Uhh,forgot to change here.No Fix BLCK 100.:shrug:
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GIGABYTE P67A UD7 B2 flashed with F3 BIOS thanks stasio and lsdmeasap
its on 1,42 SET ON BIOS LLC7 holding 1,44 IDLE CPUZ 1,428 LOAD
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4...73dm11llc7.jpg
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Nice Sergio.:up:
Only AIDA64 outdated....:D
I just installed the new F3 BIOS on my UD7 B3 board updating from F3h. The new install gave me the infinite loop on start up but clearing the CMOS fixed that.
I am trying to find the best Vcore/LLC setting with the new LLC levels.
With BIOS F3h LLC Level 1
I had 1.480 set in BIOS for 47X.
This gave me 1.464 idle and 1.428 load (using HWiNFO)
With BIOS F3 LLC Level 6
I have 1.460 set in BIOS for 47X.
I get mostly 1.464 idle with 1.476 sometimes and 1.428 load and 1.440 sometimes.
Does this look good or would you recommend I try any other settings. It seems P95 stable so far. I am testing now but only for just over 2 hours so far. I think what I am trying to understand is which setting is best and why. For example, I could use a higher Vcore set in BIOS with a lower LLC setting or a lower Vcore with a higher LLC setting. Is one preferable over the other as long as I am getting the desired voltage I need for stability which is about 1.428 on load. What if I could get 1.428 on load and idle. Would that be better yet since it seems unnecessary to have more voltage on idle than on load or am I misunderstanding something. I am relatively new to overclocking.
Oddly, (at least I think it is odd), on my UD7 B2 revision board this same CPU needed less Vcore. I had 1.460 set in BIOS and would get 1.452 idle and 1.416 load. This was 24 hour P95 stable. But with the new B3 revision board it was not stable until I increased Vcore to 1.480 (both LLC Level 1 and all other settings the same). I realize every board is different but I am trying to understand why the CPU would need so much more Vcore. I thought the board didn’t matter much in overclocking these chips. Can anyone explain what the difference might be between the 2 boards. Or is that considered a small difference that should be expected going from one board to another.
Thanks, Kent
glad to see you finally hopped on the sandy bandwagon, your going to like it, even if you do have to use a gigabut:ROTF:
after testing both the UD7 and the M4E I can say they are both excellent boards, and I wouldn't mind having either one, but it is a hard choice to pick one so I am gonna keep both of them:up:
now all I need is a 56x or greater cpu
Try LLC level 8 and push the vcore a bit higher.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1302411203
Its a chart i made for the new LLC.
Two things:
1) the chips degrade slightly, or otherwise "break in", after repeated testing like that. You would wind up needing more vcore on your B2, too.
2) Did you actually compare the temps? Your B2 board may have been overvolting...if your temps were lower at the settings you said became unstable on the B3, then your B2 was overvolting. You'd only be able to tell for sure if you had a DMM measure the volts on both boards.
Thanks Falkentyne. I think I understand. I have heard of the degrading. Does this then stabilize after the break in period or does it continuously degrade needing more and more voltage. Or is it different depending how much a chip is overclocked.
Yes I compared the temps and I understand what you are saying that the voltage readings could be different on each board even if using the same software to read it (which may not be accurate). I think the temps were lower but not by much but when I finally found the stable setting on the B3, the temps were higher (due to the degrading chip I suppose) but not by too much and it is difficult to know because the ambient temp may have been a little different plus the way I used the thermal grease also.
Thanks for the help.
Here is another read point if you guys cannot hit the inductor or the back of the board. This is the vsense resistor.
yea but i got it! its actually easy to hit with a probe, and it was simple to solder(I DO NOT ADVOCATE TAKING A SOLDERING IRON TO YOUR BOARD< YOU WILL VOID THE WARRANTY). I like to solder, so i did it.
Honestly you can hit it with a probe if i can solder a wire on it LOL, the choke and cap show basically the same voltage +/- 3mv or so.
I tried what you said and it does slightly raise, but then the falls back down. the cap didn't raise like that, and i think the sudden rise was to charge the caps.
Well, this F3 bios seems not too bad. Didn't experience the boot loops unless OC was way out of line. :D And, finally able to flash back up.....although never went nutz enough to corrupt main. 9 2600K's, best ones 54 multi max. Here is an update of the little 2500K I bought just for the hell of it....pushed it a little more.
Sin,as per your chart and Sergio setting ,my LLC level 7 for 1.4600V in BIOS,give me idle 1.5240V and under wPrime go up to 1.5720V? :shrug:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4254/11042011llc7.png
That is very odd, ill check it again, but i stated under my explanation, that there was some odd stuff going on around level 7 and 1.45v. As i stated i saw a jump to 1. 483v and then back down. It jumped around but i didn't use stuff like wprime and superpi, i used IBT and Prime and had them load for a period of time to get a stable voltage.
What you are seeing is most likely a spike in voltage. But that is very odd, i can't reproduce what you have right there. There is no way it can jump to 1.572v????? that is very weird. What does easytune says?
wprime didn't stress enough, i found that IBT stressed the voltage much better, you just have to wait a few seconds.
Level 6 ,1.4600V in BIOS=>idle 1.51.20...load 1.5360V.
Level 5, 1.4600V in BIOS=>BSOD
Level 5, 1.4700V in BIOS=>idle 1.5120...load 1.5000V.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7...2011level5.png
here youg o man i used Level7 and 1.46v set, and i used wprime.
try clearing your BIOS. I was looking to see if the voltage could actually jump that high, and i didn't see that type of action.
Ok so what i posted above was at 4.5ghz, i went up to 5ghz now. I see more vrise, upto 1.502 on the DMM, 1.484 idle and 1.502 load, software shows 1.488v load.
I believe that as you increase frequency LLC also trys to compensate, that is the best explanation I can give. It seems that No ones results are the same, they just follow the same type of trend. This is because we are all at different frequencies, i did all my testing at 4ghz. Chanign to 4.5ghz changes very slightly, and then changing to 5ghz changes even more. i can redo my testing on 1.45 and 1.5v with 4.5 and 5ghz respectably or something like that. i obvuiously can't do 4.5ghz with 1.23v, or 5ghz with 1.35v.
Yeah,in my 5GHZ,Vcore 1.4700V with level 5 in BIOS, voltage in windows is 1.5000-1.5240V.
interesting. Ill see how much affect the frequency has. Maybe this LLC is more dynamic than initially thought and it compensates differently per current which would be determined by frequency in short.
Stasio:
youre using a B2 crossflashed to B3, right? That may have something to do with that.
I used 5 ghz and LLC5 (not stable in prime though) at 1.450v BIOS and I saw drop down to 1.404v at load (this is on a UD5 B3). 1.445v BIOS->1.390v max drop at load at LLC5.
I'm at LLC6 and 1.440v BIOS and keeping it there for now (usually was 1.424v in blend but saw drops down to 1.404, and 1.404 in small FFT too. Not sure if that will cause problems. I treid LLC6 and 1.445v, but I saw blend running at 1.440v and that was a bit too high for me.
so far so good for my 24/7 setup , running llc6 with 1.460 , giving me 1.440 on load , will lower later but again passed prime 8 hours and did 40 linx passes
prime 8 hour pass :cool:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k7...8hourprime.png
thanks stasio so im not the only one with that seems that when programs dont stress much like SPI, Wprime etc vcore takes a hit acting like old LLC2 but prime, linx make it go down
as for me i had a bsod on IDLE so i put 1,425Vcore on bios giving me 1,452 IDLE and 1,428 LOAD
but maybe giga has to check that as from LLC5 im noticing that vcore going up
Has anyone else noticed that with the new F3 BIOS (LLC Level 6), the Vcore seems to fluctuate more, at least in the software readings I am getting. I have 1.460 set in the BIOS and on idle the Vcore reading in HWiNFO ranges from a low of 1.452 to a high of 1.488. It is mostly on 1.464 or 1.476 but on the F3h BIOS (LLC Level 1) it was almost always 1.464 idle with very little fluctuation.
Different load levels, especially light loads, create odd voltage readings, i found this to be true. but if you are complete idle, 0% on all cores in task manager, and then 100% full load, those are my results. I can't tell you what you are going to get when running superpi lol.
So my word of advise, either use the chart or get a DMM :) because there is no way voltage is always going to match, the idle and load trends will continue. There also is definitely no guarantee that B2 boards BIOS will work exactly the same, even though they should. Good luck, i found that Level 5-6 was pretty good for OCing, but yea voltage fluctuation max and mins are always going to be different, and they will be during different stages, usually not at 0% and 100%.
and sergio i saw that it raised to 1.5v it depends on the clock of the CPU though, i ran wprime and at 5ghz it went to 1.5v. at 100% load with IBT it dropped down, at 0% is was much lower than 1.5v. So that is just light load oddities. I doubt they will be able to do anything about it, and that is why there are 10 levels, some are really weird and some are really great.
Wow Andre what crysis were you playing? 1 or 2?
I tried crysis 1 just now and my vcore ranged from 1.428 (maybe 1.416)-1.452v (BIOS=1.440v LLC6).
(this is on UD5).
Sacred 2 fallen angel had a spike to 1.464v at most but was usually lower
And wprime had this range:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8507/wprimew.png
I saw you and stasio had crossflashed B3's, but Sin confirmed your result with a native B3...
Crysis 2 barely puts 20-25% load on 2600K like most of the games. But you can see your max Vcore.
i still cant find wich one is good, i was happy on LLC7 but today BSOD on IDLE wich sux, then i went to LLC6 and needed LOAD 1,44 to pass prime 1h wich sux again i was passing it at 1,428 LOAD
for now i thing giga needs to adjust this new features, chips could be degrading if you play and load like happens to me
I'm pretty sure SB doesn't like idle voltage under 0.95-1V@1.6GHz. Starting to believe doesn't like high idle Vcore@ high speeds as well.
yea i think they down tuned these LLC levels all together. Who knows they might just take it back to Standard, level1, and level 2. Might be better that way. Level 10 isn't as strong as level 2 was in overvolting, level10 has much more of an offset, but not even close in vrise. I thought those 3 levels were perfect to be very honest, and I think they should take it back. It was just level 2 was overvolting too much and normal users without a DMM could kill their chips easily. Level1 was doing amazing.
I was starting to think they don't like high idle voltage either, it crossed my mind many times.
So you're saying we should just go back to f3g?
I went back to f3g, and ran 45 min of prime then stopped, back at 1.450v and LLC1 (1.416-1.404v load). I'll put it at 1.455v if I need to (might be 1.428-1.416v load).
Didn't like the erratic voltage, even though I was fine at 1.440v and LLC6.
Sorry, don't mean to interrupt the flow but I have to ask..........
I have the B2 board. What is the title of the modified bios and do i simply start @BIOS and load it in? Then I just use normal flash for future bioses?
I Don't want to corrupt the bios with too much numptiness:confused:.
I can relate to that and worse.
I ordered a MIVE B3 and got a well used old board (dust between heatsink vains and heatsink scratches on back) with the B3 sticker across two PCIe16 connectors. I simply removed my UD7 and slotted the MIVE in, same PSU, ram, CPU and connections plus the extra two molex connectors that worked on my UD7 (inside box for cooling) and powered up and................DOA!
UD7 simply slotted back in......fired up no problem.
Tried various component combo's, and bios installs and CMOS clears, resets, no go. MIVE RMA'ed .
Not a good start:down:
What levels of this new LLC you guys think is like good all LLC1 ?
I don't know :(
I know the UD4 has a bug where setting 1.20 VTT gives 1.78 vcore on F3.
And the UD5/7 we have has erratic voltage swings with this LLC settings (no idea about 1.20 VTT bug, NOT going to find out either).
I went back to f3g for now, until everything is fixed...
yeah seems we all agree of this lets ask GIGABYTE to solve this, the 10 levels is cute but need to be at least exact, as now you like my case i was stable on old F8f and cant find a match of volts for it on this bios nor F8
CPU-Z 1.57.1
ftp://ftp.cpuid.com/cpu-z/cpu-z_1.57.1-setup-en.exe
-fix bug for Gigabyte B3 boards.
-added "Dual Channels" notification.
awesome, anyways I think they will just leave you guys with LLC 3 levels. There is more tweaking that can be done, but its very hard to please everyone, so I don't think you'll see this again. Its just a tiny glimpse of whatt type of LLC levels they can incorporate. Maybe you guys shoudl just do a Vdroop mod lol and satisfy yourselves LOL. pin FB to remote voltage sense with 50k pot set to 20k would do the trick.
You know what I would love to see? Just a vdroop mod done already on the board with a pot on teh board, LLC is comthing for advanced users, and I think a dedicated physical pot on a board that comes with it shiped would be a great idea, hint hint. Of course i am wierd.
stasio did you already notify GB about the 1.78v bug?
So please beware anyone who has JUST flashed BIOS F3, please upon the first boot after flash, go into the BIOS and load optimized defaults and exit and save. If you do not do this, and you set a 1.2v qpi/vtt or higher, the board will set your VCORE to 1.78v.
Yea,they send me new beta GA-P67A-UD7-B3 - F4a.
Hmm,LLC any level+DVID still bug.
Still testing.
I think I'll skip this round if it comes out for UD5, until a brave person can see if the LLC erratic wildness (randomly overshoot more than it should at light load, undershoot at full) is fixed or not... (don't care about DVID, but I DO care if my CPU suddenly gets 1.78v through it...)
1.7V only occurs via improper BIOS flashing or usage (IE Old profiles with new BIOS, or Not starting with Optimized Defaults after the flash then save/apply/reboot)
Many of the users here already practice proper procedures so no need to worry about 1.7x Vcore, unless you do the above :)
But there's a problem.
Someone said he had the 1.78v bug after he properly cleared CMOS after flashing.
And Sin said you're supposed to load optimized defaults, *then* clear cmos :/
Why would this matter?
Clearing CMOS clears everything, so it's like starting fresh.
What does loading optimized defaults do? And why would this matter if you're going to clear the CMOS anyway?
Because every flash I've done, I power off the computer right away, without restarting, I unplug the power supply, press the clear CMOS button a few times, hook everything up, then go in BIOS and set all my settings again. I've never loaded optimized defaults before...
Are you saying that if I do this WITHOUT 1) loading optimized defaults and 2) clearing CMOS AFTER loading optimized defaults, this 1.78v bug will happen?
I didn't mention clearing CMOS at all after flashing, nor did I mention that doing so at anytime solved or had anything to do with the 1.7V issue.
Not sure what Sin meant, maybe he was sleeping, but loading optimized then clearing the CMOS would be a moot point (I mean no need to set something right before you clear it out?) Sin, when you see this I'm just giving ya a hard time buddy :D
Nope to all of your questions, that's not at all how I suggest a BIOS to be updated. We have talked about clearing CMOS before, and yes that can help when you are having issues, or could be suggested as a safe practice to get into, but I only use it when issues arise and didn't suggest it having anything to do with flashing BIOSes. Loading optimized sets a few settings to optimal setting, and clears out any old visible or invisible settings that may still be applied from fail safe after the flash (Fail safe is loaded no matter what you choose before the flash).
Here is how I suggest users to update their BIOSes.
http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...ash-guide.html
If this procedure is used, and you do not load/use any older saved to media BIOS profiles, you will not see the bug. Profiles can only be loaded from a saved source after flashing using the above method because once you flash and disable keep DMI data they will be erased same as clearing the CMOS.
Ok I understand.
I just got worried because someone who said they had the 1.78v bug claimed that they did clear the cmos before it happened.
Usually I don't mind testing bugs, but this is a bug I don't want to have to test :(
Clearing the CMOS should correct it theoretically, but due to how clearing the CMOS can leave settings and or profiles behind in P67, it's hard to say if that user fully cleared the CMOS or only partially which is what happens most of the time unless you purposefully do an extended clear which wipes the CMOS completely. So he probably did a short clear CMOS, leaving some older things in tact, and or along with that used an old profile.
Hard to say without being there to see it happen. I could test clearing CMOS and then using this BIOS in question, but I already know the outcome of a fully cleared CMOS or flashing via the methods I suggest, and this wouldn't happen in either of those instances so it would be a waste of time really so I wont test. I have no problem testing, but I'd have to re-insulate my board and set it up on phase, and since I know how to and how not to make the bug happen it would kind of be pointless for me to setup and test.
Lsd,
I've always lost all of my profiles when I clear the CMOS. Everything is reset and the CPU is reset to running at 35x100 even though the BIOS shows 34x100, it has 4 cores turbo active. But I make sure I unplug the power supply before pressing the clear CMOS button. It has worked every time,including that one time when I set power/amp limit to 35W once (because I was bored) and the PC kept freezing at the CPUID string repeatedly and restarting after 20 seconds (or just freezing forever); even the RESET button didn't work. But Clear CMOS with power off/plugged worked like a charm.
Hmm...I went over 1000 posts recently and didn't even notice it...maybe I did it today?
Yes, because you clear the CMOS fully and properly. Some users do not, and if you leave the board powered on and only clear the CMOS for a short period you can still load saved profiles and old "Current or last known good/last boot, ect" settings are still available as well
I'm not able to change my B2 board (which works fine) and so I was wondering about your abhorrence at using @BIOS. I had to use said @BIOS to get away from the old, initial F3 bios as shipped with the board. I'm sorry if I missed anything but will I not need @BIOS again to get into the B3 board bioses?
B2=>B3 and B3=>B2 BIOS is possible only with @BIOS.
Latest version works fine.
Here is a review I did for P67A-UD7-B3 if anyone is interested. cheers
Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD7-B3 Review
Very well done review. Hope GB notices it and can someday send you hardware to test.
I noticed your CPU VID was 1.21v at default (same as mine but oddly enough, f3g says its 1.215v and f3 final says 1.21v but sometimes spikes in bios to 1.215v). And both our chips seem to do the same on air (I found 1.455v LLC1->1.416 to 1.28v load to be nice and stable), except yours can do x58 and mine x54 max :( Waahhh
What's the max your chip can do (on air) with PLL override disabled? X53?
Thanks for the nice words on the review, much appreciated. cheers
well after trying mostly all the combos of LLC i realized that more vdimm was needed to pass prime at LLC7 this bios F3 and latest F8 or F8h as for more vdimm, and the tendency keeps going up...on F7e i needed just 1,66 on F8f 1,68 now on F8 or F3 from B3 1,7 to maintain 2133 C7 at 5ghz, i can pass easy on 1600 C7 or whatever
Memory degradation?
Load F7e again and confirm it.