I disagree , logical is to compare threads vs threads. That is what you get at the end of the day. And price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse
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I disagree , logical is to compare threads vs threads. That is what you get at the end of the day. And price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse
But 1 core + HT is two threads... just like one BD module.Quote:
Originally Posted by -=DVS=-
They both are designed to add only a small increase in die area for significantly higher multithreaded performance
Intel core has I think 5% more die area from HT for about 20% more performance
While a BD module is 12% larger than a single (full) core, and AMD claims 80% more performance.
No. Im thinking newegg will have them thursdayQuote:
Originally Posted by duron
No point; with 2700k around the corner and price drop for the 2600k.
So we see a decline of MSRP of FX-8150P (from ~$300 to ~$270)Quote:
Originally Posted by matari
OKQuote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
i'll keep refreshing the Egg then :D
If 2700K will be released ... you will not see a drop on the 2600K .. they will replace it...... Intel have launch 12 new CPU, who are for most the same cpu with a better clock for the same TDP.. look like they production is better and they can increase the clockspeed for the same TDP. We tend to forget this is not GPU, if Intel launch a series with a max TDP of 95W, they keep this TDP, if they can get 100mhz for the same TDP, so they release some new models ....Quote:
Originally Posted by matari
So far, it looks like a BD module will have no throughput advantage when running two threads versus a comparably clocked SB core with HT. However, with one thread,SB will have a significant advantage. So it seems to me that the wide core + SMT strategy is superior to the AMD's dual narrow integer core CMT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse
we will need bench for see that ..... but don't forget, Bulldozer FX is a step and this the first step.. for see how this strategy is really good or not, personally i will wait Piledriver for have a real idea of what this strategy can bring on the table.
Then it is needed to see how this work on a server based system for start speak on how good or bad it is.....
If you base your comment on the Handbrake " results" ... it is really not enough... It is an opensource project, i have absolutely no idea on what instructions are used, called in it. And the result look to vary so much from a run to another, i don't know why reviewers use it as a test... if they use it, it's only cause many use it for encode mobile movies, it can be used as an information, but as a bench breaker, i really doubt of it's value.
Still intrigued by this post. And I'm not too concerned about Sandy E, particularly if Bulldozer is priced to perform; or beats the current Core I5-I7 as that article seems to indicate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ga1ve1an
Based on what benchmarks exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by accord99
in your crystal ball?Quote:
Originally Posted by accord99
When the 2700K is released expect the 2600K to be discontinuedQuote:
Originally Posted by matari
A lack of evidence hasn't stopped AMD supporters from claiming CMT is superior to Hyperthreading.
Thats because they're trying to be positive in every aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by accord99
Here's what i expect..
Benchmarks are released showing the 8150 beating up on the 2500K in multithreaded apps but losing in Gaming
Amd fans rejoice because they beat sandy bridge
Intel fans say you need 8 cores to beat 4
Amd fans say it doesn't matter we just want to beat intel
Mindless bickering ensues till SB-E arrives and then it starts all over again.
Intel fans say 3830K destroys Bulldozer in everything
Amd fans say you can't compare them because of the pricing
Intel fans say bow down and wash my car
To be Continued when IB gets released
You don't think it's possible to make an educated guess based on the details of the architecture?Quote:
Originally Posted by accord99
Also, AMD themselves claim 80% more multithreaded performance over a single thread.
And yes, we can't take that figure as gospel, but if it's even somewhat close to that it would be safe to say it's better than hyperthreading.
Blanket statement much?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
I wouldn't claim to know if BD can win against SB single threaded, in either IPC or frequency. I'd only guess it would be somewhere in the ballpark.
Didn't the same thing happen with Thuban? So much hype then mediocre results?Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse
What hype are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
Personally I didn't expect it to be anything more than Deneb with 2 more cores, with single threaded performance staying the same.
More like an educated guess. I believe BD will be good and if bloomfield was still top dog would surpass it but SB is a whole nother animal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse
Hard for me to comment when I haven't even seen a SB-e chip yet let alone worked with one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ga1ve1an
More like what's an educated guess? That AMD fans are trying to be positive in every aspect? Or do you mean something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
I'm an AMD fan. Yet I'm trying to be realistic.
Yes, I'd say it's probably better than bloomfield. Against SB, that's still unknown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
Just a thought and probably one that will get laughed at but how about for once
WE ALL TAKE A STEP BACK and look at these things for what they are.
We have two companies that compete for our and the rest of the worlds business.
They both bring out at times excellent products and once in a while real dogs.
There's a ton of rumors going around on the BD chips and I can honestly tell you
that many of them are SO wrong it's not even funny.
I was there in Austin and saw with my own eyes a lot of what these can do BUT
that is different from setting up your own machine and then KNOWING what it will do.
Same with Intel, they all want to show you their products in the best light possible and that they should be doing.
After all, this is business right guys?
I wish I could say more but when you give your word to someone to keep your big mouth closed till X date then you have to do so.
Bottom line is patience my friends, it won't be that long till we all have GOOD hard numbers in front of us and then we can decide with information instead of speculation.
/threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
according to my scientific research, to get the real benchmark numbers from manufacturers* you have to reduce 15%~ from their inflated results.
*this includes AMD, Intel & nvidia.
I have make 15 sites in the last 4 hours for find a semblant of leaked numbers ( French, UK, Australian, japan, and US sites ), and i can't still find them ......... so i will made like all, i will wait the reviews.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
I agree with your words, it#s exactly how act the peoples. whatever is the side, Nvidia vs AMD; Intel vs AMD, MAC vs PC, Samsung vs Apple .... but right now, you can't apply it, as you as me, and many other here, just don't know anything on how BD will perform....
I need say, Nvidia and AMD thoses 2 last years, have surely make us write miles and miles of text, They just keep us in dark till the release ..... but we all speak aboujt them ..
CMT probably is better than hyperthreading, but that alone isn't going to make bulldozer faster than Sandy Bridge. Core 2 Duo didn't have an IMC and still took the performance crown from AMD after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by accord99
I wouldn't be surprised to see CMT in haswell, or even a combination of CMT and HT.
if i had a thank you button i would use it now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
I don't think AMD is as interested in blowing Intel away at the high end as they are in blowing them away in mainstream with their new APUs. Bulldozer will be an excellent chip at a good price point. However, Llano and in the future, Trinity are where their real profits will be.
Trinity apparently can run Deus Ex. You can bet that this is where they are placing their main focus. High end enthusiasts represents a small part of the market. They have to increase profits in order to better fund R&D for said products, and you aren't going to do that with lower volume products. Take my company for example. I work in the commercial HVAC industry. The residential business makes all of the money, and our profits are insignificant next to their billions. So its not enough to fund big projects. So we're all pretty much dependent on the biggest business. For AMD, that is mainstream.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/..._Notebook.html
Exactly, they need something that will bring them some money and expensive CPU's won't. Be it APU's or BD CPU's at ~$250Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechromancer
yeah i know it's shame,... anyway, this is surely the best simulator i have flight ............
At same time i can understand, peoples don't want forcibly put so much time to be able use the system of the plane, and want more " direct action... " ... but this is just the most perfect simulator i have ever seen... and seriously i was start to be in pain to play old simulator with really outdated graphics ( and the A10 graphics are just really nice, this is a nice addition over the extreme realism of the avionics of this simulators )
You know that a top crop cpu basically costs the same to make as the lowest end cpu, right? (yeah yeah i know thats not entirely true anymore with the drifferent masks for n-core cpus)Quote:
Originally Posted by repman
The higher the avg price they can sell there cpus, the higher the profit.
Hornet331, did you know that the CPU you sell as higher binned one, you will sell in 100s, and the same CPU which you bin lower and less pricier, you will sell in 100s of thousands. So tell me which way makes you more money?
All the money in GPU and CPU business comes from lower end stuff. That's where volume is.
Did my statement contradict that somehow?.... I talk about appels, you about bananas.Quote:
Originally Posted by muziqaz
No he doesn't know that, because it isn't true. According to AMD's most recent Quarterly Filing, the APUs represent a lower cost product. Its in the footnotes. Manufacturing processes are never black and white. Not only do the APUs represent a lower cost product, but higher volume of sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Additionally, lets say that you are correct and both products cost the exact same in variable costs. You sell 10,000 of your low end, and 1000 of your high end. The low end product sells for 100, and the high volume for 250. Your revenues are 1,000,000 and 250,000 respectively. So, we're back to square one. Even if you were correct and cost is the same for both (which it is not), you still are not making that much on your high end chips.Quote:
Excerpt from SEC Filing:
Computing Solutions operating income was $142 million in the second quarter of 2011 compared to $128 million in the second quarter of 2010. The
improvement in operating results was primarily due to a $16 million decrease in cost of sales and a $10 million decrease in research and development
expenses partially offset by a $9 million increase in marketing, general and administrative expenses. Cost of sales decreased primarily due to increased
volume of lower cost APU platforms. Research and development expenses decreased and marketing, general and administrative expenses increased for the reasons set forth under "Expenses" below.
Computing Solutions operating income was $142 million in the second quarter of 2011 compared to $100 million in the first quarter of 2011. The
improvement in operating results was primarily due to a $17 million decrease in research and development expenses and a $14 million decrease in marketing, general and administrative expenses. Research and development expenses and marketing, general and administrative expenses decreased for the reasons described under "Expenses" below.
Computing Solutions operating income was $242 million in the first six months of 2011 compared to $274 million in the first six months of 2010. The
decline in operating results was primarily due to a $46 million increase in marketing, general and administrative expenses and a $36 million increase in
research and development expenses, partially offset by a $13 million decrease in cost of sales. Marketing, general and administrative expenses and research and development expenses increased for the reasons set forth under "Expenses," below. Cost of sales decreased primarily due to increased volume of lower cost APU platforms.
In general, the less expensive the product, the higher the volume of sales. In order for the high volume products in my example to bring in the same revenues, they would have to sell for ten times as much given a 90/10 mix. Or For the same price it would have to be 60/40 for mainstream/high end respectively.
AMD should have excellent cost control for their manufacturing considering their current contract supposedly leaves GF to eat all the non functional dies. Yields could be 1% but other than being supply limited GF would be eating those costs.
I'm sure the manufacturing costs will eventually be averaged into AMD's cost (unless GF doesn't care about profit) but right now AMD should be in heaven in regards to manufacturing costs.
It's no different than the deal with TSMC, and I wager other companies have similar deals with fabs, so not really a big advantage for AMD.
While I don't disagree completely with that I would wager AMD & GF's unique situation paves the way for AMD to get a much sweeter deal than anybody else in the industry would get from an independent foundry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantsu
After all one would have a hard time surviving without the other as things stand today. However with GF's owners having deeper pockets to pull from I wager they are getting the shorter end of the stick for the time being to help keep AMD in the black.
TSMC and other independent foundries have a diverse customer base as well as technology offerings as far as different processes are concerned. They are in a much better position to remain viable if they where to lose some fab work from a customer that went out of business. Their number one priority would first and foremost be profitability and survival of their foundry keeping their pricing competitive.
Are you sure? Read your comment again and then read Stewie007's comment because he elaborates on what I was talking and explains it better than me ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I read several articles stating that we will see a price drop when 2700k was released. The only thing we do not know is when. I still see no point in going with bulldozer unless you have several builds; the price difference between the two might be a small upgrade in GPU or more storage.
The driving force of the low-cost APUs are the E-xxx and C-xx series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie007
They have lower ASPs (~$33), but with much higher margin (expected to be 50%+).
My point is, the profits are in the mainstream, via the Llano and future Trinity. BD high end FX chips are not going to be the money makers.
High Volume is always the money maker. The point I was trying to make is that costs are not the same, but given that they were, it would still take quite a bit of FX chips to catch up with the APU revenues.
Besides, its in the bloody footnotes. There is no arguing with that. ;)
so , I hear BD will need a driver to shine?
lol :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by bl4ckdr4g00n
:rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by bl4ckdr4g00n
What bulldozer doesn't need a driver to really move
Neah,it needs tanks of gasoline :D
Sarcasm is a b**** :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Greg83
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg83
http://www.girlsquadx.com/life/burni...terpillar.jpeg
^That's hilarious! What is that thing? :rofl:
Got me bro. I just googled bulldozer and it appeared :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerwidh
Guys I know most of you are not familiar with the different types of construction vehicles but it is very important not to confuse a Frontloader with a Bulldozer, this is why:
below is a FRONTLOADER and it is used by Bob the Builder to make big Sandy Piles
http://www.kimludlow.com/TEC%20929/W...rontloader.jpg
now please understand the difference between that above and a BULLDOZER which is used by Amd to tear any :banana::banana::banana::banana: made out of sand down:
http://photo-dict.faqs.org/photofile...3bulldozer.jpg
get it? :)
The frontloader looks hard at work as the bullDOZER seems to be just camping out displaying its big loud mouth.......this trait falls/fails the hardest.
Lets hope that puppy can do the job... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
http://www.weirdlyodd.com/wp-content...e-France-1.jpg
that's cheating... it's not made out of sand!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
with some effort i could see that big bulldozer taking out one of those support structures causing the whole sandy bridge to come crashing down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evantaur
but that requires a driver willing to do it
funny thread
It's going to take way more than a bulldozer to take out that bridge, look at how tiny the tractor trailer crossing the bridge is, that is what would haul the bulldozer, like an ant attacking a watermelon scale wise.
http://www.weirdlyodd.com/wp-content...e-France-1.jpg[/QUOTE]
Lol there is a CAT advertisement from all the talk about bulldozers. So much for being a tech forum.
Then we'll need some seriously huge bulldozers :D There are bigger ones out there too.....
Attachment 120222
Attachment 120223
the tour neau is a front loader
for giant machines...have a gander here.. http://technicallyjuris.blogspot.com...ongo-eyes.html
The Millau bridge, simply amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4ZNMEpsocYQuote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
Sorry for derailing the thread guys... At least we got 1 day away from the deadline with some distractions :p:
To be fair this is XtremeSystems so a suitably Xtreme Bulldozer is required. It even comes with a remote control option.
Attachment 120231
Nice zombie defense vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathReborn
^^And they call them teddy bear :)
also a bit xtreme :
Attachment 120234
i have a question here..... AMD Bulldozer processor Release?
soon :)
Yeah, soon cannot come fast enough....but then I guess its the 19th and there is still no sign of anything dozer like...
Hey AMD, it's Sep-19. Where is Bulldozer? :D
Quote:
soon
Do you know guys I have wait for this processor (Bulldozer):) since AMD Spoke About it in 2009 When AMD said Bulldozer will be launched this year (2009) Then AMD delay the Bulldozer to 2010, Then We heard that the Bulldozer delay Again! to Early 2011 . and now amd still delay the Bulldozer (early summer 2011) (September 2011) , After that I thought that the Bulldozer processor has Release!! But now you guys Tell me that the Bulldozer not released yet!!! and will be release soon!!! I am tired of this f*cking delay (I apologize for my language) But I can not be patient more than that,This is a bad situation for AMD . AMD Shame on you:(Quote:
Yeah, soon cannot come fast enough....but then I guess its the 19th and there is still no sign of anything dozer like...
Attachment 120237
ffs, it never was a 19th. I think this date came from one delusional person called Fuad.
Well, ok thats not the date then...fine. Anyway AMD says Q4, lets hope it is Q4 of this year...I am really waiting for this chip, with the rest of the components already up and running.
This wait is really annoying, I wish AMD would just give us a specific release date already.
It came from teaser vid AMD made, around 0:15 at left lower corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by muziqaz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL-M4ONKAOI
All I see is ...ember 19th ;)
And I should have added it never was a September 19th ;)
The problem is not the release date the problem is AMD Do not respect Customers......Unfortunately This is what I feel :(Quote:
This wait is really annoying, I wish AMD would just give us a specific release date already.
It may well be unfortunate that you feel that, but it's only unfortunate for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Last Meal
It was assumed to be september... Im just saying where it came from, not that it was anything official or anything like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by muziqaz
its only 7:45 central time people get over it.
It's not september or november or whatever you want... :D
Inside a discussion on an italian forum HERE
You can see a frame from the grafic novel:
Attachment 120238
And one from a 2007 AMD slide:
Attachment 120239
don't you notice anything?
:up:
p.s: thanks dav1deser
No comment:(Quote:
don't you notice anything?
Hopefully people will put to rest this thing about september 19th. Good post Walrus
Everyone is so desperate that they cling onto basically every date on the calendar. heh Just chill, guys, it'll get here when it gets here. Besides, as with everything in life the anticipation is more satisfying to us humans than the actual acquisition. You may consciously think this is torture, but under that your subconscious is being immensely stimulated by the wait. Or maybe that was the line she gave me on our first date.
We'll have to be patient a little more.
;)
And reading what Movieman and Chew wrote in the last days i'm sure we will be pleased!!!
:D
If they were releasing today sites would have had reviews and they'd already be on newegg and tigerdirect.
Everyone would know about it by now and its 0858 central. I know the anticipation is high. But there nothing we can do to speed things up. So why stress? Everything will be OK in a few days. Patients is a virtue!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
Two months left, I'm tired of waiting :(
My impatience is from me suddenly NEEDING a new processor yesterday. I held off ordering one because I was really hoping for news of a release date being very soon today. I dont want to spend $120 today and then AMD to suddenly be like "oh BTW Zambezi is now out" just next week or whatever. If its going to be that soon I dont want to and cant afford to spend money on two processors.
BTW, November 19th is a Saturday, so thats not going to happen. Business days are Monday - Friday.
You do realize that that slide is from the original phenom launch? you know the one that struggled to clock past 3.0 when it first came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by amdsempron_xs
read the slide. PHENOM 9500/9600/8xxx/7xxx
Never mind I see now. Wow. Bad joke on AMD's part. Lots of people where hoping for that to be the release date.Quote:
Originally Posted by stangracin3
Can't help but wait....
dont give up!Quote:
Originally Posted by amdsempron_xs
Hi everyone!
It`s not easy anymore to wait for Zambezi. Only if someone (from AMD) tell to the world when, oh when :D will they launch it. Hmm maybe they don`t know yet. :)
The latest is that they are releasing in Oct sometime.
Could be, but it`s not an official statement so... But of course I also believe that we have to wait no more than 3 maybe 4 weeks. What is more important how it performs, I hope it will not be the worst case scenario- it comes late but it performs bad :eek::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Canis-X
anandtech said it wasn't coming soon, so you can get over it guys. go away for a month.
This is where I got that from....but purely speculative
http://www.nordichardware.com/news/6...r-october.html