Yes and YES :)Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
Now this is what was needed to get me ready to jump at any time.
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Yes and YES :)Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
Now this is what was needed to get me ready to jump at any time.
Woah! nice prices indeed!:):cool:
And no Debbie Downer posts guys... aaa they are NOT out...:rolleyes:
U.S. price haven't moved yet, wonder how much of a price drop we will see in the States.
Im really hoping for an 80GB X-25m for $250
If an Intel SSD of any NAND process drops below $200 I'm getting one.
If it even drops 50-75 bucks that will be a for sure grab.Quote:
Originally Posted by YMAA
True, at $250 it will be a sweet deal, even for the current models.
Not listed in the UK yet...
it they really are 25-30% cheaper than current gen drives then they'll end up at 200-250$ usd retail for the 80GB Gen2 model
I am wondering though, Crucial has been known to show very fast degredation in memory chips when used with voltages that other brands could do just fine. Crucial also had a smaller nm process at the time which makes sense since you just cant push the same ammount of volts into a smaller process and have everything be fine. SO what I am wondering is with these new 34nm NAND chips that use the same controllers, is the controller going to give them the same ammount of voltage as before and the new SSDs might die prematurely? I realise that SSDs take very little voltage, but still...
^ AFAIK the drives will have a completely new controller for the very reasons you mention.
Looks like Lambda Tek has them listed now. £150+ VAT for 80GB = 40% less than the current model.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
Link
Looks like the official release date is next Tuesday.
Link
Wow Intel just dropped a serious fbomb on Indilinx.Quote:
Originally Posted by audienceofone
HOLY CRAP! If thats the case DAMN!! 2x 80Gigs sounds extremely tempting now... maybe even 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by audienceofone
Anyone know when these will be hitting shelves stateside?
O___o
wow if there close to $200 i might get 2 possibly
So wonder what it will be at more well known places.Quote:
Originally Posted by pingpong1455
Sweet. Can't wait to see how many of the older ones end up in the "For Sale" section with cheap price tags. :D I need a second one.
Question is.... how much better is the G2 versions over the G1?Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
Supposed to be a 10-15% boost in performance, so it should drive down all SSD prices.
If that is all it adds, then I'll have no problems keeping mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
Would of hoped for more performance boost, but still some is better than non to one that doesn't own one yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
The big news is lower pricing. You can only queeze out so much performance on a single SATA connection before moving to RAID at which point the perfomance increase comes from the RAID array more than the individual drives.
According to the thread in the news section, the new drives should be available in mass on 7/21/09 (next tuesday). I'm really curious to see what official prices/specs are going to be. :D
Well someone already posted showing a place with the new 80Gb at $245:
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.p...er=10068600248
Looks like MSRP will be $265. I am more interested to see what happens to the pricing of the current versions since I already have one and would love to pick up a second one for RAID.
that link is to a waterblock :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
:ROTF::rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender17
Lets try that again. ;)
Prices on the X25-M 80Gb have started to drop:
http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0309018
Since I do not feel like looking through 6 pages of people bickering at each other - can somebody point me to the specs of those new Intel drives? Still haven't seen them (faster write, I hope?)
nice now if they dip below $200 id be sold for 2 :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
No specs yet. Probably the same specs just cheaper pricing. This is better IMO because it will make more people pick up SSDs and push the technology faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcool
Amazing. I literally looked at Microcenters prices last night and they were sitting @ $350 for the same drive. I feel really bad for the poor guy who picked one up anytime in the last couple days from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
They can actually just get a price adjustment if they got it from MC. However if you bought one from say Newegg or ZipZoomFly, then you will be SOL.
Ah, I see, thanks. I'll probably wait for the Indilinx to drop and buy a few 120's then (I need the write speeds).Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
NewEgg ALWAYS gives me updated pricing refunds. I've done it like 6-8 times - sometimes close to $100 on a monitor one time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
So far I've seen several places saying that new drives (Postville) will have 90 mb/sec sequential write speed.
Will be looking for 160gb version for the desktop. Hopefully firmware will support TRIM on release, especially now, when Windows 7 RTM was singed off already.
well prices out today at least somebody find places to buy em ?
http://en.inpai.com.cn/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=6590
wonder how fast vertex will drop in price ????
might have to upgrade my work laptop to a 80 gigger
Retail pricing starts showing up, but I'd wait for newegg. $100 cheaper than gen1? Hell's yeah!
Quote:
Intel is announcing a new generation of Solid State Drives (SSDs) using 34nm NAND flash memory from IM Flash Technologies
, its joint venture with chipmaker Micron Technologies. IMFT had previously announced production of 34nm NAND flash in November of last year, but various problems had led to a delay in the scale of mass production that Intel needed.
The most important thing that Intel will be able to do with the new SSDs is lower their prices in order to spur consumer purchasing. Intel says the new drives are so much cheaper because of "the reduced die size and advanced engineering design" of the new SSDs. Many consumers have been waiting patiently for prices to drop and the market to stabilize before jumping in with a purchase, despite dramatically improved performance.
NAND flash built on the 32nm process by Samsung and Toshiba, along with a much improved JMF612 controller from JMicron, are expected to lead to lower prices on competing SSDs from other manufacturers.
“Our goal was to not only be first to achieve 34nm NAND flash memory lithography, but to do so with the same or better performance than our 50nm version,” said Randy Wilhelm, Intel's Vice President and General Manager of the NAND Solutions Group.
“We made quite an impact with our breakthrough SSDs last year, and by delivering the same or even better performance with today’s new products, our customers, both consumers and manufacturers, can now enjoy them at a fraction of the cost.”
This improved performance is not shown in the X-25's sustained sequential write speed, which can only achieve up to 70 MBps. Instead read latency is now 65 microseconds and write latency is just 85 µs. That compares to read and write seek times of 4.2 ms and 4.7 ms, or 4200 µs and 4700 µs.
The X-25 has a maximum sustained sequential read speed of up to 250 MBps, unchanged from its predecessor. There aren't any apparent major changes to Intel's flash controller, which still uses the same 10 lane Parallel Channel Architecture with ONFI 1.0 compatible flash.
Support for Windows 7 and the TRIM command, which improves performance when deleting files, will be available later in a firmware update. There will also be an end user tool which will help users to optimize the performance of their SSDs on the Windows XP and Windows Vista operating systems.
Interestingly, Intel will continue to use the X25-M moniker in 80GB and 160GB sizes. However, new SKUs are starting to appear with the 34nm 80GB (SSDSA2MH080G2C1)and 160GB (SSDSA2MH160G2C1) models. A 320GB model is expected to arrive later, but has not yet been announced. The X18-M, which comes in a 1.8 inch form factor, will begin shipping with 34nm parts later this quarter.
Intel originally introduced the 80GB X25-M for $595 less than a year ago. Now, the new 34nm 80GB X25-M will sell for $225 to the channel for quantities up to 1,000 units. The 160GB version will be available at $440 to the channel at the same quantities, down from a remarkable $945 at its launch in December.
Zipzoomfly has it listed but not in stock
$229.99 http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=10010790
$433.99 http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=10010793
Old drive still listed for $349.99
ZZF is a little more expensive then newegg on these so really curious what newegg has for a price.
Anandtech has a nice article on the new specs.
Link it next time ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGmA1987
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3605
wow no E version with 34nm yet. F*** Intel, definitely going elsewhere for a high end solution now. Crossing fingers for ioxtreme to be good and perhaps RAIDable if it scales.
Less impressive than I originally thought they'd be (no OFNI 2.1 spec'd flash, no change in speed, same controller) but the price drop is great news.
The only question now is what this will do to the used 50nm X25M prices.
According to anandtech's article, there is a new controller.Quote:
Originally Posted by boostdfd3s
As far as pricing, you would think the prices should fall below that of the newer ones. After all, NO support for Trim :down:
NO TRIM support for first gen X-25M SSDs. I'm glad I bought my Vertex's!
Those intel early adopters are out of luck!
I will be ordering a 2G intel 80GB for my 2nd box to replace my Raptors.
No trim for 50 NM disks? That's F**ked up. If there is a utility that works like the Vertex trim tool it doesn't matter all that much though. The OCZ trim utility is scheduled to run on my system every morning at 2 AM.
@ real world the noticeable diff between gen1 and gen2 is the lower latency much more than the 2x/2.5x iops.. its not like gen1 lacks iopsQuote:
Originally Posted by deathman20
and damn! when x25e 34nm ?? my upgrade plans got screwed once again
If you read Anands article: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3605Quote:
Originally Posted by saint-francis
"TRIM Support: Not For 50nm Drives
Part of today’s announcement is the fact that Intel will enable TRIM on these 34nm drives when Windows 7 ships. Intel is planning on releasing a user downloadable firmware update that will enable TRIM support. Windows Vista and XP users will get a performance enhancement tool that presumably will just manually invoke the TRIM command. I suspect that Intel is waiting until Windows 7 to enable TRIM support is to make sure that everything is thoroughly tested. As we’ve seen with other attempts to enable TRIM, it’s a tricky thing to do.
The disappointing part of the announcement is that there’s no TRIM support for the first gen 50nm drives. As far as I can tell, this isn’t a technical limitation of the drives, but rather something Intel is choosing to enable only on the 34nm products."
This trim tool is most likely just for 34nm drives, as it will need firmware to work. So Intel is giving no candy at all for the Gen1 owners it seems... Intel may have good products, but when they want to sell new stuff, they surely are one of the worst companies to own stuff from....
^ just read that article. 2 - 2.5x more 4KB random write IOPS than the old drives!
okay so question time $500 or so to spend on at least 2 ssds do i go with the new intels when they come to newegg or somthing different like vertex's
my hd setup will be so you have an idea
4x640gb wd cavier blacks raid 5
2 ssds either in 0 or 1
on evga classified southbridge
The new Intel is a MUCH MUCH better buy than the Vertex unless you absolutely must have the sequential write speeds (i.e. you do video editing all day long).Quote:
Originally Posted by pingpong1455
Oh and:
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
Well, if they take those 2-2.5x from those 3300IOPS as 50nm numbers, some might get a bit dissapointed, since those IOPS numbers are way off..... Time will tell.....Quote:
Originally Posted by audienceofone
^^alrighty then i gues 2 new 80gb intel drives will be in my basket once newegg gets them
only problem convincing the mother hahaha >_<
+1 I'd grab two of the new 80GBers n be done (and this is coming from a Vertex supporter and owner.) I love the Vertex's, they have been nothing but flawless, fast and solid for me and they do support TRIM. However, the cost of the new intels (after the price-gouge subsides) is a very good thing. Also, the access times and 4k random writes are unbelievable on the new drives.Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
Yeh I quite agree. Not sure I would go Intel again. Think I might wait to see what the competition has to offer, with 55mb/s 4k writes why do I need any more? 150mb/s would be more useful in my opinion!Quote:
Originally Posted by saint-francis
A lot of people will be very pissed off about the TRIM business that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys
Yep! especially when there isn't any reasonable justification, and it's not like people didn't pay a premium for the drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
Thinks I will either wait and get an IOxtreme when it's bootable or see what sata 3 ssd's can deliver as they should be just around the corner also.
Guys, IMO there will NOT be any crazy jumps in terms of SATA SSD performance for a little while. The limits of NAND CHIPS are starting to show so it is not all about the controller anymore. It is under 30MB/s per chip. Factor in that the scaling can not possibly be perfect due to the way data is distributed between chips, wear leveling, controller overheads, and you can see that our current speeds are already quite high. They need to increase the # of chips for more speed (like IOXtreme does) however doing that hurts latency + it is more expensive to produce. I don't even know if significantly faster chips are possible. Flash based technology is NOT limitless.
I am sure Christmas Triming will come for the 50nm chips.... just not at the same time as the 34nm drives,
I have heard that they use the same controller.. time will tell but I can't see intel shafting us... it's not in their best interests to do this.
Hope your right!Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
Me too Rhys
If not, we can always bring our pitchforks and burning torches to Intel Solid State Drives Community Forum, which also might be a good place to post about TRIM related queries and other related firmware for the 50 and 34nm drives?
Hopefully bring the attention to Intel that a USERBASE would LIKE supporting ;)
I agree completely on the Christmas Trimming assumption you made.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
The beginning hint of "firesale pricing" for the old X25-M was seeing the 160GB on buy-it-now for $500 with free priority mail shipping a week ago on EBAY. It even seemed like the current X25-M was being phased out, and then another boatload of them that INTEL forgot about pulled into port somewhere! :)
The current EBAY price of the X25-M 160GB is aroung $570 right now, so the "secondary market" has already shown price discount, with Newegg trying to hang on and sell every last one that arrives. With Newegg, both sizes (especially the 160GB) have gone in and out of stock for a few weeks now.
I would have to know that the version #1 X25-M's would be flashable to support TRIM, as the new versions are!
If the old version can not be flashed, I am going for the second generation, especially since I have been waiting for them.
Also, online (and retail) stores are just going to switch over and delete the old SKU when the last version one goes out of the warehouse. You might see two SKU's on Newegg for the old/new version of the same size X25-M for a day or less, and then the only remaining stock will be on places like EBAY and your internet vendors of less repute! :)
Do we have any guestimate of pricing for the new 160GB?
$440 (160GB) , quantities up to 1000
That's about a 28% price reduction from today's pre-introduction 160GB Generation #1 drive. Not bad, since it is only likely to get cheaper for awhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by da_struch
I will get 160GB Generation #2 drives at that price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
I hardly think Intel cares about the Gen#1 owners when they are pimping new products... Anandtech's article leaves no questionmark at all for TRIM on 50nm, it will not come period.. This even if they have more or less suggested that this will come, and have no tecnical boundries, just plain sucky salespolitics.. So, time to stop being nice and let them have it: http://communities.intel.com/thread/5059?tstart=0Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys
Tired of getting shafted by idiots, time to strike back:up:
Yes it sucks if no TRIM support is going to be provided for 50nm drives, but it's worth noting that the benifit of TRIM for Intel drives is not going to have the same impact that it will have for other drives. Hopefully it does not de-value the drives too much cos I plan to sell them anyway and trade them in for the new drives.
There is a good summary here on TRIM.
I can't seem to post a reply on that forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ourasi
This is why OCZ support is soooo much better, even if they can't do anything you can let Tony know if your Pi**ed off! and he can pass it on if enough people agree. Has Intel even responded about anyone's concerns yet?
I think I will be DEFINITELY be voting with my feet next round as I don't like getting Sh*t on.
A CM shot:
http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=
Seems to be the same as Gen 1.
How can you say that? 4k reads is over twice as fast, and 4k writes is almost five times as fast!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Hertz
spotted on newegg yet ???????
The chipset they are using to compare is garbage so the comparison shot is garbage. It is only a CM shot, which is pretty pointless, but it is something.Quote:
Originally Posted by zoob
spotted another place http://www.pugetsystems.com/store/?c...rive&que=34+nm
I've managed to post on the Intel forum, if any of you have a free moment some input from you guys on their forum would be welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys
I'm not condoning an attack of their forum by flaming trolls or the rampage of an angry mob with pitchforks and burning torches at Intel's HQ...just a polite expression of your concerns on their forum re: TRIM and firmware updates.
Please...
John
You guys are going nutty in this thread- Spouting out all sorts of crap.
Does everyone forget about OCZ's first gen SSD? I'm pretty sure tons of people were pissed off about them, and where are those drives now? exactly where they started- not a single firmware update or even a drive capable of OS usage. So I call bull on OCZ being SOOOOO much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys
Why are you guys harping so hard about dang TRIM. I've been running X25-M's for months and I don't envy TRIM support at all. You guys are making a huge deal out of a small issue, at least for the X25-M. Did anyone actually hear Intel state that there WOULDN'T be TRIM support for first gen X25-M's or are we all just listening to what Anand is assuming.
As far as I can see, Intel is lowering the price for all you haters here to get your hands on a better performing SSD for less than current models. I'm pretty sure that's why everyone is in a love fest with OCZ, even though they put out poorer performing products (pre-vertex), people loved them because they were causing SSD prices to drop. Why all the hate- Yeah, Intel should support first gen drives and release TRIM support, but it's not like they stated that they aren't going to, as far as I know. Only Anand has stated that (not knocking him, but he didn't exactly back it up with any statement from Intel directly).
Let's all take a chill pill and actually see what Intel does first before making it seem like they killed your first-born.
And one last thing... Napalm, what the heck man, you quoted a forum Poll with only 16 votes as backup for your incorrect claim. I thought you were better than that- :confused:
http://smiliesftw.com/x/hsughwerdv7.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Griff805
Hell I don't even run the wiper on the system that I have a Vertex installed on.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3607&p=1
Another article from anandtech. As you can see on here it does use a different/upgraded controller with more Ram even. All I can say the 4k random reads/writes are amazing!
This is PCPer's "perspective" on the whole TRIM issue:
"There has been some buzz / rumors about the older X25's not receiving a TRIM-enabled firmware. With the 8820 firmware performing so consistently even after being heavily fragmented, there is not as much of a need for TRIM support. The G1 drives will only benefit slightly in cases where the drive had been completely written (i.e. full) in the past and was then dropped back to a relatively small amount of content. In that case, the difference seen would only be in random write IOPS. Keep in mind that a G1 X25-M in this worst case condition still dominates the competition in random write IOPS. "
The only thing Intel have sh*t on is the competition :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys
Data sheets/ benchmarks are now on Intel's site here
Grif, please let me start by saying, you HAVE always been FOS!Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff805
Apparently J-micron had already got the most out of the controller that they could. But thats the point you CAN ask OCZ and you actually get an answer or an explanation, so YES OCZ support is MUCH better!
x25-m doesn't slow down so doesn't need TRIM? WTF people on this forum thought my drive was faulty when I showed a few benchmarks in an (admittedly) particularly used state!
Also If your not a Dullard you can actually notice the slight slowdowns even from 'normal' use.
Edit: And I bet it will be because of people kicking-off if Intel does provide TRIM for gen1, because why would they if people like you were happy to be given 2nd rate service.
Looks like your another person that Intel would have to steal your wife and kill you dog before you could ever say anything bad about them.
Perhaps you could crawl out of Intels ARSE and say something constructive.Quote:
Originally Posted by audienceofone
Not meaning to flame bait but the controllers are different.
This is the X-25M Gen1 Controller
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3738/x25mgen1.jpg
This is the X-25M Gen2 Controller
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4403/x25mgen2.jpg
I am not saying the Gen1 controller would not be able to do TRIM...BUT it MIGHT (this is theoretical guesswork) have a bug in it which prevents it from doing so effectively... we need some sort of clarification from Intel on this..
John
I wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by pingpong1455
Yeah, I could care less about TRIM, to be honest. The Vertexes all have Garbage Collection that works very, very well now, not to mention a firmware version is inbound that further increases the GC's efficiency and speed. No real need for TRIM, but I suppose it's nice to have TRIM support.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Sounds like you need/would rather have a support group to share your feelings and thoughts with rather than a company that produces a good product... :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys
So you're saying if OCZ stole your wife, it'd be okay because you could get an "answer or explanation". That does make it so much better!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhys
what could any company with jmicron drives do other than a full refund? Nothing. There are no fixes for garbage.
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerlad
As an OCZ customer and Vertex owner, I love my current SSDs, but I'm in agreement. I also run a couple first gen X25-M's in my boxes at work and love 'em. Anyway, Intel is just a different caliber of company that would never let a product, like JMicron, roll out the door. It would never happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerlad
Not saying they've never made mistakes (they have), but their bar is much higher than most smaller companies bars are. Intel is intel. 'nuff said.
That said, I'll be pickin' up a new intel drive for my 2nd box at home.
Lol! that's it Griff, deliberately missing the point as always. ( I think it's deliberate at least)Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff805
Let me rephrase, there are allot of people that have concerns regarding their SSD's lack of future TRIM support, and no one 'actually' knows if they are getting screwed or not because it seems Intel can't be bothered to inform their loyal customers.
Perhaps you would care to miss that point again and continue to bang the J-micron drum.
Again missing the point!, I was actually referring to your lack of ability to accept criticism directed at Intel, and that it is YOU that seems to take these criticism's personally. Perhaps YOU need to attend a support group! (Good luck if you choose Intels)Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff805
http://www.incompetech.com/Images/caring.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy
(limit 1 per customer) ROFL.Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcelon
$259 CAD @ newegg.ca. Not to shabby :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcelon
I just purchased 2 80's, they better send both..
Not too shabby indeed, i purchased the previous x25-m for $290 when they had it on sale there... good thing i sold it for $275 last week :)Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
I really wanna see how the new jmicron controller will compete before i buy another ssd, but im not keeping my hopes up.
YES ! ! ! finally hale lu ya :DQuote:
Originally Posted by eXcelon
just 2 things
1.do i get 2 80gb ones and leave it at that for total ssds or do i get 1 160gb and another later like next year marchish
2. i need to get me a prepaid credit card so i can buy my wonderful computer things so i dont have to use my parents credit . . . . .darn milk price :(