"8800GT effect" not with GTX 460, but with GTX 465

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

05-04-2010, 03:10 AM
Sam_oslo

The 5 in GTX 465 indicates a double-GPU to me. Maybe nVidia is trying to cut the power/heat by cutting the number of cores to make a 460x2 ?
05-04-2010, 03:10 AM
trinibwoy

How is availability in Europe? Cause either ATi isn't as popular there or there isn't any stock of 470's.
05-04-2010, 03:13 AM
NeXaR

@ Sam_Oslo
Yeah, like the 5 in 285, right?
05-04-2010, 03:16 AM
Sam_oslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeXaR

Yeah, like the 5 in 285, right?

No that's older, but like 295, right?

Besides, I don't see how nVidia can squeeze a single-GPU between 460 and 470. There is no space there, right?
05-04-2010, 03:17 AM
saaya

Quote:

Originally Posted by dartaz

GTX 465 doesn't look much slower than 470 on paper. It only has slightly smaller bus size, and slight less steam processors.

I would say it will be about ~ %15-%20 slower than 470

i think your hoping more than your making a guess :D

480 = 480sps@700mhz and 384bit@924mhz
470 = 448sps@600mhz and 320bit@837mhz
7% less@16% lower clocks and 20% less@10% lower clocks

first the clocks, then the functional units
so 93% of 84% = 78%
so a 470 has around 78% of a 480s raw gpu performance

80% of 90% = 72%
so a 470 has around 78% of a 480s raw memory performance

if you even that out weighing in both equally, you end up with 75%
so overall a 470 has 75% a 480s raw processing performance

now lets do the same for a 460 and lets assume 600mhz clocks which is reasonable. and lets assume the same memory clocks as well, which is also reasonable.

480 = 480sps@700mhz and 384bit@924mhz
460 = 384sps@600mhz and 256bit@837mhz
25% less@16% lower clocks and 50% less@10% lower clocks

so 75% of 84% = 63%
so a 460 has around 63% of a 480s raw gpu performance

50% of 90% = 45%
so a 460 has around 45% of a 480s raw memory performance

if you even that out weighing in both equally, you end up with 54%
so overall a 460 has 54% a 480s raw processing performance

and you will notice that the gpu will be notably more powerful than the memory bandwidth the gpu gets... which seems oddly unbalanced... its likely therefor that the gpu will come clocked below 600mhz by default. or the memory would come clocked higher...
either way, the 460 will be at least as much slower as a 470 as that one is slower compared to a 480.

sounds like nvidia got a pretty clean performance bin there...
480 =~100%
470=~75%
460=~50%

but where does that put a 460 in relation to other cards?
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...TX_470/30.html

HD5770/gtx260... OUCH! :S
hmmmm so nvidia MUST clock the 460 higher than 600mhz... otherwise itll be a pathetic little piece of silicon with no right to exist... i mean at 600mhz it would only be as fast as a GTX260... which can be found for almost half the rumored MSRP of a 460/465... ouch...

a 460 being close to a 5850 is IMPOSSIBLE if you ask me, seeing as a 470 is only 3% faster than a 5850 on average, so they are about the same...
they could clock the 460 really high, maybe... but why would they clock it to 90% of a 470s performance?
to majorly pss off all their 470 and 480 customers? lol :D
05-04-2010, 03:18 AM
kromosto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

No that's older, but like 295, right?

Besides, I don't see how nVidia can squeeze a single-GPU between 460 and 470. There is no space there, right?

i dont need to go between 460 and 470 it can eaily be 470 replacement.
05-04-2010, 03:23 AM
saaya

so theres supposed to be a 460 and 465? both in june?
that doesnt make any sense guys... i think somebody misunderstood things here... some call the new part 460 and some 465...
or the 460 is coming out in june and nvidia hopes for a 8800gt success with the 265 which will be based on gf104 and will come out in a couple of months...

launching a 460 and 465 at the same time makes absolutely no sense... :p:
05-04-2010, 03:26 AM
NeXaR

Sam, either way you look at it, there are more nvidia single-gpu XX5 cards than dual-gpu (285 + 275 vs 295). Besides, I don't expect a dual card before a refresh or die-shrink of some sort, except maybe one of those limited edition behemots, a la Ares, Mars, etc. But I'm no expert nor do I have any kind of insider info, so I can be totally wrong.
05-04-2010, 03:28 AM
Vardant

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

but where does that put a 460 in relation to other cards?
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...TX_470/30.html
HD5770/gtx260... OUCH! :S

Like in the case of 9600GT vs 8800GT? Theory is one thing, but it doesn't always work like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

a 460 being close to a 5850 is IMPOSSIBLE if you ask me, seeing as a 470 is only 3% faster than a 5850 on average

GTX 470 3% faster on average? Isn't it more like 10-15%? :rolleyes:
05-04-2010, 03:41 AM
Sam_oslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeXaR

Sam, either way you look at it, there are more nvidia single-gpu XX5 cards than dual-gpu (285 + 275 vs 295). Besides, I don't expect a dual card before a refresh or die-shrink of some sort, except maybe one of those limited edition behemots, a la Ares, Mars, etc. But I'm no expert nor do I have any kind of insider info, so I can be totally wrong.

I don't know either, just guessing like you. But 2 single-GPU that apparently are very close to each other at the same time, doesn't sounds like a logical move (for nVidia's sales numbers), unless something really fishy is going on. Something like maybe nVidia is replacing both 480 and 470 with these?
05-04-2010, 03:48 AM
NeXaR

Or 460 is rev a3 and 465 is rev B1. It's nvidia after all, no logic is necessarily involved :D
05-04-2010, 03:52 AM
AAbenson

its been already more than half a year since the radeon 5xxx release,so it wont be a science fiction theory that ATI reduces prices across board to like :
5830 <= 150euro ;
5850 <= 200euro;
5870 <= 250euro;

i still dont understand why ATI is not doing this right now,it would basically kill nVidia just like Intel used to do to AMD whenever similiar situation arised.
05-04-2010, 04:06 AM
Oberon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

I don't know either, just guessing like you. But 2 single-GPU that apparently are very close to each other at the same time, doesn't sounds like a logical move (for nVidia's sales numbers), unless something really fishy is going on. Something like maybe nVidia is replacing both 480 and 470 with these?

All you have to do is look at the expected TDP to see that this can't be a dual-GPU card. NVIDIA can't get a single Fermi chip under 200W that isn't massively castrated, let alone two of them.
05-04-2010, 04:26 AM
RejZoR

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAbenson

its been already more than half a year since the radeon 5xxx release,so it wont be a science fiction theory that ATI reduces prices across board to like :
5830 <= 150euro ;
5850 <= 200euro;
5870 <= 250euro;

i still dont understand why ATI is not doing this right now,it would basically kill nVidia just like Intel used to do to AMD whenever similiar situation arised.

Have you ever thought of shorter signature? Because your post is not as long as your signature...

As for the pricing, why would AMD do this now? They'll do that when new GTX's hit the stores...
05-04-2010, 05:21 AM
Zonker

256bit x 800mhz memory. That puts it exactly halfway between 5770 and 5830 for memory bandwidth.

Is the 5830 really so memory rich that they can go that low on the memory and still hope to beat it?
05-04-2010, 05:23 AM
freeloader

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

wtf are you talking about?

So Nvidia shouldn't make a cropped version of the GF100 chip?

since when making mainstream cards "desperation"?

It's more than likely GF100 rejects, not a cropped version. Either way if they can sell them, it's better than scrapping them I guess.
05-04-2010, 05:26 AM
ElSel10

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

wtf are you talking about?

So Nvidia shouldn't make a cropped version of the GF100 chip?

since when making mainstream cards "desperation"?

It's Nvidia. What else is there to know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeloader

It's more than likely GF100 rejects, not a cropped version. Either way if they can sell them, it's better than scrapping them I guess.

Ah, that's for clearing that up. So what are your views on the 5850 and 5830 then?
05-04-2010, 05:32 AM
B-Shot

Well if nvidia wanted the 8800 effect with a newer card, it should look at the bang for the buck like the ATI 4830.....Just my:2cents:, instead of high hopes with a high price.
05-04-2010, 05:33 AM
annihilat0r

I'll go a little saaya on this one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behemot

5850 150w etc

5850 is 150w but 5830 is 170w (possibly higher). So this card is going to be faster than a 5830 and will pull 40w more on load.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dami3n

Here you can find a good 5850 for 249 euros, but you cant find a GTX470 under 330 euros :down:

Quote:

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

How is availability in Europe? Cause either ATi isn't as popular there or there isn't any stock of 470's.

Availability in Europe is pretty much terrible. Dunno if you count Turkey as in Europe :D but availability here pretty much reflects Europe. Fermi prices are insane here as well. This week there is a deal on Gigabyte Fermi cards ($330 for 470 and $480 for 480) but apart from that, the prices are terrible. I think they'll go down this month or the next, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vardant

GTX 470 3% faster on average? Isn't it more like 10-15%? :rolleyes:

Nope, the card that is 10-15% faster than the 5850 is the 5870. The 470 is somewhere inbetween, leaning more towards to the 5850 side. However, 470 has better overclocking response than the ATI cards and I believe if you overclock all three cards on air to their limits, 470 will be on par with 5870.

470s can really overclock like crazy, one guy (with exceptional case cooling, 12 fans :eek:) went up to 900mhz on air at 75% fan speed, and says its stable :eek: that's a 50% overclock!
05-04-2010, 05:41 AM
Manicdan

the 8800GT effect was due to consoles just being released and no game needed much more power than it offered, you can still enjoy any new game that came out recently on those cards. the 465 effect will not happen, and they can just ignore the idea completely.

with sony still talking about a 10 year life on the ps3, and some rumors of a new xbox console in the next 2 years, we might see the same effect with a nvidia 600 card, or ati 8000 card
05-04-2010, 05:51 AM
Vardant

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

Nope, the card that is 10-15% faster than the 5850 is the 5870.

I always check cb.de before posting numbers, just to be safe and 5870 is more like 20% faster, but that's not the point.

Saying GTX 470 is only 3% faster is not even close.
05-04-2010, 06:30 AM
zalbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfat

Prices are way to high for '8800GT effect'.

So is TDP. :p:
05-04-2010, 06:42 AM
cegras

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

5850 is 150w but 5830 is 170w (possibly higher). So this card is going to be faster than a 5830 and will pull 40w more on load.

Did any common sense alarms go off in your head when you typed that out?
05-04-2010, 06:47 AM
Blacky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly Fox

Nvidia's desperation gets more and more sad with every day.

You'd think they'd have the dignity to just lay low and get to making something worthwhile. :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

wtf are you talking about?

So Nvidia shouldn't make a cropped version of the GF100 chip?

since when making mainstream cards "desperation"?

^ This, I thought exactly the same :ROTF:
05-04-2010, 06:48 AM
bamtan2

Quote:

Originally Posted by cegras

Did any common sense alarms go off in your head when you typed that out?

he is right though. 5830 is a broken 5850 that needs more power just to run.

it would be reasonable for a new nvidia card to be faster than 5830 and use more power.

ps: 8800gt sold incredibly well and was recommended by every website. that is obviously what they mean by 8800gt effect.

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page