Winbond BH-6 , BH-5 , CH-5 , UTT........3.6Volts max...... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wtz54321
http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/T..._elcar_png.png
Printable View
Winbond BH-6 , BH-5 , CH-5 , UTT........3.6Volts max...... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wtz54321
http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/T..._elcar_png.png
WRONG.........I'm with 2 x Winbond BH-6 @ 3.45Volts 24/7 crunching first SETI and now D20L......NO problem at all.......Also SETI is working Rams a LOT and it is VERY memory depentant......Quote:
Originally Posted by FiNcH64
On my other system also BH-5 and BH-6 (one and one) is crunching 24/7 @ 3.35Vdimm..... ;)
EDIT : I'm almost OVER 2 years with those Rams and I never have worked them BELOW 3.3Vdimm.....NEVER..... :D
hey hipro, kinda off topic but hows ur maximizer comming along? Also do u know what the cause of the deaths are? It seems to be happening to both tccd and winbond memory on the 5v rail setting and with it off so it seems like a lot of people will be affected by this.
Off topic...it's coming to solves those problems any time soon......We had to fabricate it and assemble it in Taiwan coz the cost here in Hellas was TOO HIGH...... ;) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by P_1
I think that those problems are focusing on the VERY start up of the mobo....It might "give" to Rams a big and high pulse(Vdimm) spice or so.....Next week I'll get once again a mobo my shelf so as to investigate this..... :)
I wish we could get an acknowledgement from DFI that they are at least looking into this problem. May be we should start a petition or something? Because once, again, it is a good board, I would like to keep it, but I don't want to keep killig my RAM. I have just got my brand spanking new TwinMOS BH-5 and OCZ EL BH-5, but I am not putting them into this board which kind of sucks. I also suspect that my Patriot XBLK was also damaged damaged.
After reading threads of this sort, I very honestly think that DFI NF4 and OCing voltage hungry BH-6/BH-5/UTT is just not the game everybody should play.
DFI might have done this one mistake of putting board like that on the market, so EVERYONE can have it. Before, volt mods needed to be done to boards, which made hardcore/high voltage OCing not accessible to all. Now, DFI might have a lot of trouble, because of folks popping up with all sort of hardware deaths that they attribute to boards and not errors they make.
DFI NF4 is a very specific mainboard. It needs special care and fine tunning, to get it work as it's supposed to. Switching between vdimm supply is one of the crucial points, where users need to be careful.
Also, I might be wrong here, but I start to think that Winbond UTT based sticks are a gamble and can attribute to those failures that some of you might be experiencing. As I had very similar symptoms with OCZ VX PC3200 months ago on MSI Neo2. I ended up going thru 2 RMAs and at the end decided to give up on UTT. Don't you guys think that it's pretty weird that vast majority of having those problems use UTT-based sticks? Apart from eclypse, in which case I honestly think that feeding TCCD 3.2v might not be such a great idea for everyday use. Maybe he was just a guinea pig, testing limits of TCCD and found it :(.
I'm running my 2x256MB Mushkin LvL II on a daily basis at high volts of 3.7v, 5v supply. Benching at up to 3.9v with no problems whatsoever.
bachus_anonym, don't you think that if it is true that the voltage spikes to 5V during startup it really has nothign to do with user error, and it is a valid complaint? Besides, there a lot of people with this problems and not all of them are noobs.
You do not know if that is taking place at all. Without at least a multimeter (which many of DFI users do not seem to own) or better a scope there is no way of investigating that.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
I highly doubt that this is the reason (voltage spikes) is the reason behind all the trouble you guys are having.
@George (Hipro5)
It would be great if you could take a look at it in your test-lab with a scope and see if that is the case. That could clear things up a bit ;)
One think to add too though is that I've seen some dead Rams BUT their chips where OK......Their SPD chips were dead......After changing the SPD chip with another one, Ram was working perfect again.......Maybe the SPD chip can't handle the spikes or so and it's just give up ;)
I'll talk to esdee to bring me his mobo on Monday morning so as to see what's going on......I'll keep you posted..... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
True, I haven't done it but one of the other members here claimed that he has and he has seen it spike. Given the number of people that are coming up with this problem, don't you think that it at least deserves looking into by DFI? And IF it turns out true, don't you agree that it has really nothing to do with user error?Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
Yeah that would be awesome if some one with knowledge and equipment could do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
What's important is that when switching from 3.3v to 5v or the other way around, user should LOAD DEFAULTS first, so vdimm goes down to say 2.8-2.9v. Then go to BIOS and shut it down there, drain caps with POWER BUTTON. Then Clear CMOS, unplug everything, including power plug, switch the jumper.
@hovo73
I've already asked that guy where he saw that 5.2v spike but did not get any answer so far in this thread.
EDIT: Also, if one is REALLY paranoic about it, he can even first start-up after switching over, boot up without any memory sticks. Then shut it down, at put sticks in :D
According to DFI-Street when changing J17 position you should do the following:
Changing from 3.3V to 5V:
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/show...7&postcount=17
- Go into Genie BIOS and manually set your vcore (cpu voltage). It MUST NOT be on Auto!
- Save & exit. Return to bios upon reboot.
- Verify that your vcore is correctly set. Save, exit, shut the rig down.
- On the motherboard, move the 4v jumper in the upper corner of the board to the proper position (see manual/cd-manual/online manual for pics).
- Boot up, go into Genie BIOS, do DRAM Voltage. Should now be
Changing from 5V to 3.3V:
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/show...05&postcount=4
- boot into bios and lower vdimm to below 3.3v
- save & exit
- boot up and see that the voltage 'stuck' to the new setting correctly.
- save & exit and shut down
- change vdimm jumper back to 3.2v position.
- boot up and make sure vdimm is where it is supposed to be in the bios.
- keep in mind that sometimes the voltages for vdimm or cpu 'stick'. Its very random and rare but I have witnessed it myself. Its a quirk. Clear CMOS and the voltages will return to their defaults and can be reset.
You can shutdown the PC when you are in BIOS? That is something that interested me, because it is recomended to do it aimmediately after flash and I have a thing about shuting down the PC while it is posting. Is it safe to shut down the PC (using the switch) when it is in BIOS?Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
If you flash from Windows, you can shut it down there, after Winflash asks you to REBOOT or not.
If from DOS prompt, then depending on how the awdflash is configured in .bat file (it can RESET automatically or not) you can shut it down there, after it's done flashing (if it doesnt reset itself).
I don't think there is a problem with shutting down while in BIOS.
I agree, flashing the bios in any state other than 'optimised defaults' is just an additional risk. That includes having the jumper on the high voltage side. It also seems more of an issue with certain rams. I'm glad dfi made this board. With my fat hands I don't solder all that great.
hipro5 is going to be on it. think we might have a fix comming. woot Iv seen 3-4 total MB vmods from him. if i gota cut a trace, ill do it lol.
thanks for finally lookiing into this hipro5
Peace Nugz
Well, that's really interesting, because I already thought about getting that DFI board some time soon, but now, I'm really not sure. Although I doubt that it really is a voltae spike that is causing this problem. First I think DFI did really thorough testing and I also think that their engineer team knows how to aviod this kind of problems from the start.
Do you remember the Shuttle AN50R and all the dead CPUs it caused when VDimm was modded? Well, on this board, there were voltage spikes for sure, but they only killed the CPUs, but I can't remember having heard of dead RAM. That's what makes me wonder.
Hipro's theory of SPD-ROM chips dying sounds more reasonable to me. I had a look at my UTT sticks today and found out that the SPD-ROM chip used on mine ("TMC 24A02") is rated 2.5~5.5V. So on mine, there should theoretically be no problem with high Vdimm.
Just for fun:
Could anyone with "dead" RAM post the info printed on his SPD-ROM chip? Perhaps this way, we could find out quite fast, if the theory is any good. :)
Bachus, your eloquent comment about NF-4 needing upmost care, I partially agree. However, you keep skipping over the problem of memory dying NOT DUE TO BIOS FLASH, but just act of booting issue from cold start after about 3 weeks of 24x21 use with case not even bothered to be opened (no bios change, no jumper change or what not) and to find out your memory is dead, doesn't fall under what you are referring to. In fact more than half of us who has complained the issue didn't change anything from fine working daily setup we aspire to other than just starting the machine from cold. Now, if you don't call that an issue, oh well....Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
PS) I know this is getting personal but we had similar kind of discussion before on DFI nf4 issue Bachus, when I didn't get working product first shot at all. YOU BLAMED my ignorance and my ineptitude... (without knowing even much of me at all). And yes the problem is well reknown (now) 3 led syndrome. Just because yours works and works well doesn't mean others with similar experience level (or even more) than you on building and overclocking system SHOULD have no issue. This holier than thou attitude is really starting to get on me.
I should have elaborated. I had my machine running for 3 weeks straight with 3.4 or 3.5v VDIMM and when I had to reboot for windows update, I thought clean cold reboot would be nice after such long marathon session on my comp. It just didn't boot up after that. From perfectly working sticks to 4 dead sticks (yes all 4) in matter of few seconds it took to boot from cold? ALL 4 STICKS dying together? Doubt it is my memory's getting too much juice alone... its gotta be something else. (If it was one stick or so, I would have thought it is memory but oh well) Now considering how people sticking to 3.2v or less without 5v jumper on, doesn't have this issue, it becomes quite obvious to me that this is with 5v jumper issue of some sort. That voltage spike idea with VSB might be something to look into, for now, I just don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by wtz54321
That BIOS talk was a result of me being side-tracked a bit :)
I will bet $5 :D that it's the issue with memory sticks, not mainboard itself. Because, as I said above, I had two kits of OCZ VX sticks that died same way, but on the Neo2 not DFI. One set I got, was good for about 2 weeks, then I stick got fubared. I checked it on Neo2 and NF2... One stick was memtesting fine when the other was giving flood of errors all the way down to stock. Second kit I got, was same story... Good for three weeks, died same way...
I really think that UTT mems is what causing the trouble. As most of you have that problem with that type om sticks.
EDIT: I admit, this i pretty weird though...
Guys my BH5 ran 280 FSB 2-2-2-5 for a year plus at 3.7 / 3.8 in both DFI UT250 and MSI NEO 2. I also ran one set of my VX at 3.6 2-2-2-5 in the same mob's at 260 FSB with 3.6 volts. Put them in the DFI 5volt rail jumper setting and both sets Dead within 3 weeks. The board is at fault not the memory this BH5 would run stable at 4 volts!! and 3.8 was 24/7!!
I will post the codes on my SPD chips when I get home from work Sunday. Then that theory can be checked.
Damn i used 3.24v on my GIG of G-Skill PC4400 LE TCCD ram just to get 270 HTT stable. Am i over juicing it? Sure i thought this ram would run at a lower Vdimm of 3v at a high 270+ FSB. Is this not the norm?
Ive been running me VX 24/7 @3,5volt at 250-260 from day 1 (januari) without any problems (cold boot etc) so far. Im using the 5v line.
OK i know i already posted this thaugh in another thread, but why did DFI even implement the 3.3 / 5 switch why not just run the vdimm of the 5v like some epoxes (im not a epox fanboy)
if it was for the inexperianced, they coould have hidden the high vdimm options through bios or just make us flash modded bioses with unhidden features..........
I just experience weird things with the tmsp pc3500 now....
unable to work after memtest #5 90 loops and consistent freeze with #8.
after tonnes of errors with #5 after 90 loops...it can't even pass #2.
it can't be the MB since UTT CH-5 working with ease but this BH-5 ram just behave very differently with others i had tested so far....after memtest die...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=63314
Put it in the Orange Slots!
Because they saw alot of people modding their boards to be able to run higher voltages through the rams. Only having 2.8v to 3.2v or on some 3.3v did not cut it, and the increased performance must have been worth the risk of a mother board to many. They saw a need for some and accomodated. It states in the book that running the high side is risky, and I would not like to go back to cutting traces or soldering. I also know how it is to loose hardware that cost good money and that you develope a "likeing" to as well and I empathize. I think it may be a good idea to start a list of data from people who have had this happen and include Rev. # from the boards, maybe place of purchase, type of rams - both by manuf and chip type. I think it is early and not a good thing to blame someone for giving what is asked for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Millyons
Naw you didn't get what i mean, i ment why not just run the vdimm of the 5v rail and have the options up to 4v for vdimm, i didn't say anything about lowering vdimm
I acknowledge what you were trying to say. It could have been related to the heat issue running low volts from the 5v line. There may not have been another way to do it than the way they did and still be affordable.
The DFI Lanparty 'B' and DFI Infinity nForce2 motherboards both fed VDIMM off of the +5VDC rail.... I think he's wondering why DFI didn't do the same for the nForce4 boards. The NF2 DFI boards didn't have any VDIMM related or VDIMM voltage regulator heat issues of any kind... what prevented DFI from implementing an identical setup on the nForce4 boards?
BIOS options allowed for up to 3.3V with these older motherboards. On my old DFI Infinity NF2, I ran my VDIMM at 3.6V cleanly with a stock +3.3VDC rail, after a simple VDIMM voltage regulator Potentiometer mod.
The UTT/BH-5 memory death at around ~3.2V is peculiar and troubling. I'll be sticking to the yellow slots and the newer BIOSes that work well with them after reading this :(.
I can't address the question in your first paragraph. I don't know. It seemed simple enough and worked well, up to 3.3v. I did the vdimm mod as well. My rams are in the yellow slots and I'm using the 510-2 bios. That combo is working really good atm.
It was rhetorical, don't sweat it :)
Yeah, the 510 BIOSes apparantly work quite well with high voltage memory and the Yellow slots that aren't causing RAM death. For now everyone's best bet is to just use the different slots and a newer BIOS.
I've got no clue why RAM is dying. Personally, I'm of the suspicion that Bacchus is correct... UTT is a gamble. The BH-5 that's dying seems to have been overvolted a very great deal, 3.8V for day-to-day use for example is perhaps too much even with excellent active cooling. I personally would not run my BH-5 past ~3.6V for day-to-day use, unless it saw large stable gains from further overvolts (which some RAM apparantly does!).
As for checking DIMM #2 on these boards for power spikes...
Checking that DIMM slot for a VDIMM voltage spike at boot is extremely simple, there's no need for anyone to wait for hipro5 to crack out his likely un-faulty board. You also really do need to check something like this on a board that is confirmed to have the RAM killing issue in the first place, or the readout is meaningless to the situation.
I don't have DFI but im really interested in this thread, so someone who has it can check the exact voltage each slot is getting at these points.........this is for all DDR mobos
I had one and I sold it......I'll ask for esdee to bring his......So I just DON'T own a "likely un-faulty board" as you say.... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by felinusz
just like to share....
my ram die in yellow slot after 90 loops of #5 in memtest. Die is in a sense that it can't be use anymore as it won't pass memtest in default anymore.
it were freezing in #8 memtest previously so i decide that maybe it need burn in to pass it...afterall its new bh-5...and all this happens on 200Mhz 2-2-2-5 only.
rma it and get second pair...
still unable to pass #8 on similar senario...this time no #5 loop anymore...
swtich to orange slot after some advice but still un-stable under cl2-2-2-5 no matter what i do...till i disable bank interleave then it can scale up to 235Mhz.
after some kind soul advice again....really great thanks...
I run this thing w CL1.5-2-2-2 w bank interleave....200Mhz fail again....but it works from 220Mhz and above...now I am at 235Mhz w 3.2v burning in...
so this utt chip might be the problem in the end....just my 0.02c..
I have this problem too. The stick closest to the processor is the one that misbehaves for me.
If there is a voltage spike to 5V on power up onto the DIMMs, this could definately cause strange behaviour. Spikes are nasty things, depending on the rise time and the duration of the spike, it can cause latching of the 'FETs/transistors' which make up the ram - caught in the wrong state could even be damaging. It is definately not something that someone can say 'is unlikely to be the problem'. The spike should not be there, period. If it is, it's bad hardware design, period.
If someone could direct me to an easily accessable point to measure (don't give me a VDimm pin, way to small to get your probe onto), I have access to a scope and a multimeter.
Ive had the same problems but not on the dfi nf4. Mine was on the dfi ut 250gb. Killed 4 sticks of twinmos 3200 utt and 2 sticks of old school ch-5. I believe it was the spd chips also cause letting it sit for a day or 2 would let it run again but not for long. I could run memtest on them for days with no errors but as soon as I restarted they would boot till I pulled them out and let them sit for days in again. Now I have some newer twinmos utt and they have the larger spd chip in a different spot and havent had a problem with them. Maybe we should all check our dead sticks and see if they have the larger spd chip or the smaller one.
Just to warn, exactly this procedure (clear cmos + simultaneous vdimm jumper switching) yielded me 2 dead ram slots on my DFI SLI-D that were closest to the cpu (one orange, one yellow). With dead I mean that the board didn't POST when memory was in any of these slots (tested both with TCCD as well as UTT), while the other 2 slots still worked fine at least to 270+ htt. So I personally wouldn't do these 2 things simultaneously anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzSnoal
Its quite easy but you can't do it if you have heatspreaders on ram then its hard.........
Take a look on the circle in this photo.....On your DFI there IS NOT a capacitor in that place......You can measure there the Vdimm....... ;)
http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/T...LI_D_2_jpg.jpg
WTH. they took one of them off to save a little cash? omg
that is a cap that helps reduce voltage spiks. aint it hipro5?
Im missing that cap Rev. AA0
Peace Nugz
All companies do the same thing.... ;) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nugz
Hell i have the same revision board and i 2 dont have that cap! Whats it for?
Guys......Take it easy.......I HAVE soldered that cap........ :D
It's also for Vdimm.... ;)
i got some of those i on a Few (2) IC7's i have here and P4P800 and a P4C800 thats dead.
tell us if it helps with the startup voltage spikes.
Like i said. " hipro5 is on it, we might have a fix soon" ;)
Maybe a hard mod. void the warenty. But i dout if it's the way they made the board they be telling everyone. " send your board to us and we'll fix it" <--- :lol: thats alot of cash for DFI to be going back and fix'n there problems.
So yeah. If it's going to be a hardmod to fix it. then so be it.
Thanks hipro5 for looking into this.
Peace Nugz
Has anyone tried contacting DFI about this, aside from the person who started a thread on the DFI forums (the thread that was locked)?
I just PMed RGone on DFI-Street about this thread, hopefully he'll come over here :).
heh nice.. Notice any differences with the extra cap?Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
yea, should we add them in?. Also FYI Smart Guardian is off on my Vdimm by .06...which is a pretty fair amount.
Also is it suggested that i use 510 BIOS and yellow slots for OCZ VX?
Guys, I believe I have found out why we are having a cold boot problem.
I posted this over at OCZ forums:
http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/sho...9515#post89515
Working scenario:
Basically when you shutdown your PC and power it up again, Vdimm moves up from 0V to the voltage you set it to in the BIOS. (Measured with a multimeter).
Failing scenario:
HOWEVER, if you pull out the power plug, reinsert the plug, DO NOT switch on the PC yet. Hmmm, what is that 2.7V doing on Vdimm?? Switch on the PC hmmmm, still 2.7V? And of course you now have the cold boot problem. The Vdimm never reaches the value I have set in the BIOS.
Hi "felinusz man. Got your PM man and the link and came and read the whole thread from beginning to the end and the few posts past yours here.
I am going to say exactly what I know and no more about this situation and will temper my personal biases against memory that requires so much voltage anyway. That said.
I would go and download this bios right here as it is the one going very fast to "official" status even as I type from its' beta status.
http://oskarwu.myweb.hinet.net/dfi/b...s/N4D510-2.zip
Download the bios. Throttle back and set 200 defaults and get off the 5.0 jumper to flash.
How to get on and off the +5V jumper? Pretty precise post by hovo73 to get on and off procedure rounded up.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=113
Or in essence: 'copied from hovo73 post #113.
Ok back on the 3.2Volts settings and Jp17 is on the 3.3Volt rail for voltage supply and now flash the bios above and use ONLY the Yellow slots.Quote:
According to DFI-Street when changing J17 position you should do the following:
Changing from 3.3V to 5V:
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/sho...67&postcount=17
1. Go into Genie BIOS and manually set your vcore (cpu voltage). It MUST NOT be on Auto!
2. Save & exit. Return to bios upon reboot.
3. Verify that your vcore is correctly set. Save, exit, shut the rig down.
4. On the motherboard, move the 4v jumper in the upper corner of the board to the proper position (see manual/cd-manual/online manual for pics).
Boot up, go into Genie BIOS, do DRAM Voltage. Should now be adjustable above 3.2V.
Changing from 5V to 3.3V:
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/sho...305&postcount=4
1. boot into bios and lower vdimm to below 3.3v
save & exit
2. boot up and see that the voltage 'stuck' to the new setting correctly.
save & exit and shut down
3. change vdimm jumper back to 3.2v position.
4. boot up and make sure vdimm is where it is supposed to be in the bios.
keep in mind that sometimes the voltages for vdimm or cpu 'stick'. Its very random and rare but I have witnessed it myself. Its a quirk. Clear CMOS and the voltages will return to their defaults and can be reset.
Note: here! Do not really care about how fast you can now go. If there is going to be any testing done and it is> you need to quit feeding the dang memory into a slot you think is killing memory until such time as testing is done. That is all I can say about that for you who have seemed dead memory.
Now that should get most back into safe territory even if they go back to the 5V mode according the procedure for change as shown above.
Now I have not seen this but have a tester that has had recording Oscope on the Vdimm and has not seen a spike as of yet. No he has not tested 15 motherboards but he still has seen no voltage spike.
Oskar is aware of this thread and is looking deeply at the bios as I type this. I am now awaiting UTT as I have NONE ; mainly because I don't really like it but nevertheless am getting some for testing. When UTT arrives will setup and get running with Bios 510-2 as linked above and put sticks in Yellow slots (1 and 3) and start to running at High Volts and at as much FSB as it will do and let run prime or some other proggie to load the system and see if any problems surface from Yellow slots (1 and 3) and also to be able to test any beta bios Oskar hands me for test against his findings.
Now other than that I have no frikken clue and will not speculate. I have said all I know and will say. No guessing and jumping to any mind blast I may have come to me.
Thank you, "felinusz" for giving me heads up man. Did what I said I would do when you asked.
RGone...
Quote:
Originally Posted by felinusz
What value should the cap have ?Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
1000-2200uFQuote:
Originally Posted by Ubermann
6.3v+ if i dont see wrong.....
As for the cap, the ESR rating is also important - the best is to get caps that match those already on the board, or replace all of them. The problem is that if you put in any old cap, it may become more stressed than the others if it's ESR rating is lower than the others. BTW, a lower ESR is better for supply purposes. ESR = Equivalent Series Resistance.
Anyway, that's not why I posted here. I posted an important finding - it came at the end of page 6, then RGones post came so I don't think anyone has seen it. In a nutshell, Vdimm is not being set correctly on power up.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...4&page=6&pp=25
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclypse
He,he,.......I just ALWAYS solder missing parts on a mobo before I firstly power it up so I don't know how it reacted before the cap........ :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
hipro5 ill bring the board with my new CPU :D, time to have some fun again
You woke up?..... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by esdee
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
heh ok.. Where are you buying these caps from?
I see a couple of theories here:
voltage is killing the SPD chip
OR
voltage spike on BOOT is killing the ram
I have seen the theory on the SPD chips also from Uwackme on dfi-street
Ozsnoal I think is onto a different cold boot problem that I am not sure is related. On the other hand maybe it is related to unusual voltages (high or low) on boot-up.
I am watching this thread because I am running my VX on the 5V rail 24/7 @ 3.3V crunching BOINC (Climate Prediction) and don't want dead ram.
Maybe I'll do the 3.3V sense mod on my PSU and go back to the 3.3V rail after reading this thread.....................................
haven't slept yet :D i have to recover from last weekend :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
ill call you in the morning ;)
FYIs...Quote:
Originally Posted by OzSnoal
The voltage on Vmem when you remove AC and then re-apply is caused by the way one of the ICs initializes at power up (along with how it's used). The actual value depends on your settings (it can come up as low as 2.45V).
The proper Vmem setting isn't set until after the BIOS is thru the POST sequence (when only 1 light remains lit)... so if your memory won't pass the "detect RAM" stage at the lower voltage, you get the "cold boot" problem.
It is a very easy fix in the BIOS (hey Oscar!)... the Vmem/Vcore configuration IC needs to be initialized before the detection phases of POST.
Peace :toast:
RGone, thanks a lot for checking this out dude!Quote:
RGone
Now other than that I have no frikken clue and will not speculate. I have said all I know and will say. No guessing and jumping to any mind blast I may have come to me.
Thank you, "felinusz" for giving me heads up man. Did what I said I would do when you asked.
Your take on this is appreciated, it's great to see good company representation like yours! :toast:
nice to see they responded to u but not me :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by felinusz
I know all of this is being looked into by DFI. They are a good bunch. Hang in guys!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
Quote:
Originally Posted by celemine1Gig
I still have my old bad TMII AA4T (CH-5/UTT) sticks and I have just received new TMSP 1A4T (BH-5/UTT) sticks so I decided to compare their SPD ROM Chips. As you can see they are different, both in sizes and in location. I hope this means something ... something good :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroomalistic
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...chmentid=31082
the OCZ value vx series got bigger spd rom chip base on the picture in ocz website
http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/...3200WV3_DC.jpg
So .... does OCZ Gold VX series got smaller or bigger SPD ROM chip?
Don't know about VX, but I have OCZ EL Gold BH-5 and that one looks like it has the large kind in the same location.Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
This is how OCZ VX PC3200 on BrainPower B6U808 looked like when I bought it last year and took heatspreaders off - which now we know are Winbond UTT-CH5 ;) I do not have those sticks anymore, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
Just to give you some food for your brains :D
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=31087&stc=1
EDIT: It looks like UTT-CH5 based modules use smaller SPD chip compared to UTT-BH5 based sticks...
someone in dfi street measure the vdimm voltage while booting he said there is no spikes
VDimm Control theory
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12342
Small SPD ROM chip :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
thanks ;)
You think it would matter if i put one with higher value ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastviking
Reacts slower but should make even more stable volt right ?
2200uF wil work fine and 16v also. higher than 2200uF is a not good(maybe it works but it will ract to slow to gain anything).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubermann
@EMC2
Sure, doesn't mean that I agree with their HW design. It is simple enough to have circuitry that keeps components in states you want them to be in - without having software to actually do it. Obviously the shutdown code does it - there is 0V on Vdimm. There should just as well be 0V on Vdimm when you plug the AC cord in the back of the machine.Quote:
The voltage on Vmem when you remove AC and then re-apply is caused by the way one of the ICs initializes at power up (along with how it's used). The actual value depends on your settings (it can come up as low as 2.45V).
Anwyay, I hope DFI look into turning the Vdimm voltage up to the CMOS specified value before trying to detect the RAM.
What makes you think there is an SPD chip issue? Size make a diffrence? ;) The whole idea here is that somenthing is killing RAM , not SPD chips.Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
Anyway how are you tictac?
:nono: you got me wrong.. i didnt said it is SPD ROM chip issue...Quote:
Originally Posted by andyOCZ
me... just looking for some info on VX series memory
i have no idea what causing this issue... so no comment ;)
I didn't read anything about spikes on the link you gave tictac! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
I think he was referring to
A post made by RGone at the top of page 6
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...4&page=7&pp=25
Quote:
Now I have not seen this but have a tester that has had recording Oscope on the Vdimm and has not seen a spike as of yet. No he has not tested 15 motherboards but he still has seen no voltage spike.
The link tictac gave was what I found on how Vdimm was managed, especially on a AC power removed startup. In my testing I also did not see a Vdimm surge (albeit with a multimeter which is not good at detecting spikes) above the setting I had in CMOS.
The board may be the reason my Patriot died, though it has tccd and I never used the 5v jumper. Got them back from rma and don't think I'll use them in the board.
http://home.comcast.net/~kindnuguz/SMP.jpg
thats the VX thats got problems now.
Got the VX in Feb. and just got the Gold few weeks ago.
Peace Nugz
sorry... i'm trying to refer to this postQuote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
any spikes on your test? :hehe:Quote:
(3) Measurement at power on: Does not overshoot 3.6V
Well, I was using a multimeter - not the best equipment to see spikes with.
However, with the multimeter, the voltage did not exceed that which I had set it to in the CMOS. So, the answer is no, I did not see a voltage overshoot.
temp lack of CPU, we'll test propably next week :(Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
Hi, Just bought a 3000+ and a DFI-ULTRA D.
Now I got a 20pin psu from lcpower (550W) and 2*256MB BH5.
Can I use the 5V jumper to put 3.5V on my ram and is it safe and what ram slots do you guys suggest because this topic scares the f*ck out of me :stick: ?
How do I attach the 20pin to a 24pin mobo (anyone got a pic)
Hi, do yourself a favor and get a 24 pin PSU. I have had customers damage components trying to use the 5v jumper with a 20 pin. This board uses all 24 pins and is not like the other boards on the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by 187(V)URD@
You will need a good quality 24 pin PSU of at least 480w.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyOCZ
Naaaa OCZ only trying to sell more psu´s with 24 pin trick :D "Joke" . My Antec 550 w work with 20 to 24 pin modd and +3.3v @3.74v+ and 3.6vdimm+(no use of +5 line to vdimm). but its not recomended :D. but anyway try to not use +5 line to vdimm. Without risk to kill something its not fun :D
Haha, we don't make a 480w PSU. If I said 520w or 600w, then I might be trying to sell ours. The key is 24 pins to feed the board and using a GOOD QUALITY PSU, 'cause most are junk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastviking
I have to agree, as I have verified OzSnoal's testing. No spike's seen on my Fluke DMM. It's pretty darn quick, so I would have seen it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OzSnoal
Andy, why the 480W minimum requirment? Don't you think it is a little over the top? I mean are you saying that OCZ Powerstream 420 is not recomended with this board? Thanks.
I just checked with enginnering and the SPD is definately not the problem. They grabbed 10 dead VX kits and all had intact SPD info. I know you all want to blame the memory, but that isn't the problem. Keep looking. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
Hi, the 420w Powerstream works fine for non-SLI 6800 rigs. I say 480w beacuse that's what DFI recommends. Remember our Powerstreams are server class and are MUCH beefier than the typical PSU of the same watt rating. Many 500w models are more like a bad 350w unit. If they weigh nothing,they are nothing. Hehe
IMO that bogus 480W rating is just DFI trying to cover their ass from folks that buy $25 600w power supplies with 18A on the 12v rail.
I have the PS420, and it's more than enough to cover my board, and the menial current draw I am asking it to supply.
1 hdd (pata)
1 dvd
1 vcard(X800l)
1 stock hsf
1 3000+
No extraneous fans or lights.....
Way more than enough power for the DFI board no matter what they say...
If it ain't enough then there is a serious flaw in the chipset, and/or manufacturers board/implementation.
BTW OzSnoal did you happen to check if there was voltage on the pci or PCI-E slots when shutoff as well?
thx
m
Most - if not all - of the DMM out there, uses the ICL7107 IC for showing the Volts......This IC it is been builted by the manufacturer in a way to measure 3 times per second the Voltages........A spike could be only some mS and the DMM just can not read it.....An osciloscope would be a better idea in this case..... ;) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by andyOCZ
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
DMM are way to slow to try and catch a spike that quick....
You have to be lucky to catch it.
hmm now that this discussion is going on (cold boot, etc.).. on every cold boot (yes its consistent now) i have noticed for me, with the ac plugged in for 12+ hours, but PSU switch is off, power up, signal to monitor, it POSTS, then black screen and hangs. power off (immediate power off, it doesnt need a pause for 4 seconds), then power back up, POSTS again, then loads OS. every subsequent power off/on is perfect (POST to load OS).
this is with classic BH in yellow on SD core.
Pershoot the switch at the back of the PSU is the same as removing AC. So, your ram first starts at the 2.7V, resulting in black screen, BUT the BIOS code would have reached the point when it switches over to the CMOS defined VDimm voltage. So, the next restart will give your RAM the CMOS Vdimm and you start all fine and dandy. My theory.
Nope. Just to be clear, the voltage is there only when I remove the AC and reinsert it, a normal shutdown does not have voltage on Vdimm. I think you said it - it must be coming from 5VSB. Maybe it has got something to do with that CMOS setting, unsure of wording 'restart machine on power failure', another guess.Quote:
BTW OzSnoal did you happen to check if there was voltage on the pci or PCI-E slots when shutoff as well?
The power being appied to the RAM when the board is not powered is provided by a STR (suspend to RAM) function of the voltage regulator. The NF7 series of boards also have this feature.
From experience of measuring Vdimm whilst booting, the voltage 'spike' will last long enough for it to be measured with a DMM - it can last for up to 2 seconds, and possibly longer. This might be different with the DFI NF4 board tho.
Has anyone tried measuring the voltage 'spike' with no RAM in the board? Doing that might stop the BIOS from loading and thus give the voltage before the BIOS has time to set the Vdimm.
There might also only be certain conditions where the voltage will spike such as on cold boots when the AC power has just been appiled, cold boots when the board has been powered off using the power button, or warm boots after a reset. Using a 20 pin PSU might also have some effect in producing the spike as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyOCZ
In no shape or form was i blame'n the mem. Just the other page had VX with a differnt SPD chip. and hey i just wanted to take a shot for ya guys of both.
Just trying to help out too :) heheh
its the mother board for sure.Im not RMA'n my stuff till i gets fixed hehe
Peace Nugz
So it is not safe to even keep the computer in standby mode to prevent this issue until a fix has been found?Quote:
Originally Posted by persivore
It should be ok to leave it in standby. Its been stated earlier in the thread that the board only gives 2.7v when in standby, so it should be safe :)Quote:
Originally Posted by P_1