. Set it to off and see if that makes your fan run full speed all the time. I disable all the temperature related features out of necessity since my thermal diode is routed off the motherboard, so I'm not speaking from personal experience, just a hunch.

Hoot

thx - i'll try again and see

whats going on guys, just thought I'd say I received an FX53 as a replacement for my 3700 SD since AMD was out of stock of any SD's, its a clawhammer and I believe this is what it said for the model: CAAXC 0433MPMW I took pictures but they didn't come out as clear as I wanted, anyways I'm burning it in with p95 right now and was wondering if there was any suggestions as far as burning in goes? thanks.

Try Sen's Burn-In Technique

Link

Good luck with that chip i think you got a good deal really as long as you can keep the thing cool.

First of all I want to say hello to everyone on this forum.

All this beta bioses are just nerve breaking things. For me vers. 1.8 works pretty good but any other 1.9 related bios is crap. I tried all the NFM 1.9 bioses an I get only errors and no post :nono: With 1.9 "official" I can get my sistem in WIN but only at default speeds not even 1 Mhz more, that`s great heh ?
My sistem: MSI Neo2 Platinum 54 G, A-Data DDR600, Venice 3800+, Asetek dual radi kit Antarctica CPU block, X800XT PE Sapphire watercooled, 2x Maxtor 120 GB Raid 0 on Sata 3 and 4.

My CPU goes up to 2.95 Ghz max benchable frequency at 1.7 volts but my memory stops at 280 @ 2.5-3-3-8. Temp readings on this mobo are just crazy, I`ve reached 60 degrees on Asetek :stick: that`s just wrong.
I hope that MSI will get the final bios up and ready soon.

Hi Ares323

That was the final bios of 1.9 :)

Yes its not to good. Im still using 1.8 rev3 with 1t mod as i think its the best bios made so far.

The temps seem ok for me on my vapochill they scale quite well with the vapochill sensor so im pretty sure its pretty acurate on some boards at least.

Dont know why NFM's 1.9 mods wouldnt work for you but it sounds like a memory setting that is messing with you as thats all he changed in the bios.

The same bios I`m using also. 1.8 Rev 3, I only hoped I can get this 3800+ at 3 Ghz but it seems that I`m out of luck. I tried all the possible settings on my memory but with no luck, I tried also 1.8 volts Vcore but that was a no go. This chip doeas 2.75 Ghz at default Vcore but one step higher I must pump the Vcore over 1.55 volts. I am convinced that my chip can do 3.0 Ghz on a DFI mobo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ares323

...snip...I am convinced that my chip can do 3.0 Ghz on a DFI mobo.

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If you're talking the DFI NF3 Ultra-D, going to that from the Neo2 Platinum is akin to "Jumping from the frying pan into the fire." I just tried that route. It is as screwy as the Neo2. Sure there are a few lucky souls who get great results and the rest of us, like lemmings, give ourselves high blood pressure chasing their good fortune. A test of a good motherboard is not how well a few people get it to overclock, with a few processors and a few memory types. The test is how well the majority of people get it to overclock. Zoom out, read other forums, the NF3 Ultra chipset is doomed because it does not represent the upcoming revenue stream for these manufacturers. It's a bothersome legacy that the manufacturers throw their excess talent at, when they have a little money left in the budget at the end of the month. I'm certainly not going to throw more good money after bad. I'll enjoy my setup for what it's worth and start saving money for when a real solution comes out. Considering how much money that represents, I'll probably have it about the same time that real solution comes out. I'm feeling pretty tired of whipping this horse and it has put me in a cynical mood. That doesn't mean "Not Objective" nor "Trying just to stir the pot", what I said is heart-felt and based upon 30 years experience in the industry. Over that much time, you get a sense in your gut for things. You just heard my "gut feeling".

Hoot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ares323

The same bios I`m using also. 1.8 Rev 3, I only hoped I can get this 3800+ at 3 Ghz but it seems that I`m out of luck. I tried all the possible settings on my memory but with no luck, I tried also 1.8 volts Vcore but that was a no go. This chip doeas 2.75 Ghz at default Vcore but one step higher I must pump the Vcore over 1.55 volts. I am convinced that my chip can do 3.0 Ghz on a DFI mobo.

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If your memory does 280 then cant you use the 11x multi and do 273x11 ? I also had a lot of luck with the 10.5 multi seemed to work well with the san diego 3700.

pretty sure im going to be able to beat 3ghz now what i thought was the cpu crapping out wasnt at all. Ram is scalling quite well with Cas 3 might be able to do 275 x 11 :D. Cas 3 vs 2.5 isnt really noticable in benchmarks from what ive seen as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoot

If you're talking the DFI NF3 Ultra-D, going to that from the Neo2 Platinum is akin to "Jumping from the frying pan into the fire." I just tried that route. It is as screwy as the Neo2. Sure there are a few lucky souls who get great results and the rest of us, like lemmings, give ourselves high blood pressure chasing their good fortune. A test of a good motherboard is not how well a few people get it to overclock, with a few processors and a few memory types. The test is how well the majority of people get it to overclock. Zoom out, read other forums, the NF3 Ultra chipset is doomed because it does not represent the upcoming revenue stream for these manufacturers. It's a bothersome legacy that the manufacturers throw their excess talent at, when they have a little money left in the budget at the end of the month. I'm certainly not going to throw more good money after bad. I'll enjoy my setup for what it's worth and start saving money for when a real solution comes out. Considering how much money that represents, I'll probably have it about the same time that real solution comes out. I'm feeling pretty tired of whipping this horse and it has put me in a cynical mood. That doesn't mean "Not Objective" nor "Trying just to stir the pot", what I said is heart-felt and based upon 30 years experience in the industry. Over that much time, you get a sense in your gut for things. You just heard my "gut feeling".

Hoot

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Hoot i gotta tell you that was very well spoken and 100% true.
and i can only repeat what ive been saying for sometime. If your thinking your gunna run these new chips on this old nf3 chipset your playing a game of roullette your not gunna win. end of story face the fact and go buy a good nf4 or better mobo.



Sideeffect hafve you tried other cpu multipliers. ? like i had mentioned my board with this chip eats up an 8x multi. let me crank an HTT up to 370mhz where as the others dont.

again. this board and a san diego isnt gunna work properly guy i think you know that in your heart of hearts.

For those who care, here's a picture of where to read the Vagp. If you can't get your bearings from the picture, this monitoring point is once again the missing capacitor between the AGP socket and the CPU.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/ne2p/vagp.jpg

Hoot

i was gunna ask if increased stability has been seen when adding that cap back but i realised that 8x agp is only 0.8v

you should set up a website Hoot it dont have to be how to's unless you wanted to but basic info about proper voltage checks on a new 2 and other mobo's that you know about.
it would be quite helpful to so many people.

btw i like those nuts you put on the back of the ATI bracket. you must use a different HSF . I've added a spacer under the center and felt like that added enough pressure to ensure a tighter fit of the hsf. but the nuts are quite a nice touch.
wish i still had my tap and die set id thread tho posts on my stock hsf.



Ya know how wonderful and accurate a DMM reads when you put in a NEW 9v battery ? http://www.myemailemoticons.com/drop...y/funny_20.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

Ya know how wonderful and accurate a DMM reads when you put in a NEW 9v battery ? http://www.myemailemoticons.com/drop...y/funny_20.gif

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LOL.....I was getting wonky readings about 3 weeks ago. I was scratching my head thinking wtf :censored: , as I checked voltage from a new AA battery to verify my meter's accuracy. I should have realized that it needed new batteries when I started to notice that the screen was difficult to read. :brick: :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoot

If you're talking the DFI NF3 Ultra-D

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I was talking about DFI NF4.

I tried to boot with 11x250 , 1.425 + 10% then I upped the Vcore to 1.7 volts and with clockgen to 3 Ghz, ram at 273 @ 3-3-3-8. I get an instant restart when I open SuperPi or Prime.

The 8x multi isnt going to cut it even 370 x 8 is only 2960mhz. The 9x i have tested and the 10x they did no better than each other. The 11x is best for me with the 10.5 showing good results to.

Im pretty keen on staying in 1:1 as its much easier to become stable there. My ram is loving 2.65 volts and is more stable there than at 2.75 and 2.8 volts where it would error.

275 x 11 is 2 hours mb2 stable and superpi 32mb stable so far. Going to test it with Doom3 and Far Cry 64 later.

edit - trying 280 x 11 = 3080mhz memory 280 3-3-4-8. Produced fastest pifast and sisoft mem bandwidth results so far even though i lowered trp to 4 :)

Ares323, you need a new chip to reach 3 Ghz. That 3800+ will never make it :slapass: and I don't even mention 3Ghz and Prime95 in the same sentence.

can i ask why you assume a 3800 wouldnt do 3ghz ?

you see dozens and dozens of 3000's do 3ghz every day so why would you say it wont do 3ghz ?

is it a 3800 venice ? san diego ? winnie newcastle ? what ?
it may not reach it on air but water or colder sure its possible.

and as for Prime and 3ghz in the same sentence ?

how about 2.65ghz and prime not even close dudes.... but i am at 2750 and i can run any game or 3dApp or other program even Pi and it works fine but prime fails... why is that ?

Hi guys Systool has been updated to allow exporting to 3rd party apps so you can now make your own motherboard monitors for neo 2 that actually show the right +12v and +3.3v rails. MBM and speedfan and most other tools dont show the correct reading for the neo 2. Systool does though so try it out if you havnt already.

Heres mine :p:
http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios//monitor.jpg

That sure is the "Swiss Army Knife" of applications. Will it read temperatures off of the SMBus as well as the flawed Winbond 83627 so common on these motherboards?

Hoot

0.1 doesnt show that. i dont see neo2 listed in the mobo section

what application are you using that has that interface look ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sideeffect

The 8x multi isnt going to cut it even 370 x 8 is only 2960mhz. The 9x i have tested and the 10x they did no better than each other. The 11x is best for me with the 10.5 showing good results to.

Im pretty keen on staying in 1:1 as its much easier to become stable there. My ram is loving 2.65 volts and is more stable there than at 2.75 and 2.8 volts where it would error.

275 x 11 is 2 hours mb2 stable and superpi 32mb stable so far. Going to test it with Doom3 and Far Cry 64 later.

edit - trying 280 x 11 = 3080mhz memory 280 3-3-4-8. Produced fastest pifast and sisoft mem bandwidth results so far even though i lowered trp to 4 :)

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Not being too proud to try someone elses recipe, I flashed NFM180_3_1T and had a shot at your results. I was disappointed that I couldn't get more than 11x260 3X 1:1 3-3-3-8-1T, but then I re-read your post and realized that you were using a Vapochill, so I didn't feel too bad. It is a promising version of the 1.80 bios none-the-less. One bright spot was though I could not get above 260 HTT, I could drop the CAS to 2.5 and it still worked. SuperPi was only 29.282 though. When I first got this setup, it would do 10x300 @ 1.64V 3X 5:6 2-3-3-8 @ 1.95, but it seems I have "rode it hard and put it away wet" too many times. :) It was fun trying though.

Hoot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

0.1 doesnt show that. i dont see neo2 listed in the mobo section

what application are you using that has that interface look ?

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samurize

i said ur posts at systool forums sideeffect.... :)

but im not really towards running systool and samurize at the same time to get get temp readings.... btw tat looks nice.. simple and does things right :)

any idea if the NB temp is correct ? coz even corecenter doesn't have this reading...

http://msi-forum.de/thread.php?threa...8d2e8e2b5b8938

New BIOS out. v1.A3

A as in Alpha stage bios ? woah no way if its alpha stage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lestat

A as in Alpha stage bios ? woah no way if its alpha stage

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I believe it's a beta version.

I'm a sucker for a new release. I flashed it and set it to priming before heading off to work. Will see how it's going when I get home.

Hoot

Well systool and samurize together only use a small amount of ram maybe 5mb combined and they can both be started on windows start so its not much of a problem.

The Temp readings all seem about right for me Northbridge temp has that 5000rpm fan beating down on it and does feel cool to the touch so i can quite believe its 20 degrees. The harddrive temps and ambient 6800 temps are all read about the same which suggests its accurate.

Neo 2 is added to systool Lestat in the newer versions you look in Hardware monitoring then settings and motherboard.

Gonna check out that new bios now. Thanks for posting it h4nc0 !

Seems that they have fixed bugs in the venice i dont know how much it will help the san diego. I always thought they were the same chips just with venice chips maybe failing 1mb cache test or being speed bins but it seems that they are not.

Think i might wait for Hoot to post back with results. Good luck Hoot :slap:

Seems they have fixed the voltage fluctuations but in doing so have made the max vcore even lower in this bios can anyone confirm that because i really need 1.63 volts to keep this cpu stable.