[NEWS] AMD Zen stream, Ryzen!

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Originally Posted by AliG

Way to take what I said entirely out of context...

First you snip just half a line of my 2 paragraphs (I'm guessing just to troll), then you ignore the "as far as we know" part. That kind of implies we don't know anything...

Really wish XS still had the ignore button at times...

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I omitted the part that wasnt a part of the thing i was replying to, there is nothing of substance missing, you HARDLY implied 4ghz clocks of the high end SKU "as far as we know" , when there is nada evidence for that and nobody KNOWS that.As for a weird flame attempt.I dont get why you do this but to each his own.

and yea, also that:

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Originally Posted by AliG

...AMD is claiming Zen not only overclocks well...

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No.They are not.
And yes, i didnt quoted the whole post again for the sake of people out there that should not be forced to read 1 whole post 3 times.

Just for kicks and giggles

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... "as far as we know" part. That kind of implies we don't know anything..."

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, man, this is some BS kung fu right there :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by StAndrew

I mentioned OEM systems and costs in my post so I'm right with you. Its just concerning for me that silicon optimizations are still ongoing. In the context of this forum I think a large chunk of us prefer a chip that can clock well, not just perform well at stock speeds. I think AMD will release this chip without fully refining the silicon, it won't clock well, and in this community, may not get received well. Again, I'm speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see new chips based on a new revision before the end of 2017 with much better results. To this end, I'm not committed to buying a Ryzen at launch.



I haven't seen any claims from AMD on overclocking (not implying anything, just haven't seen it) but I have seen the boost concept which looks like it would work well (if the silicon would allow it). I also know what they claimed in the past so forgive me if I temper my expectations a bit. Considering the fact they are still revising silicon, this soon before launch, makes those claims sound very optimistic. That's all I'm saying.

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Yup that is true about overclocking. People here are also more into that.

I will say this about my current feelings on OCing.
If you system is for gaming mostly OCing will not do much for you.
I run two systems here. One is a 5960x and the other is 2x E5-2699 v3's. But systems use ASUS boards, the 5960x system uses Auto OC in the BIOS.
I ran both systems with the same GPU... asus 1080 gtx strix for a test with 4K display.

In the games I tested I saw no real difference in FPS on either system. The biggest single improvement for your system if you game is the GPU. The OC hardly matters at all.

I would suspect OEM AMD systems will be paired with AMD GPU's, these should be beastly systems and if the price point is a lot lower than Intel/Nvidia that's what people will buy.

I also suspect shortly after AMD releases these new CPU's Intel and Nvidia will counter back with parts that will lay waste to AMD, but again at a higher price point.

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Originally Posted by vario

I omitted the part that wasnt a part of the thing i was replying to, there is nothing of substance missing, you HARDLY implied 4ghz clocks of the high end SKU "as far as we know" , when there is nada evidence for that and nobody KNOWS that.As for a weird flame attempt.I dont get why you do this but to each his own.

and yea, also that:

No.They are not.
And yes, i didnt quoted the whole post again for the sake of people out there that should not be forced to read 1 whole post 3 times.

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Andddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd.

Added you to the "mental ignore list."

Bye bye.

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

Yup that is true about overclocking. People here are also more into that.

I will say this about my current feelings on OCing.
If you system is for gaming mostly OCing will not do much for you.
I run two systems here. One is a 5960x and the other is 2x E5-2699 v3's. But systems use ASUS boards, the 5960x system uses Auto OC in the BIOS.
I ran both systems with the same GPU... asus 1080 gtx strix for a test with 4K display.

In the games I tested I saw no real difference in FPS on either system. The biggest single improvement for your system if you game is the GPU. The OC hardly matters at all.

I would suspect OEM AMD systems will be paired with AMD GPU's, these should be beastly systems and if the price point is a lot lower than Intel/Nvidia that's what people will buy.

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Completely agree on the overclock. Unless you are buying a very low clocked/cheap CPU. But don't down play the "online cred" factor. Sure the top tiered product generally doesn't make up much of the market share but it does drive the sales for the mainstream market.

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

I also suspect shortly after AMD releases these new CPU's Intel and Nvidia will counter back with parts that will lay waste to AMD, but again at a higher price point.

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As has been the case since forever :p:

I know LOL

Its good to see AMD coming out with what appears to be a good processor tho, its about time :)

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

I know LOL

Its good to see AMD coming out with what appears to be a good processor tho, its about time :)

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I'm really curious to see how it does in the power consumption realm. Last I recall, AMD and Intel measure TDP differently so we can't directly compare off the spec alone.

But it would be really cool if it did offer 6900k-ish performance with 30% less power. I think that alone would be a huge selling point to the server world.

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

If you system is for gaming mostly OCing will not do much for you.

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really depends on the system and the games
at 4k most new games will be completely gpu bottlnecked to under 60fps without a titan or two

i see ~35% performance increase in arma3\fallout4 from overclocking ram and cpu in the 30-60fps range ~5-10% from 6700k@4.7ghz ~25-30% from ram at 3866c16

in other games the gtx 1070 sees a decent performance increase by overclocking to +100 +800 bringing it up close to reference gtx1080 performance level
in a lot of games this makes more difference than a stock 2600k vs a overclocked 6700k at 1080p let alone 4k

I would agree with you on the games played.

Mine usually are... DOOM, Path Of Exile, D3, Star Citizen, War Thunder, Civ Games. I saw no real difference between those game on each system posted. Nothing to write home about anyway.

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

I would agree with you on the games played.

Mine usually are... DOOM, Path Of Exile, D3, Star Citizen, War Thunder, Civ Games. I saw no real difference between those game on each system posted. Nothing to write home about anyway.

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I'm totally not respecting anything you say on this forum because you don't have enough overclocks.

lol

Skylake systems cant oc.

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Originally Posted by StAndrew

I'm totally not respecting anything you say on this forum because you don't have enough overclocks.

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HAHA :)

Well I use ASUS Auto OC !

Sadly my main rig is a dualy and it hard OC's enough to even think about... 103 BCLK :(
Unlock the Xeons !! as Dave would say :)

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

HAHA :)

Well I use ASUS Auto OC !

Sadly my main rig is a dualy and it hard OC's enough to even think about... 103 BCLK :(
Unlock the Xeons !! as Dave would say :)

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:p:

I guess AMD jumped the gun on this one, i watched the whole Ryzen intro video, i dont think they would lie or start a video stream like that, that way, if they could not deliver it, however now they have to deliver.

I liked all the features, the demos were lame though.

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Originally Posted by Metroid

I guess AMD jumped the gun on this one, i watched the whole Ryzen intro video, i dont think they would lie or start a video stream like that, that way, if they could not deliver it, however now they have to deliver.

I liked all the features, the demos were lame though.

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In fairness, they actually showed off more than usual. I still think they did a lot of hand waiving, but the amount of transparency with Zen compared to their previous major launches has been night and day. That alone gives me confidence it'll be a solid competitor.

i can't wait for zen's secret weapon to come out. the platform.
nvRAM non-volitile DRAM. means the future of computing is competely different from what we have today.

the APU's for workstations will have a shared cpu/gpu with same 1TB of nvRAM as found in the new workstation cards. but in a budget. the consumer will get the same techs by 2020. resulting in VR equal to the real work, with pre rendered imaging and the 60+GB/s coherhent fabric.

Will pre rendered aka pre processed, textures be idling in nvRAM after reboots. will level load times, turn to only data side with all gpu side pre rendered waiting in dram. will the same get applied to processor side.

I really can't wait to see what the PLATFORM, means for near future of software. non volite dram is the game changer coming with ZEN. which is why i think they said, oh and next year we'll be doing this show again. cause the nvRAM is not yet in the market. but next year we can show that off too. along with zen apu?

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Originally Posted by Greg83

i can't wait for zen's secret weapon to come out. the platform.
nvRAM non-volitile DRAM. means the future of computing is competely different from what we have today.

the APU's for workstations will have a shared cpu/gpu with same 1TB of nvRAM as found in the new workstation cards. but in a budget. the consumer will get the same techs by 2020. resulting in VR equal to the real work, with pre rendered imaging and the 60+GB/s coherhent fabric.

Will pre rendered aka pre processed, textures be idling in nvRAM after reboots. will level load times, turn to only data side with all gpu side pre rendered waiting in dram. will the same get applied to processor side.

I really can't wait to see what the PLATFORM, means for near future of software. non volite dram is the game changer coming with ZEN. which is why i think they said, oh and next year we'll be doing this show again. cause the nvRAM is not yet in the market. but next year we can show that off too. along with zen apu?

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I love your post's dude, they give me a laugh sometimes :).
For 1, even if your rom storage was fast as ram, I'de hate to break it to ya but shader cache doesn't get reused..., it gets invalidated each time you ran the app again.
So even if you could store all the calc's and such for all your games, ahead of time, nvidia at the least won't use it (in linux I set it on a self expanding ram drive, it puts the shaders in there, and can eventually use them if you don't quit the app).

Also we're not waiting on a rom replacement for ram, not yet, that's a niche that's not that useful.
The next big thing will probably be a sort of l4 cache, either on dimm (like ibm) or on the cpu via hbm2 or intel's alt.
Probably for igp's 1st, obviously, for vga ram.
Maybe, maybe later, it'll mature into a sort of l4, or perhaps even onboard ram (where the cpu can boot without actual dimm's).


And I really hate to bust the vr bubble, but I honestly think it's a fad, other then business use (ship designing, intel agencies, commando's lol, etc, just misc whatever).
There was a vr fad back in the 90's, same thing.
The only thing you get out of it is the ability to look freely, I don't really care about huds in helmet's (xplane maybe or whatever).
3D is cool, but the 20+ multi view non-glasses 3d screens that were shown 2011-2012, never showed up for comsumers.
Reminds me of oled, I head of it probably 20 years ago, it was supposed to come up in a year lol, we're just now actually getting them in tv/monitor's, we had them for a little bit on some cell phones (mines got an amoled).

I agree about VR being a fad, but I do see promise with AR.

A lot of other industries have been working on integrating AR behind the scenes; all it takes is one major player and you shortly have full market penetration.

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Originally Posted by vario

We ABSOLUTELY do not know that, if anything from all the rumours and the presentation itself we can extrapolate that they ATM cant clock this stably higher.maybe im wrong, but im trying to be up to date, and have not seen anything to the contrary.
Lisa said that they are runnigng 3,4ghz flat because they "have not finished optimizations" and the clock WILL NOT BE LOWER than 3,4Ghz.But it only means they can run 3,4Ghz reliably and will attempt more.

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What Lisa actually said was, "Now, let's talk about frequency. All that speculation out there about frequency. Today I can tell you that our Ryzen processor at launch will have base clock speeds of 3.4 GHz or higher. Each Ryzen processor will also have a boost mode, and we're going to announce those boost frequencies at launch next quarter."

Later when the Blender demo started, she stated the test conditions which brought up frequency again. There, she stated, "So, we're going to start first with the Blender 3D modeling and rendering application. This is actually a great CPU test because it scales very, very well with cores and threads. And we have two demo systems. We have Ryzen which is running at 3.4 GHz, running without boost. And, we have the only other 8-core, 16-thread processor on the market, the Intel Core i7-6900K, running at its stock 3.2 GHz base and 3.7 GHz boost. No adjustments. Just straight out of the box. Everything else about these two systems is the same."

As far as I know, the only time she mentioned optimization not being complete was in the context of bragging about Zen's power to performance ratio against its Intel opponent in the demo. She said, "Ryzen at 3.4 GHz without boost actually matches the performance of the 6900K that currently lists for about 1100 dollars. What do you think of that? *crowd applauds* Ok, even better than that, the Ryzen part in this demo will ship at 95 watt TDP so our performance is matching the 140 watt TDP of 6900K stock with lower power before we have finished optimizing the performance. *crowd applauds*"

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Originally Posted by Particle

What Lisa actually said was, "Now, let's talk about frequency. All that speculation out there about frequency. Today I can tell you that our Ryzen processor at launch will have base clock speeds of 3.4 GHz or higher. Each Ryzen processor will also have a boost mode, and we're going to announce those boost frequencies at launch next quarter."

Later when the Blender demo started, she stated the test conditions which brought up frequency again. There, she stated, "So, we're going to start first with the Blender 3D modeling and rendering application. This is actually a great CPU test because it scales very, very well with cores and threads. And we have two demo systems. We have Ryzen which is running at 3.4 GHz, running without boost. And, we have the only other 8-core, 16-thread processor on the market, the Intel Core i7-6900K, running at its stock 3.2 GHz base and 3.7 GHz boost. No adjustments. Just straight out of the box. Everything else about these two systems is the same."

As far as I know, the only time she mentioned optimization not being complete was in the context of bragging about Zen's power to performance ratio against its Intel opponent in the demo. She said, "Ryzen at 3.4 GHz without boost actually matches the performance of the 6900K that currently lists for about 1100 dollars. What do you think of that? *crowd applauds* Ok, even better than that, the Ryzen part in this demo will ship at 95 watt TDP so our performance is matching the 140 watt TDP of 6900K stock with lower power before we have finished optimizing the performance. *crowd applauds*"

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Yup.Yes, Thats what happened ;-) .Very precise. maybe im wrong, but i thought that power optimization can and likely will have an impact on the final clocks.
However i may add, there are so many unknowns at this point, we dont know what kind of work is still going on the platform.One thing to note is, we have 2/3 of december.And there is no info about motherboards. Cpus and/or the platform are not finished.Its doubtful this thing will launch in january :( .Realistic timeframe for me seems to me to be march.
Also turbo is still in the works, and that can mean few things, it can be some simple engineering problem, or it may be silicon dependent, or just some code to "massage".Either way.We dont know.

Any body here from the Conroe days, when Intel had a game changer there was lots of ES, lots of benchs before lunch, everybody knew that it will easily beat the best FX CPU by good margin with lower clocks and it will clock higher.
If AMD have a winner then we should have seen lots of ES by now, I can only think on another RX480 bubble

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Originally Posted by kemo

Any body here from the Conroe days, when Intel had a game changer there was lots of ES, lots of benchs before lunch, everybody knew that it will easily beat the best FX CPU by good margin with lower clocks and it will clock higher.
If AMD have a winner then we should have seen lots of ES by now, I can only think on another RX480 bubble

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Yea, but do you remember how much of a surprise the first athlon was ?
They obviously have SOME problems with the platform, it should be here already.But this showcase they did, well , there were hard numbers there that cant be negated, its true 8 cores, performance is on par broadwell-E at least in these two benchmarks.So even if they have some problems with it, like clocks or power.Its not gonna be faildozer again for sure.
Also AMD is a tight ship in recent years, maybe its just because they dont have so many clients to deal with as intel.
Also RX480 is a decent chip, it was hype from end users that wasnt met.
RX480 is kinda similar to 290X, it was kinda :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty on start, but few months later and all is good.With RX480They just didnt compete in high end at all (which is a bad move for sure)

i believe vr will be more than a fad if they can improved the lenses enough to double the fov in a timely manner so its not likely running around looking through binoculars and aaa games start getting made with full support
although i would still be sitting down using kb\mouse with one

broadwell showed what even a slow l4 cache can do for cpu performance so with some luck it will be used in the future

if the debug chips with pins along the top aka protypes were using at first, 40% expected ips increase a ULV process now they're into the LV process with final silicon gonna have no debug, just errata INF's after the fact. if a code path optimization turns out broken in real world for certain applications of it.
with HP process about to happen why release of zen then, 3.4 ghz might not be final base clock nor top sku. with turbo optmizations in the final silicon envelop. with refreshes coming with a fin(finish)FE(iron)t cross, aka diffusion. probally the whole diffused in germany thing with revision chips.

Hi.