Guess they didnt want some 500 watt publicity hehe. Wonder when graphics cards will be subject to "green" laws here in the EU, cant be long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
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Guess they didnt want some 500 watt publicity hehe. Wonder when graphics cards will be subject to "green" laws here in the EU, cant be long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
well, you know what to do now, right? get some of these packed cards and have some fun :p:;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed_X
they are not packed for consumer market but for test labs! No photo, of course, i love my job so much!
ajaidev - no dual card for this year! No GTX 490, no GTX 495, No anything Dual.
They can not release > 300 W cards anyway. Only AIBs can do their own designs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rava6e
There is no need for such laws, because of that. We're already at the limits(130-140 W for the CPU, 300 W for the GPU, except AIBs own designs with 10 GF100 cores and 2500 W TDP if they so please.).
ATX standards also limit the card size, PCI-E standards limit the power draw and CPU socket limits the CPU power draw.
Makes sense to be considering where the market is going. Still a bit disappointing though.
right.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Okey Dokey :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
:rofl:
So my info was incorrect.
edited the rest out. Not called for.
Info changes all the time as companies shift their roadmaps. Many of our contacts were saying exactly the same things about the cards in question so at the time BenchZowner's statement was spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by DosDuoNo
So are there any new dates for the Dual Fermi card?
Seriously do you work for AMD or former ATI?Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
Its seems like you like to throw rocks on the company just as much as charlie and you want them to go under.
In another thread you were ragging on nvidia for somewhat dishonest advertising. When has AMD been really that honest in its GPU advertising lately? Every recent bar graph comparison has never started at 0 but something like .8 to make it look like a 100% improvement over the competition and also the extreme mudslinging is completely ridiculous lately.
Your even spreading your particular brand of venom on other forums.
"If I won the GTX480, and I won't be entering, I'll hawk it off to some idiot who wants to pay for the card and then spend the money on a SSD ... and a 5850."
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/spons.../#post10576572
You must really hate NV if you wouldn't even keep a free card and calling all gtx 480 owners idiots.
he has a point that a 5850 + SSD will give a bigger speed boost compared to just the VGA ;)
Sounds like nvidia have decided to just weather the 40nm storm, I agree with their choice, too far behind on transistor per sq mm to really strike back at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
In what those? And to call people who are willing to buy a gtx 480 idiots, thats too far.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmke
My feeling is it is not canned. It's just delayed due to market conditions. We will see 2x460 = 490 eventually even as a limited edition card.
it's canned for sure...
Nvidia is going to let AIBs endure the risk and R&D if they want a dual Fermi card. That's what I expect to occur. I could be wrong though, a dual 460 card is entirely possible but I don't know if Nvidia wants to do it or not... Will the R&D < Income? Not likely?
This is the n-th time there's been a rumor about a dual mid-range gpu card, and there's never been one. Possible, yes, likely - no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian
he's been trolling for some time, just let it go. or, better yet, ignore.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
i'm glad nvidia canned this card, it doesn't make sense for them to spend a lot of money and man-hours on a card that will have an increadibly short life span and won't decimate the competition. nvidia needs to spend all of it's time/money improving fremi and getting it ready for a node shrink.
Let's be honest a dual fermi single card at the moment would just have too many issues. Sli will always be faster If you wanted the dual route. Like I've always said for me the 485 is a much more interesting card. You can see fermi scream with potential. A shrink and some tightening up in general is what is needed.
I feel the dual fermi isnt happening because Nvidia cant top the 5970 and there for would rather not be a contest in the dual gpu card this round.
Having the best single chip card is just a settlement at this point realizing ones limitations.
I look forward to a good fight at 28nm.
I know... why are you writing to agree with me then? ;) :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Foyle
ASUS, Gainward or ZOTAC will release something silly :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SamHughe
If a 6970 sees the light of day this year, there is no point in a GF100 dual card on 40nm. The GTX295 made sense. This wouldn't.
Even if they could release a limited run card today that edged out a 5970, I don't see it being worth the fuss for a mere 2 or 3 months of glory because face it these top end flagship cards are generally PR material.
Don't get me wrong, I've owned various top of the line cards from various series over the last few years but in reality the average consumer can't afford one / or its unpratical, it merely draws marketing attention to the brand ( ie we have the fastest possible product thus our products are superior in general ) That said don't take that as me saying there is no place for these type of products. There is and always will be, they just aren't make or break releases. The success of the mid range products are of upmost importance in the end. The 460s success so far is much more important for Nvidia than some dual gpu monster ever would be.
Now depending on the time frame of the next generation releases (and obviously their performance ), a 28nm dual gpu Nvidia sku should have a place worth its silicon but thats another thing altogether :)
That's exactly what i've been saying. Glad we're on the same page. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler
Wat? If I got a 5970 I wouldn't keep it either, I already can't stand the noise a 4870 puts out on automatic fan profile. To me noise is almost 50% of the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
As for mudslinging, I'm not sure I can remember any recent situation where ATI was as vocal as nvidia, especially with the whole fiasco leading up to Fermi (just read Saaya's sig for a run down of that). And as for graphs, I never really agreed with any of them from the start, but I can't recall ever commenting on bar graph scale. If you by chance happen to find one, feel free to point it out and I'll apologize.
So did you google my name, or are you actually part of RFD? You're either a) very butthurt, or b) a Canadian. Ouch on both fronts (tongue in cheek, I'm Canadian too).
Also, I find this whole thing hilarious because the 'ATI killer' made from the new price/perf/watt GF104 CHAMP CHIPS was supposed to be released, but it was completely aborted and instead shifted to super secret OEM sales. I'd like to give OP benefit of the doubt, but with no real proof this seems like a grass roots shilling stunt.
And yeah, I personally think that anyone who would buy a GTX480 for gaming is making a bit of an uninformed choice. 3D is great for making you cross-eyed, and PhysX ... well, PhysX is a bonus but certainly not an incentive. From my perspective (forget about heat), the noise that thing puts out is simply unacceptable. Standard excuses of 'increase volume until gunshots reverberate inside your chest' need not apply here.
My dear, you need to take my quote in context. At that time a GTX480 would have fetched a premium price, enough for a boot SSD + a GFX upgrade. While I clearly have stated that this generation is lackluster, I won't turn down a free upgrade with minimal noise impact. At that time, what GFX could I upgrade too with a good noise footprint? If that statement was made today, I would have changed the 5850 to "5850/GTX460." I probably would've gotten the 460 too, considering it's dead silent and admittedly much better back end support (developer and whatnot). Also I think nvidia has always had superior thermal engineering.
If you look below my name, it should be obvious that I am Canadian and a member of redflagdeals.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
I think your being overly critical on NV and appear to like seeing them fail considering the tone of your posts. Additionally, you seem to turn a blind eye to AMD recent marketing antics which are if anything more recently, more misleading. Bargraphs that show that are manipulated so they make that they are twice as fast as the competition is very misleading and you should be critical for them for that.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2908/4
http://xtreview.com/images/radeon%20...t%20tst10b.png
http://www.dvhardware.net/news/ati_r...ance_slide.jpg
I think we should hope that both company can succeed so we get some competition. Some of the new chiphell leaks are showing that AMD is going to price this generation of cards to their highest yet. A 5970 being out priced by the 6970. Considering that it is already a 700 dollar card, it scary to think how pricey it can get.
But I think recently NV has become rather humble and apologetic. It hasn't been beating its chest as much as say AMD. E.g there whitepaper article at anandtech where they are talking about Fermi. When they had the small fiasco of an announcement of an announcement, they released they had made an error in marketing and apologized. A tolerance for failure comment they realized they had screwed up and are trying to fix things.
The only thing they said in regards to Fermi speed in the past was, the 5870 is fast but not that fast in which it isn't. The problem Fermi wasn't that fast either.
I think for the long term, if you could get them at the same price, a gtx 480 is a better card than a 5870 not so much for its directx 10 performance but its directx 11. Another benefit of Gtx 480 which is very real is they tend to do much better in the way it is meant to be played games.
One more reason is if someone wants top performance, its probably a better value to get two gtx 480 than say two 5970, which due to bad crossfire scaling really don't perform that much better at a significantly higher cost.
Sure it might generate some heat and use alot more power, but honestly power is cheap in canada and its damn cold here especially in saskatchewan.
I don't think I turn a blind eye. The first graph is mobility, and I have thusfar never needed a mobility part so I don't read reviews at all ... except to have a good laugh at a 100W TDP GTX480. Vendor preference or not, that's kinda giggly. But like I said, I don't think I've ever commented on bar graphs from either side, I know how to read them and without knowledge of testing conditions they're useless for anything other than a first approximation.
As for the pricing strategy, as a 'value minded' consumer all I see is this: "my budget is ideally under 200 or around there. What can I get, and will it be worth it?" I have never really been bothered about pricing on flagships (and I don't think I've ever contradicted myself) because I simply don't care. If the card isn't worth it at my budget, I just won't buy it. Judging future pricing strategy based upon projected flagship pricing doesn't really help.
As for heat and power, I don't really get into a knot over it. What I'm worried about is the acoustics that accompany the heat a certain power draw produces. The 4850 was fine because even at high temps that heat generated was low, the heatsink could be small and quiet. But the GTX480 simply nearly overwhelms its cooler (and goes into turbine mode). Acoustics acoustics acoustics. I would never ever use a 5970 or a GTX480, and I probably wouldn't go for a 5870 or GTX470 either.
Midrange, where regular income people like me sit, is the pit of compromise.
I do eagerly await the next gen, and while I might post more in nvidia threads about how they aren't cutting it, the fact that my GFX has not changed reflects that I don't think ATI is really cutting it either. ; )
nvidias too proud to make a high end dual gpu card that wont outperform atis high endQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
expect something crazy, like maybe a 470x2 with newer revision silicon
who cares about the heat/power consumption. high efficiency psus are all over the place, and electricity costs are really nothing with computers
some of us prefer v8s over boosted 4/6's :D
Also tajoh, I secretly think it'd be incredibly hilarious if terrace was right about bulldozer.
What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
With the standard factory BIOS profile I don't find the noise of the GTX 480 worse than the 280 GTX for instance. During gaming it's not problem at all and at idle you won't hear much inside a case.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
For get about scaling. Both top-end cards are very fast and nice products. The problem ATi has is big Crossfire stutter problems in some good games. Sometimes they get fixed months later or not at all (GTA4).Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Almost as many issues as people are having with the GTX 460's and stutter in SLI or otherwise... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cx-ray
I don't know anything about the 460 :) I can only speak for 280 GTX, GTX 480, and trying out the HD 5970 on the x58 platform.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejizz
Huh, I run a single 460 and have had them in SLI in the past and they were fantastic, what issue are you talking about?
Watch this VideoQuote:
Originally Posted by Bodkin
Let's all pretend that AMD's multi-GPU setups don't microstutter as well ( ... NOT! )
Yeah, that totally justifies nvidia's problems (NOT).
:clap: :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
What you guys fail to realize is that both nVIDIA & AMD don't mind microstuttering, and won't do sh1t about it either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
Multi-GPU setups apart from benchmarking shouldn't be used, at least not before they figure out another way to render things ( totally microstutter-free obviously )
Lol... No one is saying only Nv micro-stutters, you are imagining that...Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Ati tried to do something about it with side port but power consumption was too much of an issue.
As no one 'currently' has a fix, neither party can/wants to publicly acknowledge it.
Hydra : D
Not really, you're not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejizz
And of course power consumption wasn't an issue at all.
Here's some basic reading for you ATI's Eric Demers tech interview.
AFAIK it has its own problems ( oh and its scaling sucks :D )Quote:
Originally Posted by cegras
I've only experienced that type of stutter shown in the video in two games with the GTX 280 in SLI. The first was MW2 single player and second Brother's in Arms Hell's Highway. In both cases it depends on the direction you're looking in.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
With the GTX 480 the stutter was gone in MW2...didn't bother to try the other game. I don't know whether it's due to a new driver or just different hardware.
There might be little probs with new games sometimes or with driver updates here and there. Nvidia is pretty good though with updating their driver profiles and fixing problems.
I've gamed extensively with about 30 of the most popular titles from the past 3-4 years. Overall, SLI with the aforementioned cards work better than what I would get with a single card. Whatever the reason may be, the x58 platform made it much better than Nforce. SLI with the cards and hardware that I've used is definitely mature enough for mainstream gaming.
Scan Line Interleave? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
Whoa that was aweful for both setups! But I did think the Crossfire setup was worse with stuttering actually...hmmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejizz
Yes, 460 SLi can stutter, if it does try replacing or even removing the SLi bridge this has cured a few for me.
Just spoke to a rep about whether the Dual GF100 or GF104 cards would see the light of day. Got a political response which I read as yes but I can't say anything.
amd releases 3 new chips in 3 months. nvidia has no new chips. what can nvidia do?Quote:
Originally Posted by initialised
they have kept enough capability in reserve to release a whole new product line. they can upgrade every fermi chip and double up gf104. and by can I mean will.