Feser's New Lineup

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Originally Posted by Erklat

Why being so defensive? For example I value EK products as subjectively the best (except rads). I value your StealthRes even more. I think that you
have more than enough approval and gratitude from the community here. Prolly it's hard to make a living out of that, but if you are intrinsic motivated person
you should feel great for the joy you induced in the community with your great products. Just because I stated I can't afford $40 of coolant every now and
then when I get merely the same with your $6 chunk of silver, doesn't mean your products aren't worth the price asked. StealthRes is imho.

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Erm, I wasn't being defensive at all... :confused:

The comment I was responding to wasn't attacking me, so there wasn't anything for me to defend against.

I believe you missed the point I was trying to make, which had nothing to do with me other than giving an example... and you'll notice I gave the same example using a different company, HK, as well.


The point was that many times when people think a product is overpriced, it could in fact be underpriced.

My point also was that we have no idea what Feser's costs are, and until we do, we can't say they're trying to rip people off. We can say that their price is too high for the market, but there is a HUGE difference between the two.

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Originally Posted by iandh

We can say that their price is too high for the market, but there is a HUGE difference between the two.

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From business point of view, there's very little point in releasing evolutionary product if the production cost it very high - it reduces the potential numbers of customers and therefore reduces the profit margins because of competition with less advanced substitute products which provide similar effect for much lesser price. Frequently, company hold off releasing a product for that reason - they wait until a cheaper way to produce the product to be able to compete and make money.

Now, there's is of course niche products that carry a hefty price tag because there's very few people interested and prices are high due to lower production volume. However, watercooling is already a niche market and creating a niche market within a niche market, shall we say, pointless? Again, from a business point of view, because aiming a select group of individuals within select group of individuals reduces the profits even further, leading to even higher prices.

So I'm guessing: prices will be VERY high, partly because it's expensive produce, and partly because it's aimed at a tiny narrow group of people within another small group of people, so profit markup on each will be higher than usual. Feser WILL rip people off, but then watercoolers are used to it, because every watercooling manufacturer does it. The only difference is proportion - some do more and some less, but all are a rip off compared to what's happening in a mass produced air cooling market ;)

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

What I think is funny is that even when the research money is available for advanced concepts for heat rejection for things like advanced fuel cells and space applications, heat pipes, louvered fins, and microchannels are what they use. Of course, there are expensive tweaks which increase efficiency like advanced materials or extensive optimizaation but essentially that is state of the art I think. This is part of the reason why I'm really curious about this launch and especially with the claims above.

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That was the meaning of my post too. Cray dont mind one second about costs. They are providing the most powerful computing solutions on earth (along with NEC and IBM), i dont think they would cut corners on anything. The cooling system used for the Jaguar for instance is a very interesting design, but again i see fins and microchannels... I know the army use watercooling on some equipments, they have specialist engineers who develop full board WB's for their rackable computer boards, those look a lot like what EK does.
I have seen that kind of tube rad (from what i guess on limited photos we have for now) but it was for liquid-to-liquid heat exchangers, not liquid-to-air. As air has a very very low density and heat capacity (well, compared to water), the heat transfer coefficient has to be improved by huge surface area, and that where fins come in. I'm curious to see a proper closeup of their tubes, what counts is the total surface area exposed to airflow, and of course the air flow itself.
(edit) and what kind of exchangers are there on the Bugatti Veyron for example ? We know they spared no expense on R&D on that project and selling the cars almost at cost, just for them being technological demonstrators.

Interesting.

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Originally Posted by anzial

From business point of view, there's very little point in releasing evolutionary product if the production cost it very high - it reduces the potential numbers of customers and therefore reduces the profit margins because of competition with less advanced substitute products which provide similar effect for much lesser price. Frequently, company hold off releasing a product for that reason - they wait until a cheaper way to produce the product to be able to compete and make money.

Now, there's is of course niche products that carry a hefty price tag because there's very few people interested and prices are high due to lower production volume. However, watercooling is already a niche market and creating a niche market within a niche market, shall we say, pointless? Again, from a business point of view, because aiming a select group of individuals within select group of individuals reduces the profits even further, leading to even higher prices.

So I'm guessing: prices will be VERY high, partly because it's expensive produce, and partly because it's aimed at a tiny narrow group of people within another small group of people, so profit markup on each will be higher than usual. Feser WILL rip people off, but then watercoolers are used to it, because every watercooling manufacturer does it. The only difference is proportion - some do more and some less, but all are a rip off compared to what's happening in a mass produced air cooling market ;)

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You don't seem to have gotten my point... you can not say a company is ripping someone off unless you know their exact production cost and profit margin. There is just no way to know.

They could barely be breaking even with a product that costs twice the market average. If a company is barely breaking even, how are they ripping people off?

It appears that you are using the term ripoff to refer to when a product costs more than other products that perform the same function... that is a common misnomer, but it is not the case. A ripoff is a form of fraud, intentionally overpricing a product to "steal" money from your customers.

Since we do not know Feser's production cost, we can not determine whether they are ripping people off.

I agree with IandH , I own my own place and when you use quality goods you can not price it at a lower cost , there is too many variables that come into play .. Ex: a supermarket can sell snapples for cheap due to such bulk but a small pizzeria like in my case I can not sell as low as a supermarket , some people say we cost too much but then some people buy it anyways :) If you don't own your own company then you never really will know what it'd like plain and simple . Now let's move on and wait for results please :) ..

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Originally Posted by Aedubber

If you don't own your own company then you never really will know what its like plain and simple

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really? sounds a little black and white.

Ya really , no offense but that's how it is .. I'm not trying to defend anyones case here but you don't know what it's like unless you are the man writing out the checks for your company and for your own personal life as well .

The whole things pretty simple, if you don't want to pay the price then don't. I personally think Rolexs are overpriced and a rip off however I don't go spamming the forums about it, I just don't buy one.

Value is always subjective and what is a fair price to one person is completely outrageous to another. Fesser is free to run their business how they like and you as a customer are free to not buy their products. However, I don't understand the benefit in complaining about them over and over again, values vary from individual to individual so who am I to say what is a good value for everyone?

Back on topic: It'll be interesting to see if they can improve on the current radiator design. Personally I don't see it but I'm not a thermal engineer so I'll wait and see.

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Originally Posted by churchy

BTW, lately all we see in LC - fine tuning / slow evolution. Imho it's worth to start some new thread with brainstorming of what can be made to radically change some component to enhance it's performance (or radically slash price for same level of performance). Some ideas outside simple ideas like silver instead of copper, even smaller micropins/microchannels, more powerful pumps, more rads and such. I don't like current stagnating state in this hobby and i'm doubtful in these rads breaking the ice of status quo. What can be improved with waterblocks? What with pumps? What with rads? Eg. it was interesting to read one recent thread about non centrifugal pumps (i forgot the term how they were called though), that could do way more pressure then most common LC centrifugal pumps. Or thinking about basics for waterblocks - what are theoretically best in taking heat, and how one can make one more close to that theoretical (eg. thickness of base) without compromising other things (eg. mechanical rigidity), or what else except micropins or microchannels can be used to enhance turbulence or enlarge heat exchange area and still is technologically simple enough to make. How about old idea of TEC + waterblock? Anything but to get out of current swamp of microgains by slowed down evolution.

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if you asked someone 7 years ago if they went watercooling so it would
A. Have bling factor
B. put a 480 rad in their case
C. not use worm clamps

they would think you were craaaaaaazy! watercooling used to be Uggggly, with Heatercores, 80mm fans, worm clams ftw!!! i think in 7 years the technology has gotten there, but the looks omg. the facelift that's gone on for watercooled rigs is AMAZING!! it went from 12ft pole to the hottest dame on the street. so i don't really think of anything happening now as stagnating or w/e but that's just my opinion : ) i rarely make new loops or rigs i wait till they self destruct or i get a new computer.. which has been over 4 years :). i personally think the companies are doing quite a good job.. but i don't look at it as a Quarterly Thing.

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Originally Posted by rocket733

The whole things pretty simple, if you don't want to pay the price then don't. I personally think Rolexs are overpriced and a rip off however I don't go spamming the forums about it, I just don't buy one.

Value is always subjective and what is a fair price to one person is completely outrageous to another. Fesser is free to run their business how they like and you as a customer are free to not buy their products. However, I don't understand the benefit in complaining about them over and over again, values vary from individual to individual so who am I to say what is a good value for everyone?

Back on topic: It'll be interesting to see if they can improve on the current radiator design. Personally I don't see it but I'm not a thermal engineer so I'll wait and see.

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:clap: Now that is how it is done.

I have seen Mobo threads where a someone gets a lemon and whines about it for over a year :shrug:

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Originally Posted by turtletrax

:clap: Now that is how it is done.

I have seen Mobo threads where a someone gets a lemon and whines about it for over a year :shrug:

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If I get a lemon mobo, that sucker goes in the trash and I go to Fry's or Microcenter and move on with my life.:shrug:

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Originally Posted by rocket733

The whole things pretty simple, if you don't want to pay the price then don't. I personally think Rolexs are overpriced and a rip off however I don't go spamming the forums about it, I just don't buy one.

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:ROTF: Great post! :up:

^^^ OHHHH dazmodEEE !!! Hey i ordered 2 EK gtx460 Waterblocks from you guys, DAMN that was some fast shipping! Thank you!

Thanks Aedubber! Come back again. :)

On topic: ... nothing comes in mind...

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Originally Posted by iandh

If I get a lemon mobo, that sucker goes in the trash and I go to Fry's or Microcenter and move on with my life.:shrug:

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That's quality control or variations in production. That's not lying to your customers or falsely hyping a product.

Take the T3 for example - should we really not have screamed? Or that monstrosity from Asus a few years ago. Or the koolance plugs that rust or mixed metals in other gear. I gotta give waterlogged credit for pointing things like this out. Sometimes it's over done, but it's done. Regardless, this is completely different than a lemon motherboard or hot cpu, IMO anyway.

Also, your res's are not overpriced - they are quality! Rolexes are watches... seriously a $10k watch... but they don't make false claims that I know of. Could you imagine getting a lemon Rolex?

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Originally Posted by gmat

That was the meaning of my post too. Cray dont mind one second about costs. They are providing the most powerful computing solutions on earth (along with NEC and IBM), i dont think they would cut corners on anything. The cooling system used for the Jaguar for instance is a very interesting design, but again i see fins and microchannels... I know the army use watercooling on some equipments, they have specialist engineers who develop full board WB's for their rackable computer boards, those look a lot like what EK does.
I have seen that kind of tube rad (from what i guess on limited photos we have for now) but it was for liquid-to-liquid heat exchangers, not liquid-to-air. As air has a very very low density and heat capacity (well, compared to water), the heat transfer coefficient has to be improved by huge surface area, and that where fins come in. I'm curious to see a proper closeup of their tubes, what counts is the total surface area exposed to airflow, and of course the air flow itself.
(edit) and what kind of exchangers are there on the Bugatti Veyron for example ? We know they spared no expense on R&D on that project and selling the cars almost at cost, just for them being technological demonstrators.

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For avionics testing, we use simple cold plates. Ducted air is also used - very simple solutions but the purpose is just to keep the hardware within spec. I've also seen full board blocks on boards that consisted of a coldplate plus gap filler (looks like a really big thermal pad). Server rooms have large dedicated AC units.

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Originally Posted by iandh

You don't seem to have gotten my point... you can not say a company is ripping someone off unless you know their exact production cost and profit margin. There is just no way to know.

They could barely be breaking even with a product that costs twice the market average. If a company is barely breaking even, how are they ripping people off?

It appears that you are using the term ripoff to refer to when a product costs more than other products that perform the same function... that is a common misnomer, but it is not the case. A ripoff is a form of fraud, intentionally overpricing a product to "steal" money from your customers.

Since we do not know Feser's production cost, we can not determine whether they are ripping people off.

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Not to mention time spent researching & developing a product. Pricey yes, ripoff no. And even if they chose to sell a product for twice of what it cost to produce it, I really don't see that as a ripoff either.

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

Also, your res's are not overpriced - they are quality! Rolexes are watches... seriously a $10k watch... but they don't make false claims that I know of. Could you imagine getting a lemon Rolex?

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I work in Switzerland and if i ask the local watches amateurs what they think about Rolex i can learn swiss "coloured language" ;) I'm no watch amateur myself but from what i hear they are nowhere near the quality chronograph watches made by local manufacturers, which are themselves expensive but not as much as Rolex.. The difference lies in marketing and "image de marque".

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

For avionics testing, we use simple cold plates. Ducted air is also used - very simple solutions but the purpose is just to keep the hardware within spec. I've also seen full board blocks on boards that consisted of a coldplate plus gap filler (looks like a really big thermal pad).

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Interesting. But in avionics dont you profit from a great natural airflow by chance ? This would compensate the lesser surface area of exchange.

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

Server rooms have large dedicated AC units.

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I know right, but that's a generality. IBM does watercooled server rooms where the whole room heat is transferred to water then carried out, and even watercooled servers. The Cray Jaguar uses a phase change system for each rack. I know they dont have the same considerations as us (dissipation in a smaller surface area with less noise) although car manufacturers have similar concerns, they have to transfer a lot of heat in a limited volume with limited airflow conditions. That's why i mentioned the Veyron (or other supercars would fit) as it has like 11 radiators, i guess if they could save weight or amount of radiators by increasing efficiency they would have done it.

Its very easy for us to pass judgment on a company we dont run... Waterlooged, yes Feser may have used some questionable tactics in their marketing, however it may have been the product of an over zealous owner rather than a crooked minded thief. Thanks for pointing out the facts and insuring new users are made aware of the dangers in blindly following marketing hype, however there is a fine line between "informing the ignorant" and "beating a dead horse." The fact that you are bashing a company on a product not yet released leads me to believe you are just being a hater, which unfortunately discredits your credibility. Let the radiator get released and reviewed and let the facts speak for themselves. We might just be pleasantly surprised.

Looking at the design, I doubt round tubes will ever outperform flat tubes in terms of surface area. However, after looking over this great link/PDF: http://www.wieland-thermalsolutions....ohrewat_08.pdf, I saw some round tubes with fins INSIDE. Im not sure how much this cost, however, this design could certainly rival flat tubes. However again, I dont think this alone will be able to surpass flat tubing to the point of obsolescence. Unless Feser is able to really really REALLY come out on top in terms of performance, or keep production cost down, I dont see this as becoming a new fad. I think it would have been better for Feser to keep the Xchanger and release this rad in conjunction, phasing out the Xchanger as the Admiral series becomes popular.

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Originally Posted by StAndrew

Looking at the design, I doubt round tubes will ever outperform flat tubes in terms of surface area. However, after looking over this great link/PDF: http://www.wieland-thermalsolutions....ohrewat_08.pdf, I saw some round tubes with fins INSIDE. Im not sure how much this cost, however, this design could certainly rival flat tubes. However again, I dont think this alone will be able to surpass flat tubing to the point of obsolescence.

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if you look at the pictures you can see that it is a hybrid of both flat tubes and round tubes.

you can see "normal" finned rad behind the tubes. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by StAndrew

However, after looking over this great link/PDF: http://www.wieland-thermalsolutions....ohrewat_08.pdf, I saw some round tubes with fins INSIDE.

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Thanks for the link:up:, I had no idea there were soo many tube/fin options out there...I wouldn't mind having a roll of that to plumb my whole system in..:D

Dazmode has a Canadian watercooling store and he has some pics of the retail box allong with a guestimate on price. I PMed him and he said he cant see the single being more than $99 CAD and also said he doesnt see them being more than the X-Changers on release.

http://www.dazmode.com/store/index.p...roducts_id=871

On the box you can see "nano" something in the print. I wonder what that is? I hope it is not marketing hype (please wait until Skinnee reviews).

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Originally Posted by iandh

You don't seem to have gotten my point...

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And you've missed mine. I'm just thinking from business point of view - there's no point in releasing product and pricing it at cost, i.e. not earning anything on it. There's such practice as dumping but it's really not an option in such a small market as watercooling. I mean, unless its priced below competition (which it won't) with the goal of kicking everyone else out of radiator manufacturing business, I bet you a $100 against $1 they are getting a profit, and it will be a nice profit (of course, it's a safe bet as we'll never know what are the profit margins/production costs). Admiral line is clearly aimed at very small group of people who either fall for bling-bling or value performance advantage above everything else (at this point its not clear, which one it is).

Again, this is just down-to-earth, common business sense, not some abstract scenario like you are proposing. I've got nothing against Feser but based on its past behavior, they are clearly profit-oriented and not enthusiasts like you, who go into business to produce high-quality products and sell them at near cost without earning much profit (which is not to say you don't want to make money but you don't seem to possess corporate american mentality where profit margins reign supreme).

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Originally Posted by StAndrew

Its very easy for us to pass judgment on a company we dont run... Waterlooged, yes Feser may have used some questionable tactics in their marketing, however it may have been the product of an over zealous owner rather than a crooked minded thief. Thanks for pointing out the facts and insuring new users are made aware of the dangers in blindly following marketing hype, however there is a fine line between "informing the ignorant" and "beating a dead horse." The fact that you are bashing a company on a product not yet released leads me to believe you are just being a hater, which unfortunately discredits your credibility. Let the radiator get released and reviewed and let the facts speak for themselves. We might just be pleasantly surprised.

Looking at the design, I doubt round tubes will ever outperform flat tubes in terms of surface area. However, after looking over this great link/PDF: http://www.wieland-thermalsolutions....ohrewat_08.pdf, I saw some round tubes with fins INSIDE. Im not sure how much this cost, however, this design could certainly rival flat tubes. However again, I dont think this alone will be able to surpass flat tubing to the point of obsolescence. Unless Feser is able to really really REALLY come out on top in terms of performance, or keep production cost down, I dont see this as becoming a new fad. I think it would have been better for Feser to keep the Xchanger and release this rad in conjunction, phasing out the Xchanger as the Admiral series becomes popular.

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Not sure what happened to the first time I posted this but here goes again.

*sigh* Mind enlightening me as to what you read as "bashing"? I've said absolutely nothing negative about this product so far but, I will if it'll make all of you feel better. :rolleyes:

As for the PDF, yes, there are some interesting things in it and those "internal fins" is actually rifling that supposedly promotes turbulence within the tube.

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Originally Posted by anzial

And you've missed mine. I'm just thinking from business point of view - there's no point in releasing product and pricing it at cost, i.e. not earning anything on it. There's such practice as dumping but it's really not an option in such a small market as watercooling. I mean, unless its priced below competition (which it won't) with the goal of kicking everyone else out of radiator manufacturing business, I bet you a $100 against $1 they are getting a profit, and it will be a nice profit (of course, it's a safe bet as we'll never know what are the profit margins/production costs). Admiral line is clearly aimed at very small group of people who either fall for bling-bling or value performance advantage above everything else (at this point its not clear, which one it is).

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And I'm not? I've run a successful watercooling business for nearly four years.

My original point still stands... we can not tell if a company is ripping anyone off, unless we know their production cost.

If one company's retail price is higher than another company's retail price for a given product, it does not mean they have a higher profit margin.

I didn't imply anywhere in any of my posts that Feser wasn't profiting... all I said was we have no way of knowing how much they're profiting.

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Originally Posted by anzial

Again, this is just down-to-earth, common business sense, not some abstract scenario like you are proposing. I've got nothing against Feser but based on its past behavior, they are clearly profit-oriented and not enthusiasts like you, who go into business to produce high-quality products and sell them at near cost without earning much profit (which is not to say you don't want to make money but you don't seem to possess corporate american mentality where profit margins reign supreme).

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What part of my scenario is abstract?

Also, any business is profit oriented... some more than others. I probably fall towards the lesser end of the scale. Feser may fall towards the greater end of the scale, but none of us have any way to tell unless the owner chose to open his books for all to see.

edit: I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I have no way of telling who is right or wrong, and neither does anyone else, besides an educated guess. I know for a fact that some products in this industry have HORRIBLE margins, and I've heard it straight from the horse's mouth. I also know that some products have AMAZING margins... and it's almost impossible to guess sometimes which is which.

Anzial - Do you own your own company ? I'm just curious ...

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Originally Posted by NKrader

if you look at the pictures you can see that it is a hybrid of both flat tubes and round tubes.

you can see "normal" finned rad behind the tubes. :shrug:

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You can see they do coiled heat exchangers with those finned tubes.
But the fins inside will promote water->copper heat transfer, alright. What about copper->air heat transfer ? Isnt that the most critical part for our applications ?

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Originally Posted by gmat

You can see they do coiled heat exchangers with those finned tubes.
But the fins inside will promote water->copper heat transfer, alright. What about copper->air heat transfer ? Isnt that the most critical part for our applications ?

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both are equally as important, but I'm also curious about the performance of these rads, it looks like they really have sacrificed a lot of the copper to air surface area, but I'll save final judgment for when I see some numbers

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Originally Posted by NKrader

if you look at the pictures you can see that it is a hybrid of both flat tubes and round tubes.

you can see "normal" finned rad behind the tubes. :shrug:

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I do not see the hybrid that you're talking about. I do not see flat tubes.

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Originally Posted by gmat

Interesting. But in avionics dont you profit from a great natural airflow by chance ? This would compensate the lesser surface area of exchange.

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No airflow, not in this application. The cold plates are used for bench testing to keep hardware in spec for extended periods of operation. Actual operational time is very short.

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

From the images, it doesn't look like there are any "fins", those bulges are part of the copper(?) tubes.

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errrr maybe they took something simular to gabe's air sink design?

it looks like they used a simular methodology as this guy here:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...e/IMG_0501.jpg

instead of fins, it looks like the pipes have been invidually made so they would get a greater surface area at a smaller foot print.

Problem with this design i see tho, it looks like its gonna break a new record in how overpriced a radiator can be.

evolution costs money ... speculate as much as you like but until its out and ppl have played with it just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Huh, something just occurred to me I wonder if anybody ever tried it Single direction rad , Fill it vertically with Small Offset triangular ( to Cause turbulence and direct airflow) tubes. It would only work in one direction. But might work ?

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Originally Posted by mlwood37

evolution costs money ... speculate as much as you like but until its out and ppl have played with it just sit back and enjoy the ride.

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Looks expensive as hell tho. :P

Holy cow... that was a giant leap to patent infringement.

LOL but that other link shows its not really a infringement.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...onal/tubes.png

Meh... still think its a copy on swiftech's helicoid patent.

the tubes look a little large to accomplish the same thing swiftech is doing

I'm thinking GEWA-HB, but rifled or stuffed with a mesh.

And I'd speculate that it could work great until it reaches saturation.

Still not ruling out revolutionary though...

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Meh... still think its a copy on swiftech's helicoid patent.

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You're a ding-dong, there is no way those two designs are similar other than the fact that the have cylindrical components.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

errrr maybe they took something simular to gabe's air sink design?

it looks like they used a simular methodology as this guy here:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...e/IMG_0501.jpg

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I'd like to see that sealed in With a side inlet and Top outlet and see what happens ;-)

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Originally Posted by MagisD

I'd like to see that sealed in With a side inlet and Top outlet and see what happens ;-)

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It's called. . .corrosion. :p: :rofl:

:eek:

Anyone thought of this? How about using them premixes with Admiral series rads? :shocked:

We have this:

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Feser One - the only coolant you will ever need!

Perfecting the way you cool your system, safely and paving the way to the future.

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And we have this:

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THese will be crowned king of all PC Radiators and all the hoopla of who has the best radiator will be put to an end finally when these are released.

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And we all know how safe their premixes are. Now how could they possibly do a fair thing, which would be an announcement that one of their products is not advisable to
use with the other? :p:
And how would you clean them inside fins after this happens? You wouldn't. Not without a jigsaw, you wouldn't. :D

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

It's called. . .corrosion. :p: :rofl:

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HEHEHEHEEH with lets say Silver pins or Non corrosive elements , humm maybe if Pins Were swirled into more of a corkscrew shape. flow in on the bottom and around and around the pins on its way up and out .


Ohh that would be insane .. inside the feser tubes .... a giant corkscrew flow.

So when are they going to open the website up more and shows us this new stuff. it's nearly the end of the month!!

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Originally Posted by Tetrafluorometh

So when are they going to open the website up more and shows us this new stuff. it's nearly the end of the month!!

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http://www.dazmode.com/store/index.p...&cPath=154_155

Looks like they wont be available until at least the end of October :confused:

No idea when they will actually give info. I hope the give some to Skinnee soon, thats all I really care about.

There (TFC) site says this month. They need to do something. Skinnee you got any info

Nothing new unfortunately... I'll bang some cages and see if I can get any info.

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Originally Posted by MagisD

I'd like to see that sealed in With a side inlet and Top outlet and see what happens ;-)

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years ago people did stuff like that, I remember a guy on forumoc back in the day sealed up an old ocz gladiator heatsink and had solid results, ran it with a huge danner mag 265 watt pump and a pair of 6" bong towers with a picnic cooler as the reservoir

as for this infringing on patents with that heatsink, not even close, 2 different applications, plus as its been pointed out, other companies have done what looks to be similar with watercoolers for other applications.

that said I probably wouldn't buy one based on what they'll likely be priced at, but I'm still interested to see what they bring to the table

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Originally Posted by skinnee

You're a ding-dong

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lol. you tell him skinnee

all photos are here

http://watercooling.fr/forum/materie...ger-t4110.html


strange internal conception , interesting to test !


:D

With all them features they aren't going to be cheap.:(

online the official site http://www.feser-one.com/admiral/ADMIRAL.swf

looks like GEWA-DS it is

damn that site is obnoxious

Keen on the Monsta 785x144x101. I will place this thing on the roof to look just what has been advertised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryan92084

damn that site is obnoxious

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You can say that again.

Well they should be expensive but otherwise when some one ( maybe Skinnee ? ) test them we will see if they're a nice choice or not. But no one can't tell that they don't show us their products like this was going to be the end of the world and only they can save us :rofl: What an epic music on the website.

I was going to wait for the single 140mm radiator since they have the option tu put 120mm or 140mm and the quality seems very good but I got a Black Ice SR-1 140 incoming so it will have to wait but otherwise it doesn't fit on the case LOL so big.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stephanel1345

all photos are here

http://watercooling.fr/forum/materie...ger-t4110.html


strange internal conception , interesting to test !


:D

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Guys, I did a Google translation of this link and the guys there are claiming it's all aluminum. :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoner

online the official site http://www.feser-one.com/admiral/ADMIRAL.swf

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Go to this link and click on them Monsta 700 and listen. I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair.

These better perform better than anything out there or this will go down as the biggest hype/fail product in watercooling history.

The website is so full of fluff. If I was a noob and went to their website I would order one just because of how well the website is put together. Hopefully they aren't counting on these noobs to make a profit.

Lets see some reviews !!!!!!!!! Send me a 120.2 and I'll put it up against my PA 120.2 and I could have a review in less than 24 hours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Guys, I did a Google translation of this link and the guys there are claiming it's all aluminum. :rofl:

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"Actually they are 100% aluminum and the interior is covered with a layer of "nanodevices" (roughly as nickel plating) that keeps the heat transfer intact but prevents any oxidation reduction."

But look at this:

"The new offer "Admiral" radiator TFC seems to consist of 18 models, accompanied by a 10 year warranty."

So I'm not really sure they will give that amount of warranty years if they were not sure that this will not cause any problems.

Give them a chance, I'm not really sure about why there are too many Haters of this brand . ¿Do they caused you any problem? :confused: I'm asking because I cant understand that amount of hate from someones.

Ouch. I dont think I will be touching them for a while until the internal plating is proved to hold up over time. No way I am tossing them in my Murdermod that will be hell to disassemble because the plating failed.

I had high hopes for something new and hope that isnt dashed by Alu :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guilleguillaume

"Actually they are 100% aluminum and the interior is covered with a layer of "nanodevices" (roughly as nickel plating) that keeps the heat transfer intact but prevents any oxidation reduction."

But look at this:

"The new offer "Admiral" radiator TFC seems to consist of 18 models, accompanied by a 10 year warranty."

So I'm not really sure they will give that amount of warranty years if they were not sure that this will not cause any problems.

Give them a chance, I'm not really sure about why there are too many Haters of this brand . ¿Do they caused you any problem? :confused: I'm asking because I cant understand that amount of hate from someones.

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if they do turn out to be all aluminum and cause problems the warrenty won't help all your blocks that get corroded. but that french article could have just misinterpreted the aluminum housing quote from the site.

mhmh but i read the frame is in aluminium not the tube... or not?

http://www.monsterup.com/upload/1283686659614.png

Holy moses guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoner

mhmh but i read the frame is in aluminium not the tube... or not?

http://www.monsterup.com/upload/1283686659614.png

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Thats good news. I thought we were past the Alu days ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guilleguillaume

"Actually they are 100% aluminum and the interior is covered with a layer of "nanodevices" (roughly as nickel plating) that keeps the heat transfer intact but prevents any oxidation reduction."

But look at this:

"The new offer "Admiral" radiator TFC seems to consist of 18 models, accompanied by a 10 year warranty."

So I'm not really sure they will give that amount of warranty years if they were not sure that this will not cause any problems.

Give them a chance, I'm not really sure about why there are too many Haters of this brand . ¿Do they caused you any problem? :confused: I'm asking because I cant understand that amount of hate from someones.

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My comment has nothing to do with hating the brand but rather the lackluster transfer of heat the aluminum has compared to copper. That and everything else these days is made from copper/brass just make aluminum a really stupid decision. The Nano plating inside the tubes does indeed suggest these may very well be made from all aluminum, including the tubes. We'll have to see how well that Nano plating works for them, my guess is we'll see ppl start complaining within 2-2½ years about "funky things" on their blocks. My recommendation is, if you use any of these rads, go all nickel plating to reduce the risk of being one of those ppl.

Hehe...love the voice "Holy Moly!!"...:D

That 5X140 must be freaking HUGE!! Who's going to make the first case for one..:)

We'll see on the performance after Skinnee gives it a work over. Aluminum does bother me too in regard to corrosion potential, lots of examples of where plating simply wasn't 100% on past blocks, etc, but maybe they figured out a better plating process. Aluminum actually has better thermal conductivity than the brass and solder-tin(Tubes and bonding). The fins are usually copper, but I suspect its the tubes and soldering interface that becomes the weakest thermal transfer link. I'm still not sure there is enough air contact surface area, but I suppose that's why they are looking at going thicker than standard.

Glad to see something different, I hope it does really well.

If the tubes actually are aluminum, I'd run some sort of corrosion blocker for sure until some long term testing has shown it's ok.

They really planning to rake in big cash with aluminium rads?
BTW, if there is increased heat transfer because of micro roughed internal watertube surface .. won't it mean also that most LC premixed coolants (including theirs) very soon will gunk up all that nano unobtanium layer with resulting performance drop, and unlike from flat surface tubes washing gunk from such surface probably will be much harder?

1: They would not give 10 years of warranty for this unless they had a good reason.

2: They are a German company and that gives me confidence.

3: They have created the Feser X-Changer radiator series which proved to be as good as the leading brand.

4: All Feser products that I've bought up to this day never let me down.

5: It is not like they went to all this without a research. So I would expect at least a initial respect for what they are trying to do.

The new admiral Mosta is getting closer and closer to my system. 10 x 140mm Fans :eek:

2 loops may not be needed anymore. This deserves a great review. Now I'm excited. :)

haha... "700 Holy Moses"

I'm sure the aluminium is just the frame, as it says.

I'm getting a little excited about this - ok so from the description, the tubes are actually 2 tubes cold pressed with swirrrrlees inside, sounds like rifling. I want to see one cut open.

If they turn out to be worth the hype, I got a place for a Monster 420.

Sept is about over, when do they hit stores?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spotswood

A 140x5! :shocked:

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And then you realize there will never be an end to building humongous cases :rofl:. Just when you thought your case owned because it can fit all rads, this gets released :ROTF:.

I almost forgot how small some cases are... Bought a Rosewill Challenger for my sons pc budget build thinking...yeah I could probably throw a triple or my old bonnie heatercore in there....not to sure now. We get spoiled with the tech stations and monster cases, but we like it that way..:D

[QUOTE=Martinm210;4564546]

That 5X140 must be freaking HUGE!! Who's going to make the first case for one..:)

QUOTE]

Danger Den will make a case for anything. They will do custom orders on anything you can think of. For a price of course and they are super friendly when you talk to them on the phone and are really helpful when planning out whatever you have in mind. I had them build a custom UV blue Rad box for the bottom of my computer and the process was really easy and smooth.

Answer: Mountain Mods...

So aluminum in the frame, right? None gets in the water like the aluminum reservoirs *bleagh* do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottALot

So aluminum in the frame, right? None gets in the water like the aluminum reservoirs *bleagh* do.

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That is my understanding from the information I have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

That is my understanding from the information I have.

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exactly what information do you have? :D

The “TurboWhirl Enhancement” sounds like a possibility for a significant water-tube inner surface convection enhancement by means of reducing the skin effect. This has been done in automotive and aircraft industry for quite some time, but I’ve never heard of it being implemented in computer watercooling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spotswood

$97 USD for a 120.1. :shakes:

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I talked to Daz about that and he said that is his preliminary guess at the cost. He just wanted shopbots to start seeing the price and product. He said he was quite confident that prices would fall directly in line with the original X-Changer release price, which or course will not make people happy either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tex707

The “TurboWhirl Enhancement” sounds like a possibility for a significant water-tube inner surface convection enhancement by means of reducing the skin effect. This has been done in automotive and aircraft industry for quite some time, but I’ve never heard of it being implemented in computer watercooling.

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I think it is easy to say that allot of people are interested in how this all pans out. I know I am. I really do hope this can spark a change in how things are done and perhaps shave a few degrees or more. As long as it is something new, and actually performs well, I will be very interested.

I will be watching Skinnee's review like a hawk, along with everyone else.

I shall be getting my hands on one of these so that my revision 2 rad stands will be compatible. :)

They are alu. Sad days. Feser say they rough up the molicules to stop them mis-behaving. I'm not convinced.

http://hw-lab.com/feser-admiral-radi...ntroduced.html

Ninja edit://
Hey look - first post. Must have registered ages ago and never contritubed - apologies and hi all.

Blergh Al throughout. Do not want. Just ask Swiftech - no amount of fancy tech can overcome the fact that chemistry's a female dog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris Beard

They are alu. Sad days. Feser say they rough up the molicules to stop them mis-behaving. I'm not convinced.

http://hw-lab.com/feser-admiral-radi...ntroduced.html

Ninja edit://
Hey look - first post. Must have registered ages ago and never contritubed - apologies and hi all.

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Thanks for the link:up:

Then my soapbox statement:

I really wish we would see more SCIENCE and COMPARATIVE TEST RESULTS with all NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENTS

I would think there was testing on this in the development of it...so where is it? Why not share with the public? Why do we have to WAIT??

I know I've never been very patient...

OK, I'll go to my corner now..:D

this nano coating on molecular level will make a real revolution in watercooling, just imagine that from now never corrosion will happen if mix copper with alu

want tests

It is hilarious how a pre-release radiator has the same sort of FUD campaign as an NV/ATI pre-release. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skinnee

It is hilarious how a pre-release radiator has the same sort of FUD campaign as an NV/ATI pre-release. :D

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I agree skinnee. The other thing is it has been going on for months.... :down::down:

I tried feser, i tried real hard... have to pull off a miracle to get me to buy one of these now :shakes:

Aluminum :shakes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Don't tell me there hasn't been testing on this in the development of it...so where is it? Why not share with the public?

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this from development: http://www.feser-one.com/admiral/admiral.swf

Quote:

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Will all this features make any difference in performance compared to what ordinary rads can?
No one know, yet.

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gotta love their own testing!! :)

Quote:

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*It is proved from reliable resource that frames are made of aluminum, however, there is no exact information on tube material. One information source states the tubes are made of aluminum, on the other hand Feser, through third parties, says the tube will be copper.
It is just a matter of time when the truth reveals.
Because of the controversial information about the material that will be used for Admiral radiator manufacturing, all information from TFC/Admiral official site was removed. Instead the following picture appeared:

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Seriously, does anyone really know they're all Al yet. It says frame.

K what's going on? I keep getting reassured that the frame is aluminum and not the channels, but at the same time people keep whining about the aluminum

IS IT IN THE CHANNELS OR NOT?!

EDIT: right as I posted, meanmoes post came up... thanks!

No aluminum in the water path.

Looks like the price is going to be just ridiculous though...


EDIT: hw-labs says that the pricing is going to be double or more the current line... does this mean $300 for a triple? I think that is just stupid.

BTW, i don't get it, is rad weight really that big of issue worth fighting with, or it's just shugarcoating "we couldn't make it all from brass/copper, but let's just call it in some unobtanium mumbo tech name and use aluminium as cheaper material"?
(^ of course if right ones are those saying that it's aluminium water tubes coated with that nano-coating/roughing or raping up or something, if aluminium doesn't touch water anywhere, as in just for outer fins, or if is used only as material for shroud, then no problems)
I accept as given, that case fitted with all the LC components + water will be heavier a lot. Even if rad will be half kilogram lighter then alternatives, imho it doesn't matter in overall picture of 25-30kg.

It's obvious that Feser's going to have no choice but to put their rads in their competitor's price range. Even the most extreme enthusiasts have a conscience, I doubt anyone would buy something for twice as much as the TA's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

Looks like the price is going to be just ridiculous though...


EDIT: hw-labs says that the pricing is going to be double or more the current line... does this mean $300 for a triple? I think that is just stupid.

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What would hw-labs know about pricing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottALot

It's obvious that Feser's going to have no choice but to put their rads in their competitor's price range. Even the most extreme enthusiasts have a conscience, I doubt anyone would buy something for twice as much as the TA's.

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Incorrect.

Example

A. The monsta rad.

B.Custom cut and anodized plates and cases.

C. Sending out allready bought blocks and panels for powder coating to match.

D. MDPC-X

I'm guilty of at least 2 of those its an enthusiastic market. Some people willing to pay for just bling.

Raw cooling power ghetto style my build cost $2000. Nicely done $5000.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

may be future Monstra:
http://www.ural-temz.ru/netcat_files...3fe7a9e074db64

USSR innovation in 196x

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turtletrax

What would hw-labs know about pricing?

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that's fair. I don't know. They seem to have more info than other right now....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagisD

Incorrect.

Example

A. The monsta rad.

B.Custom cut and anodized plates and cases.

C. Sending out allready bought blocks and panels for powder coating to match.

D. MDPC-X

I'm guilty of at least 2 of those its an enthusiastic market. Some people willing to pay for just bling.

Raw cooling power ghetto style my build cost $2000. Nicely done $5000.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

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Yeah but all of that is offered as a performance-weighted premium... (performance in aesthetics, too). Forgive me if I'm the only one who sees it like this, but isn't this just another radiator design to compete with Thermochill, XSPC, and HW-Labs? I can see them making another Monsta off of this easily, so this looks like a baseline to me.

There's monsta in the line up it's like 18 rads total.

Personally I went with swiftech rads. I trust them. And there only ones that would fit: -)

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