The tsunami hitting parts of Japan looked totally surreal. My hopes are with all of you :).
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The tsunami hitting parts of Japan looked totally surreal. My hopes are with all of you :).
All though nothing like what hit Japan, the California coast was hit today and is continuing to see effects of this.
Cresent City had something like ~7 foot surges and sank 30-35 boats.
I was watching TV when surges went though Santa Cruz and did a fair amount of damage.
Marina Del Ray also had big surges that did a fair amount of damage.
So many people out here just shrug off these things when the warnings come, but I think this is the worst I have seen in my life along the California coast after big earth quakes.
I think that "bad stuff" is happening all around the world just as much as before, however we're a lot more aware of those events with up-to-the-minute coverage on the internet/tv/radio/newspapers. I don't want to take away anything from the tragedy that is this epic earthquake, mind you. It's just that if you only got your news from one source only and had to prioritize between all possible news items of interest, you probably would end up with a narrow selection and think that the world is a pretty safe place (i.e. the "good old days").Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Oj101
+1,000,000Quote:
Originally Posted by antiacid
natural disasters have been happening for a long long time, but thanks to satalite tv we can now experiance the carnage in HD. it's so good, you can almost taste the brain matter.... TURN THE TV OFF.
say a prayer for the people of Japan and make a donation to your favorite charity.
how to help the vicitms of the earthquake in Japan
Any concrete news on the nuclear plant issues? Last I heard the number one and number two plants are in a state of emergency because they can't get them cool.
Yeah, we sure are well off up here. I don't think the climate change could bring tsunamis or earthquakes of any significance, either, seeing how far we are from the edges of our tectonic plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD
They're venting pressure from one of the plants. They said some radiation will be present but minimal. Problem is even though the reactor is shut down, the radiated ore is still active and very hot. Thats where the issue is trying to cool it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight203
Venting pressure from the plants is a good thing long term. Short term there may be a minimal release to the environment, but that means no permanent core damage(aka meltdown). I've been trying to find more info since I work at a nuclear power plant myself and I just can't find any :(.
Edit: Some news agencies are commenting that levels are 1000 times normal and that pressure in the reactor is 1.5 times "normal". That's really NOT that big of a deal so don't worry about that stuff. These systems are designed to handle some serious :banana::banana::banana::banana:. Everything is overbuilt and with multiple redundancies. Of course, this is the 5th most powerful earthquake ever recorded. I guess we'll see who wins in this battle of man versus nature.
4 people missing and one confirmed death last I heard. Yeah it's pretty bad, even over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye
The ideal thing to happen now is that everything slowly goes back to normal and people recover from this. They don't need another quake messing things up even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by josh1980
Question: since you work @ a plant, do they need heavy water to cool it down or can any water be used?
It depends on the design. For power plants designed solely for producing electricity, heavy water has no value. Obviously, water chemistry is important. During an emergency if you don't have pure water available you use whatever you can get. Whether it be drinking water, lake water, river water, etc. It's better to ruin the water chemistry in the reactor(which is recoverable) than to melt a reactor core(not so recoverable).Quote:
Originally Posted by thematrixhazune
Heavy water is useful for certain designs when attempting to produce certain isotopes. However if just trying to cool the reactor any water will do.
Guys i just submit a record in google person finder for Miahallem, if someone know something about him please update the status.
http://japan.person-finder.appspot.c...llen&role=seek
What happened today is obviously a tragedy and my thoughts goes out to the victims, their families and friends. Yet I feel that the Japanese government(s)/institutions must be commended for their past efforts in quakeproofing the country during the past decades. The devastation could have been much much greater than what we're witnessing today if it weren't for them.
So the east coast of japan moved 8 feet apparently...
did the west coast move too?
This reminds me of the Indian ocean tsunami in 2004, which killed over 200000 people, although that happened in an area much less prepared for tsunamis.
People who worked with medical care didn't know what to do with patients who had sand in their blood vessels, which had entered the body because of the extremely high water pressure!Quote:
With a magnitude of between 9.1 and 9.3, it is the third largest earthquake ever recorded on a seismograph. This earthquake had the longest duration of faulting ever observed, between 8.3 and 10 minutes. It caused the entire planet to vibrate as much as 1 cm (0.4 inches) and triggered other earthquakes as far away as Alaska.
Large land areas got unusable for agriculture for years, since it was all filled with seawater, killing pretty much all vegetation.
There are just so many side effects of a tsunami that most people can't even imagine. I guess it's much easier to be prepared for earthquakes than tsunamis.
Fiance is in Japan until August of this year, but is studying in Osaka. She actually got to Tokyo last night (for a meeting today...that did not happen) and the earthquake happened. She said it wasn't bad where she was at. I know she lost communication with her cell phone for about an hour (or longer...). I'm glad she is okay.
Anyone know if duck is okay?
I've only seen a little bit of news coverage. I saw the water + debris mix moving across the land a taking out a village with no effort whatsoever. There weren't any people visible, but a couple of cars trying to get away. One car was doing alright, but the debris front swirled around and cut off the road in front, while the bulk took out what was behind. The footage cut away, but I can't imagine how ****ing scary and hopeless that situation would feel for the person/people in the car. I was a bit sad because realistically, that was footage of someones impending death :(
My sympathies to the people, families and friends of anyone caught up in it. I hope the search and rescue mission isn't just a soul-destroying body hunt :(
I hope everyone and their families are ok!
Japan is really very well prepared for earthquakes, the building are designed to sway back and forth during an earthquake i watched a documentary about it.
But you can never prepare for the worst :(
As far as I could see, the main problem was with the tsunamis. Proofing against one of those would probably be a trillion dollar project.Quote:
Originally Posted by sin0822
Quake upgraded to 9.1Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats
St. Louis moved: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/a...7a4a78c22.html
i just got word from MIAHALLEN. he is ok but communication is limited because of power outages, internet access etc
he should be back on soon
FUGGER-san , CAL930-san, and all,
Thank you for worrying,
We had blacked out around here for just 24 hours.
Able to use electricity now.
There are a lot of victims more in the northern country....:(
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL930
glad to hear you guys are all right.
I wonder why the galactic federation hasnt stepped in yet to prevent the meltdown ! >_<
On a serious note, i wish all the best to those who have survived this drama.
I believe duck is alive and well -> Last Activity: Today 12:52 AM
Fukushima 1&2 are possibly in extreme state now... really, hoping for best here :(
They have probably less than 24 hour from now to prevent much worse tragedy from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis
Yes really sad news,lets hope that Fukushima 1&2 still hold
Just got a news flash. 4 people hospitalize from explosion.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by natu
I just heard one of the reactors is in the meltdown stage venting radiation... ^^
I guess that it cannot explode like the Chernobyl thing..., supposedly a diff design.
Also heard that several people were hurt that were working on the prob.
People around the area have been evacuated I guess.
:|
Thank you all for your sympathy.
I believe all Katana/Team Japan members are ok to keep benching.
Very worrying thing is the meltdown of nuclear plant; just heard some explosion inside the plant as well as so many people had severe damages in northern part of Japan.
Why are you guys even using nuke plants anyways?
Fuel prices/shortages?
I thaught all of japan was against anything nuke, except for weapons for defence...(been discussed over 15 years ago and now being implimented I heard).
Yesterday was the 1st time I've even heard of japan using nuke reactors...
I feal for you guys there in japan :(.
According to a German n-tv channel, it meant the covering of the Reactors has been damaged or destroyed. Have a picture was seen out of Fukushima is a huge cloud after the explosion
sry for my not so good English ^^
An eplosion in Fukushima 1, hoping it was coolant/not core :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU
What I heard covering wise was it was a turbine shaft.
I don't really know anything though.
I do surmise that if this isn't a pebble pond design, but maybe a rod design, you guys may just have to blow up the reactor to get it to stop...
And do a cleanup afterwards.
Sounds harsh, but if it is a stuck rod, there's no way you're gonna cool it down enough to get it unstuck...
I don't know though, the news is never that accurate to begin with, plus I'm not a nuke expert or anything.
All I can do hope for the best.
I hate enriched uranium isotope stuffs...
Edit:
1st a fire now an explosion?
Hopefully that's the end of that reactor..., time to get the soap out and start cleanup maybe, by the gods I hope it's over...
Good to hear from those members who have checked in and hoping for the best with those we still haven't heard from.
I had to stop watching the new this morning, I tend to work myself up into a bad state watching long coverage of disasters ( many examples over the last ten years )... Just hoping and praying for the best and safety of those still in need of help.
Its not smoke its steam. If i understand BWR properly, thats not good at all
The steam that is let out is filtered, although not 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodkin
My thoughts out to all my friends and fellow XS members in Japan...
I have some friends over there... Luckily it seems everyone is okay so far, but some of their families and friends have been affected by the quakes.
I hope everything turns out okay for everyone.
This is just devastating, my heart goes out to everyone in Japan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa58Yjcnkq8
@1:22
doesnt look good im afraid.
Doesnt look good at all,
If the plant melts down then the Tsunami and Earthquake will seem tame in comparison as the nuclear fallout will make the area worthless for decades
Good to hear, our japanese friends are all right!
Really sad to hear, what happens, all the best to you and you'r families!
:up::up: thanks for for letting us know ...Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL930
First thanks for everyone prayers , just got my computer up and running, my room was almost trashed by failing items everywhere in the house, also I was stuck on a train north of Tokyo yesterday for 2 hours, very scary, thought the train was going to fall off the bridge that we were struck on, had to walk 7 hours to get home after getting off the train, phones lines were down until this morning and now the Explosion heard at Fukushima nuclear plant, the blast at the nuclear plant may have been caused by a hydrogen explosion but the radiation level is getting higher in that area the reports at the moment
Really hope that the radiation situation does not worsen
Not good at this time, the evacuation area around the no.2 plant has been extended from 10km to 20km :(Quote:
Originally Posted by h0bbes
WOW...I'm trying to read through the thread now guys (it'll take me a few more minutes:p:)....but before that, I wanted to say thanks a buch for all the well wishes :up: I just got net access back a few minutes ago....
Here is the update I just posted for my family on FB :cool:
Quote:
Sendai is about 200 miles SE of us. So our area felt a big quake...and the 3rd major aftershock....a 6.6 off our coast...were all pretty scary.
But, I just wanted to let you all know we're OK. They were big quakes, but far enough away to have minimal effect here. We lost power for 20 hours, and it was blizzard condition at the time....so it was a cold night. The kids and I snuggled together in bed. The only loose end is that Sonia is on the other side of the country right now. She drove early Friday to meet some friends visiting from Tokyo....I was planning to drive with the kids Friday night to meet her at the Air Force base. But those plans have been put on hold.
As of right now, Sonia is safe and with friends in Misawa Air Force Base...but the power is still off over there and her gas tank is empty...so she'll be stuck until the power comes on and the gas starts to flow again. The other complication is that the main roads between us and Misawa are closed, so she'll either need to wait until the roads open, or she'll have to navigate the back roads, which would be a bit tough on her.
Tonight, the kids and I are safe and warm at home, and thinking of all of you praying for all of us. Thanks you so much, we'll keep you updated as things progress.
Miah
heres another video of the explosion, shorter and without lots of multi colored animations flashing on the screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjx-J...watch_response
that looks scary...
and this isnt over yet... this was one of the reactors, there are 6!
honestly, im shocked how this could happen to begin with...
how could a reactor COMPLEX fail so badly that SEVERAL reactors are possibly going into meltdown now? :eek:
there IS a backup coolant system but it wasnt designed to cool several reactors?
and its only a temporary solution running on BATTERIES???
0_o what kind of a nuclear plant is this exactly?
I always thought japan is leading the way in reactor development and safety?
and now a simple mechanical failure of some metal rods is possibly causing multiple meltdowns and there is nothing anybody can do to stop it?
wtf?
man... and all this happens while japans economy isnt exactly in great shape either... feel really sorry for you guys :/
good to hear your fine mia!
The Fukushima reactors are contained Boiling Water Reactors that are not at all like less safe types like the reactors that were in Chernobyl or Pressurized Water Reactors. Radioactivity has already leaked from the plant and more will undoubtedly be released but not to the extent or in an explosive form with major fallout a la ChernobylQuote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Saaya - IIRC the Powerplants are built for 8.2 - this was an 8.9 (336 megatons TNT equivalent), some would say this to be a force majeure..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale
edit: i believe that Japan is THE BEST prepared country for earthquakes/tsunami. If this had happened anywhere else we`d be counting the lost in hundreds of thousands.
Just checked Deutche Welle news, germany is also sending SAR with canine units. I believe all help is needed, even for a country as strong as Japan.
This is no exact science. I doubt every 8.2 earth quake is the same ;) If nuclear power plants are made to withstand a 8.2 earth quake, I don't think a 8.8 earth quake makes much of a difference, since you engineer everything with safety measures. In mechanical engineering everything is 1.5 to 3.0 (iIrc) times stronger than it theoretically needs to be to cope with unforseen cases. And I think for nuclear power plants these numbers are higher ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis
8.2 vs 8.9 is 7x more powerful IIRC
EQ of 9 on richter is 10x the power of 8.
edit: infromation is, that the core is intact - the radioactive material is contained. not official. Fingers crossed/knock on wood etc.
I wasn't aware of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis
Quote:
Originally Posted by en.wikipedia.org
Japan nuclear plant update: Area residents told to stay indoors, not drink tap water and to cover faces with wet towels or masks :(
Hi,
According to NHK World the meltdown be going.
Let's hope thats not true
Lets hope its just a precaution... still hope the inner core is intact.
I condole with all people affected this nature element.
The huge earthquake, than tsunami and now nuclear danger.
I wish you all best and pray for hope and better days.
Phew..lets hope its correct.
Unfortunately Japan has NO natural gas/coal etc. So they must use whats available - nuclear is the only way for such densly populated country.
Solar isnt an option - i think. Geothermal? Tidal? Most likely wont provide enough.
Now, please stop this. Not the place or time.
I usually never pray as I'm not a very religious person but this time I did and hope all nuclear plants will be safe, they SHOULDN'T need to suffer anymore than they've already done.
well thats great, but why dont we build reactors that dont blow up to begin with? lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by dctokyo
i mean seriously... what kind of security systems did they use exactly?
yeah probably... but clearly not enough...Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis
since humantiy meassured and recorded qukes there has been a scale 9 quake in chile already, and weve only been doing this for 200 years or so... which is nothing in the bigger scale of things...
its not like nobody expected a quake this strong to happen...
everybody knew it WOULD happen, its just that nobody knew WHEN it would happen...
im not an engineer, but why would it be so hard to build a plant that would rather fall apart than cause a meltdown? you cant build an indestructable plant obviously, but why cant they build a plant that falls apart and radiation escapes, but radioactive material does NOT.. instead these plants keep the the material under high pressure and at high temps until it blows up?
sounds weird...
not saying thats whats going on but it sounds that way from the little news i can find about it...
Good to hear from Miah-san!!Quote:
Originally Posted by miahallen
Your family are also safe...Very good news!
Thanks for posting here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
if you could design a system to count for every eventuality then you would be a very rich man... you best get started.
Good to see you are ok miah:up: Glad you and family are safe:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by miahallen
Most likely nothing will withstand full blast of 9+ earthquake on richter scale. You just cant build strong enough sometimes - the cost would go through the roof. The nature has no limits, just things we havent experienced yet.
All the best wishes to the people in Japan! :)
I'm glad to hear Team Japan and miahallen are safe.
Sascha, it's just not possible, you can never get a fail safe system, as someone else already said everything is built with a higher security level but an earthquake with a strength of almost 9 on the Richter scale is incredibly strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
In fact, I don't think this is the right place and time to discuss about reactor safety, I'm sure Japanese engineers are doing their best to keep harm away from the people, all we can do is hope for the best and pray for them.
just a matter of cost, and i dont think its astronomical...Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
and sorry, when it comes to preventing melt downs these costs are not only justified but should be mandatory... even with HUGE safety spendings nuclear fission is still very affordable when compared to other energy sources!
btw, its official, japan admits reactor2 in fukushima1 has melted down... :(
true...Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Dan
best wishes to japan! hope all goes well!
EDIT: oh the irony...
this plant was built in the 1960s and was originally supposed to be shut down... one week ago... :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushi...ar_Power_Plant
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv - NHK-TV stream in english.
Here's another link, provided by CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/video/flashLi...stream3&hpt=T1
cnn link works, thanks...
outside fukushima radiation levels are almost 10.000 times stronger than considered safe... definitively a melt down :S
Ceasium and Iodine detected outside of the reactor... :S
Hey what does the ceasium and iodine mean :/?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
10,000 holy cow :/
I was safe.
thank you for your kindness.
:bows:
I hope its the anti-nuclear actvists blowing the whistle, as i have read they are arguing on the cause - if its the venting or core. Still hope inner core is intact.
BBC news said that the radioactivity was 1000x times higher. No evidence of meltdown yet. Aftershock of 6 richter has hit that area
The metal capsul surrounding the inner core is intact, dont let the sometimes very clueless media blow numbers out of propertion.
For a normal person 10000 sounds like a lot, but unless you understand the context it dont really matter what the number is... but in the media 10000 is a big number that sells headlines
Ps: I am not saying that everything is wonderful, only that people should hear what the really known people have to say about it and all I have read is that its (Considering the situation) pretty much going well.
Yet still it is not a pleasent thing....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech0z
Do you have source on the intact btw..? I hope you are right, fear the consequences if you are not, would be terrible.
Yea so far there's been no serious reported leakage, of what I read the current reported figures are something corresponding to a person normally exposured to during one year as a person staying 1 hour outside the reactor which still is nothing of significant danger to what if the reactor actually was meltdown. Be careful when you read the media, the figures are quickly blown out of proportion.
+1 on the above.
Looks like the steam purging and the hydrogen explosion took out some radiation from the "clean" cooling system. Years worth of radiation is bad. But it could be much-much worse.
Build started 1967 and it took 8,8/8,9 earthquake - kudos to Japan.
They are going to use seawater to cool the reactor. Filling it will take anywhere from 5 to 10 hours, while the actual cooling might take as much as 10 days. Let's hope this ends well!
I read a danish enginering site where they discuss the situation http://translate.google.dk/translate...atomkraftvaerk (Not the best translation for example "The temperature rises are still unknown, but authorities consider it "very unlikely" that the fuel rods are fused or are busy with it. " Should be "very likely"Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Beier
man things are just getting wost it seems
Just before.......
6.4 magnitude aftershock hits near stricken Fukushima nuclear plant, USGS and local media report
also :(
Officials: Nearly 9,500 people unaccounted for in the town of Minamisanriku
Sorry saaya, here is the correct report here in the newsQuote:
Originally Posted by saaya
At the Fukushima plant, the amount of radiation reached around 1,000 times the normal level in the control room of the No. 1 reactor, and 140 times the normal level near the main gate of the plant at one point.
also every 20 to 30 minutes we are getting aftershocks, "Big aftershock right now. Screen shaking as I type."
dctokyo - thank you, this concerns us all.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/77171.html
better take it directly form japan, than any of the us,eu media who play fear mongering/sensation game right now.
Quote:
Japanese authorities have confirmed there was an explosion at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant Saturday afternoon but it did not occur at its troubled No. 1 reactor, top government spokesman Yukio Edano said.
The chief Cabinet secretary also told an urgent press conference that the operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., has confirmed there is no damage to the steel container housing the reactor.
Edano said the 3:36 p.m. explosion caused the roof and the walls of the building housing the reactor's container to be blown off. He said there has been no serious damage to the steel container of the reactor.
The blast occurred as vapor from the container turned into hydrogen and mixed with outside oxygen, he added.
Year thats the stuff I read on the danish site I linked to, and it sounds like its going well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
And of all countries I think we should be glad it happend to Japan, I think they are the most well prepared country for this kind of accident.
Good to hear my friend Duck San :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by duck
:OQuote:
Originally Posted by saaya
That is more relieving information than what I have read so far. Good to hear in a way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Stay safe and look after each other Japanese people!
I actually subscripe to Ingeniøren, hmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech0z
Was thinking of the inner core part, I cannot find much valid sources on if it is intact or not.
EDIT;
Just read the article, in Danish ofc... hehe...
I hope it is correct data.
Live feed's here, but they are in Japanese
TBS-TV http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tbstv
NHK-TV http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-gtv2
Earth Quake,Tsunami and now this potential nuke situation. can it get worse for Japan :( RIP to the dead :( our thoughts are with you - Japanese people
This article looks more informative and less sensationalist than what I've read so far about the subject, thanks for sharing :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
It's very difficult to tell what's a realistic assessment of the situation from what's a steaming pile of horse manure when one doesn't have a degree on physics and civil engineering...
UPDATE
Japan nuclear agency rates nuclear plant accident in Fukushima at 4 on 0-7 international scale.
The 1986 Chernobyl disaster was rated 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale; the 1979 Three Mile Island accident was rated 5
update
Some more: The International Nuclear Event Scale was developed in 1990 by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). The rating of 4 for the Fukushima plant incident comes from an as yet unidentified official at Japan's nuclear safety agency,
update
Japanese authorities are making plans to distribute stable iodine, a treatment to prevent radiation poisoning, to residents near two damaged nuclear plants,
WoW, I don't know about that.
Might be they are trying to keep everyone calm. When the side of a building blows off I take that as pretty serious. There might be much more going on then they are telling everyone.
That's my fears... Some might argue that Japan is a democracy and not to compared to certain states but that's not an argument that such things don't happen :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye
So you rather want to believe the Japanese media that takes a lot of the information from state officials that want to keep their people calm? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Things might also be a lot worse than what is public right now... :(