Picked up some last night for my new i7 build. Just waiting on it to arrive. Will let you know.
Picked up some last night for my new i7 build. Just waiting on it to arrive. Will let you know.
Well F#$% me, tried to install it today, and ended up frying my vid card.
When you have a existing loop with CPU, NB, VID, its a very bad to run the system without the pump running.
Just be careful to isolate the CPU in its own loop to do this...............to me its a pain in the ass, and Ill probably go back to IC diamond........
dead 4890 :(
Wow, I was just looking at this stuff! Thanks for the great review!
I'll be ordering this for when I put my GTZ SE on.
Now available @ P-PC's
LGA1366 kit
LGA775 kit
and Petra's
LGA1366 kit
LGA775 kit
Yes that was a consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by ptrout
Sorry about your misfortune - that really is annoying. I hope the RMA process goes smoothly (if you decide to go down that route).
I had been wondering about that when considering my next build, as I want to run my loops in series but I guess I shall have to have separate loops now.
EDIT: For others in a similar predicament, I've just thought of a good solution.
1. Use Koolance QDC's on your GPU block.
2. Install In-Ex with the GPU on air cooler (but the GPU block hooked up to your loop).
3. Power down after installation, remove QDC's, install block to GFX card without having to hover over your motherboard.
4. Fasten QDC's.
5. Good to go.
It's not exactly a genius breakthrough, but it is certainly the way I'll be doing it.
Just ordered both kits LGA1366 for me and LGA775 for my friend should be here next week. I'm running air so it will not be an issue. For you liquid guys with your crazy loops, do you not have access to a spare video card you can slap in for the "break in" procedure, borrow a friends if need be thats what I would do and leave you GPU in the loop just off to the side (if possible). Just my two cents, I'll let you know how my results turn out.
Wow, first post!
That sucks man :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ptrout
How long was your pump off for? On water reflow really only takes ~15 seconds....I left my pump off for longer just for proof of point, but it only need 15 seconds (20sec tops).
Either way, bummer to hear that...I've killed my share of GPUs and it really sucks when it's a GPU for at 24/7 system.
Saw the P-PCs posting yesterday, glad Petra's got in on it too :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
Great solution to the GPU problem....don't want the GPU to die? Don't run it. I was trying to think of a way to get around it, but your idea is easily the best :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhmuz
:welcome: Will be interested to hear how long reflow takes for you on air...I only had 3 installs to test and all of them went on water.
Vapor,
When I did my installation(s) I ran my system with 2 4870s in Crossfire water cooled) for well over 20 sec with no ill effects and I have no idea how hot they got.
For the future it makes sense to disconnect the video cards prior to reflow. Since I don't have a spare card the question presents - would it be safe to simply time the water off to say, 30 sec without video. Obviously, you would not be able to observe temps during reflow.
This poses a real problem for folk installing an already expensive Thermal compound if it would be necessary to acquire an extra video card.
It would be good to know just how much at risk water cooled video cards really are.
Just to clarify, I ran it more like 30 seconds to 45 seconds, waiting for the temp drop....
And I am now wondering if its any kind of thermal shock, i only noticed my error, when I heard something from the vid block, steam like fog on the tubes. The block was hot to the touch, I mean scalding hot. I turned on the pump immediately, and temp dropped immediately, but wondering now if problem happened becasue it went from super hot to cold in seconds.
I had a spare vid card, too bad, cause it was such a hassle to sperate it out of the loop for the install.
New build/air is easier, retro is a bit more difficult for WC ppl
Just came back from Europe and my Indigo Xtreme has arrived. I ordered two packages, 4 mounts total. I will not have a chance to try it out though for a few days at least (or a few weeks at worst :() because I am going to be moving very soon.
Can't wait to try it though! :D
Does anyone thing there will be issues with the re-flow process considering that I am water cooling the whole EVGA Classified 759 board as well and all is hooked up in one loop at the moment. Maybe 120mm fans blowing over the EK full-cover block are not a bad idea while doing the re-flow since I really do not want to burn the board. Thoughts? :confused:
I decided to ignore removing mb and cpu to mount indigo...for watercooling I didnt see point.
1) set whole computer on side so cpu socket exactly level.
2) cleaned cpu and wb with provided solvent (nice high btw)
3) Then applied per instructions in steps 6-10.
4) attached waterblock.
5) unplugged pump.
6) used air cooled gpu, pushed watercooled gpu to side.
7) started computer and ran prime for 2-3 mins for reflow, dip happened quickly, but just made sure.
Whole procedure took just under an hour, including reading instructions, could do it second time in ~15 mins, not as bad as reading instructions would leave you to believe.
Pic just before putting on waterblock. (my i950 is lapped, which btw changed temps exactly 0 C)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1853/indigoqr.jpg
Best of 4 recent mounts of mx2 using current 4.4ghz OC, 1.34 vcore, and exact same prime large fft on die.
ambient 24.2C
water temp 28.8C
cpu core avg 69.6 or 70.1C corrected for 24.7C ambients.
indigo xtreme mount
ambient 24.7C
water temp 29.45C
Cpu core avg 67.5C at 24.7C ambient
So my current OC/settings got 2.6C better with indigo xtreme than best of 4 mounts with mx2.
I wish I had ran some data at 4.6 to 4.7 OC settings, was planning on it when got stuff, but forgot.
Funny thing you can collect 20 mins of data or 5 mins or 2 mins, (after 15 mins load to reach steady state), and you get same exact same temp within ~.1 C. But here is short piece data:
best mx2 mount (2 days old after burn in)
Code:DATE TIME MHz CPU_0 CPU_1 CPU_2 CPU_3 GPU LOAD%
9/11/2009 21:21:01 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:02 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:04 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:04 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:06 4416.03 71 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:06 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:08 4416.03 71 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:08 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:10 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:10 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:12 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:12 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:14 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:15 4416.03 69 71 70 63 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:16 4416.03 70 72 69 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:17 4416.03 70 71 69 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:18 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:19 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:20 4416.03 69 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:21 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:22 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:23 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:24 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:25 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:26 4416.03 70 72 70 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:27 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:28 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:29 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:30 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:31 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:32 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:33 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:34 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:35 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:36 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:37 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:38 4416.03 69 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:39 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:40 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:41 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:42 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:43 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:44 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:45 4416.03 70 73 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:46 4416.03 70 72 70 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:47 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:48 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:49 4416.03 69 72 70 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:50 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:51 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:52 4416.03 68 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:53 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:54 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:55 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:56 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:57 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:58 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:21:59 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:00 4416.03 69 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:01 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:02 4416.03 70 72 70 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:03 4416.03 70 72 65 65 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:04 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:05 4416.03 70 72 65 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:06 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:07 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:08 4416.03 71 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:09 4416.03 69 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:10 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:11 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:12 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:13 4416.03 69 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:14 4416.03 69 72 70 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:15 4416.03 70 71 69 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:17 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:18 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:19 4416.03 70 71 69 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:20 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:21 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:22 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:23 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:24 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:25 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:26 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:27 4416.03 70 72 70 62 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:28 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:29 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:30 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:31 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:32 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:33 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:34 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:35 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:36 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:37 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:38 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:39 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:40 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:41 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:42 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:43 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:44 4416.03 70 72 71 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:45 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:46 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:47 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:48 4416.03 69 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:49 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:50 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:51 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:52 4416.03 69 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:53 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:54 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:55 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:56 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:57 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:58 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:22:59 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:00 4416.03 69 72 71 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:01 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:02 4416.03 70 71 71 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:03 4416.03 70 71 71 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:04 4416.03 69 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:05 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:06 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:07 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:08 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:09 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:10 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:11 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:12 4416.03 69 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:13 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:14 4416.03 70 71 70 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:15 4416.03 69 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:16 4416.03 71 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:17 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:18 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:19 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:20 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:21 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:22 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:23 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:24 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:25 4416.03 70 72 70 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:26 4416.03 70 72 71 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:27 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:28 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:30 4416.03 70 69 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:30 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:32 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:33 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:34 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:35 4416.03 70 71 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:36 4416.03 69 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:37 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:38 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:39 4416.03 68 72 71 63 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:40 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:41 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:42 4416.03 70 72 71 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:43 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:44 4416.03 70 72 71 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:45 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:46 4416.03 70 71 71 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:47 4416.03 69 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:48 4416.03 70 72 71 68 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:49 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:50 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:51 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:52 4416.03 70 70 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:53 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:54 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:55 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:56 4416.03 70 72 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:57 4416.03 70 71 71 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:58 4416.03 70 71 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:23:59 4416.03 70 72 70 67 38 100
9/11/2009 21:24:00 4416.03 70 72 70 66 38 100
69.61723164 28.8 40.81723164
indigo mount
Code:
DATE TIME MHz CPU_0 CPU_1 CPU_2 CPU_3 GPU LOAD%
9/11/2009 23:19:23 4416.04 68 69 68 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:24 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:25 4416.04 69 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:26 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:27 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:28 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:29 4416.04 69 70 69 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:30 4416.04 68 69 69 65 38 100
9/11/2009 23:19:31 4416.04 68 70 68 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:32 4416.04 69 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:33 4416.04 69 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:34 4416.04 69 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:35 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:36 4416.04 68 70 68 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:37 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:38 4416.04 69 70 69 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:39 4416.04 68 69 69 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:40 4416.04 69 69 69 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:41 4416.04 68 70 68 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:42 4416.04 68 69 69 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:43 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:44 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:45 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:46 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:47 4416.04 69 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:48 4416.04 67 69 69 65 38 100
9/11/2009 23:19:49 4416.04 68 69 68 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:50 4416.04 69 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:51 4416.04 68 68 68 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:52 4416.04 69 69 69 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:53 4416.04 69 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:54 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:55 4416.04 68 69 68 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:56 4416.04 67 69 69 65 38 100
9/11/2009 23:19:57 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:58 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:19:59 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:00 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:01 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:02 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:03 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:04 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:05 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:06 4416.04 69 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:07 4416.04 67 68 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:08 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:09 4416.04 68 70 68 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:10 4416.04 68 70 68 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:11 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:12 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:14 4416.04 68 70 69 65 38 100
9/11/2009 23:20:14 4416.04 68 70 69 65 38 100
9/11/2009 23:20:16 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:17 4416.04 68 70 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:18 4416.04 68 69 69 64 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:18 4416.04 68 69 69 63 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:20 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/11/2009 23:20:20 4416.04 68 69 69 65 39 100
9/12/2009 23:20:22 4416.04 68 69 68 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:23 4416.04 68 69 69 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:24 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:25 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:26 4416.04 68 68 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:27 4416.04 67 69 68 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:28 4416.04 67 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:29 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:30 4416.04 68 69 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:31 4416.04 68 69 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:32 4416.04 68 70 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:33 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:34 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:35 4416.04 67 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:36 4416.04 68 69 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:37 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:38 4416.04 68 69 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:39 4416.04 67 69 68 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:40 4416.04 68 67 69 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:41 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:42 4416.04 68 70 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:43 4416.04 68 69 68 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:44 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:45 4416.04 67 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:46 4416.04 67 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:47 4416.04 68 68 67 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:48 4416.04 68 69 69 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:49 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:50 4416.04 68 68 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:51 4416.04 67 69 69 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:52 4416.04 68 69 68 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:53 4416.04 67 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:54 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:55 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:56 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:57 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:58 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:20:59 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:00 4416.04 68 70 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:01 4416.04 67 68 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:02 4416.04 67 70 69 65 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:03 4416.04 68 68 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:04 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:05 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:06 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:07 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:08 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:09 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:10 4416.04 68 70 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:11 4416.04 68 68 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:12 4416.04 68 69 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:13 4416.04 68 68 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:14 4416.04 68 69 69 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:15 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:16 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:17 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:18 4416.04 67 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:19 4416.04 67 68 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:20 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:21 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:22 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:24 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:24 4416.04 68 69 67 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:26 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:27 4416.04 68 68 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:28 4416.04 68 70 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:29 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:30 4416.04 68 69 68 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:31 4416.04 68 70 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:32 4416.04 68 70 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:33 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:34 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:35 4416.04 68 70 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:36 4416.04 67 68 68 63 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:37 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:38 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:39 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:40 4416.04 68 70 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:41 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:42 4416.04 68 70 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:43 4416.04 68 70 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:44 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:45 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:46 4416.04 68 69 68 65 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:47 4416.04 68 68 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:48 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:49 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:50 4416.04 68 70 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:51 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:52 4416.04 68 69 68 65 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:53 4416.04 67 70 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:54 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:55 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:56 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:57 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:58 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:21:59 4416.04 68 69 69 64 38 100
9/12/2009 23:22:00 4416.04 68 69 68 64 38 100
67.46955128 29.45 38.01955128
thanks for sharing your results rge, sounds like you kept it as controlled as possible too... well done! :up:
edit:
oh and the lapping, I'm starting to see less and less reason to lap.
Ordered mine yesterday, should have here Monday. Hoping to get it right the first time. How does it do under extreme cold?
I notice that your Core#3 temperatures are consistently 4-5 Kelvin lower than your other three cores. In my case, my Core#2 temperatures are consistently 5 Kelvin higher than my other cores.Quote:
Originally Posted by rge
Does anyone know why this is? I mean, a consistent constant and rather large 5 Kelvin difference between one core and all the rest?
Does anyone know the physical positions of the cores on the Core I7 die and their corresponding core numbers?
My GTX 280 barely got warm to the touch without flow for the whole few minutes it took to do the reflow process.
I'm guessing that newer NVIDIA cards can drop core power far better while idle than ATI cards can.
The easiest way if you're concerned is just unplug the +12V leads from the video card and plug in an aircooled card in another slot. Should work.
First post also!
Would it be possible to just keep the GPU in the loop but actually remove the card from the PCIe slot and disconnect the additional power connectors and let the computer sit at BIOS? There wont be any real load on the CPU, so maybe not enough load/heat generated for reheat? Would it just take longer for the reheat or would it just not reach a high enough temp?
I would love to try this stuff, but really concerned about the GPU, and I am not too keen about going through the hassle of putting it on air cooling. I have a GTX285, so maybe it will throttle down. But thats one hell of a gamble.
The gpu can remain in the loop even if you disconnect it from the MB. Just slap in a cheap PCIe card so you can plug in a monitor. For the reheat to work the CPU has to get hot and this is why they want you to run OCCT or prime. From what I have read it only takes about 30 seconds total and then you can plug your pump back in.
Thanks, and yeah 2 I lapped with careful measurement before and after was 0 C different. If you do testing with lapping, would be interested to see what you get on yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
@aberration, you can always test it first, boot up at stock gpu settings and underclock your i7 to 12x133 and .9vcore. Then wait til OS settles, start realtemp to watch cpu and gpu temps, can either set realtemp to do an orderly shutdown at certain temp, or just keep finger on power button and watch temps and pull plug on pump. It wont hurt cpu even if hits 100C. My guess is your gpu will take a long time to get hot. But if not shut it down, but that way you can test beforehand. I would do it on mine right now, but afraid I will reflow indigo again.
I knocked my molex plug loose on my ultra loop pump (back when had 2 loops and an 8800 ultra), 15 mins into benching cpu saw gpu temps were 80C...but waited until my cpu bench run was done, then figured out problem.
I would have left my gtx 295 in, but takes less than a minute to put air cooled gpu in slot (i have very old one), and just move wc one out of way. Or utnorris had better idea, unplug wc and put air cooled in another slot...though if you dont have old aircooled one lying around granted that wont work.
EDIT: curiousity was killing me. I booted my computer at 12x133, .9vcore, mem 6x, uncore 13x, qpi 18, turbo off, meant to turn HT off but forgot...didnt matter. Also meant to remove OC from gpu, forgot to do that as well, but that didnt matter either.
started speedfan, pulled plug on pump. Ran for 10 minutes with no pump. CPU temp will not rise that much even without flow at that low settings, only putting out 2-3W. over 10 minutes of no pump, gpu temps climbed from 36C slowly to 66C, despite 295gtx dual gpu still OCed. core 0 temps increased to 60s. Then plugged back in and shutdown. I think as long as you have nvidia gpu, (even though one of my cores was at 700 other was downclocked to 300 itself) you will be fine. See speedfan log of gpu (red) core 0 (green) temps.
BUT I would recommend on reflow, starting computer with pump on, so gpu gets no load, dont know if that matters or not. The pull plug on pump, and do reflow. That way gpu never gets loaded, and my gtx did not even blink at 66C max temp after 10 mins with no pump.
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2637/pumpofftest.jpg
And realtemp log which started 30 seconds late, pump was unplugged from ~12:32 to 12:43
Code:DATE TIME MHz CPU_0 CPU_1 CPU_2 CPU_3 GPU LOAD%
9/12/2009 12:33:01 1619.29 39 39 39 35 40 2.1
9/12/2009 12:33:02 1619.29 38 39 40 35 40 2.5
9/12/2009 12:33:03 1619.29 38 39 39 35 40 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:04 1619.29 39 39 39 35 40 2.3
9/12/2009 12:33:05 1619.29 39 39 40 35 40 2.8
9/12/2009 12:33:06 1619.29 39 39 39 35 41 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:07 1619.29 39 40 39 35 41 2.1
9/12/2009 12:33:08 1619.29 39 40 40 35 41 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:09 1619.29 39 40 40 36 41 2
9/12/2009 12:33:10 1619.29 39 40 40 36 41 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:11 1619.29 39 40 40 36 41 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:12 1619.29 39 40 40 36 41 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:13 1619.29 39 40 40 36 41 2
9/12/2009 12:33:14 1619.29 39 40 40 36 42 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:15 1619.29 39 40 40 36 42 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:16 1619.29 40 40 41 36 42 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:17 1619.29 40 40 40 37 42 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:18 1619.29 40 40 40 36 42 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:19 1619.29 40 41 41 37 42 2.2
9/12/2009 12:33:20 1619.29 40 41 41 37 42 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:21 1619.29 40 41 40 37 42 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:22 1619.29 40 42 41 37 43 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:23 1619.29 40 41 41 37 42 2
9/12/2009 12:33:24 1619.29 40 40 41 37 43 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:25 1619.29 40 42 42 37 43 2.1
9/12/2009 12:33:26 1619.29 40 42 42 38 43 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:27 1619.29 41 41 41 38 43 2
9/12/2009 12:33:28 1619.29 41 42 42 38 43 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:29 1619.29 41 41 42 38 43 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:30 1619.29 40 41 43 38 43 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:31 1619.29 41 42 43 38 43 2.3
9/12/2009 12:33:32 1619.29 41 42 43 38 43 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:33 1619.29 41 42 42 38 43 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:34 1619.29 41 43 42 39 43 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:35 1619.29 42 43 43 39 44 2
9/12/2009 12:33:36 1619.29 41 43 42 39 44 1.7
9/12/2009 12:33:37 1619.29 42 42 43 39 44 2.2
9/12/2009 12:33:38 1619.29 42 43 43 39 44 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:39 1619.29 41 43 43 39 44 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:40 1619.29 42 43 43 39 44 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:41 1619.29 42 43 43 39 44 1.9
9/12/2009 12:33:42 1619.29 42 44 43 39 44 2.8
9/12/2009 12:33:43 1619.29 42 43 43 40 44 7.4
9/12/2009 12:33:44 1619.29 43 43 44 39 44 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:45 1619.29 43 43 43 39 45 2.1
9/12/2009 12:33:46 1619.29 43 43 43 40 45 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:47 1619.29 43 44 44 39 45 2.1
9/12/2009 12:33:48 1619.29 43 43 43 39 45 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:49 1619.29 43 43 43 39 45 2
9/12/2009 12:33:50 1619.29 43 44 43 40 45 1.7
9/12/2009 12:33:51 1619.29 43 44 44 40 45 2
9/12/2009 12:33:52 1619.29 43 44 44 40 45 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:53 1619.29 43 44 44 40 45 2.1
9/12/2009 12:33:54 1619.29 43 44 44 40 45 1.6
9/12/2009 12:33:56 1619.29 43 44 44 40 45 2.2
9/12/2009 12:33:57 1619.29 43 44 44 40 45 1.8
9/12/2009 12:33:58 1619.29 43 44 44 40 45 2.1
9/12/2009 12:33:59 1619.29 44 44 45 40 45 1.6
9/12/2009 12:34:00 1619.29 43 44 44 40 46 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:01 1619.29 44 44 44 41 46 1.6
9/12/2009 12:34:02 1619.29 44 44 45 41 46 2
9/12/2009 12:34:03 1619.29 44 44 44 41 46 1.8
9/12/2009 12:34:04 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 1.9
9/12/2009 12:34:05 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 1.6
9/12/2009 12:34:06 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:07 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:08 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 2
9/12/2009 12:34:09 1619.29 44 45 45 42 46 1.8
9/12/2009 12:34:10 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 1.9
9/12/2009 12:34:11 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 1.6
9/12/2009 12:34:12 1619.29 44 45 45 41 47 2.2
9/12/2009 12:34:13 1619.29 44 45 45 41 47 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:14 1619.29 44 45 45 41 46 2
9/12/2009 12:34:15 1619.29 44 45 45 42 47 1.7
9/12/2009 12:34:16 1619.29 45 45 45 41 47 1.9
9/12/2009 12:34:17 1619.29 44 45 46 42 47 1.8
9/12/2009 12:34:18 1619.29 44 46 46 42 47 2.2
9/12/2009 12:34:19 1619.29 45 46 45 41 47 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:20 1619.29 45 46 46 42 47 2
9/12/2009 12:34:21 1619.29 45 46 46 41 47 1.8
9/12/2009 12:34:22 1619.29 45 46 45 42 47 1.9
9/12/2009 12:34:23 1619.29 45 46 46 42 47 1.6
9/12/2009 12:34:24 1619.29 45 46 46 42 47 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:25 1619.29 45 46 46 42 48 1.6
9/12/2009 12:34:26 1619.29 45 46 46 43 47 2
9/12/2009 12:34:27 1619.29 45 46 46 42 47 1.8
9/12/2009 12:34:28 1619.29 45 46 46 42 48 2
9/12/2009 12:34:29 1619.29 45 46 46 43 48 1.6
9/12/2009 12:34:30 1619.29 45 46 46 43 48 2.2
9/12/2009 12:34:31 1619.29 46 46 46 43 48 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:32 1619.29 45 46 46 43 48 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:33 1619.29 45 46 47 43 48 1.7
9/12/2009 12:34:34 1619.29 45 46 46 43 48 2
9/12/2009 12:34:35 1619.29 46 46 47 43 48 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:36 1619.29 46 46 47 43 48 2.3
9/12/2009 12:34:37 1619.29 46 47 47 43 48 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:38 1619.29 46 47 47 43 48 2
9/12/2009 12:34:39 1619.29 46 46 47 43 48 1.7
9/12/2009 12:34:40 1619.29 46 47 47 43 48 2
9/12/2009 12:34:41 1619.29 46 47 47 43 48 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:42 1619.29 46 47 47 43 49 2.2
9/12/2009 12:34:43 1619.29 46 47 47 44 49 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:44 1619.29 47 47 47 44 49 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:45 1619.29 46 47 47 43 49 1.7
9/12/2009 12:34:46 1619.29 46 47 47 44 49 2
9/12/2009 12:34:47 1619.29 46 47 48 44 49 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:48 1619.29 47 47 47 44 49 2.3
9/12/2009 12:34:49 1619.29 47 47 47 44 49 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:50 1619.29 47 47 47 44 49 2
9/12/2009 12:34:51 1619.29 46 47 47 44 49 1.7
9/12/2009 12:34:52 1619.29 46 47 48 44 49 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:53 1619.29 47 47 47 44 49 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:54 1619.29 47 47 47 44 49 2.2
9/12/2009 12:34:55 1619.29 47 48 48 44 49 1.5
9/12/2009 12:34:56 1619.29 47 47 48 44 49 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:57 1619.29 47 47 48 44 49 1.7
9/12/2009 12:34:58 1619.29 47 48 48 44 50 2.1
9/12/2009 12:34:59 1619.29 47 47 48 44 49 1.5
9/12/2009 12:35:00 1619.29 47 48 48 44 50 2.4
9/12/2009 12:35:01 1619.29 47 48 48 44 50 1.5
9/12/2009 12:35:02 1619.29 47 48 48 45 50 2.1
9/12/2009 12:35:03 1619.29 48 48 48 44 50 1.7
9/12/2009 12:35:04 1619.29 47 48 48 45 50 2
9/12/2009 12:35:05 1619.29 47 48 49 45 50 1.6
9/12/2009 12:35:06 1619.29 47 48 48 45 50 2.2
9/12/2009 12:35:08 1619.29 48 48 48 45 50 1.5
9/12/2009 12:35:09 1619.29 47 48 48 45 50 2.1
9/12/2009 12:35:10 1619.29 48 48 48 45 50 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:11 1619.29 48 48 48 45 50 2
9/12/2009 12:35:12 1619.29 48 48 48 45 50 1.5
9/12/2009 12:35:13 1619.29 48 49 48 45 50 2.3
9/12/2009 12:35:14 1619.29 48 48 48 45 50 1.5
9/12/2009 12:35:15 1619.29 48 49 48 45 50 2
9/12/2009 12:35:16 1619.29 48 49 49 45 50 2.1
9/12/2009 12:35:17 1619.29 48 49 49 45 50 4.9
9/12/2009 12:35:18 1619.29 48 49 49 45 50 2
9/12/2009 12:35:19 1619.29 48 49 49 45 51 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:20 1619.29 49 49 49 45 51 1.9
9/12/2009 12:35:21 1619.29 48 49 49 45 51 1.7
9/12/2009 12:35:22 1619.29 48 49 49 45 51 1.9
9/12/2009 12:35:23 1619.29 48 49 49 45 51 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:24 1619.29 48 49 49 45 51 2
9/12/2009 12:35:25 1619.29 48 49 49 45 51 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:26 1619.29 48 49 49 46 51 1.9
9/12/2009 12:35:27 1619.29 49 49 50 46 51 1.7
9/12/2009 12:35:28 1619.29 49 49 49 46 51 2.2
9/12/2009 12:35:29 1619.29 49 49 49 45 51 1.6
9/12/2009 12:35:30 1619.29 48 49 49 46 51 2
9/12/2009 12:35:31 1619.29 49 49 50 46 51 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:32 1619.29 49 49 49 46 51 2
9/12/2009 12:35:33 1619.29 49 49 49 46 51 1.6
9/12/2009 12:35:34 1619.29 49 50 49 46 51 2.2
9/12/2009 12:35:35 1619.29 49 49 49 46 51 1.5
9/12/2009 12:35:36 1619.29 49 50 49 46 52 2
9/12/2009 12:35:37 1619.29 49 50 50 46 52 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:38 1619.29 49 49 50 46 52 2
9/12/2009 12:35:39 1619.29 49 49 50 46 52 1.6
9/12/2009 12:35:40 1619.29 49 50 49 46 52 2.3
9/12/2009 12:35:41 1619.29 49 50 50 47 52 1.5
9/12/2009 12:35:42 1619.29 49 50 50 46 52 2.1
9/12/2009 12:35:43 1619.29 50 50 50 46 52 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:44 1619.29 50 50 51 47 52 2
9/12/2009 12:35:45 1619.29 49 50 50 46 52 1.8
9/12/2009 12:35:46 1619.29 50 50 50 46 52 2.8
9/12/2009 12:35:47 1619.29 50 50 50 47 52 2.3
9/12/2009 12:35:48 1619.29 50 50 50 47 52 2.3
9/12/2009 12:35:49 1619.29 50 50 50 47 52 2.5
9/12/2009 12:35:50 1619.29 50 50 50 47 52 2.9
9/12/2009 12:35:51 1619.29 50 51 51 47 52 1.9
9/12/2009 12:35:52 1619.29 50 50 50 47 52 1.9
9/12/2009 12:35:53 1619.29 50 52 51 48 52 13.5
9/12/2009 12:35:54 1619.29 51 51 50 47 53 15.6
9/12/2009 12:35:55 1619.29 50 50 51 47 53 4.3
9/12/2009 12:35:56 1619.29 50 50 51 47 53 2.3
9/12/2009 12:35:57 1619.29 50 50 50 47 53 2.2
9/12/2009 12:35:58 1619.29 50 51 50 47 53 1.7
9/12/2009 12:35:59 1619.29 50 50 50 47 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:00 1619.29 50 51 50 47 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:01 1619.29 50 50 51 47 53 2.4
9/12/2009 12:36:02 1619.29 50 50 51 47 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:03 1619.29 50 51 51 47 53 1.6
9/12/2009 12:36:04 1619.29 50 51 51 47 53 1.6
9/12/2009 12:36:05 1619.29 51 51 50 48 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:06 1619.29 50 51 51 48 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:07 1619.29 50 51 51 47 53 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:08 1619.29 50 51 51 48 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:09 1619.29 51 51 51 48 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:10 1619.29 51 51 50 48 53 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:11 1619.29 50 51 51 48 53 1.6
9/12/2009 12:36:12 1619.29 51 51 50 48 53 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:13 1619.29 51 51 52 48 53 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:14 1619.29 51 51 52 48 53 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:15 1619.29 51 51 51 48 53 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:16 1619.29 50 51 52 48 53 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:17 1619.29 51 51 51 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:18 1619.29 51 51 51 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:20 1619.29 51 51 51 48 54 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:21 1619.29 50 52 51 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:22 1619.29 51 52 51 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:23 1619.29 51 52 52 48 54 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:24 1619.29 51 52 51 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:25 1619.29 51 52 51 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:26 1619.29 51 51 51 48 54 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:27 1619.29 51 52 51 49 54 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:28 1619.29 52 52 51 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:29 1619.29 51 52 52 49 54 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:30 1619.29 52 51 52 48 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:31 1619.29 52 52 52 49 54 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:32 1619.29 51 52 52 49 54 1.8
9/12/2009 12:36:33 1619.29 51 52 52 49 54 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:34 1619.29 51 52 52 49 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:35 1619.29 51 52 53 49 54 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:36 1619.29 52 52 52 49 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:37 1619.29 52 52 52 49 54 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:38 1619.29 52 52 52 49 54 1.8
9/12/2009 12:36:39 1619.29 51 52 52 49 54 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:40 1619.29 52 52 52 49 54 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:41 1619.29 52 52 52 49 54 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:42 1619.29 52 52 52 49 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:43 1619.29 52 52 52 49 55 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:44 1619.29 52 52 52 49 55 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:45 1619.29 52 52 53 50 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:46 1619.29 52 52 52 50 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:47 1619.29 52 52 52 49 55 1.9
9/12/2009 12:36:48 1619.29 52 52 53 50 55 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:49 1619.29 52 52 53 49 55 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:50 1619.29 52 52 52 50 55 1.7
9/12/2009 12:36:51 1619.29 52 52 53 49 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:52 1619.29 52 52 53 49 55 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:53 1619.29 52 52 52 50 55 1.8
9/12/2009 12:36:54 1619.29 52 52 53 49 55 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:55 1619.29 52 52 53 50 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:56 1619.29 52 52 53 49 55 1.8
9/12/2009 12:36:57 1619.29 52 52 53 50 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:36:58 1619.29 52 52 53 49 55 1.4
9/12/2009 12:36:59 1619.29 52 53 53 50 55 1.8
9/12/2009 12:37:00 1619.29 52 53 53 50 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:01 1619.29 52 53 53 50 55 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:02 1619.29 53 53 53 52 55 1.8
9/12/2009 12:37:03 1619.29 53 53 53 51 56 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:04 1619.29 52 53 53 51 56 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:05 1619.29 53 53 53 51 56 1.6
9/12/2009 12:37:06 1619.29 52 53 53 50 56 1.6
9/12/2009 12:37:07 1619.29 52 53 53 50 56 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:08 1619.29 53 53 53 50 56 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:09 1619.29 52 53 54 51 56 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:10 1619.29 53 53 53 51 56 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:11 1619.29 53 53 53 50 56 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:12 1619.29 53 53 53 50 56 2.5
9/12/2009 12:37:13 1619.29 53 53 53 51 56 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:14 1619.29 53 53 53 50 56 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:15 1619.29 53 53 53 50 56 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:16 1619.29 53 53 54 51 56 2.4
9/12/2009 12:37:17 1619.29 53 53 53 51 56 2
9/12/2009 12:37:18 1619.29 53 53 53 50 56 3.4
9/12/2009 12:37:19 1619.29 53 53 53 51 56 2.1
9/12/2009 12:37:20 1619.29 53 53 54 50 56 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:21 1619.29 53 53 54 50 56 1.8
9/12/2009 12:37:22 1619.29 53 53 53 51 56 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:23 1619.29 53 53 54 51 56 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:24 1619.29 54 54 54 51 56 1.9
9/12/2009 12:37:25 1619.29 53 54 54 51 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:26 1619.29 53 53 54 51 56 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:27 1619.29 53 53 54 51 57 1.8
9/12/2009 12:37:28 1619.29 53 53 54 51 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:29 1619.29 53 53 54 51 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:30 1619.29 53 54 54 51 57 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:31 1619.29 53 54 54 51 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:33 1619.29 53 54 54 51 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:34 1619.29 53 54 54 51 57 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:35 1619.29 53 54 54 52 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:36 1619.29 53 54 54 52 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:37 1619.29 53 54 54 52 57 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:38 1619.29 54 54 54 52 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:39 1619.29 53 55 54 52 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:40 1619.29 54 54 54 52 57 1.8
9/12/2009 12:37:41 1619.29 53 53 54 52 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:42 1619.29 54 55 54 52 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:43 1619.29 53 54 54 52 57 1.8
9/12/2009 12:37:44 1619.29 53 54 54 51 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:45 1619.29 54 54 54 52 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:46 1619.29 54 54 55 52 57 1.8
9/12/2009 12:37:47 1619.29 54 54 55 52 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:48 1619.29 53 54 54 52 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:49 1619.29 54 54 54 52 57 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:50 1619.29 54 54 54 51 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:51 1619.29 53 54 54 52 57 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:52 1619.29 54 54 55 51 57 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:53 1619.29 54 55 55 52 57 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:54 1619.29 54 54 55 52 58 1.6
9/12/2009 12:37:55 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:56 1619.29 54 54 55 52 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:37:57 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.4
9/12/2009 12:37:58 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.7
9/12/2009 12:37:59 1619.29 54 54 55 52 58 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:00 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:01 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:02 1619.29 54 54 55 52 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:03 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:04 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:05 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:06 1619.29 54 56 55 52 58 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:07 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.7
9/12/2009 12:38:08 1619.29 54 55 55 52 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:09 1619.29 54 56 55 53 58 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:10 1619.29 54 55 56 53 58 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:11 1619.29 54 55 56 53 58 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:12 1619.29 54 55 55 53 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:13 1619.29 55 56 56 53 58 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:14 1619.29 54 55 56 53 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:15 1619.29 55 55 56 53 58 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:16 1619.29 54 55 55 53 58 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:17 1619.29 54 55 56 53 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:18 1619.29 55 56 55 53 58 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:19 1619.29 54 55 56 53 58 1.7
9/12/2009 12:38:20 1619.29 54 55 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:21 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:22 1619.29 55 55 55 53 59 1.9
9/12/2009 12:38:23 1619.29 55 55 56 52 59 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:24 1619.29 55 55 56 53 59 1.6
9/12/2009 12:38:25 1619.29 55 55 55 53 59 1.7
9/12/2009 12:38:26 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:27 1619.29 55 55 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:28 1619.29 56 55 56 53 59 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:29 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.3
9/12/2009 12:38:30 1619.29 55 55 55 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:31 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:32 1619.29 55 55 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:33 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:34 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:35 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:36 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:37 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.7
9/12/2009 12:38:38 1619.29 55 57 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:39 1619.29 55 57 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:40 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.7
9/12/2009 12:38:41 1619.29 55 56 56 54 59 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:42 1619.29 55 57 56 54 59 1.6
9/12/2009 12:38:43 1619.29 55 57 56 54 59 1.7
9/12/2009 12:38:45 1619.29 55 56 56 54 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:46 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:47 1619.29 56 56 56 54 59 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:48 1619.29 55 56 56 53 59 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:49 1619.29 55 57 56 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:50 1619.29 55 56 56 54 60 1.7
9/12/2009 12:38:51 1619.29 55 56 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:52 1619.29 55 56 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:53 1619.29 55 57 56 54 60 1.9
9/12/2009 12:38:54 1619.29 55 57 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:55 1619.29 55 57 56 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:56 1619.29 55 57 56 54 60 1.8
9/12/2009 12:38:57 1619.29 55 56 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:38:58 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:38:59 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:00 1619.29 55 56 57 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:01 1619.29 55 57 56 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:02 1619.29 55 56 56 54 60 1.8
9/12/2009 12:39:03 1619.29 55 57 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:04 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:05 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.8
9/12/2009 12:39:06 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:07 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:08 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.8
9/12/2009 12:39:09 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:10 1619.29 56 57 56 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:11 1619.29 56 56 57 54 60 5.5
9/12/2009 12:39:12 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:13 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:14 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.8
9/12/2009 12:39:15 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:16 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:17 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:18 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:19 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:20 1619.29 56 57 57 54 60 1.8
9/12/2009 12:39:21 1619.29 56 58 57 54 61 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:22 1619.29 56 57 57 55 60 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:23 1619.29 56 57 57 55 61 1.8
9/12/2009 12:39:24 1619.29 56 57 57 54 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:25 1619.29 56 57 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:26 1619.29 56 58 57 55 61 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:27 1619.29 56 57 57 55 61 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:28 1619.29 56 57 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:29 1619.29 57 57 57 54 61 1.6
9/12/2009 12:39:30 1619.29 56 57 57 54 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:31 1619.29 56 57 57 54 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:32 1619.29 56 57 58 55 61 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:33 1619.29 56 57 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:34 1619.29 56 58 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:35 1619.29 57 57 57 54 61 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:36 1619.29 56 57 58 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:37 1619.29 56 57 57 55 61 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:38 1619.29 57 58 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:39 1619.29 57 58 58 55 61 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:40 1619.29 56 58 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:41 1619.29 57 57 58 55 61 1.6
9/12/2009 12:39:42 1619.29 57 58 58 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:43 1619.29 56 58 57 55 61 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:44 1619.29 57 58 57 55 61 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:45 1619.29 56 58 58 55 61 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:46 1619.29 57 58 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:47 1619.29 56 58 57 55 61 1.6
9/12/2009 12:39:48 1619.29 57 58 58 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:49 1619.29 57 58 57 55 61 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:50 1619.29 57 58 57 55 61 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:51 1619.29 57 58 58 55 61 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:52 1619.29 57 58 57 55 61 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:53 1619.29 57 59 57 55 61 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:54 1619.29 56 58 57 55 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:39:55 1619.29 57 58 57 55 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:56 1619.29 57 58 57 55 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:39:58 1619.29 57 58 57 55 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:39:59 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:00 1619.29 57 58 57 55 62 1.8
9/12/2009 12:40:01 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:02 1619.29 57 58 57 55 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:03 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:04 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:05 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:06 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.6
9/12/2009 12:40:07 1619.29 57 58 57 55 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:08 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:09 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:10 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:11 1619.29 57 58 59 55 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:12 1619.29 57 58 58 55 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:13 1619.29 57 60 58 57 62 5.1
9/12/2009 12:40:14 1619.29 58 59 58 56 62 12.9
9/12/2009 12:40:15 1619.29 58 59 58 56 62 3.7
9/12/2009 12:40:16 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:17 1619.29 57 58 59 56 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:18 1619.29 57 58 58 56 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:19 1619.29 57 58 58 56 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:20 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:21 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:22 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:23 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:24 1619.29 57 58 58 56 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:25 1619.29 57 58 58 56 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:26 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.3
9/12/2009 12:40:27 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:28 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:29 1619.29 57 59 58 56 62 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:30 1619.29 57 59 58 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:31 1619.29 57 59 59 56 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:32 1619.29 57 59 59 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:33 1619.29 57 59 58 56 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:34 1619.29 57 59 58 56 63 1.6
9/12/2009 12:40:35 1619.29 57 59 59 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:36 1619.29 57 59 58 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:37 1619.29 57 60 58 56 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:38 1619.29 57 59 58 57 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:39 1619.29 57 59 58 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:40 1619.29 58 59 58 56 63 1.6
9/12/2009 12:40:41 1619.29 57 59 58 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:42 1619.29 57 59 59 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:43 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:44 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:45 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.6
9/12/2009 12:40:46 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.6
9/12/2009 12:40:47 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:48 1619.29 57 59 59 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:49 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:50 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:51 1619.29 58 60 59 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:52 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:53 1619.29 58 59 59 57 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:54 1619.29 57 60 59 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:55 1619.29 58 59 59 56 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:40:56 1619.29 58 60 59 56 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:40:57 1619.29 58 60 59 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:40:58 1619.29 58 60 59 56 63 1.6
9/12/2009 12:40:59 1619.29 58 60 59 57 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:00 1619.29 58 60 60 57 63 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:01 1619.29 58 59 60 57 63 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:02 1619.29 58 60 59 56 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:03 1619.29 58 60 60 56 63 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:04 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.8
9/12/2009 12:41:05 1619.29 58 59 60 57 63 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:06 1619.29 58 60 59 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:07 1619.29 58 60 60 56 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:08 1619.29 58 60 59 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:10 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:11 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:12 1619.29 58 60 59 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:13 1619.29 58 59 60 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:14 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:15 1619.29 58 60 59 57 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:16 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:17 1619.29 58 60 59 57 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:18 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:19 1619.29 58 60 59 57 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:20 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:21 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:22 1619.29 58 60 59 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:23 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:24 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:25 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:26 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:27 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:28 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:29 1619.29 58 60 61 57 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:30 1619.29 59 60 61 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:31 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:32 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:33 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:34 1619.29 58 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:35 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:36 1619.29 59 61 61 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:37 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:38 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:39 1619.29 59 60 61 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:40 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:41 1619.29 59 60 61 57 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:42 1619.29 59 60 60 57 64 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:43 1619.29 59 60 61 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:44 1619.29 59 60 60 58 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:45 1619.29 58 60 60 57 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:46 1619.29 58 61 61 57 64 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:47 1619.29 59 60 61 57 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:48 1619.29 59 61 61 57 64 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:49 1619.29 59 61 60 57 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:50 1619.29 58 61 61 58 64 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:51 1619.29 59 61 60 57 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:52 1619.29 58 60 61 57 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:53 1619.29 59 61 60 57 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:41:54 1619.29 59 60 60 57 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:55 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:56 1619.29 59 61 60 58 65 1.6
9/12/2009 12:41:57 1619.29 59 61 61 57 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:41:58 1619.29 59 60 60 57 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:41:59 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:00 1619.29 59 61 60 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:01 1619.29 60 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:02 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.6
9/12/2009 12:42:03 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:04 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:05 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:06 1619.29 59 61 60 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:07 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:08 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:09 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:10 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:11 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:12 1619.29 59 61 60 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:13 1619.29 60 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:14 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:15 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.6
9/12/2009 12:42:16 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:17 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:18 1619.29 60 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:19 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:20 1619.29 60 61 61 58 65 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:22 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:23 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:24 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.6
9/12/2009 12:42:25 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:26 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:27 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.6
9/12/2009 12:42:28 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:29 1619.29 60 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:30 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:31 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:32 1619.29 59 61 61 58 65 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:33 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:34 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:35 1619.29 59 61 61 59 66 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:36 1619.29 59 62 61 58 66 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:37 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:38 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:39 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:40 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:41 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:42 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:43 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:44 1619.29 59 61 62 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:45 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.6
9/12/2009 12:42:46 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:47 1619.29 59 61 61 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:48 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:49 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.9
9/12/2009 12:42:50 1619.29 60 61 61 59 66 1.5
9/12/2009 12:42:51 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:52 1619.29 60 61 61 59 66 1.7
9/12/2009 12:42:53 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 1.4
9/12/2009 12:42:54 1619.29 60 61 62 58 66 1.9
9/12/2009 12:42:55 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 2.8
9/12/2009 12:42:56 1619.29 60 61 62 59 66 5.4
9/12/2009 12:42:57 1619.29 60 61 61 58 66 4.9
9/12/2009 12:42:58 1619.29 60 61 61 59 66 4.1
9/12/2009 12:42:59 1619.29 60 62 63 59 66 4.1
9/12/2009 12:43:00 1619.29 61 61 62 59 66 6.6
9/12/2009 12:43:01 1619.29 61 62 62 59 66 7.4
9/12/2009 12:43:02 1619.29 61 62 62 59 66 4
9/12/2009 12:43:03 1619.29 61 62 62 59 66 4.7
9/12/2009 12:43:04 1619.29 61 61 62 58 66 5.4
9/12/2009 12:43:05 1619.29 60 62 62 60 67 3.4
9/12/2009 12:43:06 1619.29 60 61 62 59 67 6.5
9/12/2009 12:43:07 1619.29 61 61 63 59 67 9.8
9/12/2009 12:43:08 1619.29 60 61 63 58 67 5.7
9/12/2009 12:43:09 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 10
9/12/2009 12:43:10 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 6.6
9/12/2009 12:43:11 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 2.1
9/12/2009 12:43:12 1619.29 60 62 63 59 67 5.6
9/12/2009 12:43:13 1619.29 61 62 63 59 67 10.2
9/12/2009 12:43:14 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 7.7
9/12/2009 12:43:15 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 8.6
9/12/2009 12:43:16 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 1.2
9/12/2009 12:43:17 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 2
9/12/2009 12:43:18 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:19 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 1.4
9/12/2009 12:43:20 1619.29 60 61 62 59 67 0.8
9/12/2009 12:43:21 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 1.2
9/12/2009 12:43:22 1619.29 61 62 62 58 67 0.7
9/12/2009 12:43:23 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 0.9
9/12/2009 12:43:24 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 1
9/12/2009 12:43:25 1619.29 60 61 62 59 67 0.8
9/12/2009 12:43:26 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 0.7
9/12/2009 12:43:27 1619.29 61 62 63 59 67 8.2
9/12/2009 12:43:28 1619.29 61 62 63 59 67 5.1
9/12/2009 12:43:29 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 8.4
9/12/2009 12:43:30 1619.29 60 62 62 60 67 2
9/12/2009 12:43:31 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:32 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 1.7
9/12/2009 12:43:34 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 2.1
9/12/2009 12:43:35 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 1.9
9/12/2009 12:43:36 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 1.7
9/12/2009 12:43:37 1619.29 61 62 62 59 67 2.1
9/12/2009 12:43:38 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:39 1619.29 61 62 62 60 67 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:40 1619.29 61 62 62 60 67 2.5
9/12/2009 12:43:41 1619.29 60 62 62 59 67 1.7
9/12/2009 12:43:42 1619.29 57 58 59 56 67 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:43 1619.29 36 37 38 34 62 1.7
9/12/2009 12:43:44 1619.29 35 34 37 31 52 7.9
9/12/2009 12:43:45 1619.29 33 34 35 30 47 2
9/12/2009 12:43:46 1619.29 33 33 34 30 44 1.9
9/12/2009 12:43:47 1619.29 32 33 34 30 42 2
9/12/2009 12:43:48 1619.29 32 33 34 29 41 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:49 1619.29 32 33 34 30 40 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:50 1619.29 33 34 34 30 39 1.9
9/12/2009 12:43:51 1619.29 33 34 35 30 39 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:52 1619.29 33 34 35 30 39 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:53 1619.29 33 35 35 30 39 2.1
9/12/2009 12:43:54 1619.29 33 35 35 30 39 1.8
9/12/2009 12:43:55 1619.29 34 35 35 31 38 1.7
9/12/2009 12:43:56 1619.29 34 35 36 31 38 2.1
9/12/2009 12:43:57 1619.29 34 35 35 31 38 1.7
9/12/2009 12:43:58 1619.29 34 36 36 32 39 2
9/12/2009 12:43:59 1619.29 35 36 37 32 39 3.7
Extremely nice review, pretty impressive TIM.
I was a little skeptical when Masska posted up about this on OCF, but it looks pretty impressive.
Might have to give it a shot :)
I'm currently trying out the MX-3 on the rig, and to be honest it's good, but I also expected better from the claims.
Had been using MX-2 for a long time now myself.
:toast:
Got mine today, but it may be a few weeks before I can use it. I have some other stuff coming that I need to test out and this is just too expensive for me to rip it off after just a week. Hopefully I can keep myself from giving into temptation.
hey mate, skepticism is good:yepp: but in this case I'm happy that you've come arround:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by MongGrel
let us know how it goes for you:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
Hmmm...just used up one out of four of my Indigo Xtreme mounts...it was a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: to mount in my water loop since all of my hoses are cut right down to size so there is not much movement possible anywhere and stripping the whole thing down was not a possibility. I had to mount it without removing the CPU so I cleaned as good as I could with everything still in there...there was no residue on the cloth or the wipe by the end anywhere, nor on the IHS or the waterblock.
Anyway, mixed opinions so far since my idle temperatures at 4.55GHz seem 3C - 4C higher than with the TIM I was using before. However, since I do not have an air conditioned room and the ambient temps vary all the time I am not sure if this is just related to ambient being higher since it is mid-day now. I will have to check it early in the morning when I know what the actual temps are around the comp area. How do you tell anyway if the mount is successful? :confused: I mean my temps are not in the 80s or anything at idle, around ~50C now at 4.55GHz with HT on and 4.33GHz Uncore, 1.505V idle, 1.446V load. Wouldn't it be all or nothing with this ETI...as in like if the mount is bad then transfer is plain going to suck no matter what... :confused:
Few other observations/comments...
1. Doing the re-flow with a beefy chipset block like the EK full cover on my Classified in series with the CPU block is perfectly safe. I monitored the MOSFET temps using Everest while loading all of the cores/logical cores at stock speeds using Prime95 blend and even after 3-4 minutes the temperatures of the MOSFETs did not exceed 48C even though the pumps were both off. I do not assume that the NB is any different but the Classified cannot report NB temps in an OS, at least for now so...
2. I am of a strong belief that the computer needs to be ideally horizontal on all horizontal planes if you really want to get a good mount. Use of some kind of tool to determine if the board is ideally horizontal is probably recommended.
3. I'm not sure whether the metal mass of the ETI will damage or warp the bottom of the HK block. Copper is very soft and the metal portion before re-flow is a bulge that presses into the copper quite hard once the block is tightened properly. I would not be surprised if it does deform the copper or that this would also apply for pretty much any other block or heatsink made of softer metals. I guess we will find out once the block is removed...if it does deform the copper then I guess once you go Indigo you stay Indigo :shrug:
4. If the pumps stop running while the computer is vertical the ETI is done for though hopefully the actual metal cannot leak onto other components of the board. This is just a speculation so if somebody wants to verify it feel free :D
5. Really meant for one-time builds. People who take their systems apart often would likely not find this very practical. Cost and installation complexity (particularly with internalized water cooled systems) are kind of prohibitive.
Overall, seems a decent product but I definitely need to do more testing. Hard when each of these costs $9 per mount lol :p:
i have a question about the whole turning the pump off to burn it in. wouldnt it be easier and a little safer just to overvolt the cpu a bit, run the pump at its lowest possible voltage then run occt? to me that seems less scary :)
The water cant be moving at all. The goal is to have IHS/waterblock interface temp at >70C for reflow to occur (inidigo melts according to their site at 70C, I would thought a little higher, but just read it). With water cooling/flowing a gradient higher than 30C will exist from core to IHS/waterblock, so even if core temp = 100C, indigo wont reflow. So pump has to be off, so gradient from core to IHS/waterblock is small enough to allow high enough temp.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomferrari
Same reason you should not get reflow while loading your cpu to 100C, as long as you are cooling cpu.
I'll simplify it a bit...Quote:
Originally Posted by rge
Any water moving through the system will cause the interface surfaces to cool and will prevent the re-flow from completing successfully. Therefore, in order to prevent the interface surfaces from cooling you stop the water flowing...
Yeah, I have to admit I totally neglected to think about systems with other blocks in the loop when I said that this was an easy install. In a single block loop or on air, it really isn't hard at all. With multiple blocks, you do need to be careful...add in the perfectly routed tubing that a lot of folks have and it gets even more complicated :(Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh
Glad to see it went well for you, will be great to hear what load temps you get when you have a known/constant ambient :)
AFAIK, the ETI style is an all or nothing thing...the amount and placement of TIM is perfectly consistent, there's no (noticeable) shades of gray in success it seems. Minute differences in placement and such will give minute differences in performance, but the blue lines are pretty good guides.
1) Good to hear the MOSFETs and IOH survived that well...did you use much airflow or were the blocks good enough on their own?
2) Horizontal is a must, if someone wants to use a level, that just makes it Xtreme :cool:
3) The alloy IX uses is softer than copper...way softer I think. I did three mounts on the GTZ and there were no ill effects at all, the base was perfect after them.
4) Yeah, that's a genuine concern....I'd hope that the plastic frame would be cool enough to resolidify the molten TIM before it dripped off. Though when overclocked, it's more than likely that the system will shut-off from instability at high temperatures long before the alloy can melt.
5) It's definitely for one-time builds for watercoolers and aircoolers. I'm still curious how it'll do with LN2, where a single session is $20-$50 already and a few degrees (on AMD) or better control (on Intel) is potentially worth it. (though verdict is still out if it works at extreme cold temperatures...hopefully there will be some conclusive evidence soon ;)).
That won't work (fortunately and unfortunately)....you need the base of the cooler and the IHS to exceed 70C. Even with a tiny amount of flow (like .1GPM), you'll be hard pressed to hit 45C. It's just easier (and less painless) to just stop flow and go to stock CPU speeds/volts :)Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomferrari
EDIT: beaten by a couple people :p:
1. The EK-FB EVGA X58 Classified block was good on its own. There was only very minimal airflow around, so minimal that it could not have made a difference really. You should have seen me sweating when I hit the Ok button on the Blend Torture Test before I saw that the temps pretty much did not move. :p: Definitely a properly mounted block with a bit of copper mass to it will do fine to protect the components from burning out during the re-flow process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
2. Yeah, next mount is with a level but that will wait until I complete my move in about 2 weeks :cool:
3. Good to know. Will verify personally in the near future.
4. The main issue is that the processor itself has thermal throttling which on stock settings or stable overclocks may not cause a crash or a shutdown and a pump stopping while the system is upright is the equivalent of doing a re-flow vertically. Down goes all of the liquefied metal. It would be nice to know how long it takes for the alloy to cool under room temperature. Either way though unless something captures it you will either get drips or solidified droplets all over the place and probably a short or two.
5. I'm thinking to email the manufacturer and absolutely confirm 3, ask about 4, and see what is the maximum low temperature before the allow will crack.
Before the instructions were finalized (or in the form they're in now, I suppose they'll always be changing as they learn more about the enthusiast community and all the complications it brings)....I tried reflow overclocked and overvolted. Unplugged the pump and instant lock-up. Tried again at stock speeds and overvolted, therm-trip kicked in about 3 seconds (~125C...what it does when even throttling won't work) and rebooted the system. In an overclocked system with a pump failure, I really wouldn't worry about the TIM melting again...you'll have incredible instability or hit thermtrip before it gets a chance to melt and drip. Down at stock speeds though, that's another story.
As for how it does subzero, I've been talking to Enerdyne about it and they're curious about it as well...that's how I know it'll be tested really cold soon enough :p:
Just out of curiosity, when you say you tried it overclocked and overvolted what kind of overclock are we talking about here...there are a lot of individuals that run very moderate overclocks in the range of 3.4GHz to 3.8GHz and these will often run on stock settings so "stock" behavior will generally apply which could cause the alloy to go liquid...I've just emailed Enerdyne with a few questions so we'll see what they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
I'm not personally particularly worried about it. This is more a curiosity thing than anything based on some thoughts I had while testing my first mount :)
Edit: Another detail I just thought of...if my memory serves me well the R2E from Asus has the ability to disable thermal limits permanently on the CPU and I think some individuals use this setting for god knows what reason. Anyway, you see where I'm going with this...if they have thermal throttling disabled they may burn their chips when installing this ETI. Not really an Enerdyne problem per say but maybe worth mentioning in the instructions for them. I'm not 100% sure on this ability of R2E since I am not longer in the possession of the board but I am 99% sure it had that ability.
My test settings....so 4.2ghz, HT on, more voltage than necessary :p:
I guess a moderate OC will do it as well....though stock is easily the most dangerous of all the settings, IMO (hardest to hit thermtrip).
Plenty of boards can disable PROCHOT throttling, but I would be very surprised if the higher temperature thermal trip (auto power down at ~125C) could be disabled. I had always figured that was an innate and unadjustable feature of the CPU, but I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh
Testing reasons aside, I never understood why people turn off cpu thermal monitor/prochot in bios either since it has nothing to do with overclocking.
On GB board, disabling bidirectional prochot and cpu thermal monitor, throttling no longer occured at 100C, but thermatrip still worked on E8400, E7200, and E8600 the multiple times I tried it (around 122C on my E8400). (Trying to figure out tjmax in realtemp thread 1-2yrs ago by measuring core with thermocouple via drilled hole in IHS, etc verses core temp software reading, was not just randomly torturing my cpus:p:).
Never damaged any running it to thermatrip, except the E7200 trying to read bare core temp with IR after removing the IHS and melted/smoked, before thermatrip kicked in.
Edit: I run realtemp always and with cpu alarm/shutdown at 85C, and gpu alarm/shutdown computer at 75C. Not a bad idea to have some shutdown program anyways to avoid all pump failure issues, but I would like to see what happens if you reflow while vertical...though not worried about it happening.
Well, I think I have some answers direct from Chris and Enerdyne...but first my questions for Enerdyne...Quote:
Originally Posted by rge
1. How do you differentiate a successful re-flow from an unsuccessful
one? Would the ETI behave as all or nothing or are there gradients of
performance depending on the re-flow success assuming the installation
was done properly otherwise?
2. How critical is that the socket be ideally horizontal on all plains?
3. How hard is the alloy used in IX in its solid state in reference to
copper or aluminum? Basically, me and a few other people testing this
were wondering whether there is any chance that the solid metal alloy
could deform the copper base of some water blocks when they are
tightened down during preparation for re-flow.
4. If IX is used in a water-cooled system and the pump(s) stop(s) to
function while the system is upright thermal throttling may prevent the
system form crashing but cause the temperature between the IHS and water
block to rise to a point where the alloy would become liquefied. If
this happens would the alloy drip downward at this point or drip out and
then cool to form tiny metal droplets that could short components? How
conductive is the alloy (i.e., could it short components)? Finally, how
long does it take to solidify at room temperature?
5. What is the freezing/cracking temperature of the metal alloy used in
IX. I am particularly curious what would happen if this ETI was used in
a Phase, SS, or LN2 cooled system.
And now the answers from Enerdyne...
1. If installation deviated from the Guide and temperature profiles were not
observed/followed, you may have varying degrees of reflow (analog: from zero
to complete reflow) and therefore performance differences.
2. We have not quantified this yet; typical desk/tabletop/lab bench is ok.
3. The alloy is far softer and Al or Cu (it is softer than tin); Brinell
hardness: IX alloy is ~1/10 to 1/20 the hardness of a typical Al alloy or
Cu.
4. If IX has already reflowed (in the horizontal position), solidified and
placed in the vertical position, the high surface energies of the lid and
block surface will prevent material migration (while liquid); this all
assumes you actually reach reflow again; additionally, any excess alloy on
the PET-based IX frame may be trapped and quenched immediately as it is no
longer thermally connected to the CPU. The alloy is conductive, similar to
solder.
5. IX includes a significant qty of Indium which cold flows (compliant) even
at cryogenic temperatures; we have arranged for a LN2 reviewer to test IX
(AM3); we are curious as well :)
There you go...now we know a bit more :D
Thanks for info, dejanh.
The variable performance response is interesting, the 2 things I did differently ....below is a pic of the level I told you I used on cpu socket, got it at home depot back when hanging a tv on wall, that and I used calipers so all 4 screws on HK were 18.8 mm (supposed to be 19.6 but I had uselessly lapped mine, not .8mm, but just what I used). I was just trying to make sure the reflow was thin and uniform, especially after vapor made point of saying make sure horizontal.
You can see even my desktop is not exactly level, but my cpu socket was during reflow.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9974/leveln.jpg
So I got mine this morning, and installed it. The process took me almost an hour and was very nerve wracking, I must of heated up the room by a good 5 degrees. Re-flow has to be one of the scariest things ever, all settings on default and let it boot up, hardcore throttling until it started to set. Temps dropped (not as much as I was expecting) then climbed back up to 92*C, plugged in fans and let it cool off. Thus far my temperatures are no lower than they were before, they're about the same if not a little hotter. But as I said I warmed up my room with all my nervousness during installation. When it gets cooler I'll know for sure if its better or worse right now I cant say.
Follow up.
Fried VID card....:( RMA denied
Something i saw from removing 1st attempt.
Temp variation on core 1 and 3 were due to a thick layer that deposited in the screw holes of HK3.0....must have seeped in then solidified during re-flow.
2nd go at IX
What I learned from first attempt is leveling is very very important, and pressure on the mounting is as important.
I backed off a bit on the pressure, seems to allow for better re-flow.
Did everything as per guide, successful this time around, though core 3 runs 5C hotter idle and 5C cooler at peak. :shrug:
Overall drop in temp is a whopping 10C from IC7.
One oddity during the re-flow, I used prime stress test to load the cores.
During the process cores 1,2,4, all hit 99~102 C during peak, and throttling kicked in. However core 3 never went past 92C, so not sure if the re-flow process was messed up directly over that core ? I find it odd that during idle core 3 runs 5C hotter 37C vs 31C-32C for the other cores, but under load, it never tops 56C while other cores hit 60~63.
Its impressive stuff.
whats the best paste out of these three?
MX-2
MX-3
OCZ freeze
wrong place to be asking!Quote:
Originally Posted by malik22
here is a review of tims
Those reviews are old now i.e. March 2008, MX-3 isnt included as well as Coollaboratory Liquid Metal Pro.
just for info guys on the IE I work for a large disti in the UK and have contacted them about Distributing the product in the UK and europe so hopefully we can help out getting this product out to the UK and European users :)
I will let you know how it goes and if they accept where you can expect to get the product :)
Cheers
Ulti
Could you please do a mini update with the new matrix tim by arctic silver & tim-consultants available from PTS ?
Yeah, I'm working on a part 2 of TIM testing and saw that as well at a few places, so I'm definitely considering it. My gut says "it must be good" because it's the first new consumer TIM from Arctic Silver in quite some time, so it's probably worth it to pick up a couple tubes with my next PTS order :)
The main difference from part 1 to part 2 is that I'm planning on doing this series of tests on an AMD CPU (965BE). I know I'll be testing Indigo Xtreme, X23-7783D, MX-2 (or MX-3, I don't know if I'm going to do both), Arctic Silver Lumiere, and probably 2-3 others (I'm open to suggestions, this AS Matrix looks like a good one).
Alright, yeah, double post...but I want input for my next batch of testing :)
For my 2nd batch of TIM tests, I've decided I want to test 6 TIMs (scheduling reasons), and here are the givens: Indigo Xtreme, X23-7783D, MX-#, and Arctic Silver Lumiere. If I include AS Matrix, MX-2 and MX-3, that pushes it to six. I would prefer not to test AS5, Ceramique, or IC Diamond again (especially the latter). I'm really asking for suggestions here more than anything.
Here's my thought process though: Indigo Xtreme for AMD I already have here and is waiting to be tested, so that's a given. X23-7783D was the best paste last time, so I think it should automatically be passed on to Round 2 to see if it gets dethroned. MX-2 is a mainstay in this community and I think it's a solid reference point for A LOT of readers. I don't think I gave a fair shake to MX-3 last time (seeing as I learned to use it as testing progressed--never a good thing), but I'm not sure how much I want to test it again...it's obvious it beats MX-2 but won't catch X23-7783D (from what I've seen). I need to test Lumiere before my next batch of CPU block tests (if all goes right with Lumiere, it will improve my block tests on many levels).
If there is exceptional cause, I will push it to 7 TIMs (I'll basically make Lumiere its own test vs. MX-2), but from the look of what's available on P-PCs/FCPU/PTS/Sidewinder/Newegg/etc, I'm not seeing anything that jumps out at me. AS Matrix is sounding better and better (since it's new, it'll be fun to test--and Arctic Silver hasn't delivered a new consumer TIM in years), but I'd like to hear thoughts of others :)
EDIT: I'm considering dropping MX-3 and testing something assumed to be bad, like a thermal pad or something like that. We have no idea how it performs...nor do we really have perspective on the darkside of TIM performance.
I'm curious about AS Matrix, particularly because of this statement about the new product..Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
"Matrix’s silicone suspension fluid and conductive fillers are engineered for easy application and superior surface wetting. This enhances performance in moderate bond line applications and offers better performance than other Arctic Silver retail market thermal compounds in large bond line situations."
Sounds to me like this TIM is designed for liberal application but at the same time this does not say much for small applications such as when doing the rice-grain method...
Edit: Having a baseline TIM such as a thermal pad is not a bad idea. Then we can really rank performance.
Yes, it would be good to see a test on the new AS Matrix. One problem I can foresee is getting accurate results, as according to their website it takes 300 hours to cure :(
Quot from AS Matrix website:
it will take a minimum of 300 hours and multiple thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity
Wow! Never heard about this stuff! Trying to get it!
Alright, so I decided to drop Lumiere from the roundup and make it a separate entity, so that opens up space for one more I guess.
Indigo Xtreme
X23-7783D
MX-2
AS Matrix
Open slot #1
Open slot #2
I won't do the Coollaboratory stuff (I like my blocks too much and need them to be untainted for future testing with them). I don't want to do IC Diamond again (my CPU has been polished enough, thank you).
I'm ordering a Luna Rev.A from Newegg for my WB testing, so I figured I might as well try a couple from there?
Wildcard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835200052 (Rosewill, silver paint basically)
Baseline: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835230029 (most generic paste I can find anywhere)
EDIT: or I can do Gelid-Extreme or whatever
Thats a nice idea, Vapor :up:
ok I understand about Coolab and your hesitation to use it, good performer but it is an absolute pain in the ass to clean off.
are you still going to use thermal pads for this test and if so which ones?
I have some Phobya pads I can send you if you like. :up:
looking forward to round 2:yepp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
Regarding the Coollaboratory stuff, I considered using it for round 1...did a single trial mount with it before real testing started and took me almost 2 hours to clean off my block :shakes:
I've used it for 24/7 on a GPU and I like its performance, but for something like this where I need the blocks to not change (ever), it's not viable. :(
I've gone from a pad to the generic paste--I think it's a more useful baseline since there are so many variations of pads these days (but generic silicone TIM is pretty ubiquitous).
Still searching for something to fill the sixth slot :) Debating between a wildcard like the Rosewill or something like the Gelid-Extreme that is doing well in other reviews.
I think go with Gelid, it is getting some good figures and would be good to include in this round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
Sounds great Vapor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
Gelid-Extreme isn't really ground moving.
How about IC Diamond 7 ? Zalman ZM-STG2 ? Feser TIM ?
IC Diamond I already tested and I think, in as few words as possible, it's snake oil.
STG2 I can't find, but I was curious about it as well. I kind of wish it were in the same format as STG1 (i.e., a brush applicator) as I've never used it, but alas I can't find it stateside.
H-Bridge sounds interesting, especially when you consider this is likely the exact same stuff, just at half the price (the 9.24W/m-k has to be more than a coincidence).
That said, I've already ordered the Gelid GC3/Extreme...I haven't seen a review where it didn't give a boost over everything else, so should be interesting :)
I can get you ZM-STG2 if you like.
If your not in a big hurry I will order some from here and send it to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
Edit: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...1&limitstart=1 :shocked:
My usage of the term snake oil: "The expression is also applied metaphorically to any product with exaggerated marketing, but questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit."Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathWalking
Probably a bit harsh, but I really see little quantifiable advantage to IC Diamond over other TIMs I tested (let alone the massive selection of TIM worldwide, as shown by that 80 TIM review [as an aside, that would take me 200 days to complete with 0 minutes of break and 0 power outages, not an undertaking I ever want to do, that's for sure :eek:]).
I couldn't remotely verify their temperature claims...and their rebuttal of "not enough pressure" is misguided misdirection. A bowed block and a slightly convex IHS (as 95%+ of LGA1366 IHSs are) is the surest way to get high pressure between the two surfaces (and still not break Intel spec for overall pressure on the socket/pins/board). If the scenario is that it doesn't do well on two convex surfaces, then it doesn't do well for the majority of people in this section and, in turn, the community I do my testing for.
It's performance was marginally better than MX-2, a significantly less expensive and more readily available TIM that's easier to use and doesn't polish your CPU.
Their "better than ________ by 3.65C" marketing is the biggest flaw in their product, IMO. If that weren't there, I'd have less disdain for their product (but if it weren't there, the product would have likely never existed with such a presence in the market and I'd have never tested it). The marketing claim is based on data that are incredibly imprecise...they're using data points that have no temperature logging, probably no ambient measurement (let alone cooler-intake temperatures), no scientific method and from very subjective sources.
Take this scenario: most of their data are from crunchers. Crunchers, by and large, have their systems loading the CPU 24/7. When they power down for an hour, their ambients go down noticeably (especially in their PC's case, which many use), then they power up with ICD with cooler room and case temperatures and a "I hope I see the same 3-4C gain others did and I hope this was worth my time" mentality in their head. They load up their CPU with BOINC (which has WUs with variable loads on the CPU) and observe for a few minutes and report back. The number of flaws the process of data collection basically makes it useless.
My testing and data are not perfect, but it's as good as I know how to get it without spending 10s of thousands of dollars. My methodology is totally automated too--I boot up, hit 3 buttons on the screen (one to log into windows, the next to start OCCT and the next to start logging with my temp probes), and come back 12 hours later with my data done. From there, I put the files on my NAS and load them on my laptop when I enter Excel and run two macros to import the data. All the data processing is completely automated, even the graphing is almost completely automated. The next frontier for me is to acquire a ASTM D5470 testbed or access to a lab that can do it (both of which are way out of my budget, lol).
And in that vein, they DID have ASTM D5470 testing done with it and that data lines up almost perfectly with my data.
Basically, their marketing claims are footing my disdain for the product. The product itself, in my testing, is acceptable and performs adequately, but that's about it :shrug:
I'm testing out a few different TIMs myself (AS:5, MX-2, Ceramique & ICD7) and ICD7 hasn't gotten me excited yet, that's for sure. I will be doing more tests, but to start, I wanted to see what each one did immediately after installation at idle and loaded for 1/2 hour (with the exception of MX-2, which was already on the CPU for about two weeks).
Here are those initial results, all normalized to 24c ambient (per Vapor, whom I trust over pretty much anyone for this type of thing, ambient:cores on i7 are 1:1). The CPU is an i7 860, overclocked to 3.8GHz w/ HT on at 1.305 Vcore loaded, cooled as part of this loop: MCP-355 w/ XSPC Res Top -> Swiftech MCR-320 -> D-Tek Fuzion v.2 -> Swiftech MCW-60. The load is being applied by Prime95 using Small FFTs.
http://www.myalbumbank.com/albums/us...Idle_Graph.jpg
http://www.myalbumbank.com/albums/us...hest_Graph.jpg
http://www.myalbumbank.com/albums/us...0min_Graph.jpg
Because of that MX-2 anomaly, I'm going to be giving the three others at least 24hours to get some curing completed (IIRC, Vapor's review saw the biggest drops after an hour on AS:5 and a pretty steady drop for ~12 hours on ICD7). If results are not remotely in line with others' testing, I'll try multiple mounts of the anomalous ones. I do think the MX-2 application had to be almost perfect to show such a drastic drop.
Anyway...I'll be posting more detailed results whenever I have time to get done with the further testing, complete with all screenshots showing the data above and all subsequent data.
So far, it seems like Vapor is on to something with the above post. I'm sitting here loading ICD7 right now and after over 48 hours, it is still at least 1/2 degree worse than MX-2. I will be giving it another application to make sure it is properly applied.
Vapor, why you haven't included the OCZ freez ?
OCZ Freeze = MX-2 / MX-3 depending on version. At least I'm 99% sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamndar
NO!! :shocked: Really, I've never knew that!Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
dont even say that, i have high hopes for mx-2, and freeze is :banana::banana::banana::banana:.
Hmm, did you have issues with the freeze ? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropluszero
If that's the case, strange AC lists it in their graphic showing how much better MX-3 is to everything else:Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJoY
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/catalo...rt_MX-3(1).gif
:shrug:
And from what I've been reading and hearing the reeze is better than AS5 but not on that graph !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketzer7
Freeze isn't MX-2 or MX-3...but I didn't really consider it for three reasons: I have to limit my tests to only six TIMs; it's slowly fading out of the stateside market (only FCPU and Newegg carry it now, from what I can tell); its late-in-life reviews haven't been impressive (reviews that use poor test procedures often have unrealistically good results for the newest/feature product being tested).
If I'm going to do a 7th TIM, it will be TIM Consultants 0098, which AS Matrix is based on. The testing will be to determine performance differences, if any.
issues in the sense that i dont like its consistancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamndar
i'm looking for a TIM that's a paste, and not a clay.
examples being as5 is a paste, and mx-3 is a clay.
i dont have any mx-2 at the moment, but im holding out hope that its a paste.
Guys. I used MX2 for a long time. And I got MX3 last week. My temps dropped by 1 degree.
@Vapor:
You can try Nanoxia Heatbuster TIM.
Never heard of it...Googled it and the first result is your post in this thread :wth:Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDcomer
Brand new stuff?
EDIT: if you're talking about TF-1000, it's a clone of Coollaboratory Liquid Pro and I won't test it due to its interaction with copper.
Yes, he is talking about TF-1000...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
http://www.nanoxia-europe.com/index....-compound.html
...however, their site says that it is safe for use with Copper but not Aluminium. :confused:
Here's the stuff:
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4...2723421.th.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3...2723431.th.jpg
EDIT:
The Packing is the Same like the TF1000 the Text on the Backside of the Packing is from the TF1000 Series.
The Heatbuster Compound Paste is an extra designed Paste for universal use. This Paste can be used on
every Material, Copper, Nickel, Aluminium, Gold or Silver.
The Heatbuster is the Leading Thermal compound Paste based on Metall Oxyd Material. The Aluminium-Zinc Oxyd is
mixed with Nano-Aluminium Particle and make it possible the reach that great Performance on 10,4 W/mk.
It's 'safe' in that it doesn't dissolve copper (it does with aluminum), but it does embed itself into copper, thus permanently changing the block (something I cannot and will not do to my testing equipment).Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh
Interesting that's available for sale somewhere but there's no sign of it via Google (one post on PCGH says it has over a 10w/mK thermal conductivity rating). Google failed! :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDcomer
Anyway, because I'm already at my limit of 6 TIMs and because Heat Buster is basically non-existent via my retail channels, I'm not going to add it to this test.
I believe AS Matrix is based on the Matrix II tim from TIM Consultants from what David told me about the tim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
This is the specs listed there.
Quantum Thermal Grease
* Achieves a <1 mil bondline. Ideal for Cu and/or polished heat sinks.
* Silicone Backbone, Aluminum, Aluminum Oxide, Zinc Oxide filler
* Performs 44% better than the 0098 / Matrix Formulation
* Very reliable - will maintain functionality under extreme conditions
source
http://www.tim-consultants.com/matrix2.html
Maybe they reused the packaging from TF-1000, but Heat Buster just got 10x more interesting if it's a gallium paste! That would solve one of the big deficiencies of TF-1000 (it's nickel/tin-phobic and is really hard to apply/spread on the IHS). I'm genuinely intrigued now...gotta keep my eyes peeled for it here stateside the next month (testing is slated to happen late November and early December).Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDcomer
Interesting! Is David a TC or AS guy? Anyway, TIM Consultant's stuff his highly vaunted and AS has a grab on the retail market like no one else, so it's great to see them working together :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ar3s
David is a TC guy.
If I get around to it I might try to order some from across the pond...if I do I may pick up 2 tubes or so and then I can let you know if you want it for a review. No guarantees, just saying if it happens :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
just installed this
verdict against MX3,TX3,GC-1
Overall MX3 beats TX3,GC-1 for idle -1C and load -1C
Indigo Extreme Idle = MX3
load -6C.
Ambient Temp 32C
tested all under same conditions.
simply awesome
also one note
dont waste time using core burn in.. not hot enough actually
just do this
install smart guardian, real temp 3.3 and prime95 64bit
on water took around 1 min for reflow... actually might have been 45sec i think.
do not real temp polling is way slower than smart guardian on charts.
thats the issue for real temp so its used only as to see the max 100C
and when u connect the pump back for the reflow to solidify
-7C compared to MX3 on 4.4ghz load.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...Untitled-2.png
just confirming,
you ran all the TIM's mentioned for how long?
and you overall results were 1 or 2 degrees on idle and 6 to 7 degrees on load in IX favour, is that correct?
your temps bellow I assume are IX, and what are your idle temps on the 920?
Nice results and clock btw :up:
GC1 around 2 months different board DFIQuote:
Originally Posted by masska
MX3 around 1 month
TX3 around 1 month
Idle is at 38C -41C. according to real temp and evga bios is 26-28.
btw idle temp i would say they are all the same. dont think there was a difference. dont really pay much attention to this other than in the bios.
btw ambient temp here is around 32C.
i fully endorse this product.
it freaking works.
any possibility of reviewing arctic silver matrix? its been out for a bit and no one seems to have reviewed it anywhere. im wondering if AC could at least do better than the AC 5
matrix II has been put on hold for the moment so i am guessing matrix is the older tim consultant's grease.
Great write up!
I'm inclined to give this a whirl, but from reading the review and comments I have a worry:
When the reflow process is done and the whole thing is settled, powering back up your water loop.. wouldn't running a high load that makes cores reach 90 degrees start the reflow process once more? It seems a bit 'dangerous' when my mobo is vertically during normal operation. I'm sorta weary of unwanted reflows whenever I run stability tests during OC that may push cores to a 90+ degrees.
once initial reflow is achieved, that is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicBox
The ETI only processes (reflows) the one time and once this process is complete it is set and will not resort or react again. :up:
No, it would not re-flow again (see my next comment).Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicBox
You are right that it will not re-flow again, but your reason is wrong. Vapor and myself already brought this up as questions way earlier and the reason that it will not re-flow is that the surface to surface temperature between the chip and the block/heat-sink is much lower than say 90C which happens to be the core temperature. If however your pumps fail in a water-cooled system, then the surfaces could heat up and cause the alloy to liquefy again. This won't cause the alloy to drip though as the extremely thin layer of alloy will be held in place by very high surface tensions between the block and the chip. Furthermore, if there was the slightest chance of anything dripping the plastic shield that remains in place will contain any and all alloy that may "overflow" in a situation like this since the alloy re-solidifies extremely quickly at room temperature.Quote:
Originally Posted by masska
That's the real reason :up:
Believe me, Indigo Xtreme is one of the neatest products to be available to the mainstream market that I have gotten in a long time. I'm a huge advocate for it now. Every one of my builds uses it, even my water-cooled HTPC build I am doing right now ;)
I didn't give a reason dejanh, however thank you for elaborating :up:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh
Hi Vapor, I want to say this review is straight to the point and informative. Some reviews include irrelivant data but I thought this one was spot on. Describing what it needed to and leaving out the obvious stuff.
If I may give just one friendly critique.
Could you describe your temperature control measures a little more? I'm interested to learn a little more about the testing environment so that I can better understand the test results.
Thanks for sharing your findings! :up:
I've just installed Indigo Extreme and couldn't be happier. Won't use a different kind of TIM again.
Welcome to the club :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CedricFP
A heads up regarding Indigo Extreme.
If you lap both CPU and your heatsink / waterblock, make sure not to mount it too tightly before you re-flow.
I lapped both. Couldn't do the re-flow using the first set, so had to remove it and throw it away. Carefully applied the second one, same thing.
Good I was smart enough to loosen the screws of my Megashadow. It finally managed to re-flow properly, thank God.
Congratulations Vapor on yet another outstanding effort.
Looking forward to the next lot of testing from you. :up:
Zalbard, would I be right in thinking that.Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
You feel the first 2x attempts failed due to having to much pressure on both the CPU and WC block, there by having less pressure on them, this helped the re-flow process?
I have just swapped mx2 for mx3 and can see only 1C. May be I need some more time?
Well, the fact that you actually got a 1C temp difference more likely has something to do with the remounting. Because when you look at this image, you'll notice the temp difference between mx2 and mx3 is less than 1C.
http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/TIM/IXS...Supplement.png
The things are getting better, guys!
I used MX-2 without remounting for a half of year. Then I had remounted MX2 2 weeks ago and had the same temps. (Room temp is the same).
And right now I used MX3 and have 2C better temps! Tarrific! Cores temp under 1 hour Linpack running became 2C less already!
I`m looking forward what temps be in several more hours! (MX-3 is MUCH MORE viscous than MX-2, maybe MX-3 need more time)
Correct, yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by kgtiger
I guess there was no space between the lapped CPU heat spreader and the lapped heatsink's base so it didn't actually have any space to "flow" to.
26 hours of Prime95 64bit...and i can see the result: MX-3 does a better job than MX-2, 2C ! Great result!
Bump... any update on reviewing the AS Matrix Thixotropic stuff?
I just got the Indigo Xtreme today. This stuff is just awesome, about 6ºC better than IC Diamond on load on air on a overclocked I7 running Linx(76ºC max vs 82ºC). And it wasn't a bad mount, I did it two times with IC Diamond and the temperatures were about the same.
On a sidenote, I couldn't use a program designed for stress testing for the initial reflow, first I turned the computer with the fans on(a delta that generates 150CFM and two Thermaltake Smart Fan II, 78CFM each) and the temperature was already at 85ºC, after I started prime95 test the computer turned off about 5 seconds later. Then I decided to compress a file using 7-zip, the heat generated was pretty similar on all cores, and it quickly rose to near 100ºC, after it dropped to around 91º I used prime95, which also stayed on the 100ºC mark until it start to drop and it stopped at 82ºC.
Then I shut down the PC and let it slowly cool, I think it's better than turn on the fans/the pump.
good info, thanks for sharing :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerBR
I am ordering some today to test with my new Corsair H50 and to go along with this, 2 1850 RPM Gentle typhoon. Can we say 7-8C drop across the board!;) I hope so.