Massive Water Chiller

I lined the top of the shroud with insulation tape and the table top as well. Once I clamp down the fans it will provide a nice air seal. I'll have to test to see if insulation will be required on the shroud. It may not be.

I initially tested the system for pressure differential. It didn't work out so well at first. The compressor check valve wasn't allowing for pressure differential to hold. However, after vacuuming, I applied pressure between cycles and two clicks. One was the solenoid valve, and the other must have been the internal compressor valve. The inline check valve clicked separately. I heard it. At that point, I was able to pressurize to 300 PSI on the high side and the low side held at lower pressure. No bleed over! :)

I protected myself (probably not well) behind a double thick sheet of MDF LOL. I wouldn't recommend it. I had my face shield on though. The nitrogen regulator started leaking at 300, so I couldn't go further.

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That's it so far. :)

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Looks good Stew !! :clap:

Thanks. Its getting close to being done, too! The chiller at least.... the chest is another story.. hehe.

All I have yet to do with the chiller is the water piping, insulation, and then the attachment of the controls and wiring. Hopefully my valve comes in this week and I can finally finish the refrigerant side.

The chest will be built after I finish testing the unit. I have to make certain determinations before I build it based on the type of internal conditions that the unit will exhibit given circulating air temperature and exhaust from the chest. Fun stuff. :)

Great project Stew!!
Please correct me if I'm wrong and not seeing things correctly, but I don't think your receiver will work laying down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by runmc

Great project Stew!!
Please correct me if I'm wrong and not seeing things correctly, but I don't think your receiver will work laying down.

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Not to worry MC.. :) Refrigeration Research Model 1947

I bought it specifically for its use as a horizontal receiver. You are seeing correctly.

Good to hear Stew.

I had one of those ... oh crap moments after seeing Ron's post :rofl:

The all to familiar record scratching sound echoing in your head? hehehehe

Yeah, while I was designing this thing, I was having difficulty figuring out how to fit certain things in with the way I was designing the system. The vertical receivers weren't going to fit the way I wanted, and I found that gem largely by chance while browsing URI's catalog.

This week while I have time between now and the weekend, I'm going to be designing the chest. I'll post some updates later on that progress and the overall mechanics of the design.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stewie007

Not to worry MC.. :) Refrigeration Research Model 1947

I bought it specifically for its use as a horizontal receiver. You are seeing correctly.

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hehehe - very good :up:
Live and learn. I didn't know there was such an animal. :rolleyes:

Tomorrow I'm playing golf, so I did only a little bit today. I ran out of gas, and it figures.... I wanted to at least close up the refrigeration system. Oh well.

Got my coils, although the 10W coil just won't do for the smaller solenoid; need 22W. The 10W coil is the one pictured below. It just fits in there nicely.

I placed the pressure controls to the side of the compressor, and it fits well. The problem is, I can't find a good place to put the rest of the controls. I wanted to contain them in electrical boxes, but I'm not sure they'll fit. I don't really have a proper enclosure, unfortunately. Maybe I'll find one. The pressure controls fit into place, but barely. Its pretty dang close to the filter drier, but far enough away that they won't touch. In the photo, it looks like they're touching, but its just the angle. They aren't.


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I may wind up redesigning that oil line. I am thinking that I will have to install a riser before the pressure sensor. Looking that over and I may wind up blowing oil into the sensor line.

What I will do is use a tee with the center connection aligned vertically. Flow will be directed through the horizontal axis and the vertical line will be reduced to quarter inch tubing to further minimize migration.

I'm kind of glad that I ran out of gas...

Wow,

This is massive! Can't wait to see the final results!

Thanks. Before I utilize it, I will be extensively testing the system. I am considering converting the suction line to a flare system in case I have to change out components. I will want to test it extensively to make sure that's necessary.

I could post other pictures, but I figured one was enough. I've redesigned the chest to accommodate a different type of intake and exhaust. Instead of the previous design I have a slot on either side of the top. Some of the air inside will be recycled, but these will provide enough for intake and exhaust.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9589/8f0d.jpg

Well, I got the refrigerant loop mostly finished. The last touches will be the installation of the gauges, however its pretty much done with respect to piping. (Water lines in progress).

I am unfortunately not able to test the operation of the solenoid valve that controls the oil outlet. The rotor inside the compressor is obviously in a neutral position that doesn't cut off the bleed, because I can't pressurize the high side or low side without getting bleed through. The valve functions properly, and I did not overheat it. So I don't think its the valve that is malfunctioning. I also ensured that I installed it properly; which I did.

The first image is that of the newly designed oil line. It discharges the oil into a "U" return line that follows an elbow toward the suction line instead of previously. This way the oil will follow a more natural path. The tee branch faces up and has a 3/8 to 1/4" bushing that connects the system to the pressure sensor. This will better prevent oil from blowing into the sensor capillary line. The next images show the newly designed return line and pressure sensor connection.

I did some work on the chill reservoir; however I am a bit unhappy with the results given the difficulty of aligning the pump inlet line. I'm a bit mad that it went all :banana::banana::banana::banana:eyed and now the reservoir doesn't fit into place as well as I wanted. It fits, but barely. No biggie I guess, I can work around it, but I didn't get any real pics of that. I did find a good location to install the relay box. Its pretty close to the reservoir, but I can water proof that pretty easily. The capacitors are going to be the issue. I don't have a good spot for them as of yet. Pretty soon I'll be wiring the system up. ;)

The last pictures show how its shaping up. So far its looking pretty good. Its heavy though, hehe.... Its going to be a tough one getting it into place. I bet it'll weight 300 lbs all together with the chest. There just isn't a way given the design of the chest to avoid that. That said, I'm going to build the chest out of white pine; a rather light weight and warp resistant wood (unlike yellow pine). It will probably weight about 120-130lbs itself. I know, that's pretty heavy, but most of that weight comes from the base boards and the top. When you start talking about a 60" x ~30" chest, it adds up. The base also adds a big portion of that. Its nothing compared to what it would be if it was oak.. Weight is also estimated based on known density and mass.

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HAHAHA Stew, 300 lbs !!!!

That is a beast for sure ! :)

I bet I'm over-estimating.... but those heat exchangers are heavy for sure... hehe. The water alone will probably be about 60 pounds all together, so it makes up a big chunk of it.

Rotory vane compressors are not possitive sealing, you will never stop bleed over from them, they use oil film as the final seal mechanism.

I am sure when you fire the system up it will all run exactly as you had designed it to.

Well, the problem that presents is that pump down will be unsuccessful.

Do you think that will be a problem?

I've done a bit of research. As it turns out, a check valve must be installed on the suction line for pump down cycles...

Should have looked at Tecumseh's library hehehe

this does indeed tend to help with designing a complex system! any rotory piston compressor will rely on oil for the main seal and only make an effective pump while running and quickly equalize on shut down, hence their prevalence as an air con compressor.

Thing is I did a lot of research and discussed it quite a lot. Much of the system tweaking will be left to the testing phase, but some things are just easily missed I guess.

That's pretty much the main reason I try to put everything out there so that others might have an idea of what the problem is. I hadn't even considered a check valve for pump down on the suction side. I'll stop by united and get the second one this week when I get a chance.

Great job so far :up:

Wait, why do you need a check valve?

To stop the bleed through the compressor from causing excessive short cycling. It would trip the low pressure sensor that controls the compressor.

All so a bit late to point out but the sensors will not at all be effected by oil being pushed into them, and at a 90 degree angle little oil would be pushed into the sensing tube, often the line will be brazed right into the pipe with no concern for any sort of riser. with that said it is all ways wise to put a stub tube in for futur repairibility.

Well, the original design was more the issue. I had it blowing straight through a tee with the sensor on the opposite end and the suction port on the branch.

When I re-thought it.... I over-thought it. But either way it works... hehe.

Little bit of work tonight. What I really wanted to do was get the check valve in place so that I could start tomorrow at the same point that I left the previous week. I had a dilemma though. The valve was too long to simply splice into place. I had to sweat a tube and braze the stub of the valve into the elbow. That meant I had to use phoscopper. Lucky for me the new monster torch tip made for easy heating and no issues arose.

Once the valve was sealed I tested the system for differential. At first I made the mistake of pressurizing the high size opposite the check valve. As a result, the initial pressurization of the low side blew pressure through the compressor into the high side behind the check valve. Once I bled all pressure and reconnected to the discharge service port and pressurized it was a different story. I pressurized and equalized to 200PSI and then pressurized to 50 PSI on the low side. No bleed through occurred. Shot one is initial. Shot 2 is after 15 minutes.

What's this mean? I gotta finish the water piping and do the electrical work. The issue I'm running into is that my junction box is pretty big. The only place it seems to fit is along side the condenser reservoir that now would sit behind it. That isn't really a problem, but it changes the design a bit. Hopefully tomorrow goes well.

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Continuing from yesterday... The biggest part I got done today was the shroud coil. I had fewer tubes than I wanted, but I think it will work out alright. All it really has to do is build up a good frost inside the shroud to provide somewhat cool air. I don't want to condense TOO much water. I gotta find a way to drain it, though. Its pretty much as I designed it, save a few details. I cut some holes in the shroud for the tubing. Each has a flared end. I have to redo the reservoir inlet, however. It "conflicts" with the pressure sensor. :(

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I then insulated the chest. Not that it was a big pain, but I wish I had some properly formed insulation pieces for a hotel pan. Would have been nice. :p It works out fine though.

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I installed the reservoir to the suction inlet. Its a little off center, and I didn't take any pics. Needless to say I've got to do some testing. Aside from that I have to clean out the evaporator of all the junk before filling it. I'll have to get a siphon after I do that to get the water out of the heat exchangerVacuuming the system down again. This time I'm using both pump ports.

http://imageshack.us/a/img51/3479/hesj.jpg

Finally, this is what happens when you do something stupid.... like use a hole saw, with your hand in its kick back range.... without a glove on!! I didn't take a shot of the cut, but luckily it was a somewhat minor surface abrasion on the back side of the hand next to the thumb. It bled until I cleaned it with Hydrogen-Peroxide... Sizzled and then stopped.. :-p Not smart...

http://imageshack.us/a/img12/2946/7xlq.jpg

Ouch man !!!!
Remember safety first !!!!

Glad your ok :)

Dang, sorry about your hand man! Hey what is the "shroud coil" thing for?

Its intent is to cool the air passing through the radiators. The water won't be flowing through constantly. Instead two solenoids will control the flow for a temporary bypass to cool the coil down and then allow the frost to do the cooling. One solenoid is normally open and the other is normally closed. Thus, they will both be energized to bypass only. I gotta remember to put a riser after the coil to prevent it from draining even a little bit after the solenoid's close.

On a side note, no work will be done next week. I will be on call for work, so I won't be able to do any work.

I've been thinking. I've got to control the condenser side with the compressor shut off. I was considering using the same control that the solenoid uses (thermostat) to control the condenser pump and fans. Does anyone know where I can find the appropriate distribution block for the additional wires. I'll be splitting one source into three devices.

I know what I could use, but I'm not sure where to find them. I'm going to look later tonight, but since I'm on call for work I need to be as efficient as possible. So any help would be appreciated.

You'll have to forgive me for the size.

I've created a diagram for the wiring of the compressor system. The Low Pressure switch has been designated as the control for the compressor. However, for a short period at start-up it will also control the oil solenoid. I will use a timing relay that has a "Delay on Make" setting so that when the low pressure switch activates the compressor, the relay will also be fed power, and after a set period will turn on for several seconds to open the solenoid. Then the contacts will open and the solenoid will de-energize (thus closing). It will literally be a fraction of an am load, so it won't matter much.

I am going to try fitting all of the blocks inside the junction box.

I am working on the second diagram.

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Control set # 2 is set up to control several devices. This will be set to a dual pole relay. A switch will control the Chill Pump & Computer circuit. When that energizes, the thermostat is given power. Saved settings are in memory. This entire circuit is isolated from the compressor circuit. I will need a 20A circuit for the computer and condenser equipment.

This is how it works. The Thermostat controls the condenser side. When the contacts close, it activates the condenser water pump, the radiator fans, and the high side solenoid. The cold coil solenoids are connected to a relay that runs and then repeats. It will only do so when there is demand for cooling and the condenser system is energized. When the contacts open, each is deactivated and it returns to a power down state. The computer continues to run with the chilled pump. The compressor system turns off on its own given the pump down activation.

Should I deactivate power to the computer, the thermostat will not be able to start. The system will be off completely. This way, I cannot turn the computer on without activating the system. The idea is that if I for whatever reason instinctively walk into the room and touch the computer power button nothing will happen without at least the chilled pump running at the very least. And if the chilled pump is running, that means the thermostat can activate the system.

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/7095/5xzm.png

Hoping to have my relays by the end of the week. I've got a better picture of the controls now.

I'm going with a 120V SPST switch to control the output side which will be wired to the accessories as shown above. The terminal blocks on the chill pump and computer side will move to the opposite side of the relay such that the coil is a part of that circuit, but not in series with the loads. The coil doesn't control anything on its own, kind of my mistake when drawing. The one that I listed is an Omron G7L-1A-TUBJ-CB100/120 or similar.

The second relay is an Interval Time Delay Relay. This one will control the oil solenoid. It will energize when the system starts up (Compressor) as stated above. It will disconnect power to the solenoid when the count down expires to reset upon the next energize sequence. Part is a Dayton 1EGC8 or similar.

The next one is a repeat cycle timer. Macromatic TD-88162 or similar. Its pretty much as stated. On for X Seconds/Minutes, off for X seconds/minutes... on...off... etc etc... Water solenoids are wired to it.

All in all, should be able to wire it up soon. Just gotta find a drain pan for the cold coil condensation. ;) Any suggestions? Gotta be 15 x 15 and I'm having trouble finding that hehe

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...osryxXgCxrI%3d
http://www.macromatic.com/search/pro...oduct=TD-88162
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAY...GC8?Pid=search

More work, and getting closed to wiring. I wish I had more time to work on the thing... I'd be finished by now... but it is what it is eh?

Condenser reservoir is all connected and in place. I'm quite pleased with the way that it worked out. Its nice and snug. I'm also much more pleased with the braze quality on this one over the last one. I was able to use the hole saw to achieve a much better fit. The slip fitting does nicely.

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Moving on, I've completed some work on the water inlets for the chilled side. The coil outlet is protected from draining by a vertical run such that the cold water will remain after the solenoid valves revert to the normal flow. I'm going to place the solenoid valves on the outside of the system. Frankly, its getting so cramped inside that there isn't a heck of a lot of room for more parts. Thankfully, I'm almost finished with piping.

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I started with the soft tubing. Unfortunately, my original design produced too much tension with this stuff so I elected to go another way. I'll alternate flow between the smaller and larger radiators.

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/5769/37y3.jpg

That's it so far. I've got only some piping to run and I'll be wiring it soon. The base of the chest is the next thing after wiring that I'll work on so that I can get the piping done before testing. I won't be building the chest until the system is tested vigorously.

I've gotten all of my relays set as appropriate. Just gotta figure out how to set up the junction box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stewie007

Finally,

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Am I stupid or just befuddled. Why are there two separate radiators in this thing.?

A regular refrigerator has a compressor->radiator (to cool the compressed refrigerant)->capillary tube->evaporator (where the liquid refrigerant becomes a gas and in the process absorbs a ton of heat)->back to compressor.

So the evaporator is where the coldness happens. That's what usually is on the cpu no?

Unless you are designing this like a PWR fission reactor with two separate loops-using the evaporator to cool a separate water cooling loop for the cpu. But since the 'core' is not radioactive, I dont see the benefit.

I would be happy to answer all of your questions..... When you decide to be a bit less rude. :p:

I may be wrong and if I am I would love to hear an explanation as well so I can better understand your setup stewie.

It seems like you have the heat exchangers with the water loop acting almost as if they were cooling towers correct? You have the chiller barrel and the condensing barrel where the water that is cooled off by the heat exchangers goes in tot he condensing barrel to condense the high pressure gas back to liquid to make a trip to the chiller barrel to cool off the glycol solution.

Is that the jist of it or am I off?

Thanks,

p.s. I was polite :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by limpkorn

I may be wrong and if I am I would love to hear an explanation as well so I can better understand your setup stewie.

It seems like you have the heat exchangers with the water loop acting almost as if they were cooling towers correct? You have the chiller barrel and the condensing barrel where the water that is cooled off by the heat exchangers goes in tot he condensing barrel to condense the high pressure gas back to liquid to make a trip to the chiller barrel to cool off the glycol solution.

Is that the jist of it or am I off?

Thanks,

p.s. I was polite :)

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They do indeed act as cooling towers.

There is a temporary exchange of energy between the chilled loop and condenser loop, though. The coil inside the shroud receives flow when the solenoids at the inlets are energized and water is redirected through the coil for a set time. That gives the radiators a bit of help and hopefully makes the discharge air from the chiller be a bit cooler than it otherwise would be. It's set at an interval that attempts to keep it frosty, but not a block of ice.... I've gotta make a drain pan for that, though.

I'll give a better explanation when I get it up and running. I'll probably just make a video.... hehe. :)

Can't wait to see it brother thanks for the explanation!

I'm quite eager myself. I have very little left to do but connect all of the water piping and wire it. Although, the wiring is a project in itself... Gotta make sure I check my work very carefully.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stewie007

I'm quite eager myself. I have very little left to do but connect all of the water piping and wire it. Although, the wiring is a project in itself... Gotta make sure I check my work very carefully.....

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Tell me about it. I'm not as experienced as you are as you added quite a few controls to your setup, but even wiring my simple water chiller took some thought and double checking to make sure I wasn't going to fry anything.

I added too many controls..... mostly because of the water cooling option and oil separator. The pump down and oil separator were suggestions from some folks on here. The additional timers and relays were a necessity given the design of the chilled loop and the fact that I wanted my set-up to be fool proof.

At the very least, no computer power unless the pump is on.

Great looking project Stewie! It's quite obvious you've put a lot of time and effort into it. I can't wait to see the results once that bad boy is tuned.

Thanks.

It will be some time before I get to put it on the intended load. However, I'll do some effective load testing with maximum of 1500 watts worth of heat load. Tuning this will be something... The compressor can handle quite a lot of load at the temps I'll be running.

I'm going to set aside a day where I will be fully run testing the unit and observing for hours at a time to ensure proper cycle operation and to adjust for issues. I'll create a cycling load that will simulate the variable nature of the components.

I am open to suggestion as far as charging goes. I am probably going to liquid charge for the first shot, and then vapor charge to the suction to make necessary adjustments. For that process I'll have to rent a scale as I've got a refrigerant charge limit of 3lbs given that the receiver has an actual holding capacity of 2.4lbs of 404a/507, and the condenser coil volume.

At this point, I'm not sure where to start. hehe

I would liquid charge all the way just to be on the safe side since you are using blends. Some may disagree with me but that's how I was taught. I can't imagine you putting anywhere near 3lbs of refrigerant in the unit but maybe:shrug:

I will charge mostly by liquid, as I am more comfortable doing so as well. Though, I chose 507 given its ability to vapor charge as well. I figured that would be easier to do while the compressor is running to vapor charge to the suction side. However, if that is an inaccurate assumption then there is no need to do it that way. Is that an inaccurate assumption?

As far as how much refrigerant.... it beats the heck out of me... My experience is in design, application, and building.... not really up to speed on determining adequate charge hehehe.... I'll rely on you and others for that expertise.. :)

I agree with runmc. An initial charge can be with liquid, maybe a lb. to be safe, then you could trickle in a liquid charge slowly while the unit is running to fine tune it. Just be very careful not to slug the compressor by trying to add to much to fast. I can't see that system going over 3 lbs. either. What's the HP of the compressor?

Nevermind. Looks like 3/4 HP. Google is your friend.

From my understanding the blended refrigerant must be liquid charged otherwise you are not charging the right portions of the blended refrigerants.

Just use your guage set to slowly charge it in like Daddeo said you want to be careful not to slug the compressor.

On the outside of the boxes of r507 I've seen it has arrow pointing to the bottom of the bottle saying this side up for use. To me that means liquid charge and that's what I've always done. I would start with 50psi static charge. Start the unit and then slowly add in very small amount. Maybe a 2 second blast. Wait 10 - 15 min to give unit time to equalize out the charge. I watch for frost returning on the suction line keeping it back a couple of inches from compressor. After I get it in the ballpark I add the load I want and tweak from there.

". I watch for frost returning on the suction line keeping it back a couple of inches from compressor. After I get it in the ballpark I add the load I want and tweak from there.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Frost too close to the compressor could increase your chances of slugging.

I've always learned to never charge a liquid to the suction line. However, despite that 507 can be charged as a vapor, I think I'll go with the recommendations and carefully charge as a liquid on the suction line. I was just uncomfortable given that the compressor is a direct suction to chamber delivery (albeit protected by an accumulator).

That said, R507 and R404a are two different animals. 507 acts as a single refrigerant in vapor and liquid form, and if you look at its PT Chart, it will confirm that. There is not the problem with temperature glide as with 404a. Part of the reason I chose it. :)

All this talk of charging is getting me excited hehe.... I'm a bit bummed out that I can't buy any glycol until the 15th of September.... hehe

I don't know how R507A acts but I do know that it is composed of 50% R125 and 50% R143A that would lead me to believe that when you charge as vapor you may change that 50/50 mix I would just not do it, but anyway you are using R404A which is a ternary blended refrigerant so you definitely must charge as a liquid.

Just charge slowly as liquid keeping your hand on the valve feeding it a few seconds at a time I have no idea how small amounts of liquid would affect a rotary compressor, but I doubt it would be a big deal if you did get a tiny amount through on initial charge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by limpkorn

I don't know how R507A acts but I do know that it is composed of 50% R125 and 50% R143A that would lead me to believe that when you charge as vapor you may change that 50/50 mix I would just not do it, but anyway you are using R404A which is a ternary blended refrigerant so you definitely must charge as a liquid.

Just charge slowly as liquid keeping your hand on the valve feeding it a few seconds at a time I have no idea how small amounts of liquid would affect a rotary compressor, but I doubt it would be a big deal if you did get a tiny amount through on initial charge.

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No, I chose R507. Though, I can see how you that was misleading. I was just differentiating between 404a and 507... although they aren't all that different in terms of make-up.... 507 is an Azeotropic blend and 404a is not quite..... But its all irrelevant now, since I'm going to liquid charge it anyways. (Not exactly two different animals as I said... I know... I exaggerated. :p: )

The normal way to fill a system with an expansion valve and a receiver is to start with a initial guess (i'd say 500g with your system...) and then beginn to apply load and check the sightglass!
With your maximum load there should not be bubbles in your sightglass!
(The more professional approach would be to measure superheat and subcooling but thats nothing I can write quickly^^ )

We german builders use cheap immersion heaters from ebay to loadtest our units, its a lot easier then connecting chiller and PC plus you have a specific load so you can judge the performance of your building :) !

I'm going to utilize some immersion coils, yes. I don't intend on connecting it to the computer without having tested it extensively with a known load.

This will be as close to a professional test stand as it can get hehe. I'm going to charge by superheat, given that the TXV will measure by superheat. That is the best way to guarantee maximum efficiency of the design. Though, I'll probably utilize a mixture of techniques that I've learned to determine the correct amounts of charge and performance.

That said, its going to be interesting; I have never done it before, hehe.

The following will be measured :

EWT and LWT from the evaporator.
EWT and LWT from the condenser
EWT and LWT from condenser to the reservoir.
Superheat and Subcooling

I am aiming for a low condensing temp to save on energy as much as possible, and to increase the load capacity, but not too low to cause the superheat to "crash."

All in all, its going to be a lengthy period of observation and adjustment with a simulated and variable load. I want to know what will be happening at <300 Watts and what will happen at 300 to 1000W, and >1000 Watts.

I'm not putting it in a computer until my design is proven hehehe......

Didn't do much today.... I did complete assembly of the junction box.. :) I'm a bit peeved that the top contactor is crooked though.... :p That's the start capacitor on the outside there... I'll protect it better than that, but it will only get voltage for a short time anyways... Couldn't fit it inside hehe....

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Did some wiring today... All I gotta say is that its extremely frustrating hehehe.... It looks a bit messy, but that's sorta the way it is. Lots of wiring. Most of it is from the compressor wiring hehe.. Conduits weren't working, so I used anchors. So far I've got the compressor wired to the low pressure switch. I've wired the solenoid and the condenser pump so far to the terminal block. I've got the compressor and and the solenoid common wired to the middle terminal.

Not much more to do but wire a few more components. Almost done.

That said, it was very frustrating. Still git a little bit to do... but very frurstrating.. :p:

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I did some work, but nothing really worth posting. I let the vacuum pump run all day as I did some wiring and streamlining. At this point, I can't really do anything else until I get the base built. I have to build the base so that I can route the rest of the piping. Plus, my plastic didn't arrive... online metals has gotten really slow... Ordered on Tuesday... still listed as "checking stock..." WTF...

At the end of the day I got the vacuum down to 470 Microns.... There will be a pause as I have to save up some money for the rest of the parts...

Still very much looking forward to seeing your completed project in action. Keep up the great work.

While there is a lull in activity I figured I'd ask some questions.

I was considering the use of either full cover or "universal" blocks for the GPU(s)..... I figure some decent Ram sinks would be fine, but then I have the insulation to consider. A full cover would be difficult to insulate near the socket, while a universal block like the EK VGA Supreme may run into Ram cooling issues since I'll need at lest 1/2 walls (if not 3/4)...

That said, its also possible that the VGA Ram Heatsinks would help to dehumidify the air next to the insulation warranting a slightly thinner wall. That single lonely RAM chip next to the PCIe connector is of concern, however.... So its still up in the air...

I am considering a specialized connection for full cover blocks, so that isn't a concern right now. I just want to get rid of plastic. Unless you think POM Acetal would be fine at 0-15F. I know Acetal (Delrin) has some pretty decent low temperature resistance, but I'm not convinced.

I find myself leaning towards one of these.

I think I can do a decent job insulating beneath the block as well as around it... One Sided RAM chips mean the back side insulation can be full PCB, and thinner walled.

That full cover block looks to be perfect for chilled water. What do you plan to use for insulation between the pcb and block?

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Originally Posted by Crabby

That full cover block looks to be perfect for chilled water. What do you plan to use for insulation between the pcb and block?

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I have not determined fully. It will be the combination of Polyurethane foam insulation (with a contact cement applied to non contact areas of the block to promote adhesion. On the PCB, I'm researching protective coatings used in marine applications (PCB coatings) for a barrier layer. I'll likely utilize a dielectric grease to fill other gaps. I'll seal with urethane foam in critical areas then encase in a proper insulation. All o-rings that are not Buno-N will be changed to Buno-N. Though, I suspect they already are given that many of these manufacturers are using it.

The back of the PCB will be coated and then insulated as well. I'll have to use grease in the PCIe slot, and encase it as well given the proximity of the card and block to the motherboard.

Any plastic parts will be removed from the block and the inlets will be customized.

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/pro...x?sku=70207172

That'll do it. :) Just gotta be careful of over spray... But that's the stuff. :) I'll just have to use some tape to protect the critical parts, but that should add a good bit of moisture resistance. :)

Have you thought of using eraser ?

Well, this is more of a coating to protect the PCB and components. As far as the eraser is concerned, I may elect to go another route. I can get insulation sheets as thin as 1/8" and they will not conduct heat as well as the eraser. Depending on how much compression stress it would place on the PCB, I may be able to get away with 1/4" sheets.

In spaces where coverage by insulation is not possible, I'll use dielectric grease to fill the gaps beneath the block. The block will be well insulated on the exterior. On the socket, I'll use a spray foam that I can shape after it dries. Or maybe I'll use create a shape mold....

argh I hate using dielectric grease :(

I will limit its use to spaces that I can't cover with anything else. I'm going to experiment with the block. In spaces that are slightly raised I'll coat it with a light adhesive then use a spray foam that I can level with the contact points and see how that works. However the big gap where the capacitors are will be filled with grease given . I'm going to mold a piece of foam around the base of the capacitors, then fill the gap in the block to encase the tops. I am considering using a ceramic thermal grease in that space, but that would be a lot more expensive than dielectric grease.

Sorry if I missed this, but what GPU's are you planning on using ?

LOL... depends on what is out...

I intend on using 7950 Radeon cards.... Likely 3 of them. The machine will be part folding, part workstation, part gaming machine... I know its overkill.... but I tend to hang on to these things for years.... The computer I use at home is nearing 6 years old now.... hehe....

Actually, if I want to use that Heatkiller block (preferred)... It looks like I'd have to use 7970s... Which is fine... just a bit more..

Would putting rubber eraser in the capacitor area of the cpu not be enough or even adequate for insulation? I'm a newb at insulating and decided to go with some rubber eraser, but not sure about the small gaps especially around the immediate socket area.

Rubber eraser is popular, but I don't like its workability. On a CPU socket it isn't as big of a deal close in because most motherboards have a decent amount of space. But I'd rather not be applying pressure to a graphics card in that way. There are several areas under the full cover block that would be a bit hard to cover with eraser reliably. Not to mention the stress it would place on the PCB given the uneven compression of the block.

For such an application, I prefer to use materials that will allow for some compression, while insulating somewhat effectively. As far as the CPU socket, I probably still won't use eraser. The jury is still out on that. Though, it will likely involve a more dense polyurethane foam or similar at the core (the part of the insulation that doesn't contact capacitors). Anything that contacts the capacitor area, I want it to be soft. Some polyurethane foams expand in such a way that they create a lot of stress and could probably separate a few capacitors from the board... So I won't be using anything like that near capacitors.

That said, rubber eraser isn't something I'm going to chastise.. it obviously works to serve a purpose. I'd just rather use something else.

Microwave that eraser for 20-30 seconds first, it becomes very workable :)

Yeah, but you're talking about using fingers... Its not going to be very smooth, and you still have to apply more pressure than I'm comfortable applying on expensive electronics.. Plus, how much does it contract when it cools??? I feel more comfy with a mold and some urethane foam... :)

LOL Stew, it works great man, I have used it like a million times.

I just applied it all around the socket and back of the board. Seems great and I didn't have to apply much preassure to be honest I actually filled the cavity of the socket too and machine is up and running great.

Well, like I said, I'm primarily concerned about using it under a full cover GPU block. I need to have complete contact in a consistent manner that is repeatable. Rubber eraser is more apt to the CPU socket. It makes a good vapor barrier. I am indeed considering it for the CPU socket area.

Its the GPU I'm more concerned about. I have actually considered utilizing a ceramic thermal grease as a vapor barrier... It won't conduct electricity so I can spread it like peanut butter. It will fill all of the caps, and then I can seal it in with a soft calking compound. hehe... I dunno, just thinking... Might be ultra expensive, though...

The project shall continue >=). I got the Cedar Planks for the base. I'm going to surface them and then I'll begin to assemble the base.

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Today was all about the bottom frame. :)

The outer base is made out of cedar. Not only is it easy to work with, but its light weight. The pine studs are going to carry the weight of the chiller to the floor. The cedar will carry some on each end, but the sides will only do so indirectly. After talking design with pops, I elected not to utilize a plywood floor. It is generally unnecessary and will give no additional support given that the chiller already has a base.

I can see that carrying this thing might be difficult...

By completing this base, I will be able to route the piping and the final wiring connections successfully. The refrigeration loop is complete. Gauges are installed, and only the water loop must be completed on both sides of the refrigeration loop.

Oh... and boy I love the smell of cedar... hehe.

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As it turns out, the "contraption" wasn't as heavy as I thought it would be. The design actually worked out quite well. The measurements worked out quite well.


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The measurements were right on. The red circled flare elbow will pass through the base and will run beneath. The second image shows where the inner frame is. The placement worked out so well that I'll be able to clamp the insulated tubing right to the stud. :)

Proud of my work hehe.

That's it so far.

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Looks really good Stew, almost like you know what your doing! :D

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Originally Posted by Crabby

Looks really good Stew, almost like you know what your doing! :D

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:rofl:

I'll take that as sarcasm and not an insult... :p:

I was psyched because usually when I try to measure for placement I @#$%$# something up... :p: :ROTF:

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Looks really good Stew, almost like you know what your doing!

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:clap: :clap: :clap:

A part of me just died from oxygen deprivation after all the laughter.
But seriously, this thing looks great.

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Originally Posted by Stewie007

I'll take that as sarcasm and not an insult... :p:

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Was certainly not an insult. I am truly impressed by your build and fab skills and like I said before, can't wait to see it in action!

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Originally Posted by Crabby

Was certainly not an insult. I am truly impressed by your build and fab skills and like I said before, can't wait to see it in action!

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I know that. hehe... I just got a kick out of it because it reminded me of how giddy I was when I measured after the placement. I'm not used to the feeling of satisfaction...hehehe :)

There is always some way I'm going to nitpick something that I've done because something didn't end up to be EXACTLY as I had planned. This time it worked out EXACTLY as planned.... Probably because I listened to my old man for a change and developed a proper base design. :ROTF:

I love this build i might have to see it in action one day BF4 needs this

I am hoping to complete wiring this weekend, as well as the routing of the final piping. I am not certain if I'll be able to charge the unit, however. I still don't have any glycol, and its expensive. I've changed my mind and decided to go with Ethylene Glycol; its better for low temp apps.

Either way, I'm going to try to do a final evacuation and possibly an initial charge. That remains to be seen, though....

WOW. Fantatic Project. Looking really nice.